[email protected]

In a message dated 11/5/03 8:19:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:
I made allowance for practical reasons when I mentioned Canada. Fear based
living is not on my list.

Tuck
>>>

It seems you are implying that folks who go trunk or treating do it based on
fear. Every reason I gave had to do with convenience, not fear. Pam
mentioned that she was not comfortable getting candy from folks she didn't know.. I
can certainly respect that.. But, in my case, I was born and raised here, ..
36 years of living in the same community.. I DO know the folks that live around
me, and I trust them. My children choose what they want to do for
Halloween, and since our local churches began trunk or treat, that is their choice.
It has nothing to do with fear, it has to do with fun. Why does it so
offend you?

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/5/2003 2:25:08 PM Central Standard Time,
TeresaBnNC@... writes:
Why does it so
offend you?
~~~

It doesn't. But as a former Southern Baptist, serving in "women's
leadership" at one of the world's largest Southern Baptist churches for several years, I
know all about harvest festivals in place of Halloween and all the rest. I
know the motivations behind the "no scary costumes" and "must dress like
biblical characters" edicts. If your particular church doesn't do trunk or treat
out of fear of being too pagan, then good for you. I am CERTAIN there are
churches that do.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 7:36:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:

> It doesn't. But as a former Southern Baptist, serving in "women's
> leadership" at one of the world's largest Southern Baptist churches for
> several years, I
> know all about harvest festivals in place of Halloween and all the rest. I
> know the motivations behind the "no scary costumes" and "must dress like
> biblical characters" edicts. If your particular church doesn't do trunk or
> treat
> out of fear of being too pagan, then good for you. I am CERTAIN there are
> churches that do.
>
>

Oh see...now I get it. ROFLOL. When you said "fear". I thought you meant
fear of taking your kids to strange neighbors. Fear that your children would
be in an unsafe area. LOL. Which is part why I take my kids to friends I know
or Jackson knows. LOL. Not fear of being too pagan. LOL.
I feel so naive now.
But the one trunk or treat we did do, year before last, had no restrictions
on costumes, they had "scary" trunks, we had a scary trunk. They did have a
hotdog supper with it. And they had fun games. There were adults dressed up
too with scary costumes, etc. But I have heard of one church that had those
restrictions. Not sure any more. We don't go to church. So I am not familiar
with most.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 7:36:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:
If your particular church doesn't do trunk or treat
out of fear of being too pagan, then good for you. I am CERTAIN there are
churches that do.

Tuck
>>>

And I am CERTAIN, that not just "my" church.. ( as a matter of fact, "my"
church does not do trunk or treat) celebrates Halloween in the fashion that I
described in a earlier post. I can only speak for.. hmm.. I'de say about a 100
mile radius of Conover, NC.. but it is much more common around here to
celebrate Halloween in traditional ways ( in MANY-- the MAJORITY-- of churches)
than to try to change it to "something Christian"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 5:36:18 AM, tuckervill2@... writes:

<< I
know the motivations behind the "no scary costumes" and "must dress like
biblical characters" edicts. >>

I didnt' know about the biblical characters. Could it be the snake in the
garden? Could it be Jacob dressed as Esau? (That famous "cheating liar makes
good" story where a mom just loved one son better because he was more girlie.)
Could it be Goliath destroying the neighborhood? Could it be a Roman
soldier? And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a better evil tie-in
than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas, unless she
sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's vision of
womanhood (subhuman). Or Jacob's devious mom. Or Leah with the squinty red
runny eyes whose dad tricked her into marrying Jacob.

The boys would have much better choices.

Sandra

Kelly Lenhart

> And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a better evil tie-in
>than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas, unless
she
>sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's vision of
>womanhood (subhuman).

Ugh, who is the one the Jews demonize? Well, Lilith, but she's not
technically biblical. The one from Purim? I'd go as her!

Kelly

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 11:04:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a better evil tie-in
than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas, unless she
sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's vision of
womanhood (subhuman). Or Jacob's devious mom. Or Leah with the squinty red
runny eyes whose dad tricked her into marrying Jacob.
**********************************************

A girl could go as Lot's wife (I think that's the one) that turned into a
pillar of salt. She could paint herself white, and have someone wheel her in on
a dolly :o) Oh! And you forgot Delila..evil seductress. You could go as
Herod's (I think) wife or stepdaughter, carrying John the Baptist's head...with
veins and bones and blood dripping out of the neck. Or no, I guess it would
have to be on a platter. LOL!!

