Re: Amy/Taking the Plunge
Gary & Lisa Williams
Hi all~
How do you respond to family members?
Now that the holidays are here and we get to spend time with "well-meaning"
relatives who have no clue as to what I am "doing" with my kids, what do you
tell them when they grill you on "school". I don't have ONE relation who is
interested in what we really do. Don't any of you think that others would
be interested in discussing with you unschooling or just the fact that you
live your life a little differently? My family, in general, don't really
want to hear what we do, they just want to make sure I'm not "ruining those
children". I get questions like, "what kind of schedule do you follow?" or
"how do you know what books to use?" or "how will they ever have any
friends?" or "how do you know how much they are learning if you don't have
to test them?" I used to answer in a schoolish mode because that is all
they understand. But I don't want to do that anymore and especially since
these questions usually come up in front of my kids. I want to say we don't
"DO school and we use ALL books...and TV...and Playstation...and boy, you
should see our arts and crafts stuff!" I would also like to be able to
respond in a way that would get them curious or at least be able to talk
more positively in front of my kids. Some of their remarks make my 11 year
old daughter feel like something is wrong with her (or her mom!!)
Sorry this got so long...I really look forward to your comments and ways in
which you respond to your relatives, Lisa
In a message dated 11/5/03 8:25:28 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I still tell the school oh yeah he is reading and doing math just to
shut them up - >>
Sandra reponds:
Why are you dealing with a school? I'd try to get away from that if you can.
How do you respond to family members?
Now that the holidays are here and we get to spend time with "well-meaning"
relatives who have no clue as to what I am "doing" with my kids, what do you
tell them when they grill you on "school". I don't have ONE relation who is
interested in what we really do. Don't any of you think that others would
be interested in discussing with you unschooling or just the fact that you
live your life a little differently? My family, in general, don't really
want to hear what we do, they just want to make sure I'm not "ruining those
children". I get questions like, "what kind of schedule do you follow?" or
"how do you know what books to use?" or "how will they ever have any
friends?" or "how do you know how much they are learning if you don't have
to test them?" I used to answer in a schoolish mode because that is all
they understand. But I don't want to do that anymore and especially since
these questions usually come up in front of my kids. I want to say we don't
"DO school and we use ALL books...and TV...and Playstation...and boy, you
should see our arts and crafts stuff!" I would also like to be able to
respond in a way that would get them curious or at least be able to talk
more positively in front of my kids. Some of their remarks make my 11 year
old daughter feel like something is wrong with her (or her mom!!)
Sorry this got so long...I really look forward to your comments and ways in
which you respond to your relatives, Lisa
In a message dated 11/5/03 8:25:28 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I still tell the school oh yeah he is reading and doing math just to
shut them up - >>
Sandra reponds:
Why are you dealing with a school? I'd try to get away from that if you can.
storyteller
We used to get that - if fil doesn't have a report card to crow over and
then grandly hand out a dollar, he's lost. When they used to ask, I'd
bore them to tears with what the kids are doing -which is exactly the
*last* thing they want to hear. lol. so they no longer ask. The other
day I got asked if we were sending our 13 yo to a private high school -
she assumed we were, said in a tone of voice as in "of course you're
not going to homeschool high school!?" I said no of course she's not
going to a private high school - where ever did you get that idea? end
of discussion. If they're not really interested in what the kids are
doing, go on about that endlessly and they'll learn real quick not to
ask. I refuse to justify what we're doing. Glad to discuss, but I refuse
to be interrogated or to have to satisfy someone who wrongly thinks they
have the right to judge what we're doing.
Fortunately for the kids, the other grandmother is totally interested in
what they do, and is always talking to them, asking questions, and is
genuinely interested, which makes up for a lot. Recently we visited some
old family friends that the kids didn't know very well. My mother's
friend showed more interest in my oldest's acting than her grandparents
ever have. She was in tears, that someone could be that nice to her, and
show such an interest. I realized that she thinks her cold grandparents
are normal, and her nana, who lives far away but is very interested is
kind of unusual. It was then that I finally realized how much her nearby
grandparents have hurt her with their disinterest in what she does.
Makes me both sad and furious.
Believe in what you're doing and let that show, and put your kids first.
Wish I had stood up more firmly to the in-laws years ago.
good luck,
susan
then grandly hand out a dollar, he's lost. When they used to ask, I'd
bore them to tears with what the kids are doing -which is exactly the
*last* thing they want to hear. lol. so they no longer ask. The other
day I got asked if we were sending our 13 yo to a private high school -
she assumed we were, said in a tone of voice as in "of course you're
not going to homeschool high school!?" I said no of course she's not
going to a private high school - where ever did you get that idea? end
of discussion. If they're not really interested in what the kids are
doing, go on about that endlessly and they'll learn real quick not to
ask. I refuse to justify what we're doing. Glad to discuss, but I refuse
to be interrogated or to have to satisfy someone who wrongly thinks they
have the right to judge what we're doing.
