J. Stauffer

So....I take it HSLDA supports Ms. Schaffly?
Bluck.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:06 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Digest Number 4134


>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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http://www.unschooling.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. homeschooling article
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> 2. intense focus
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> 3. Re: DH's letter to a friend about Unschooling--LONG
> From: Odrade <odrade7@...>
> 4. Re: planning my day, long and rambly
> From: arcarpenter@...
> 5. Re: Re: The Day Homeschooling Dies
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 6. Re: homeschooling article
> From: HMSL2@...
> 7. Re: intense focus
> From: Halo5964@...
> 8. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> 9. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 10. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
> 11. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> 12. Re: Even state supervision doesn't help...
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> 13. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: "Stepheny Cappel" <stephc62@...>
> 14. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: "Stepheny Cappel" <stephc62@...>
> 15. Southern California Fires
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> 16. Re: Southern California Fires
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 17. CBS Sponsors
> From: "mail_michele" <mail_michele@...>
> 18. Re: Homeschooling article
> From: "Sandra Dodd " <SandraDodd@...>
> 19. RE: Southern California Fires
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 20. Re: on playing for life
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> 21. Re: on playing for life
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> 22. RE: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 23. Re: Re: Homeschooling article
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 24. Re: Re: on playing for life
> From: "Marjorie Kirk" <mkirk@...>
> 25. Searching for words
> From: "sonyacurti" <jcurtielectric@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:28:52 EST
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> Subject: homeschooling article
>
> As I read the article (and I apologize for being so late----yahoo vs aol
is
> SOOO infuriating, plus we were OOT for four days. So sorry), I saw the
benefits
> of what he was trying to convey with the IDEA of living in the real world
as
> opposed to schooling at home or HOMEschooling. But I cringed throughout
the
> piece. It *could* be that I'm an atheist in the heart of the Bible Belt.
<BWG>
> It *could* be that because of my geographical location I'm just a bit more
> hypersensitive to "fundie-speak" than the average Joe. Could be.
>
> But even as I read it, I knew that I could probably send it to my in-laws
and
> that it might strike a cord with them. I won't, though. I couldn't in good
> faith promote *anything* along those lines. Remove the bigotry, the
hatred, the
> euphemisms, and the bold-face religious aspect, and it might work for me.
> Like I said, the overall message is good---it's the underlying CRAP that
does it
> in!
>
> But this guy has an agenda. He also leaves his website available so that
> unsuspecting folks will wander in and maybe "see the light" (just like
Sandra
> does----it's not ALL evil! <G>). On the bright side, I guess it *could*
help the
> fundies see that they DON'T have to worship Bob Jones and Abeka and
Sonlight
> and that it *could* help their children to have happier, more joyful
lives. So
> I've got to give him that.
>
> I don't believe that the article was written for *US*; his audience is
really
> right-wing, fundamentalist Christians who (in my opinion) DO need to
lighten
> up and see that learning exists in the great, big, wild, wide world
(although
> he might argue that the world shouldn't be *that* great*, *that* big,
*that*
> wild, or *that* wide!). But I'll give him credit for trying to open up
their
> "schooling" world a bit!
>
> Maybe I'll rewrite it to be more "unschoolingly politically correct". <g>
You
> notice he NEVER used that word, "unschooling"----it would put off too many
of
> his audience members! I'll work on that today and see whether it can be
> fixed. Until then, I'll definitely refrain from sending it on!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:50:15 EST
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> Subject: intense focus
>
> >>>>I can't understand why a child would claim to be addicted to
something,
> unless they somehow got the idea from someone else that they shouldn't be
> spending so much time on that activity or that that activity is somehow a
> negative thing. Would any of us ever think that our child was addicted to
> playing in the sandbox or riding their bike?<<<<
>
>
>
> There's a lot of negative talk about "addictions" that aren't really
> addictions---but rather intense focus. I believe whole-heartedly that
intense focus is
> a GOOD thing. And that they can come and go, wax and wane. Addictions
aren't
> like that.
>
> My focal points have changed over the years---at different points in my
life,
> I've been EXTREMELY focused on dogs: their breeding, training, grooming,
> showing, judging. Horses: their training, handling, grooming, racing,
tack, and
> showing. Travel. Food, parties, and entertaining. Remodeling and
decorating old
> houses. Gardening. Ancient civilizations and sociology. Astronomy. And
land
> searching. And beekeeping and alpacas. Unschooling is my main focus
now---and I
> had to throw myself into conferences for a while. Occasionally to the
> detriment of other, more minor, things.
