moonwindstarsky

how do they go to college, or get a job?

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/5/2003 5:27:03 PM Mountain Standard Time,
moonwindstarsky@... writes:
how do they go to college, or get a job?
----------------------

They do what they like and get out into the community and volunteer and
eventually are offered or get a lead on a job.

They apply for some beginnig kind of college class at a junior college or
community college and see if they like it, sometimes. After they take a few
classes, they can say "some college" on applications, and if they did okay on those
clases, they can use that when they apply to college full time.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/5/03 06:27:16 PM Central Standard Time,
moonwindstarsky@... writes:
how do they go to college, or get a job?
*************
How does anyone go to college or get a job? Not saying college is or isn't
important, but many many people never went or dropped out. And lots of folks
have jobs. My DH has one, there are a few others here who either have spouses
that work or they work themselves. Some of the kids have jobs too. Moly has a
small lawn mowing business; complete with fliers, cards, bills, and receipts, she
is almost ten. She doesn't go to school or college.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scott Bieser

At 06:43 PM 11/5/2003, Dnowens@... wrote:

>In a message dated 11/5/03 06:27:16 PM Central Standard Time,
>moonwindstarsky@... writes:
>how do they go to college, or get a job?
>*************
>How does anyone go to college or get a job? Not saying college is or isn't
>important, but many many people never went or dropped out. And lots of folks
>have jobs. My DH has one, there are a few others here who either have spouses
>that work or they work themselves. Some of the kids have jobs too. Moly has a
>small lawn mowing business; complete with fliers, cards, bills, and
>receipts, she
>is almost ten. She doesn't go to school or college.

I have noticed that home-schoolers tend to be more entrepreneurial,
generally, than the general population. Their children will, I think, tend
to be even more oriented towards creating their own businesses than
"getting a job."

But the job market -- and for the most part college as well -- is just as
accessible to home-schooled youngsters as the government-schooled. Nearly
every state offers a "general education degree" type certificate one
obtains by passing written exams, which functions as the equivalent of a
high-school diploma. And increasingly, both employers and colleges are
looking at a lot of things _besides_ a high-school sheepskin to gauge
applicants, as said sheepskins have plummeted in value.



--Scott Bieser
proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
http://www.libertyartworx.com
Buy stuff with my art on it!
http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx

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Pam Hartley

--- In [email protected],
"moonwindstarsky" <moonwindstarsky@y...> wrote:
> how do they go to college, or get a job?


Like everyone else does -- an application process, or a testing
process, or an interview, or all of the above...

Some don't go to college (just like schooled people) and some
make their own jobs (just like schooled people).

Pam

Elizabeth Roberts

Hello! My name is Elizabeth. I have four children, ages 7; 3; 2 and 2 months. This is our second year of homeschooling, and in the past two years we've run the gamut of school at home to unschooling and back to school at home and now once again into unschooling.

We're going home for Christmas, and I know the subject of "homeschooling" is going to come up. My younger brother is the only one at this point who knows we're homeschooling and he wants to know more of why, etc. I pointed him in the direction of J.T. Gatto and John Holt's writings on education and he's promised to read them so we can have an "old-fashioned" debate (something we used to do when growing up that I'm looking forward to..it means staying up late arguing loudly, M&Ms as weapons and some Cherry Coke LOL) about the subject. He is the ONLY one in my family open to hearing me out rather than just chewing me out.

Two years ago when we were thinking about homeschooling, I tried to tell my mother why we were considering it, etc. and she had a COW over it. She's not at all open to the idea. Especially because my oldest has some "special needs" issues.

SO when we go home, and my mother realizes that Sarah's "missing nearly a month of school" by the time we go back home, and that I won't have a single book or assignment for her to "stay caught up" with...it's going to get rough. Worse when I explain that we don't use a curriculum at all, just life.