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 10:05:12 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
The boys would have much better choices.
Jon went as a newsboy, and we made up a newspaper from the era of the flood.
Nobody got it.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/6/03 5:36:18 AM, tuckervill2@a... writes:
>
> << I
> know the motivations behind the "no scary costumes" and "must dress
like
> biblical characters" edicts. >>
>
> I didnt' know about the biblical characters. Could it be the snake
in the
> garden? Could it be Jacob dressed as Esau? (That famous "cheating
liar makes
> good" story where a mom just loved one son better because he was
more girlie.)
> Could it be Goliath destroying the neighborhood? Could it be a
Roman
> soldier? And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a
better evil tie-in
> than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas,
unless she
> sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's
vision of
> womanhood (subhuman). Or Jacob's devious mom. Or Leah with the
squinty red
> runny eyes whose dad tricked her into marrying Jacob.
>
> The boys would have much better choices.

Heck no! In the Book of Judges, Jael put a tent spike through
Sisera's head...hey, if it was a date, the boy could dress as Sisera,
and the woman as Jael. But that would be scary.

Deborah was a Judge in Israel. Miriam (Moses' big sister) was a song
writer. Moses' mother, who put her baby in the basket to save him
from the Egyptian soldiers. Queen of Sheba! The Beloved mentioned in
Song of Solomon (dark, perfumed, sexy)! Dorcas who was the original
Reuse-recycler in the Book of Acts revamping clothing and
redistributing to the poor. The Proverbs 31 woman who bought a field
and raised a vineyard on it, with much profit.

Timothy's grandmother who taught him about God...and so forth.

lots of choice for the girls, too.

blessings, HeidiC


> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 7:36:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tuckervill2@... writes:

> But as a former Southern Baptist, serving in "women's
> leadership" at one of the world's largest Southern Baptist churches for
> several years, I
> know all about harvest festivals in place of Halloween and all the rest. I
> know the motivations behind the "no scary costumes" and "must dress like
> biblical characters" edicts. If your particular church doesn't do trunk or
> treat
> out of fear of being too pagan, then good for you. I am CERTAIN there are
> churches that do.
>
> Tuck
>

The local public schools here aren't Christian based, far from it. Yet they
have them same type rules for the kids, NO SCARY COSTUMES and recommend fairy
tale characters or famous authors as examples.

So LOT'S of different parts of life try to discourage the ugly and scary
characters of Halloween, not just the Church.

They seem to want to emphasize the FUN of the event, dressing up, getting
treats, mingling with friends and neighbors and eliminate the stuff that "might"
give little kids nightmares or scream in fright at the site of them.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 11/6/03 2:45 PM, The Scanlons at scanlon36@... wrote:

> The girls could be any of those choices.

I suspect the fundamentalists who are limiting costumes to Biblical choices
would frown on girls dressing up as boys. Girls should be choosing female
role models.

Joyce

The Scanlons

<<The boys would have much better choices.

The girls could be any of those choices.

Sandy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 10:05:14 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a better evil tie-in
than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas, unless she
sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's vision of
womanhood (subhuman). Or Jacob's devious mom. Or Leah with the squinty red
runny eyes whose dad tricked her into marrying Jacob.

The boys would have much better choices.

Sandra
############

I don't know about that! Women of the Bible, boring? There are some pretty
catty, slutty, nasty, brave, and honorable women in the Bible. And there are
lots of stupid, always looking for the next easy score, men in the Bible. Many of
them with strong, smart, biding their time, women behind them.

Jezebel helped her husband out. He had more land than he knew what to do
with, yet he still wanted this one small vineyard, so Jezebel frames the man. He
is charged with the capital offense of cursing God's name, and is stoned to
death. However, God punishes her as she is cursed to be eaten by dogs within the
city walls, her corpse would be like dung on fields so no one could bury her,
or say *this is Jezebel*. Meaning that no trace of her would exist and no one
could go to a grave and say "here she is."