>
> Focus is HARD for many people. And I think that maybe THEY see focus as an
> addiction. Could that be possible?
>
> Ben's most recent issue of The Wine Spectator had a full page ad with a
hand
> holding a trout. Underneath was this:
>
>
> "He never learned to fly-fish. Or play a trombone. Or waterski. Or learn
> German. Here's to 90 years of focus!
>
> Happy 90th bithday, Robert Mondavi!"
>
> Made my day! <G>
>
> Screw "well-roundedness"!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:03:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: Odrade <odrade7@...>
> Subject: Re: DH's letter to a friend about Unschooling--LONG
>
> Thanks so much for sharing that!
>
> TreeGoddess
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:20:19 EST
> From: arcarpenter@...
> Subject: Re: planning my day, long and rambly
>
> In a message dated 10/26/03 6:00:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> lrjem1@... writes:
> > Okay so what was I - mother of the year - doing? Sitting at the
computer
> > playing a stinking game while I was waiting for her to get her pjs on so
I
> > could read to her in my bed. At the time all I could/wanted to feel was
the
> > injustice of me 'having' to pander to her every whim (let's not go there
just
> > now), of 'having' to put up with her verbal and physical abuse (let's
not go
> > there yet either). All I could/wanted to think about was how I deserved
a
> > break after driving around dropping off and picking up when I could have
been
> > home doing......what??? One correct answer is 'being with Megan and
loving this
> > child who right at this moment needed something other than a big fat
pinch
> > on the arm'.
>
>
> And another answer is doing something you love to do, like brewing a
strong
> cup of coffee or reading a few pages of a book you love or yes, being at
the
> computer, venting a minute.
>
> In another post, Joyce asked me what personal boundaries I was trying to
set
> -- this was in relation to the" I'm on the verge of requiring bedtimes"
> thread. And what you've (bravely and honestly) described here is the
situation I
> need to avoid, because we've been there before. If I do too much for
others,
> past the point where I have some internal resources left for myself, then
I end
> up not being able to deal with the things that inevitably come up during
the
> day. Some alone time at the end of the day is one thing I need to do for
> myself -- some time to think my own thoughts. (The "light times" and
quiet times
> seem to be a good answer to those particular concerns.) I have gotten
*much*
> better at talking to Fisher about what I need (negotiating) instead of
trying
> to do everything that was "on the agenda."
>
> Peace,
> Amy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:00:07 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: Re: The Day Homeschooling Dies
>
>
> In a message dated 10/27/03 2:37:35 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
>
> << Elijah was the first homeschooling catalog I got when I started
>
> out and I read it cover to cover. All that stuff! And the detailed
>
> descriptions! >>
>
> One homeschooling family I knew through the SCA, I met when Kirby was one
and
> their kids ranged from 2 - 12. Five kid.
>
> Years passed, I liked the kids, one had the same birthday as I did, and
Kirby
> got to be five and then didn't go to school.
>
> Years passed, and once they all spent the weekend with us and we had a
GREAT
> time. Part of the great time involved video games, on the cutting edge
system
> the time, which was a Nintendo 64.
>
> The mom had been homeschooling by then for maybe twelve years.
> We discussed exchanging some of our information.
>
> I gave her some printouts from online discussions that I'd really liked
about
> then, a copy of the interview with me in Home Education Magazine (which I
> thought would be fun because she'd known me before I'd ever considered
> homeschooling) and a couple of little articles I had written.
>
> She gave me an Elijah Company catalog.
>
> That was it.
> I was interested in the vast array of inexpensive illustrated history
books
> (many of which I already had) but kind of appalled at the creationist
science
> and the number of religious bios (all Protestant, which ended up skewing
their
> history offerings around the Renaissance).
>
> When we next met to trade back our stuff (they needed their catalog back)
the
> dad said very testily and privately to me: "We don't need YOU to tell us
how
> to homeschool."
>
> Yah. Well. He had never been in on the original conversation.
>
> But not long after that they got a Nintendo system.
> And they loosened up on their lessons.
> And the mom eventually ran the dad off (to the other end of their rambling
> hippie property, but off from the main house).
