subjects
moonwindstarsky
do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids?
zenmomma2kids
>> do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids?>>We don't divide our world into "subjects." I find that what the
schools do with that is too limiting. There's not enough room to make
connections with everything else there is out there. Real life is
seldom about just science or math or history. One event or activity
can contain all those "subjects" and more.
So we cover it all, as it comes up, as it interests us, as we connect
one piece of the world to the next. I haven't yet found one "subject"
that doesn't fit in somewhere, alongside or within or about something
else.
Life is good.
~Mary
Pam Hartley
--- In [email protected],
"moonwindstarsky" <moonwindstarsky@y...> wrote:
No.
Yes.
Helpful? <g>
Unschoolers don't learn "subjects" (usually) the same way a
schooled child will. At the same time, they will certainly learn
about maths, history, the English language, foreign languages,
art, music, science, etc., in the course of their every-day or every-
year lives.
Pam H.
"moonwindstarsky" <moonwindstarsky@y...> wrote:
> do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsoryschool kids?
No.
Yes.
Helpful? <g>
Unschoolers don't learn "subjects" (usually) the same way a
schooled child will. At the same time, they will certainly learn
about maths, history, the English language, foreign languages,
art, music, science, etc., in the course of their every-day or every-
year lives.
Pam H.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/3/03 4:30:27 PM, moonwindstarsky@... writes:
<< do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids? >>
Probably, but probably not at all in the way you're thinking of it.
Even school kids don't learn all those subjects in school. Is your question
whether unschoolers present the same subject matter as the public schools do?
Very unlikely.
What schools teach that is to be found readily in everyday life, unschooled
kids learn without even realizing they're learning it.
Sandra
<< do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids? >>
Probably, but probably not at all in the way you're thinking of it.
Even school kids don't learn all those subjects in school. Is your question
whether unschoolers present the same subject matter as the public schools do?
Very unlikely.
What schools teach that is to be found readily in everyday life, unschooled
kids learn without even realizing they're learning it.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11-3-2003 5:12:20 PM Mountain Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
with that is too limiting. There's not enough room to make connections with
everything else there is out there. Real life is seldom about just science or math
or history. One event or activity can contain all those "subjects" and more.
So we cover it all, as it comes up, as it interests us, as we connect one
piece of the world to the next. I haven't yet found one "subject" that doesn't
fit in somewhere, alongside or within or about something else.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Classic example ~ Hayden (5) has been playing with numbers. He makes lists
of his *plusses* and his *take-aways* though they look a lot like worksheets,
they are his own creation and his own way of manipulating numbers. His
schooled friend came over and saw a page and commented on Hayden's *math* ~ Hayden
had the most puzzled look on his face and said, "That's not math, it's my
numbers! MOOOOM, what's math?"
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." ~ Albert
Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
>> do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids?>>We don't divide our world into "subjects." I find that what the schools do
with that is too limiting. There's not enough room to make connections with
everything else there is out there. Real life is seldom about just science or math
or history. One event or activity can contain all those "subjects" and more.
So we cover it all, as it comes up, as it interests us, as we connect one
piece of the world to the next. I haven't yet found one "subject" that doesn't
fit in somewhere, alongside or within or about something else.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Classic example ~ Hayden (5) has been playing with numbers. He makes lists
of his *plusses* and his *take-aways* though they look a lot like worksheets,
they are his own creation and his own way of manipulating numbers. His
schooled friend came over and saw a page and commented on Hayden's *math* ~ Hayden
had the most puzzled look on his face and said, "That's not math, it's my
numbers! MOOOOM, what's math?"
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." ~ Albert
Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Solich
>> We don't divide our world into "subjects." I find that what the schoolsdo with that is too limiting. There's not enough room to make connections
with everything else there is out there. Real life is seldom about just
science or math or history. One event or activity can contain all those
"subjects" and more.>>
This morning Mia was watching Cinderella. The boys walked past during the
scenes where Lucifer is chasing the mice. Jess asked if a mouse's tail was
made of bone. Good question!! So we headed for the computer and downloaded a
picture of a mouse skeleton and sent off a question at a science site. Who
would have thought that Cinderella could be "eductional"?
Jacob was playing in the sandpit a couple of days ago and asked me what
would happen if you cooked sand. I knew that people made art glass from
heating sand at really high temps but didn't think just cooking it in the
oven would do much. We tried this morning but it just stank so much we had
to stop. Oh well, we know that sand stinks when it is cooked!!!