>>A girl could dress up like Jezebel and hang stuffed dogs off of herself, as
if they were biting and eating her. <g>

There is Bathsheba; King David fell so hopelessly in love with her he calls
for her, has sex with her and knocks her up. Oops! She has a husband, So David
sends her husband, Uriah, back out into battle. Specifically the front lines
so he would be killed so David and Bathsheba could keep their little secret.
>>A girl could dress up as if she were pregnant and drag around the corpse of
her murdered husband.

David sends Rizpah's, a concubine of Saul, son's into the hands of the
Gibeonites. The Gibeonites impaled the men and left their bodies out in the
elements. Rizpah bravely leaves her home, and goes out to sit with the men's bodies,
keeping birds and animals from further desecrating the bodies. She stands out
there by her children, away from her duties at home for months! Rotting
decaying bodies, and she stays by them to keep them from suffering further insult by
becoming carrion. David sees her loyalty and brave actions and has the bodies
removed for proper, honorable burial.
>>Dress up in sackcloth and have two dolls spiked beside you?

There is Delilah; she was a paid "spy". She gained Samson's "love" and
tricked him into telling her the source of his strength. The problem with this story
is that she had to trick Samson three or four times before he would tell her
about his hair, and each time she was caught in the act and yet he still goes
back to her and tells her more and more!
>>A girl could dress up as a slutty hairdresser of Israel and a boy could
dress up as the stupid Samson. <eg>

Jael goes out and tricks an enemy of the Israelites, killing him with
kindness, and finally a tent peg.
>>A blood covered woman with a tent peg in her hand and a bloody head in the
other?

I love reading about the women in the bible.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

Does Salome count as biblical?

Robyn Coburn



<<The boys would have much better choices.>>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 5:54:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dnowens@...
writes:
There is Bathsheba; King David fell so hopelessly in love with her he calls
for her, has sex with her and knocks her up. Oops! She has a husband, So
David
sends her husband, Uriah, back out into battle. Specifically the front lines
so he would be killed so David and Bathsheba could keep their little secret.
>>A girl could dress up as if she were pregnant and drag around the corpse of
her murdered husband.
>>

I wondered if anyone would mention Bathsheba.. I always think of her as David
"peeping Tom'ed" on her while she bathed.. I recently read something about
"biblical sexual feats" about David and Bathsheba's affair.. it was.. ahem..
interesting.. :-)

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 3:55:07 PM, Dnowens@... writes:

<< >>Dress up in sackcloth and have two dolls spiked beside you? >>

That one sounds good.

I bet if the girls started dressing up like THOSE women, the church might
just recommend a few years of witches and goblins to get closer to the message of
Jesus. Vampires and Cannibals. Now THAT can tie in easily with communion.

I like Potiphar's wife framing Joseph for rape when he won't fool around with
her:

39:6
And he left all that he had in Joseph's hand; and he knew not ought he had,
save the bread which he did eat. And Joseph was a goodly person, and well
favoured.

Joseph
is seduced
39:7
And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes
upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.

39:8
But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth
not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my
hand;

39:9
There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any
thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great
wickedness, and sin against God?

39:10
And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not
unto her, to lie by herhat Joseph went into the house to do his business; and
there was none of the men of the house there within.

39:12
And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his
garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out.

39:13
And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand,
and was fled forth,

39:14
That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See,
he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie
with me, and I cried with a loud voice:

39:15
And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that
he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out.

39:16
And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home.

39:17
And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant,
which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me:

39:18
And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his
garment with me, and fled out.

39:19
And it came to pass, when his master heard the words of his wife, which she
spake unto him, saying, After this manner did thy servant to me; that his wrath
was kindled.

39:20
And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the
king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

Julie Solich

> SandraDodd@... writes:
> And the girls' choices are... Eve (evil--there's a better evil tie-in
> than "medieval), Ruth (boring), Naomi (boring), Mary I (Christmas, unless
she
> sticks a big pillow in to be pregnant), Mary II (evil), or Paul's vision
of
> womanhood (subhuman). Or Jacob's devious mom. Or Leah with the squinty
red
> runny eyes whose dad tricked her into marrying Jacob.
> **********************************************
>
> A girl could go as Lot's wife (I think that's the one) that turned into a
pillar of salt. She could paint herself white, and have someone wheel her
in on a dolly :o) Oh! And you forgot Delila..evil seductress. You could
go as Herod's (I think) wife or stepdaughter, carrying John the Baptist's
head...with veins and bones and blood dripping out of the neck. Or no, I
guess it would
have to be on a platter. LOL!!