>
> They had been living off his mental disability payments (and social
security
> and welfare), but the kids came up with a very cool magic and juggling
act,
> and some of you probably have seen them or will someday. "The Clan
Tynker."
>
> http://www.pennsic.net/entertain/clan_tynker.html
>
> At one time they had a webpage (an advertisement, not much more) but I
didn't
> find it.
>
> The girls' real names were Sarah and Mary (Biblical) but they messed with
> them (which is fine). Rebekah is the one with the same birthday as mine.
Sam is
> dating Sadie, one of the unschoolers I've talked about here sometimes, who
> has done two years of college and is off this year doing construction and
> studying karate in Santa Fe.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:13:58 EST
> From: HMSL2@...
> Subject: Re: homeschooling article
>
> What you wrote is pretty much where I was at on it. Here many HSers do
follow
> a religion and would benefit from relaxing and I agree this article was
> saying just that to them.
> I should not have forwarded it to this list and NO I dont think many if
any
> on this list need the sting (to relax) from a religious end. I do however
think
> that those who know others may benefit from some of the comments
especially
> the curriculum part. It would have been misleading for me to pick the post
> apart and send to the list but for others sake I totally would and did.
>
> Laura-Who also has not seen a yahoo email in days..today I get one?....
>
>
> <<<As I read the article (and I apologize for being so late----yahoo vs
aol
> is
> SOOO infuriating, plus we were OOT for four days. So sorry), I saw the
> benefits
> of what he was trying to convey with the IDEA of living in the real world
as
> opposed to schooling at home or HOMEschooling. But I cringed throughout
the
> piece. It *could* be that I'm an atheist in the heart of the Bible Belt.
> <BWG>
> It *could* be that because of my geographical location I'm just a bit more
> hypersensitive to "fundie-speak" than the average Joe. Could be.
>
> But even as I read it, I knew that I could probably send it to my in-laws
and
> that it might strike a cord with them. I won't, though. I couldn't in good
> faith promote *anything* along those lines. Remove the bigotry, the
hatred,
> the
> euphemisms, and the bold-face religious aspect, and it might work for me.
> Like I said, the overall message is good---it's the underlying CRAP that
does
> it
> in!
>
> But this guy has an agenda. He also leaves his website available so that
> unsuspecting folks will wander in and maybe "see the light" (just like
Sandra
> does----it's not ALL evil! <G>). On the bright side, I guess it *could*
help
> the
> fundies see that they DON'T have to worship Bob Jones and Abeka and
Sonlight
> and that it *could* help their children to have happier, more joyful
lives.
> So
> I've got to give him that.
>
> I don't believe that the article was written for *US*; his audience is
really
> right-wing, fundamentalist Christians who (in my opinion) DO need to
lighten
> up and see that learning exists in the great, big, wild, wide world
(although
> he might argue that the world shouldn't be *that* great*, *that* big,
*that*
> wild, or *that* wide!). But I'll give him credit for trying to open up
their
> "schooling" world a bit!
>
> Maybe I'll rewrite it to be more "unschoolingly politically correct". <g>
You
> notice he NEVER used that word, "unschooling"----it would put off too many
of
> his audience members! I'll work on that today and see whether it can be
> fixed. Until then, I'll definitely refrain from sending it on!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:05:07 EST
> From: Halo5964@...
> Subject: Re: intense focus
>
> In a message dated 10/27/03 10:00:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> kbcdlovejo@... writes:
>
>
> > Focus is HARD for many people. And I think that maybe THEY see focus as
an
> > addiction. Could that be possible?
> >
> >
>
> Screw "well-roundedness"!
>
> AMEN!!! I look at an addiction as something someone does repeatedly that
is
> harmful to themselves, such as drugs, over eating, etc. I read every day,
is
> that an addiction? Absolutely not. Sometimes I enjoy a book so much
that I
> will read until I am finished, do nothing else except the
> necessaries-bathroom, eating, etc. Still, not an addiction. A choice;
there's a difference.
>
> And thank you for saying "screw wellroundedness"!!! I feel the same way.
> Why should I know the price in China when (a) I'm never going there and
(b)
> don't eat it anyway. And there are many other reasons not to know the
price of
> rice in China. There are many things I don't know, and I don't feel less
of a
> person for not filling myself up with a bunch of information that I will
> eventually forget and never use anyway. What I do know, I know well, and
what I
> don't know, well, I have the internet and the library for that IF I
actually want
> to learn it!