I'm not worried so much about me in all of the mess that's coming because I'm used to it. There isn't a darn thing I have EVER done in my life that has been"right" according to my mother. But Sarah is an innocent. I've explained to her that Grandma doesn't agree with homeschooling and that there might be an argument over it while we're there. She already knows that while we're at Grandma's house there will be a ton of rules to follow "Don't touch this, don't touch that, children need to eat everything on their plates and not snack and go to bed at 6:30 pm" type things.

I'd avoid visiting my mother if I could, but she's asked for us to come up (we'll be staying with my inlaws who are 100% supportive of us) and visit. She's never met the two youngest, only seen Logan once and Sarah three times in their lives.

Among the arguments I know she'll bring up will be that it's irresponsible of me to presume that I can educate my children better than a professional. I know unschooling isn't irresponsible, but rather teaching my child to become responsible for her own self.

Any ideas how I might handle this, especially how I might keep it from becoming a major issue? I have thought about sitting down and writing out a letter explaining our reasons and everything and sending it before we come down.

Elizabeth



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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 11:33:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Any ideas how I might handle this, especially how I might keep it from
becoming a major issue? I have thought about sitting down and writing out a letter
explaining our reasons and everything and sending it before we come down.

Elizabeth
********************************
A couple of ideas: The letter sounds good. It'd be a good start. I'd ask
her in the letter to call you and you can talk about it, but I'd also let her
know that if there is going to be any arguments about it, then you won't be
visiting her. Explain that you don't want your daughter to ever feel that your
choices are less than "adequate" or that she is missing out on a lot. If she
doesn't have a cow about it this time, maybe you could bring her a very simple
book by J. T. Gatto to read. Afterall, he WAS a "professional" who's eyes
were opened to a better way of teaching. I'd especially bring something of his
explaining why the school system is broke and unfixable. Good luck!

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Among the arguments I know she'll bring up will be that it's irresponsible of me to presume that I can educate my children better than a professional. I know unschooling isn't irresponsible, but rather teaching my child to become responsible for her own self.

Any ideas how I might handle this, especially how I might keep it from becoming a major issue? I have thought about sitting down and writing out a letter explaining our reasons and everything and sending it before we come down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I wrote a letter like thise for my MIL but never sent it because we came to a sort of truce. I forget trying to explain unschooling and she doesn't question my choice. But...The letter I wrote started up with a lot of buttering up. Something like,
"I know your questions about homeschooling come from your love and concern for Catherine. First off I'd like to say Thank You for that. Catherine is lucky to have so many caring people in her life who have her best interests at heart.
I know the choice we've made seems strange but it's one that we made in the interests of raising a responsible, independant person who carrys a love of learning with her throughout her life. There is a lot of information out there regarding homeschooling and unschooling and I have spent a lot of time researching this. Here's a list of books, websites, etc. that you can look at for yourself and that can answer your questions better than I could."
I wouldn't bother explaining to much. If you give her a nice long list of resources to search out you've made it her problem. If she chooses to do the research she may come around. If she doesn't then her refusal to do so is her responsibility and you have the right not to be dragged into any arguments she hasn't bothered to prepare herself for.
Other then that I'd just prepare short, snippy answers in advance. About whether you're qualified maybe, "I know that Mom, but she's imminently qualified to learn so I don't need to worry about teaching." But stop it there and don't get dragged into anything further. Tell her to take her list of books to the library and research. Hope this helps.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 10:34:36 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:


> Two years ago when we were thinking about homeschooling, I tried to tell my
> mother why we were considering it, etc. and she had a COW over it. She's not
> at all open to the idea.

If' she's not open to it, then there's no sense arguing with her about it and
trying to convince her. It's just a waste of energy in my opinion.

What I do with people who aren't at all interested, but who pester me with
questions in public to prove to themselves and others that we are making a
mistake is to say "Why, yes, we are schooling. Nathan should be in kindergarten,
but we've moved to first grade to keep him challenged." They don't care what
we do all day, I'd rather lie to them than waste myself on converting them.