Nancy B. in WV

What about Jael who gave the Sisera a cup of milk to relieve his thirst
and then hammered a tent peg into his head...and don't forget Jezebel!!

Julie
>
>
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>
>
>
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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/03 11:36:31 PM Central Standard Time,
TeresaBnNC@... writes:
I wondered if anyone would mention Bathsheba.. I always think of her as David
"peeping Tom'ed" on her while she bathed.. I recently read something about
"biblical sexual feats" about David and Bathsheba's affair.. it was.. ahem..
interesting.. :-)

Teresa
###########

Where did you read it? Book, Internet, magazine??? Do tell me please!

Actually, I think Bathsheba is one of the most maligned women in the Bible.
People (preachers, historians...) place the blame squarely on her, when it was
David who wasn't where HE was supposed to be. Back in the day kings went off
to war. But David, for some reason stayed at home. Maybe he was too old, but
twice the writer of these verses tells us that David stayed at home, reinforcing
the idea that David, obviously wasn't where he was supposed to be.

In 2 Samuel 1:12; we are told that David has risen from his couch and takes a
walk on the roof of his house, where he sees a woman bathing, and that she
was very beautiful. It doesn't state that Bathsheba flaunted herself, it states
that David was watching her, unknown to her. Then he sends some guys to go get
her, and commands that she come to him. As a good subject she goes. He bids
her to lay with him and then we are told that she just gets up and goes home.
So she isn't the greedy manipulator so often portrayed. Later she has to send
word to David that she is pregnant. Some have said that she planned the
pregnancy, but how? If she didn't know that the king was a peeping tom, and she only
went to him as a subject of a king, and although she did have sex with him,
she didn't hang around plotting something, she went home. So David calls her
husband home from battle and tries to get him to take a little R&R, but being the
loyal soldier, Uriah will have none of it. Here we see that Uriah, the
foreigner is a better man than the king he is serving. David tries two or three
times to get the guy to go home. (He wants Uriah to go home and do what all men do
on return to their wives after a long campaign, so maybe Uriah will think the
child is his.) Finally David sends Uriah back out to war, and sends him to
the front lines where he is sure to get killed. At this point, Bathsheba becomes
David's wife and because of this, many would tell us that Bathsheba is the
instigator of this devious little plan, but really it is David who has committed
the sin and then makes even bigger sins trying in vain to cover up. Alas, he
doesn't get away with it. Nathan delivers a prophesy telling David that his
son will be struck down. And he is. We would assume that David would then not go
back and "be" with Bathsheba, but he does and eventually he and she have
another son, Solomon. And that is a whole 'nother story.

Oh, you didn't want a Bible lesson? Sorry. <g>
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

I know! I know...something truly scary...really sickening, too, yet
approved by all

Go not ONLY as a Biblical woman, but as a PRECIOUS MOMENTS version of
one!!! woo! that'd get em! hee

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], TeresaBnNC@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/6/03 5:54:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Dnowens@a...
> writes:
> There is Bathsheba; King David fell so hopelessly in love with her
he calls
> for her,

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/7/03 3:45:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dnowens@...
writes:
Where did you read it? Book, Internet, magazine??? Do tell me please!
>>>>>>

Oh, the Internet of course.. LOL. And, just a disclaimer.. I was searching
for Bathsheba, NOT sexual world records LOL.. Here is the link

http://www.world-sex-records.com/sex-077.htm

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/7/03 09:23:16 AM Central Standard Time,
TeresaBnNC@... writes:
Oh, the Internet of course.. LOL. And, just a disclaimer.. I was searching
for Bathsheba, NOT sexual world records LOL.. Here is the link

http://www.world-sex-records.com/sex-077.htm

Teresa
#########

Thanks for the link. And WOW! <g>
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/7/03 5:37:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dnowens@...
writes:
http://www.world-sex-records.com/sex-077.htm

Teresa
#########

Thanks for the link. And WOW! <g>
~Nancy
>>>

OK, I do have to admit, once I got on that web site, I had to read some of
those "world sex records".... very interesting to say the least. Some of
that stuff is pretty much common knowledge or common sense, but some of it was
pretty far out.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]