>
> Am I getting the hang of this unschooling or what??
>
> Carol
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:51:00 -0800
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
>
> >Tia, Why is that? Phyllis Schaffley is not for testing and the dumbing
> >down of tests either. Did I say something wrong? Stepheny
>
> Oh I have no idea where she stands on homeschooling. I'm thinking of her
> beliefs about women. She did do a lot to help defeat the ERA, after all.
> Tia
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:31:58 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> Here is some of what Phyllis Schlafly has to say about homeschooling
>
> <http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2002/june02/02-06-05.shtml>
>
> It takes uncommon commitment by parents to undertake a homeschool
> regimen, but they soon discover they can do in a couple of hours what
> takes all day at regular school. Homeschooling parents can save lots
> of time since there are so many courses they don't have to teach.
>
> They don't have to teach multiculturalism, the peculiar notion that
> other cultures should be preferred to our own, or teach a course in
> Islam, such as is now taught in California schools. Homeschooling
> parents are free to teach that their religion and their country are the
> best.
>
> Homeschooling parents do not have to teach political correctness, such
> as the dogma that all academic subjects must be taught through the
> prism of gender and race oppression. They are free to teach that
> America is not a land of victims but a country of freedom and
> opportunity for all.
>
> Homeschooing parents do not have to teach the androgyny demanded by
> radical feminism. They are free to teach boys and girls separately and
> differently and let their boys enjoy plenty of recess to work off their
> excess energy and avoid giving them Ritalin to make them behave like
> girls.
>
> Homeschoolers do not have to take a course every year in Diversity, the
> code word for gay rights, as is now mandated K-12 by the California
> State Legislature. Parent educators are free to teach that it is OK to
> be judgmental about illegal and immoral acts.
>
> Homeschooling parents don't have to teach revisionist history that
> deletes mention of Washington, Jefferson and Franklin, as the New
> Jersey State Department of Education tried to do, but had to back down
> after a parental uproar. Homeschoolers have academic freedom to study
> the Founding Fathers and read the writings of the DWEMs (Dead White
> European Males) who contributed so much to Western Civilization.
>
> Homeschoolers do not have to study global education that is designed to
> promote global interdependence and citizens of the world instead of the
> U.S.A. Homeschooling parents do not have to teach Environmental
> Education fantasies such as that humans exist to serve the earth
> instead of vice versa.
>
> Homeschoolers don't have to study fuzzy math, whole math, new math, new
> new math, or rainforest math. They won't waste math time discussing,
> coloring, playing games, or telling their parents how good they feel
> about incorrect answers.
>
> Homeschooled children will learn to read using authentic phonics as
> their first order of business, so they won't have to take remedial
> reading after three years of failure. They won't be inflicted with
> Whole Language, which fraudulently teaches children to guess at words
> from the pictures, skip over difficult words, and substitute any words
> that seem to fit the context.
>
> Homeschoolers will save lots of time because they don't have to read
> typical middle school assignments of depressing modern fiction by
> "nobody" authors writing about drugs, violence, sex, runaway teens,
> witchcraft, and other depressing subjects. Homeschoolers can read
> books about heroes and stories that build character, courage,
> patriotism, and virtue.
>
> Homeschoolers won't have to spend time filling out nosy questionnaires
> about sex, drugs and suicide. The public schools are obsessed with
> asking students impudent personal questions such as how many times have
> you felt depressed and tried to commit suicide.
>
> There are many more worthless courses taught in public schools on which
> homeschoolers will not spend their precious time, such as courses in
> murder (forensics is the latest fad), suicide, death and dying,
> evolution, and self-esteem. Homeschooled students won't have any
> problem with self-esteem because their self-esteem will be earned by
> achievement in mastering the important truths of history, literature,
> math and science.
>
>
> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 09:51 AM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>
> >
> >> Tia, Why is that? Phyllis Schaffley is not for testing and the
> >> dumbing
> >> down of tests either. Did I say something wrong? Stepheny
> >
> > Oh I have no idea where she stands on homeschooling. I'm thinking of
> > her
> > beliefs about women. She did do a lot to help defeat the ERA, after
> > all.