Fortunately for the kids, the other grandmother is totally interested in
what they do, and is always talking to them, asking questions, and is
genuinely interested, which makes up for a lot. Recently we visited some
old family friends that the kids didn't know very well. My mother's
friend showed more interest in my oldest's acting than her grandparents
ever have. She was in tears, that someone could be that nice to her, and
show such an interest. I realized that she thinks her cold grandparents
are normal, and her nana, who lives far away but is very interested is
kind of unusual. It was then that I finally realized how much her nearby
grandparents have hurt her with their disinterest in what she does.
Makes me both sad and furious.
Believe in what you're doing and let that show, and put your kids first.
Wish I had stood up more firmly to the in-laws years ago.
good luck,
susan
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 08:09 AM, Gary & Lisa Williams wrote:
> Hi all~
> How do you respond to family members?
> Now that the holidays are here and we get to spend time with
> "well-meaning"
> relatives who have no clue as to what I am "doing" with my kids, what
> do you
> tell them when they grill you on "school". I don't have ONE relation
> who is
> interested in what we really do. Don't any of you think that others
> would
> be interested in discussing with you unschooling or just the fact that
> you
> live your life a little differently? My family, in general, don't
> really
> want to hear what we do, they just want to make sure I'm not "ruining
> those
> children". I get questions like, "what kind of schedule do you
> follow?" or
> "how do you know what books to use?" or "how will they ever have any
> friends?" or "how do you know how much they are learning if you don't
> have
> to test them?" I used to answer in a schoolish mode because that is
> all
> they understand. But I don't want to do that anymore and especially
> since
> these questions usually come up in front of my kids. I want to say we
> don't
> "DO school and we use ALL books...and TV...and Playstation...and boy,
> you
> should see our arts and crafts stuff!" I would also like to be able to
> respond in a way that would get them curious or at least be able to talk
> more positively in front of my kids. Some of their remarks make my 11
> year
> old daughter feel like something is wrong with her (or her mom!!)
> Sorry this got so long...I really look forward to your comments and
> ways in
> which you respond to your relatives, Lisa
>
> In a message dated 11/5/03 8:25:28 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
> << I still tell the school oh yeah he is reading and doing math just to
> shut them up - >>
>
> Sandra reponds:
> Why are you dealing with a school? I'd try to get away from that if you
> can.
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and
leave a trail.
~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>I want to say we don'tLOL! I like that answer!
>"DO school and we use ALL books...and TV...and Playstation...and boy, you
>should see our arts and crafts stuff!"
When my MIL innocently asked "How do you know they are learning what other
kids are?" I answered "Who cares!" before I'd even realized.
I would highlight the fact that only having two or three kids to worry about
lets you use different strategies than you do in a class room. That you are
with them all the time and use all the things in life to teach them, not
just textbooks and specific times of day. That you may not cover the same
things that school kids do, but that school kids won't come close to the
breadth that you WILL cover.
Kelly
(practicing for the holidays herself!)
Fetteroll
on 11/6/03 8:09 AM, Gary & Lisa Williams at glmnw@... wrote:
family in a cult you'd heard scary things about? Her happiness and
confidence might give you the impression she's still rational, but why would
she be making such irrational, scary and "obviously" wrong decisions?
How much would you be interested in what she was doing with the cult? If you
already knew it was bad, wouldn't anything she said sound like brainwashing?
On the other hand, how much would you be interested in hearing comforting
words that she was coming to her senses and thinking straight again?
They're fishing for those comforting words because they're scared.
Everything they're certain of about what kids need -- and society confirms
it for them -- you're apparently oblivious to.
I liked Susan's answer about blitzing them with what the kids are doing. :-)
That way you aren't allowing yourself to take a defensive position and
proving you're right. You just blaze on ahead with full knowledge that you
are right :-)
Another tactic is to give them inforamtion to read and say you'll be glad to
discuss it when they're done reading.
Joyce
> I don't have ONE relation who isWhat if one of your children grew up, had a family and started involving her
> interested in what we really do. Don't any of you think that others would
> be interested in discussing with you unschooling or just the fact that you
> live your life a little differently?
family in a cult you'd heard scary things about? Her happiness and
confidence might give you the impression she's still rational, but why would
she be making such irrational, scary and "obviously" wrong decisions?
How much would you be interested in what she was doing with the cult? If you
already knew it was bad, wouldn't anything she said sound like brainwashing?
On the other hand, how much would you be interested in hearing comforting
words that she was coming to her senses and thinking straight again?
They're fishing for those comforting words because they're scared.
Everything they're certain of about what kids need -- and society confirms
it for them -- you're apparently oblivious to.
I liked Susan's answer about blitzing them with what the kids are doing. :-)
That way you aren't allowing yourself to take a defensive position and
proving you're right. You just blaze on ahead with full knowledge that you
are right :-)
Another tactic is to give them inforamtion to read and say you'll be glad to
discuss it when they're done reading.
Joyce
Penn Acres
Joyce wrote "Another tactic is to give them information to read and say you'll be glad to discuss it when they're done reading.