It's not really about learning subjects as much as it is learning how to
learn. If my kids retain their curiosity and sense of wonder and are not
afraid to make mistakes and to ask questions, then I think I'll feel like
I've succeeded at unschooling.
Julie
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/3/03 05:30:17 PM Central Standard Time,
moonwindstarsky@... writes:
do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids?
############
It's kind of like asking if apples grow the same as oranges. Apples need a
different climate, different soil, different amounts of water, different
fertilizer... Not saying that schooled kids need different things than unschooled
kids, just that we approach learning in such a way as it is natural and not
divided into subjects and hours and requirements at this or that age level. So if
you ask if my daughter Moly at the age of nine, almost ten, knows her
multiplication tables like her schooled peers, then no. But she does multiplication
and division in her head that wasn't "taught" in the teacher/book/student sense.
And she doesn't call what she does multiplication or division, it is just s
omething she does. OTOH, if I were to put a worksheet of math problems in front
of her, she probably wouldn't be able to do it.
If you are asking if unschooled kids do science or history like schooled
kids, then the answer is again no. If you have been reading all the books and get
the impression that after a few months of deschooling (if your kids have been
in school) your kids will start asking for a history book or a science book,
then probably not. What does happen is that a child develops an interest in a
movie or a game and wants to learn more about the time period. So you would
then try to provide interesting books and movies and other things to help your
child. I'm going to use the movie and TV program Stargate as an example. A child
might like to watch the program and want to learn about ancient Egypt, or
space technology, or the AirForce, or aliens, or weapons and warfare. Any of
those things would "teach" a child history, math, science, or reading, but again,
not divided into those subjects. A child wouldn't see it that he was learning
history as a subject. A child would see that he was learning about what
interests him. Or they might see a TV program about lizards and amphibians and think
mud puppies look cool and want to learn more about them. In either situation,
you wouldn't hand a nine year old a third or fourth grade history or science
book to answer those questions.
If you are asking about reading, then we all have a wide variety of parents
here with children who all have read a different times in their lives. Some
didn't start until they were nine, ten, eleven, or twelve. Some started earlier.
All by the time they are teens read as well as the next. Some kids are like my
Moly who read all the time, some are like Jack who read as little as possible
and only if it is very interesting and has to do with what ever he is doing
at that point. The rest fall everywhere in between. So in that aspect
unschooled kids are just like schooled kids in their reading tastes, but unschooled
kids aren't forced or made to feel bad about being late readers or that reading
isn't their thing. And honestly we shouldn't even use the term late reader. The
child is just reading on his or her own time and terms, not late or early.
Hope that helps! :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moonwindstarsky@... writes:
do unschoolers learn the same subjects as compulsory school kids?
############
It's kind of like asking if apples grow the same as oranges. Apples need a
different climate, different soil, different amounts of water, different
fertilizer... Not saying that schooled kids need different things than unschooled
kids, just that we approach learning in such a way as it is natural and not
divided into subjects and hours and requirements at this or that age level. So if
you ask if my daughter Moly at the age of nine, almost ten, knows her
multiplication tables like her schooled peers, then no. But she does multiplication
and division in her head that wasn't "taught" in the teacher/book/student sense.
And she doesn't call what she does multiplication or division, it is just s
omething she does. OTOH, if I were to put a worksheet of math problems in front
of her, she probably wouldn't be able to do it.
If you are asking if unschooled kids do science or history like schooled
kids, then the answer is again no. If you have been reading all the books and get
the impression that after a few months of deschooling (if your kids have been
in school) your kids will start asking for a history book or a science book,
then probably not. What does happen is that a child develops an interest in a
movie or a game and wants to learn more about the time period. So you would
then try to provide interesting books and movies and other things to help your
child. I'm going to use the movie and TV program Stargate as an example. A child
might like to watch the program and want to learn about ancient Egypt, or
space technology, or the AirForce, or aliens, or weapons and warfare. Any of
those things would "teach" a child history, math, science, or reading, but again,
not divided into those subjects. A child wouldn't see it that he was learning
history as a subject. A child would see that he was learning about what
interests him. Or they might see a TV program about lizards and amphibians and think
mud puppies look cool and want to learn more about them. In either situation,
you wouldn't hand a nine year old a third or fourth grade history or science
book to answer those questions.