> > Tia
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ~->
> >
> > "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> > http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:22 -0800
> From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> >>>>>Homeschooing parents do not have to teach the androgyny demanded by
> radical feminism. They are free to teach boys and girls separately and
> differently and let their boys enjoy plenty of recess to work off their
> excess energy and avoid giving them Ritalin to make them behave like
> girls>>>>>
>
> A homeschooled teen in my neighborhood is now working toward her nursing
degree. When younger, this teen was a favorite among neighborhood children
as a babysitter and also did pet sitting and had her own dog grooming
business. Her mother told me that she is so sorry she encouraged her
daughter to have goals beyond becoming a mother and a homemaker. She is now
seeing to it that her younger daughter's focus will be on home and family,
rather than on career.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:04:27 -0800
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
>
> >
> >
> >A homeschooled teen in my neighborhood is now working toward her nursing
> >degree. When younger, this teen was a favorite among neighborhood
> >children as a babysitter and also did pet sitting and had her own dog
> >grooming business. Her mother told me that she is so sorry she
encouraged
> >her daughter to have goals beyond becoming a mother and a homemaker. She
> >is now seeing to it that her younger daughter's focus will be on home and
> >family, rather than on career.
>
> So I guess the only reason these folks see to educate their girls is so
the
> girls can then homeschool their children. Sad.
> Tia
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:43:04 -0500
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> Subject: Re: Even state supervision doesn't help...
>
> Yup, Lisa Steinberg. Her adoptive father Joel & her father's girlfriend
> Hedda Nussbaum. It will stick in my head for the rest of my life.
>
> Dawn
>
> joylyn wrote:
>
> > Lisa Steinsomething.
> >
> > I have a book on her.
> >
> > She attended school every day. In retrospect, her teachers said they
> > knew something was wrong.
> >
> > Joylyn
> >
> > coyote's corner wrote:
> >
> > > Remember the NYC girl? Poor darling, I can't recall her name. Both
> > > adoptive parents were attornies, lived in a 'nice' building, attended
> > > school.
> > > murdered.
> > >
> > > Janis
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Shyrley
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 6:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Even state supervision doesn't
> > > help...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lillian Haas wrote:
> > >
> > > >This lovely family lived about two miles from me, and now people
> > in New
> > > >Jersey are worried that there will be calls for more state
> > > oversight. The
> > > >Philadelphia paper said they were "ostensibly" homeschooling, but I
> > > don't
> > > >know what they mean by that. The other local paper called them
> > > >homeschoolers, but CNN and the local TV news didn't mention it.
> > > >
> > > >The Division of Family and Youth Services case worker who was in
> > > the house
> > > >every month for two years has "resigned."
> > > >
> > > >Lillian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I never quite get why people call for *more* state oversight when a
> > > large number of cases like this are already having more oversight
than
> > > most people. The Victoria Climbie case in the Uk was the same.
> > Multiple
> > > social worker visits but still the little girl was beaten and
straved
> > > and tortured to death.
> > > And she was attending school.
> > > Sigh
> > >
> > > Shyrley
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:08:08 -0500
> From: "Stepheny Cappel" <stephc62@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> Didn't know that at all. I'll have to look that up. I was only looking
at homeschooling, public schooling and testing. Interesting. Maybe I'll
change my mind, Stepheny
>
>
>
> >Tia, Why is that? Phyllis Schaffley is not for testing and the dumbing
> >down of tests either. Did I say something wrong? Stepheny
>
> Oh I have no idea where she stands on homeschooling. I'm thinking of her
> beliefs about women. She did do a lot to help defeat the ERA, after all.
> Tia
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:11:27 -0500
> From: "Stepheny Cappel" <stephc62@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> Ohhhhh, standing corrected. Very corrected, all that is too old mind
stuff. My dd is very much too active to do dishes or cook or any " girl
stuff" much like her mom. Stepheny
>
> Here is some of what Phyllis Schlafly has to say about homeschooling
>
> <http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2002/june02/02-06-05.shtml>
>
> It takes uncommon commitment by parents to undertake a homeschool
> regimen, but they soon discover they can do in a couple of hours what
> takes all day at regular school. Homeschooling parents can save lots
> of time since there are so many courses they don't have to teach.
>
> They don't have to teach multiculturalism, the peculiar notion that
> other cultures should be preferred to our own, or teach a course in
> Islam, such as is now taught in California schools. Homeschooling
> parents are free to teach that their religion and their country are the
> best.