LIke ummm....we could do up like you know a tract? and umm we could ummmm illustrate it..you know .... with these neat cartoon drawings about how evil public school is and uh..hand it out at Halloween? ;0) lol...
grace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LIke ummm....we could do up like you know a tract? and umm we could ummmm illustrate it..you know .... with these neat cartoon drawings about how evil public school is and uh..hand it out at Halloween? ;0) lol...
grace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> My family, in general, don't reallyThe schools ruin a lot of kids.
>want to hear what we do, they just want to make sure I'm not "ruining those
>children".
> I get questions like, "what kind of schedule do you follow?" orThe ones that interest the kids. Those are the ones they'll remember.
>"how do you know what books to use?"
School is an exercise in short-term memory.
>or "how will they ever have anySame as anyone else. Get interested in things, and you'll meet other people
>friends?"
who are interested in those things.
>or "how do you know how much they are learning if you don't haveHow did they know that their kids were learning to walk or talk?
>to test them?"
Observation and listening. Tests were invented to help teachers with large
classes know what they had learned.
Beyond that, you can only talk about the neat stuff you and your kids are
doing and hope they'll get it. If not, "Here are some books and articles
you can read. When you've read them we can talk about homeschooling."
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/6/03 6:19:00 AM, glmnw@... writes:
<< I don't have ONE relation who is
interested in what we really do. >>
If they're e-mail readers, you could write it all up in advance and say so
that you don't have to explain the whole thing over and over when you all get
together, here' what you're doing "this year" (you could add maybe) about
homeschooling.
They can read it and think what they want, and then you don't have to see the
thought process pass through their eyes and onto you. They can process it
in private.
If they don't do e-mail, maybe take a little flyer. HA!!
Sandra
<< I don't have ONE relation who is
interested in what we really do. >>
If they're e-mail readers, you could write it all up in advance and say so
that you don't have to explain the whole thing over and over when you all get
together, here' what you're doing "this year" (you could add maybe) about
homeschooling.
They can read it and think what they want, and then you don't have to see the
thought process pass through their eyes and onto you. They can process it
in private.
If they don't do e-mail, maybe take a little flyer. HA!!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/6/03 8:27:49 AM, mina@... writes:
<< When my MIL innocently asked "How do you know they are learning what other
kids are?" I answered "Who cares!" before I'd even realized. >>
Once my MIL asked about testing and I said we weren't going to test them.
She asked how we would know if they weren't behind. I said quickly, "I know
they ARE behind in some areas, and they're ahead in some." So are the kids at
school, I reminded her. She hushed.
Sandra
<< When my MIL innocently asked "How do you know they are learning what other
kids are?" I answered "Who cares!" before I'd even realized. >>
Once my MIL asked about testing and I said we weren't going to test them.
She asked how we would know if they weren't behind. I said quickly, "I know
they ARE behind in some areas, and they're ahead in some." So are the kids at
school, I reminded her. She hushed.
Sandra
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> How do you respond to family members?There are lots of great responses on this list. The biggest thing that I
can add is that you mentally and psychologically prepare yourself to be
yelled at and/or completely "disowned". Be as nice as you can be, but stand
up for yourself and your children and don't let family members and friends
coerce you into doing things that aren't good for your children. The
decision of taking your children out of school is a big one and you'll
probably get some big responses.
You've already educated yourself. Come up with a few memorized responses
that you can say without having to think them through while emotions are
flying around. Maybe even print out a list of books, articles, websites,
etc. that you'd love for the whole family to read. Keep it short though, or
it'll probably be ignored completely. Good luck!
-Lisa in AZ
Elizabeth Roberts
nah...hand it out on the first day of school...and over school holidays
Penn Acres <pennacres@...> wrote:
Joyce wrote "Another tactic is to give them information to read and say you'll be glad to discuss it when they're done reading.
LIke ummm....we could do up like you know a tract? and umm we could ummmm illustrate it..you know .... with these neat cartoon drawings about how evil public school is and uh..hand it out at Halloween? ;0) lol...
grace
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Penn Acres <pennacres@...> wrote:
Joyce wrote "Another tactic is to give them information to read and say you'll be glad to discuss it when they're done reading.
LIke ummm....we could do up like you know a tract? and umm we could ummmm illustrate it..you know .... with these neat cartoon drawings about how evil public school is and uh..hand it out at Halloween? ;0) lol...
grace
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Scott Bieser
At 05:31 PM 11/6/2003, Elizabeth Roberts wrote:
anyone wants to make a serious stab at making homeschooling or un-schooling
tracts in the Chick style. My online gallery is included in my signature below.
And the best day to hand them to the kids would be on report card day. But
I think it would be wiser to pass them to parents at contentious school
board meetings.
--Scott Bieser
proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
http://www.libertyartworx.com
Buy stuff with my art on it!
http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>nah...hand it out on the first day of school...and over school holidaysYou know, I happen to have some of the skills need to pull this one off, if
>
>
>Penn Acres <pennacres@...> wrote:
>Joyce wrote "Another tactic is to give them information to read and say
>you'll be glad to discuss it when they're done reading.
>LIke ummm....we could do up like you know a tract? and umm we could
>ummmm illustrate it..you know .... with these neat cartoon drawings about
>how evil public school is and uh..hand it out at Halloween? ;0) lol...