When people have an inkling of interest, I'll explain that the homeschooling
(why bother mentioning unschooling to the uninformed?) parent spends much more
time and effort following their childrens' interests and that it really is a
lot of work, and a lot of fun. I explain it as an adventure and leave it at
that.

My mom has a lot of rules in her house that we don't follow in ours. I just
say outloud that it's Grandma's rule and the kids go along with it. Not about
eating and sleeping, though. We generally follow our own pattern there, but
we haven't had arguments about it.

Oh, and for more combative moments I've said (to my father) "Until you've
done one tenth of the research I have on this, you are nowhere near the authority
I am. Your opinion may count to me more if you do some reading."

YMMV

Elizabeth, the other one. I think there's three now?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 9:33:00 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:

<< SO when we go home, and my mother realizes that Sarah's "missing nearly a
month of school" by the time we go back home, and that I won't have a single
book or assignment for her to "stay caught up" with.. >>

I wouldn't say "I won't have a single book." That's just antagonistic.

Don't you have ANY books at your house!? If not, GET some. Don't you have
libraries near your house? Tell them your kids have access to thousands of
books and the internet. Tell them what you Do have instead of what you don't.

<<Any ideas how I might handle this, especially how I might keep it from
becoming a major issue? I have thought about sitting down and writing out a letter
explaining our reasons and everything and sending it before we come down. >>

I would do that, and I would also say the length of your time in her home is
going to depend on her willingness to let you be there in happiness and peace,
that you're not coming to be on trial or shamed in front of your children,
and that it's up to her whether he can be welcoming and sweet.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
><< SO when we go home, and my mother realizes that Sarah's "missing nearly a
>month of school" by the time we go back home, and that I won't have a single
>book or assignment for her to "stay caught up" with.. >>
>
>I wouldn't say "I won't have a single book." That's just antagonistic.
>
>Don't you have ANY books at your house!? If not, GET some. Don't you have
>libraries near your house? Tell them your kids have access to thousands of
>books and the internet. Tell them what you Do have instead of what you
>don't.

I thought she meant she wouldn't have a single *school book* with her on
their visit.
Tia

Elizabeth Roberts

Thank you Dawn! I will remember that when I write.

Elizabeth in MA

Dawn Adams <Wishbone@...> wrote:
Among the arguments I know she'll bring up will be that it's irresponsible of me to presume that I can educate my children better than a professional. I know unschooling isn't irresponsible, but rather teaching my child to become responsible for her own self.

Any ideas how I might handle this, especially how I might keep it from becoming a major issue? I have thought about sitting down and writing out a letter explaining our reasons and everything and sending it before we come down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I wrote a letter like thise for my MIL but never sent it because we came to a sort of truce. I forget trying to explain unschooling and she doesn't question my choice. But...The letter I wrote started up with a lot of buttering up. Something like,
"I know your questions about homeschooling come from your love and concern for Catherine. First off I'd like to say Thank You for that. Catherine is lucky to have so many caring people in her life who have her best interests at heart.
I know the choice we've made seems strange but it's one that we made in the interests of raising a responsible, independant person who carrys a love of learning with her throughout her life. There is a lot of information out there regarding homeschooling and unschooling and I have spent a lot of time researching this. Here's a list of books, websites, etc. that you can look at for yourself and that can answer your questions better than I could."
I wouldn't bother explaining to much. If you give her a nice long list of resources to search out you've made it her problem. If she chooses to do the research she may come around. If she doesn't then her refusal to do so is her responsibility and you have the right not to be dragged into any arguments she hasn't bothered to prepare herself for.
Other then that I'd just prepare short, snippy answers in advance. About whether you're qualified maybe, "I know that Mom, but she's imminently qualified to learn so I don't need to worry about teaching." But stop it there and don't get dragged into anything further. Tell her to take her list of books to the library and research. Hope this helps.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Elizabeth Roberts

Elizabeth,

I will use "Elizabeth in MA" to hopefully try to differentiate myself...or I could go by Beth if that might be easiest for the group.