>
> Homeschooling parents do not have to teach political correctness, such
> as the dogma that all academic subjects must be taught through the
> prism of gender and race oppression. They are free to teach that
> America is not a land of victims but a country of freedom and
> opportunity for all.
>
> Homeschooing parents do not have to teach the androgyny demanded by
> radical feminism. They are free to teach boys and girls separately and
> differently and let their boys enjoy plenty of recess to work off their
> excess energy and avoid giving them Ritalin to make them behave like
> girls.
>
> Homeschoolers do not have to take a course every year in Diversity, the
> code word for gay rights, as is now mandated K-12 by the California
> State Legislature. Parent educators are free to teach that it is OK to
> be judgmental about illegal and immoral acts.
>
> Homeschooling parents don't have to teach revisionist history that
> deletes mention of Washington, Jefferson and Franklin, as the New
> Jersey State Department of Education tried to do, but had to back down
> after a parental uproar. Homeschoolers have academic freedom to study
> the Founding Fathers and read the writings of the DWEMs (Dead White
> European Males) who contributed so much to Western Civilization.
>
> Homeschoolers do not have to study global education that is designed to
> promote global interdependence and citizens of the world instead of the
> U.S.A. Homeschooling parents do not have to teach Environmental
> Education fantasies such as that humans exist to serve the earth
> instead of vice versa.
>
> Homeschoolers don't have to study fuzzy math, whole math, new math, new
> new math, or rainforest math. They won't waste math time discussing,
> coloring, playing games, or telling their parents how good they feel
> about incorrect answers.
>
> Homeschooled children will learn to read using authentic phonics as
> their first order of business, so they won't have to take remedial
> reading after three years of failure. They won't be inflicted with
> Whole Language, which fraudulently teaches children to guess at words
> from the pictures, skip over difficult words, and substitute any words
> that seem to fit the context.
>
> Homeschoolers will save lots of time because they don't have to read
> typical middle school assignments of depressing modern fiction by
> "nobody" authors writing about drugs, violence, sex, runaway teens,
> witchcraft, and other depressing subjects. Homeschoolers can read
> books about heroes and stories that build character, courage,
> patriotism, and virtue.
>
> Homeschoolers won't have to spend time filling out nosy questionnaires
> about sex, drugs and suicide. The public schools are obsessed with
> asking students impudent personal questions such as how many times have
> you felt depressed and tried to commit suicide.
>
> There are many more worthless courses taught in public schools on which
> homeschoolers will not spend their precious time, such as courses in
> murder (forensics is the latest fad), suicide, death and dying,
> evolution, and self-esteem. Homeschooled students won't have any
> problem with self-esteem because their self-esteem will be earned by
> achievement in mastering the important truths of history, literature,
> math and science.
>
>
> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 09:51 AM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>
> >
> >> Tia, Why is that? Phyllis Schaffley is not for testing and the
> >> dumbing
> >> down of tests either. Did I say something wrong? Stepheny
> >
> > Oh I have no idea where she stands on homeschooling. I'm thinking of
> > her
> > beliefs about women. She did do a lot to help defeat the ERA, after
> > all.
> > Tia
> >
> >
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:02:55 -0800
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> Subject: Southern California Fires
>
> Seems Southern California is copying BC this year. I just heard that some
> of our fire-fighters are going down to help. They've had lots of
experience
> this year.
> I'm just wondering about our members down there. Anybody in imminent
> danger? A couple of people on my writers list have been evacuated and
> others have written about how scary it is.
> Tia
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:50:01 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Southern California Fires
>
>
> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 04:02 PM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>
> > I'm just wondering about our members down there. Anybody in imminent
> > danger? A couple of people on my writers list have been evacuated and
> > others have written about how scary it is.
>
> We're maybe 30 to 40 miles from the closest of the fires - not in
> danger from fire, but just from the horrible air quality which is
> starting to get to us.
>
> -pam
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:07:08 -0000
> From: "mail_michele" <mail_michele@...>
> Subject: CBS Sponsors
>
> Just wanted to pass on the response I received from Kraft about
> their advertising on the CBS Evening News. Unfortunately they are
> not supportive as the makers of Claratin were (so I, for one, will
> use the power of my *purchasing dollars*!)