>grace
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anyone wants to make a serious stab at making homeschooling or un-schooling
tracts in the Chick style. My online gallery is included in my signature below.
And the best day to hand them to the kids would be on report card day. But
I think it would be wiser to pass them to parents at contentious school
board meetings.
--Scott Bieser
proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
http://www.libertyartworx.com
Buy stuff with my art on it!
http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx
----------
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/6/2003 5:46:31 PM Central Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
who are interested in those things.
~~~
I went to see my mother in her casino hotel room in Tunica on Monday.
[imagine me speaking in a very annoyed tone of voice] She actually had the
nerve to say, TEN YEARS after we've started homeschooling, that Will needs some
friends! @@ I just said, incredulously and annoyedly, "Yeah, he doesn't have
any friends...that's why I put 50,000 miles on my car in the last year,
driving back and forth to Memphis." I literally waved my hand in her face as I
walked away, as if swatting away a gnat.
She shut right up.
Tuck, who knows how far she can go with her mother, but apparently her mother
doesn't know how far to go with her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
>or "how will they ever have anySame as anyone else. Get interested in things, and you'll meet other people
>friends?"
who are interested in those things.
~~~
I went to see my mother in her casino hotel room in Tunica on Monday.
[imagine me speaking in a very annoyed tone of voice] She actually had the
nerve to say, TEN YEARS after we've started homeschooling, that Will needs some
friends! @@ I just said, incredulously and annoyedly, "Yeah, he doesn't have
any friends...that's why I put 50,000 miles on my car in the last year,
driving back and forth to Memphis." I literally waved my hand in her face as I
walked away, as if swatting away a gnat.
She shut right up.
Tuck, who knows how far she can go with her mother, but apparently her mother
doesn't know how far to go with her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catherine aceto
My relatives ARE interested in what we actually do and trust that I am doing a good job, whatever I do, so I don't have that problem. SOOO -- you can disregard everything I say, but I have never heard a better idea that Sandra's idea that you give them a small statement and plenty of references for them to read if they wish to discuss it with you.
-Cat
-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary & Lisa Williams
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:09 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Amy/Taking the Plunge
Hi all~
How do you respond to family members?
Now that the holidays are here and we get to spend time with "well-meaning"
relatives who have no clue as to what I am "doing" with my kids, what do you
tell them when they grill you on "school". I don't have ONE relation who is
interested in what we really do. Don't any of you think that others would
be interested in discussing with you unschooling or just the fact that you
live your life a little differently? My family, in general, don't really
want to hear what we do, they just want to make sure I'm not "ruining those
children". I get questions like, "what kind of schedule do you follow?" or
"how do you know what books to use?" or "how will they ever have any
friends?" or "how do you know how much they are learning if you don't have
to test them?" I used to answer in a schoolish mode because that is all
they understand. But I don't want to do that anymore and especially since
these questions usually come up in front of my kids. I want to say we don't
"DO school and we use ALL books...and TV...and Playstation...and boy, you
should see our arts and crafts stuff!" I would also like to be able to
respond in a way that would get them curious or at least be able to talk
more positively in front of my kids. Some of their remarks make my 11 year
old daughter feel like something is wrong with her (or her mom!!)
Sorry this got so long...I really look forward to your comments and ways in
which you respond to your relatives, Lisa
In a message dated 11/5/03 8:25:28 AM, jcurtielectric@... writes:
<< I still tell the school oh yeah he is reading and doing math just to
shut them up - >>
Sandra reponds:
Why are you dealing with a school? I'd try to get away from that if you can.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I think it would be too, too cruel to hand out homeschooling tracts. It's
bad enough that kids find out this way or that that their parents DO have an
option. I'd rather leave them in relative peace instead of stir them up worse.
Sandra
bad enough that kids find out this way or that that their parents DO have an
option. I'd rather leave them in relative peace instead of stir them up worse.
Sandra
unolist
--- In [email protected], Gary & Lisa Williams
<glmnw@w...> wrote:
know how I handled the family members, once and for all? I sent them
this really long email. I got tired of the "concerns" and the veiled
insults, so I put it in writing (i do best writing and not with in-
person conflicts). I am browsing posts and saw this question about
responding to family members, so here it is. Everyone i know who has
email got copied. No one came back and questioned me, except one aunt
who asked what LOL means. And i did get some complimentary feedback.
I put it out there and how they feel about it at this point is their
problem. It's long, i tried not to be too offensive, and i when i say
I "use" the world book scope and sequence, all that means is i scan
it and say yep, yep, covered that, this would count for that, etc. No
forced curriculum. And it helps me organize my portfolio for year-end
assessment.
And an extra plug for no limits on tv, food, whatever the children
are feared to get carried away with. It works. Trust your instincts,
they work. Trust your children, they're brilliant.