If you are asking about reading, then we all have a wide variety of parents
here with children who all have read a different times in their lives. Some
didn't start until they were nine, ten, eleven, or twelve. Some started earlier.
All by the time they are teens read as well as the next. Some kids are like my
Moly who read all the time, some are like Jack who read as little as possible
and only if it is very interesting and has to do with what ever he is doing
at that point. The rest fall everywhere in between. So in that aspect
unschooled kids are just like schooled kids in their reading tastes, but unschooled
kids aren't forced or made to feel bad about being late readers or that reading
isn't their thing. And honestly we shouldn't even use the term late reader. The
child is just reading on his or her own time and terms, not late or early.
Hope that helps! :o)
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/4/03 12:21:18 AM Central Standard Time,
mjsolich@... writes:
This morning Mia was watching Cinderella. The boys walked past during the
scenes where Lucifer is chasing the mice. Jess asked if a mouse's tail was
made of bone. Good question!! So we headed for the computer and downloaded a
picture of a mouse skeleton and sent off a question at a science site. Who
would have thought that Cinderella could be "eductional"?
#######
On the snack sized Snickers bars the kids got for Halloween, Dexter (from
Dexter's Laboratory) is pictured with a little quip. They say things like "The
scientific name for stinky feet is Bromhidrosis" or "85% of the population can
curl their tongue into a U" or "Your foot and your forearm (from the wrist to
the inside of your elbow) are the same length" So far, from Halloween candy, we
have called my cousin, a doctor, to ask how to say Bromhidrosis, the kids
have measured their feet and their forearms, and have entertained each other with
mirrors and curling their tongues. Cinderella and Snickers bars, both
educational.
Jacob was playing in the sandpit a couple of days ago and asked me what
would happen if you cooked sand. I knew that people made art glass from
heating sand at really high temps but didn't think just cooking it in the
oven would do much. We tried this morning but it just stank so much we had
to stop. Oh well, we know that sand stinks when it is cooked!!!
###########
A friend of my parents places lightning rods in the sand at a beach near his
home. He has some amazing lightning glass! Very beautiful!!!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mjsolich@... writes:
This morning Mia was watching Cinderella. The boys walked past during the
scenes where Lucifer is chasing the mice. Jess asked if a mouse's tail was
made of bone. Good question!! So we headed for the computer and downloaded a
picture of a mouse skeleton and sent off a question at a science site. Who
would have thought that Cinderella could be "eductional"?
#######
On the snack sized Snickers bars the kids got for Halloween, Dexter (from
Dexter's Laboratory) is pictured with a little quip. They say things like "The
scientific name for stinky feet is Bromhidrosis" or "85% of the population can
curl their tongue into a U" or "Your foot and your forearm (from the wrist to
the inside of your elbow) are the same length" So far, from Halloween candy, we
have called my cousin, a doctor, to ask how to say Bromhidrosis, the kids
have measured their feet and their forearms, and have entertained each other with
mirrors and curling their tongues. Cinderella and Snickers bars, both
educational.
Jacob was playing in the sandpit a couple of days ago and asked me what
would happen if you cooked sand. I knew that people made art glass from
heating sand at really high temps but didn't think just cooking it in the
oven would do much. We tried this morning but it just stank so much we had
to stop. Oh well, we know that sand stinks when it is cooked!!!
###########
A friend of my parents places lightning rods in the sand at a beach near his
home. He has some amazing lightning glass! Very beautiful!!!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/4/03 2:10:51 PM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< So if
you ask if my daughter Moly at the age of nine, almost ten, knows her
multiplication tables like her schooled peers, then no. But she does
multiplication
and division in her head that wasn't "taught" in the teacher/book/student
sense.
And she doesn't call what she does multiplication or division, it is just
something she does. >>
I love that with unschooled kids!!
Sometimes they have no idea if they "know their times tables" or whatever the
question is, because it's asked in school terms, yet if they get in a
situation of REALLY doing math on the spot for real purposes, my kids have without
exception been right on it, not needing help, and the school kids hesitate and
look around for pencil and paper, and by then my kids have the answer.
I was going to link an article I wrote about just this type of thing, but it
seems never to have been put on a webpage. Huh. I'll have to do that.
I'll send it here first.
Sandra
<< So if
you ask if my daughter Moly at the age of nine, almost ten, knows her
multiplication tables like her schooled peers, then no. But she does
multiplication
and division in her head that wasn't "taught" in the teacher/book/student
sense.