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for contacting us directly to tell us of your reaction to
> the CBS Evening News segment. It gives us the chance to express to
> you the thinking that guides our advertising decisions.
>
> The issues involved are tough ones, full of controversy and
> emotion. We take your comments very seriously.
>
> Kraft is always concerned about the media environment in which our
> advertising appears and we have rigorous policies governing the
> placement of our ads. We enforce ourpolicies to the best of
> our ability. From time to time, we are asked to use the power of our
> advertising dollars to intervene in the editorial policies of the
> media -- to influence newscoverage on this network or
> drive a personality off the air at that station. Each time, we
> decline,explaining that viewers and listeners are the arbiters, not
> advertisers.
>
> I hope this clarifies the situation.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:59:40 -0000
> From: "Sandra Dodd " <SandraDodd@...>
> Subject: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> -=- They won't waste math time discussing,
> coloring, playing games, or telling their parents how good they feel
> about incorrect answers.-=-
>
> That is a good one!
> Don't waste math time playing games or discussing.
>
> THIS REMINDS ME!
>
> I put a link to Pam Sorooshian's thus-far deposits of math stuff
> (warning: it's about games, largely) here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/math
>
> She has other plans for a final version, but this for-now version is
> pretty wonderful!
>
> -=-Homeschooled children will learn to read using authentic phonics as
> their first order of business, so they won't have to take remedial
> reading after three years of failure.-=-
>
> Oh, retching. Wretched retching wrenching the depths of my... (Well
> that's enough phonics humor for now.)
>
> Another thing I can put out for general reading now that the newest
> issue of Home Education Magazine is out: the column from last issue,
> "Persephonics."
>
> http://sandradodd.com/persephonics
>
> Sandra
> --------------------
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:43:12 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: RE: Southern California Fires
>
> <<We're maybe 30 to 40 miles from the closest of the fires - not in
> danger from fire, but just from the horrible air quality which is
> starting to get to us.>>
>
> We are also about 25-30 miles from the fires, although Jayn's great
> great Aunt is in Hemet near one lot of fires. The air quality is awful.
> The pool in our complex has floating ash, but that is incomparably
> trivial next to the homes and lives that have been lost. It will all
> change for us when the Santa Ana wind reverses to the more common
> offshore breezes. Thank you for asking.
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:04:21 -0000
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> Subject: Re: on playing for life
>
>
>
>
>
> > I hate housework - I'm bored to tears, sometimes literally, over
> it.
> > I'm frustrated by it and I get cranky when I have to spend time
> doing
> > it.
> >
> > My house shows the effects of my bad attitude.
>
> Yep, me too. Doing housework is BORING. I think that's one of the
> things I hate about it--the lack of mental stimulation. One thing
> that helps me sometimes is to get books on tape to listen to while
> I'm doing housework. That way my mind has something to think about
> while I'm doing the boring, boring work.
>
> Sheila
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:33:47 -0000
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> Subject: Re: on playing for life
>
> Oh, I'm appreciating this thread so much! I've read half way through
> the thread and I'm saving the rest for tomorrow. I can't wait to
> read the rest! SO much wisdom here, and fresh perspective at just
> the right time for me. :)
>
> Something I haven't seen discussed on this list before is whether or
> not anyone has ever considered hiring someone to help with
> housework? You can find people to clean for 5-10 dollars an hour.
> I've been toying with the idea...if someone came once or twice a week
> for a few hours at a time...
>
> I think about it and then I feel guilty, because I shouldn't want to
> spend money on something that I could do myself. And is that
> teaching my kids that we don't have to clean the house ourselves, and
> the fact that people might think we're snobs if we had a housekeeper,
> and.... Any thoughts?
>
> Sheila
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:56:11 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: RE: Re: Homeschooling article
>
> <<Homeschoolers don't have to study fuzzy math, whole math, new math,
> new
> new math, or rainforest math. They won't waste math time discussing,
> coloring, playing games, or telling their parents how good they feel
> about incorrect answers.>>
>
>
>
> Hey Pam, I bet this is just about your favorite part of her polemic. ;)
>
> No math games ???!!!!???!