And a little honesty here: I was getting way too consumed with this
group. I was starting to question, in a bad way, every little
decision or thing that happened. I began to second-guess everything I
did and look to the list "experts" for insight and approval. I
didn't trust myself completely to make own choices anymore. Really. I
was losing touch with my own instincts, instincts that serve me well
when I listen to them. So I took a break, and i am in a better place
now. I am more in-tune to my kids needs and what works for us without
second-guessing every thing we are doing. I was spending way too
much time online away from my kids and it was putting too many
criticizing voices in my head.
So thanks for the wisdom of people who share so much of their time, I
apologize that I can't spend more time here. I hope you understand. I
think that is a testimony, that you can learn so much here that you
can leave it behind with confidence that you can unschool
successfully. The legacy lives on in my daily life. I miss you guys,
hence my browsing here tonight. Maybe someday i will find the balance
to be active here again.
well, here it is for those interested in reading...(email me offlist
if you want to comment or slam me, i am on no mail on this list :0)
SUBJECT: For the Record
10/08/03
I wrote this to go with a picture of numbers that Ashlyn wrote. The
pic is a springboard to qualify my feelings on some issues about our
homeschooling. Stop reading now if you don't want to hear about it.
Or print and read it later so as not to stir you at an inconvenient
time. I don't think it's too provocative, but it's less accusing than
the ones I wrote in the past and never sent about our homeschooling
decision and defending some points, after feeling attacked and
insulted for so long. LOL!! (I have scanned the pic if you want it
emailed to you.)
I am copying this to everyone because when I am this excited about
something I can hardly contain it. I have kept a lot to myself out of
fear of backlash or frustrating misunderstanding. The "people"
referred to is not necessarily anyone in particular reading this, but
comes from many different experiences from many people, including
family, friends, and even strangers over the past few years. So no
finger pointing, but if you recognize yourself in here somewhere,
don't hesitate to ask me for clarification. Some of you may also be
reading this who have never openly questioned me, but you may have
unspoken questions or doubts. I hope this addresses it all.
Why do I feel the need to prove what we do works for us? Probably
because I don't get the overall impression that I get the benefit of
the doubt with this endeavor. So read it or not, groan, laugh, roll
your eyes, or heck, nod in agreement. You won't hurt my feelings. Or
change my mind :0) I am writing this just as much for me as for
anyone else. I'll be cheering myself on even if no one else feels
compelled to. LOL So here goes.......
I did not teach Ashlyn(4) how to write those numbers. She learned by
living daily life and being a curious kid. This is *the foundation of
my homeschooling philosophy*, that kids will learn without coercion
what they need to familiarize themselves with the world around them.
It doesn't mysteriously stop at some arbitrary age. Christian(2) can
count to ten and name colors the same way. No one ever decided they
needed to know these things and sat them down and taught them with a
program. Just like learning to walk and talk, it's like the air they
breathe.
Learning is everywhere, there is no magic formula for kids to be
filled with regimented instruction, they will seek it on their own as
long as their curiosity hasn't been stamped out by drilling and
forceful teaching and controlling and shaming for not performing.
Learning comes from desire and interest and is retained because it
has personal meaning. Memorizing facts at school to be sometimes
forgotten or discarded because they are not relevant or useful
personally is not the same. I say these things from experience of my
schooling, Megan's schooling, and others' experiences that have been
shared with me. YMMV-- Your Mileage May Vary.
My job in the capacity of homeschooling and parenting in general is
to provide a loving, rich, nurturing environment and lots of
guidance. Lots of exposure to important and interesting things about
our world and the past. Setting good examples for reading,
researching, and finding out new things everyday. Imparting a sense
of discovery and fascination about so many things about our existence
in this life. Paying a lot of attention and noticing when my kids
need something, or want to learn more about something without pushing
them into my own agenda. With my tendency to be dramatic about such
things, these goals are actually accomplished rather simply and
beautifully.
Megan(11) learns the same way as my younger two. And we are happy and
joyful living and learning this way and no one is going to change
that LOL. I am not saying these things to start a debate, I just
don't know that I've ever explained what we do and why quite this
way. I get regular evidence like this picture, or a conversation, or
many other clues and intimate knowledge and daily affirmation of how
and what my children learn. It's amazing. I am absolutely confident
in how this works. I have gotten defensive, not that I don't believe
in this valid decision, but that people don't have faith that I'm
intelligent enough to know what I'm doing with my kids. We
appreciate other peoples' concerns, but we find most fears to be
unfounded. Generally, they are false assumptions or lack of
information.
We absolutely know what we are doing. And we don't criticize or find
fault with other's decisions now or in the past on how to educate
their children. To each his own! Schools serve their own purpose and
meet the needs of some, but they are not the answer for every child
or family. We just wish more people would believe in us and not
openly criticize and look for deficits to dismiss our whole
lifestyle.
It took me a year and a half to make the decision to bring Megan
home, it wasn't something I did lightly. I tried everything I knew to
help her be successful in school, including some ganging up on her
with the school staff that I horribly regret. I researched and read
and deliberated, and I finally just went for it. I do not regret it
for one second, except for not doing it sooner. Believe that I am
doing what I think is in her best interest, no other reason. We are
doing this from love and trust, not fear. And we trust all of our
children to give them a choice to go to public school at anytime. I
am no martyr, but a lot of personal sacrifice goes into
homeschooling, it is not the path of least resistance. In other
words, I am not doing it to take the easy way out of school, just as
I don't think schooling parents are doing it likewise. Each have
their own demands and stresses, I have been down both roads. At the
same time, I don't find homeschooling too much to ask of myself, I
find it a worthy investment. My choices are based on my own findings
and experiences and values, not reflective of anyone else's choice.