Elizabeth in MA

ejcrewe@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/6/2003 10:34:36 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:


> Two years ago when we were thinking about homeschooling, I tried to tell my
> mother why we were considering it, etc. and she had a COW over it. She's not
> at all open to the idea.

If' she's not open to it, then there's no sense arguing with her about it and
trying to convince her. It's just a waste of energy in my opinion.

What I do with people who aren't at all interested, but who pester me with
questions in public to prove to themselves and others that we are making a
mistake is to say "Why, yes, we are schooling. Nathan should be in kindergarten,
but we've moved to first grade to keep him challenged." They don't care what
we do all day, I'd rather lie to them than waste myself on converting them.

When people have an inkling of interest, I'll explain that the homeschooling
(why bother mentioning unschooling to the uninformed?) parent spends much more
time and effort following their childrens' interests and that it really is a
lot of work, and a lot of fun. I explain it as an adventure and leave it at
that.

My mom has a lot of rules in her house that we don't follow in ours. I just
say outloud that it's Grandma's rule and the kids go along with it. Not about
eating and sleeping, though. We generally follow our own pattern there, but
we haven't had arguments about it.

Oh, and for more combative moments I've said (to my father) "Until you've
done one tenth of the research I have on this, you are nowhere near the authority
I am. Your opinion may count to me more if you do some reading."

YMMV

Elizabeth, the other one. I think there's three now?


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Elizabeth Roberts

Tia said "I thought she meant she wouldn't have a single *school book* with her on their visit"\

Yes, that is what I meant. No text-books. Traveling a two-day road trip with no books?! YIKES! NOT HAPPENING! AND we have library cards for the library systems at both my mother's AND my motherinlaw's handy.

Elizabeth in MA



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Julie Solich

>> Don't you have ANY books at your house!? If not, GET some. Don't you
have libraries near your house? Tell them your kids have access to
thousands of books and the internet. Tell them what you Do have instead
of what you don't.>>


I think that when you're dealing with disapproving relatives you need to
come across with supreme confidence. I never wait to be asked what we are
doing I start first and tell them excitedly all the WONDERFUL stuff we have
been doing, the great books we have read, places we have been. Make a big
list for yourself before you go and and think hard about all the
conversations you have had with your kids, movies that have provided food
for thought and go armed with confidence and joy in your life and your
children's learning.

Julie


>
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>

Elizabeth Roberts

Julie,

Thanks for your suggestion! I will consider it!

Elizabeth in MA



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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/7/2003 12:01:10 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:


> I will use "Elizabeth in MA"

And I'll put "in IL" after mine, no biggie. We have a lot of variations on
Kelly here, too. And two Tia's.

Elizabeth in IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>
>And I'll put "in IL" after mine, no biggie. We have a lot of variations on
>Kelly here, too. And two Tia's.

Haven't heard from the other Tia for a while. I think she left.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/7/03 08:48:16 AM Central Standard Time, ejcrewe@...
writes:
In a message dated 11/7/2003 12:01:10 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:


> I will use "Elizabeth in MA"

And I'll put "in IL" after mine, no biggie. We have a lot of variations on
Kelly here, too. And two Tia's.

Elizabeth in IL
##########

And there are at least four Nancy's who post regularly too.
~Nancy~ in Kansas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

And I think I am the only Kelli with an * i *, :)

Although now that I think of it, there was one around last year. Havn't heard from her in a while tho'.

Kelli~



----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Explaining Unschooling (also an intro)



>
>
>And I'll put "in IL" after mine, no biggie. We have a lot of variations on
>Kelly here, too. And two Tia's.

Haven't heard from the other Tia for a while. I think she left.
Tia


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