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:40:14 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Homeschooling article
>
>
> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 07:56 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:
>
> > <<Homeschoolers don't have to study fuzzy math, whole math, new math,
> > new
> > new math, or rainforest math. They won't waste math time discussing,
> > coloring, playing games, or telling their parents how good they feel
> > about incorrect answers.>>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Pam, I bet this is just about your favorite part of her polemic. ;)
>
> Math time. As opposed to what OTHER kind of time? Anytime, all time,
> time ITSELF is math time. <G>
>
> -pam
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:45:14 -0500
> From: "Marjorie Kirk" <mkirk@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: on playing for life
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Something I haven't seen discussed on this list before is whether or
> > not anyone has ever considered hiring someone to help with
> > housework? You can find people to clean for 5-10 dollars an hour.
> > I've been toying with the idea...if someone came once or twice a week
> > for a few hours at a time...
> >
> > I think about it and then I feel guilty, because I shouldn't want to
> > spend money on something that I could do myself. And is that
> > teaching my kids that we don't have to clean the house ourselves, and
> > the fact that people might think we're snobs if we had a housekeeper,
> > and.... Any thoughts?
> >
> > Sheila
>
>
> Sheila,
>
> I have someone come to clean every other week for three hours and I love
it!
> If I could justify spending the money, I'd have her come weekly! It WAS
> hard though, at the beginning, just admitting that I couldn't (or
wouldn't)
> handle it myself. I was brought up in a family where you never admitted
you
> needed help of any kind. After I had my babies, my parents would come
visit
> for the day (to see the new baby) then go home. Mom said to me; "I know
in
> a day or two you'll be back to your old routine." So I always did what
was
> expected: Had my babies on Saturday, came home Sunday, rested on Monday,
> then life as usual started on Tuesday. But I regress....
> Anyway, when my second was born, the oldest was 2 1/2. My DH was working
60
> hours/week and traveling a LOT. After 2 months of trying to keep
everything
> done, I started wearing socks around the house all the time, because I
> couldn't stand all the crud on the floor sticking to my feet. DH finally
> said; "Why don't we just have someone come in to clean?" So we did and
I've
> never looked back. I don't feel too guilty about it because the money I
> spend saves me time that I can spend with the kids, and Maya gets more
done
> in three hours than I could do in twice that time with all the kids around
.
> Also, even if you have someone in to clean, there's still lots of cleaning
> to be done by the family. You might want to try just once a month. It
just
> gives you a week off and that could help with getting caught up with other
> projects like cleaning out closets, or the refrigerator, basement, etc...
> As for what other people might think.....you're an unschooler. You have
> already proven you can swim against the current. If other people son't
like
> it, they're probably just jealous!
>
>
> Marjorie
>
> P.S. Around here the going rate is more like $20/hour. Good luck finding
> someone cheaper!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:06:28 -0000
> From: "sonyacurti" <jcurtielectric@...>
> Subject: Searching for words
>
> Hi to all you very wise women,
>
> I know this isn't my problem (right now) but I am connect so I
> thought I would share this with all of you in hopes you could
> enlighten me with some inspiring words.
>
> My husband called his ex-wifes house to talk to the children. His ex-
> wife was at the her the end of her ropes with the children (both
> boys 15 and 11) who are doing horribly in school. She was looking
> for my husband to rescue her and like I said many times before to
> both of them is all I can do is offer to keep the boys with me to
> homeschool (unschool)them with my 7 year old son. Of course they are
> still trying to grasp the whole concept of homeschool so I don't
> scare them with the word unschool as of yet.
>
> Of course my husband would want nothing more than to have them here
> but his ex-wife is dead against it (right now anyway). She wouldn't
> get all that lovely $$ support (another story - another list). As
> for me I know they could benifit just from being out of the school
> system and it would be a BIG ADJUSTMENT but I am sure it would be a
> learning exsperoence for all. I would be willing to take on the
> challange though.
>
> We have gone through this before this many tmes and life just goes
> on and on. This time she said to my husband that she wants all four
> of us to get together and talk. I say to my husband I whole
> different philosophy on school and education why the hell would you
> want to get together and talk with me or why would I want to talk
> with you ???
>
> Anyway, I was wondering if you had any suggestions. I thought all I
> can do is offer my life style and what I believe in and they can do
> what they want with it. Does anyone have any complicated blended
> family stories to share about unschooling ?? Does anyone unschool
> their stepchildren at all ?? I thought if she is desparate she might
> take me up on the offer. I know she would never dream of doing it
> herself.
>
> Thank you ,
> Sonya
>
>
>
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