As I've said all along, there are no guarantees. Going to school does
not guarantee a great education and a happy, successful life. Nor
does homeschooling. But Megan is learning that she can trust herself
and her curiosity, that she can do anything she sets her mind to,
that she can make her own decisions slowly with confidence and
support from me. She wasn't getting that in school, she was
getting "you don't know what you need, so for your own good, do as we
say, don't think for yourself. Do this or else." She was not learning
much, and she was becoming more withdrawn and defiant. Her spark was
gone. It is taking a long time for her to heal and blossom again, but
I have already seen enough to know we made the right decision.
People may never understand my perspective. There are some great
books that would help to understand, like the Unschooling Handbook by
Mary Griffith, the Homeschooling Book of Answers by Linda Dobson,
anything by John Holt or John Taylor Gatto. It seems no one who
debates with me wants to hear or understand or learn about the
mechanics of it, they just want to find fault and make disparaging
comments. To justify their own choice? To defend any perceived
criticism of their lifestyle, where there is none implied? Who knows.
I do know I have a two year-end portfolios completed, no one has
looked or asked to look if they were aware of them. Sometimes it
seems like some are only looking for reasons to justify not believing
in our choice, not rejoicing in our successes. That's okay. I
understand. I'll try not to take it so personally anymore. I don't
want it to be a source of conflict and ill feelings.
I also know when I was going over Worldbook's Scope and Sequence for
end of last school year that Megan had covered everything but two
small details. Without scheduling any lessons by me. Does anyone
realize that the curriculum for 5th grade at (current local school)
is not the same as (previous local school) or any other public
school? The bureaucrats cannot not agree on a nationwide or even
statewide curriculum. So I use Worldbook's and a book I have on
custom curriculums. A lot of the stuff is repetitive from year to
year. They keep going over the same stuff. She may not get the
exact lesson in the exact order of school, but I'm assured she gets
just as much retained and probably more. We count every moment of the
day as learning, and she easily gets her 900 hours a year just by
writing things down that look remotely educational.
Not to mention her overall attitude and maturity have progressed so
much. What may not be outwardly visible to others is crystal clear to
me. She still has a lot of spirited qualities in her personality that
nothing will change. I'm learning different responses and ways to
handle them, and she is learning to better utilize them. That's a
whole 'nother email and book recommendation!
So here's hope to new understanding. We celebrate this lifestyle and
have found immeasurable joy, and we want folks to be happy for us.
Just as we are happy when folks are living the life they want to
lead. Of course it isn't perfect, we have our bad moments and bad
days, make our fair share of mistakes, but I still thank God every
day Megan is who she is and her "problems" were opportunities to lead
us to a wonderful journey.
If I never breathe another word about homeschooling to anyone, this
is my position for the record.
In mutual respect,
Angela
<glmnw@w...> wrote:
> Hi all~Hi. It's me Ang, I haven't read or posted here for awhile. You wanna
> How do you respond to family members?>>>>>>>>>>>>
know how I handled the family members, once and for all? I sent them
this really long email. I got tired of the "concerns" and the veiled
insults, so I put it in writing (i do best writing and not with in-
person conflicts). I am browsing posts and saw this question about
responding to family members, so here it is. Everyone i know who has
email got copied. No one came back and questioned me, except one aunt
who asked what LOL means. And i did get some complimentary feedback.
I put it out there and how they feel about it at this point is their
problem. It's long, i tried not to be too offensive, and i when i say
I "use" the world book scope and sequence, all that means is i scan
it and say yep, yep, covered that, this would count for that, etc. No
forced curriculum. And it helps me organize my portfolio for year-end
assessment.
And an extra plug for no limits on tv, food, whatever the children
are feared to get carried away with. It works. Trust your instincts,
they work. Trust your children, they're brilliant.
And a little honesty here: I was getting way too consumed with this
group. I was starting to question, in a bad way, every little
decision or thing that happened. I began to second-guess everything I
did and look to the list "experts" for insight and approval. I
didn't trust myself completely to make own choices anymore. Really. I
was losing touch with my own instincts, instincts that serve me well
when I listen to them. So I took a break, and i am in a better place
now. I am more in-tune to my kids needs and what works for us without
second-guessing every thing we are doing. I was spending way too
much time online away from my kids and it was putting too many
criticizing voices in my head.
So thanks for the wisdom of people who share so much of their time, I
apologize that I can't spend more time here. I hope you understand. I
think that is a testimony, that you can learn so much here that you
can leave it behind with confidence that you can unschool
successfully. The legacy lives on in my daily life. I miss you guys,
hence my browsing here tonight. Maybe someday i will find the balance
to be active here again.
well, here it is for those interested in reading...(email me offlist
if you want to comment or slam me, i am on no mail on this list :0)
SUBJECT: For the Record
10/08/03
I wrote this to go with a picture of numbers that Ashlyn wrote. The
pic is a springboard to qualify my feelings on some issues about our
homeschooling. Stop reading now if you don't want to hear about it.