And she doesn't call what she does multiplication or division, it is just
something she does. >>
I love that with unschooled kids!!
Sometimes they have no idea if they "know their times tables" or whatever the
question is, because it's asked in school terms, yet if they get in a
situation of REALLY doing math on the spot for real purposes, my kids have without
exception been right on it, not needing help, and the school kids hesitate and
look around for pencil and paper, and by then my kids have the answer.
I was going to link an article I wrote about just this type of thing, but it
seems never to have been put on a webpage. Huh. I'll have to do that.
I'll send it here first.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/4/03 2:10:51 PM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< If you have been reading all the books and get
the impression that after a few months of deschooling (if your kids have been
in school) your kids will start asking for a history book or a science book,
then probably not. >>
But they will ask history or science QUESTIONS! And few books match the
internet for answering those questions.
Marty, unschooled for his whole 14 years, asked for "a map of the New Mexico
territory when Arizona was part of it" a few weeks ago. Cool! I happened to
have a book with that kind of stuff, and I knew where it was. Then we went
to a museum. Then I ordered him a map from a dealer.
It's not just: History question? Read this book.
Sandra
<< If you have been reading all the books and get
the impression that after a few months of deschooling (if your kids have been
in school) your kids will start asking for a history book or a science book,
then probably not. >>
But they will ask history or science QUESTIONS! And few books match the
internet for answering those questions.
Marty, unschooled for his whole 14 years, asked for "a map of the New Mexico
territory when Arizona was part of it" a few weeks ago. Cool! I happened to
have a book with that kind of stuff, and I knew where it was. Then we went
to a museum. Then I ordered him a map from a dealer.
It's not just: History question? Read this book.
Sandra
Heidi
but only one in 10,000 can curl the tip of their tongue back on
itself.
can you? I can! My sister, too. It's an inherited trait, and I got it
from my dad. Hey! My daughter can do it!!! yeeehaw
HeidiC
"85% of the population can
itself.
can you? I can! My sister, too. It's an inherited trait, and I got it
from my dad. Hey! My daughter can do it!!! yeeehaw
HeidiC
"85% of the population can
> curl their tongue into a U" > ~Nancy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
I am watching this happen with Katie. She is my one and only truly
across the board, 100% unschooled kid, and she can do math. We were
leafing through a sales flyer last night, and because we're being
firm with our grocery budget, she wanted to know if we could afford
some boxed sugar cereal that was on sale five for 10 bucks. Without
blinking, she knew how much per box, and I showed her how to run the
calculator to figure how much per pound (even on sale, Frosted Flakes
are over $2.50 a lb!!!)
She knew Ramen noodles at 10 for $1.00 were 10 cents each, but had to
think a minute...all in her head.
AND!!! she sees the price 2.99, and says "that's $3.00" so she's
already got consumer savvy that many people never do acquire. ;)
my Katie
Blessings, HeidiC
across the board, 100% unschooled kid, and she can do math. We were
leafing through a sales flyer last night, and because we're being
firm with our grocery budget, she wanted to know if we could afford
some boxed sugar cereal that was on sale five for 10 bucks. Without
blinking, she knew how much per box, and I showed her how to run the
calculator to figure how much per pound (even on sale, Frosted Flakes
are over $2.50 a lb!!!)
She knew Ramen noodles at 10 for $1.00 were 10 cents each, but had to
think a minute...all in her head.
AND!!! she sees the price 2.99, and says "that's $3.00" so she's
already got consumer savvy that many people never do acquire. ;)
my Katie
Blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/4/03 2:10:51 PM, Dnowens@a... writes:
>
> << So if
> you ask if my daughter Moly at the age of nine, almost ten, knows
her
> multiplication tables like her schooled peers, then no. But she
does
> multiplication
> and division in her head that wasn't "taught" in the
teacher/book/student
> sense.
> And she doesn't call what she does multiplication or division, it
is just
> something she does. >>
>
> I love that with unschooled kids!!
>
> Sometimes they have no idea if they "know their times tables" or
whatever the
> question is, because it's asked in school terms, yet if they get in
a
> situation of REALLY doing math on the spot for real purposes, my
kids have without
> exception been right on it, not needing help, and the school kids
hesitate and
> look around for pencil and paper, and by then my kids have the
answer.
>
> I was going to link an article I wrote about just this type of
thing, but it
> seems never to have been put on a webpage. Huh. I'll have to do
that.
>
> I'll send it here first.
>
> Sandra