Or print and read it later so as not to stir you at an inconvenient
time. I don't think it's too provocative, but it's less accusing than
the ones I wrote in the past and never sent about our homeschooling
decision and defending some points, after feeling attacked and
insulted for so long. LOL!! (I have scanned the pic if you want it
emailed to you.)
I am copying this to everyone because when I am this excited about
something I can hardly contain it. I have kept a lot to myself out of
fear of backlash or frustrating misunderstanding. The "people"
referred to is not necessarily anyone in particular reading this, but
comes from many different experiences from many people, including
family, friends, and even strangers over the past few years. So no
finger pointing, but if you recognize yourself in here somewhere,
don't hesitate to ask me for clarification. Some of you may also be
reading this who have never openly questioned me, but you may have
unspoken questions or doubts. I hope this addresses it all.
Why do I feel the need to prove what we do works for us? Probably
because I don't get the overall impression that I get the benefit of
the doubt with this endeavor. So read it or not, groan, laugh, roll
your eyes, or heck, nod in agreement. You won't hurt my feelings. Or
change my mind :0) I am writing this just as much for me as for
anyone else. I'll be cheering myself on even if no one else feels
compelled to. LOL So here goes.......
I did not teach Ashlyn(4) how to write those numbers. She learned by
living daily life and being a curious kid. This is *the foundation of
my homeschooling philosophy*, that kids will learn without coercion
what they need to familiarize themselves with the world around them.
It doesn't mysteriously stop at some arbitrary age. Christian(2) can
count to ten and name colors the same way. No one ever decided they
needed to know these things and sat them down and taught them with a
program. Just like learning to walk and talk, it's like the air they
breathe.
Learning is everywhere, there is no magic formula for kids to be
filled with regimented instruction, they will seek it on their own as
long as their curiosity hasn't been stamped out by drilling and
forceful teaching and controlling and shaming for not performing.
Learning comes from desire and interest and is retained because it
has personal meaning. Memorizing facts at school to be sometimes
forgotten or discarded because they are not relevant or useful
personally is not the same. I say these things from experience of my
schooling, Megan's schooling, and others' experiences that have been
shared with me. YMMV-- Your Mileage May Vary.
My job in the capacity of homeschooling and parenting in general is
to provide a loving, rich, nurturing environment and lots of
guidance. Lots of exposure to important and interesting things about
our world and the past. Setting good examples for reading,
researching, and finding out new things everyday. Imparting a sense
of discovery and fascination about so many things about our existence
in this life. Paying a lot of attention and noticing when my kids
need something, or want to learn more about something without pushing
them into my own agenda. With my tendency to be dramatic about such
things, these goals are actually accomplished rather simply and
beautifully.
Megan(11) learns the same way as my younger two. And we are happy and
joyful living and learning this way and no one is going to change
that LOL. I am not saying these things to start a debate, I just
don't know that I've ever explained what we do and why quite this
way. I get regular evidence like this picture, or a conversation, or
many other clues and intimate knowledge and daily affirmation of how
and what my children learn. It's amazing. I am absolutely confident
in how this works. I have gotten defensive, not that I don't believe
in this valid decision, but that people don't have faith that I'm
intelligent enough to know what I'm doing with my kids. We
appreciate other peoples' concerns, but we find most fears to be
unfounded. Generally, they are false assumptions or lack of
information.
We absolutely know what we are doing. And we don't criticize or find
fault with other's decisions now or in the past on how to educate
their children. To each his own! Schools serve their own purpose and
meet the needs of some, but they are not the answer for every child
or family. We just wish more people would believe in us and not
openly criticize and look for deficits to dismiss our whole
lifestyle.
It took me a year and a half to make the decision to bring Megan
home, it wasn't something I did lightly. I tried everything I knew to
help her be successful in school, including some ganging up on her
with the school staff that I horribly regret. I researched and read
and deliberated, and I finally just went for it. I do not regret it
for one second, except for not doing it sooner. Believe that I am
doing what I think is in her best interest, no other reason. We are
doing this from love and trust, not fear. And we trust all of our
children to give them a choice to go to public school at anytime. I
am no martyr, but a lot of personal sacrifice goes into
homeschooling, it is not the path of least resistance. In other
words, I am not doing it to take the easy way out of school, just as
I don't think schooling parents are doing it likewise. Each have
their own demands and stresses, I have been down both roads. At the
same time, I don't find homeschooling too much to ask of myself, I
find it a worthy investment. My choices are based on my own findings
and experiences and values, not reflective of anyone else's choice.
As I've said all along, there are no guarantees. Going to school does
not guarantee a great education and a happy, successful life. Nor
does homeschooling. But Megan is learning that she can trust herself
and her curiosity, that she can do anything she sets her mind to,
that she can make her own decisions slowly with confidence and
support from me. She wasn't getting that in school, she was
getting "you don't know what you need, so for your own good, do as we
say, don't think for yourself. Do this or else." She was not learning
much, and she was becoming more withdrawn and defiant. Her spark was
gone. It is taking a long time for her to heal and blossom again, but
I have already seen enough to know we made the right decision.
People may never understand my perspective. There are some great
books that would help to understand, like the Unschooling Handbook by
Mary Griffith, the Homeschooling Book of Answers by Linda Dobson,
anything by John Holt or John Taylor Gatto. It seems no one who
debates with me wants to hear or understand or learn about the
mechanics of it, they just want to find fault and make disparaging
comments. To justify their own choice? To defend any perceived
criticism of their lifestyle, where there is none implied? Who knows.
I do know I have a two year-end portfolios completed, no one has
looked or asked to look if they were aware of them. Sometimes it
seems like some are only looking for reasons to justify not believing
in our choice, not rejoicing in our successes. That's okay. I
understand. I'll try not to take it so personally anymore. I don't
want it to be a source of conflict and ill feelings.
I also know when I was going over Worldbook's Scope and Sequence for
end of last school year that Megan had covered everything but two
small details. Without scheduling any lessons by me. Does anyone
realize that the curriculum for 5th grade at (current local school)
is not the same as (previous local school) or any other public
school? The bureaucrats cannot not agree on a nationwide or even
statewide curriculum. So I use Worldbook's and a book I have on
custom curriculums. A lot of the stuff is repetitive from year to
year. They keep going over the same stuff. She may not get the
exact lesson in the exact order of school, but I'm assured she gets
just as much retained and probably more. We count every moment of the
day as learning, and she easily gets her 900 hours a year just by
writing things down that look remotely educational.
Not to mention her overall attitude and maturity have progressed so
much. What may not be outwardly visible to others is crystal clear to
me. She still has a lot of spirited qualities in her personality that
nothing will change. I'm learning different responses and ways to
handle them, and she is learning to better utilize them. That's a
whole 'nother email and book recommendation!
So here's hope to new understanding. We celebrate this lifestyle and
have found immeasurable joy, and we want folks to be happy for us.
Just as we are happy when folks are living the life they want to
lead. Of course it isn't perfect, we have our bad moments and bad
days, make our fair share of mistakes, but I still thank God every
day Megan is who she is and her "problems" were opportunities to lead
us to a wonderful journey.
If I never breathe another word about homeschooling to anyone, this
is my position for the record.
In mutual respect,
Angela
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/8/03 9:55:07 PM, unolist@... writes:
<< So thanks for the wisdom of people who share so much of their time, I
apologize that I can't spend more time here. I hope you understand. I
think that is a testimony, that you can learn so much here that you
can leave it behind with confidence that you can unschool
successfully. The legacy lives on in my daily life. I miss you guys,
hence my browsing here tonight. Maybe someday i will find the balance
to be active here again. >>
Different people are different ways about volunteer work (offering/receiving)
and that's fine. I have NO interest on earth in being a girl scout leader,
but I liked being a girl scout. (I looked into it years ago and it seemed
oppressive and inflexible.) There are other organizations I've donated tons of
time to.
When I went to La Leche League, I just kept going month after month, because
I liked the contact with other moms and babies I knew. I'm still friends with
some of them today, 17 years later
<< So thanks for the wisdom of people who share so much of their time, I
apologize that I can't spend more time here. I hope you understand. I
think that is a testimony, that you can learn so much here that you
can leave it behind with confidence that you can unschool
successfully. The legacy lives on in my daily life. I miss you guys,
hence my browsing here tonight. Maybe someday i will find the balance
to be active here again. >>
Different people are different ways about volunteer work (offering/receiving)
and that's fine. I have NO interest on earth in being a girl scout leader,
but I liked being a girl scout. (I looked into it years ago and it seemed
oppressive and inflexible.) There are other organizations I've donated tons of
time to.
When I went to La Leche League, I just kept going month after month, because
I liked the contact with other moms and babies I knew. I'm still friends with
some of them today, 17 years later
Elizabeth Roberts
LOL Hey, I'm a Girl Scout leader!! Never went to LLL though..couldn't breastfeed. I don't make any milk as a result of surgery as a premature newborn :-(
Elizabeth in MA
Different people are different ways about volunteer work (offering/receiving) and that's fine. I have NO interest on earth in being a girl scout leader, but I liked being a girl scout. (I looked into it years ago and it seemed
oppressive and inflexible.) There are other rganizations I've donated tons of time to."
When I went to La Leche League, I just kept going month after month, because
I liked the contact with other moms and babies I knew. I'm still friends with
some of them today, 17 years later
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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Elizabeth in MA
Different people are different ways about volunteer work (offering/receiving) and that's fine. I have NO interest on earth in being a girl scout leader, but I liked being a girl scout. (I looked into it years ago and it seemed
oppressive and inflexible.) There are other rganizations I've donated tons of time to."
When I went to La Leche League, I just kept going month after month, because
I liked the contact with other moms and babies I knew. I'm still friends with
some of them today, 17 years later
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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