Potential new unschooler
Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
Help me out here folks!
A friend has a son who is having a very hard time in school. He's only in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets etc
(you go, guy!).
This is a very physical child, also very sweet, smart and nature oriented,
who has also been through some "stuff" and does have some social
difficulties, quick temper etc. but nothing severe or unsolvable.
I KNOW this kid could flourish outside of school (who wouldn't?). He is very
self-directed and has clear interests, few of which are covered during
indoor school hours. The parents are seriously drawn to
homeschooling/unschooling but it's very new to them and they feel
unsure/insecure, especially as the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.
A big concern the mom has is that she already feels overwhelmed and
sometimes doesn't treat her child as gently as she'd wish yells, nags etc)
and has some depression which she believes may be contributing to her son's
problems. She's worried having him full-time wouldn't be best for him but
really hates the idea of sending him to school another day where he's
miserable.
I'm feeling rather unhelpful as I mostly find myself saying things like
"AAARGH!" rather than anything coherent or intelligent when they tell me
this stuff about school. I'm too emotionally involved i think (I love this
family and really want this kid to quit school!).
Anybody have some good rational feedback to help these folks out (or rather
to help me help them out?)
Thanks!
ingrid
A friend has a son who is having a very hard time in school. He's only in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets etc
(you go, guy!).
This is a very physical child, also very sweet, smart and nature oriented,
who has also been through some "stuff" and does have some social
difficulties, quick temper etc. but nothing severe or unsolvable.
I KNOW this kid could flourish outside of school (who wouldn't?). He is very
self-directed and has clear interests, few of which are covered during
indoor school hours. The parents are seriously drawn to
homeschooling/unschooling but it's very new to them and they feel
unsure/insecure, especially as the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.
A big concern the mom has is that she already feels overwhelmed and
sometimes doesn't treat her child as gently as she'd wish yells, nags etc)
and has some depression which she believes may be contributing to her son's
problems. She's worried having him full-time wouldn't be best for him but
really hates the idea of sending him to school another day where he's
miserable.
I'm feeling rather unhelpful as I mostly find myself saying things like
"AAARGH!" rather than anything coherent or intelligent when they tell me
this stuff about school. I'm too emotionally involved i think (I love this
family and really want this kid to quit school!).
Anybody have some good rational feedback to help these folks out (or rather
to help me help them out?)
Thanks!
ingrid
[email protected]
The family sounds like they would benefit from Unschooling much more than
Traditional HS. Mom needs to work on parenting and yelling. It is hard for some
and will take lots of patience. Each family member needs their own time to feel
complete and not bitter about space or stresses like school, money and money.
I wrote money twice because that seems to be our starting stress/meltdown in
our home.
If they try to relax and let life happen their son should come around. Not to
mention many issues in school tend to disappear when the child is brought
home.
Can she join Unschooling 101?
Laura
Mom to:
Dustin 12
Cassidy 4
Nicholas 18 months
Expecting # 4 around 5/3/04
<<A friend has a son who is having a very hard time in school. He's only in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets etc
(you go, guy!).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Traditional HS. Mom needs to work on parenting and yelling. It is hard for some
and will take lots of patience. Each family member needs their own time to feel
complete and not bitter about space or stresses like school, money and money.
I wrote money twice because that seems to be our starting stress/meltdown in
our home.
If they try to relax and let life happen their son should come around. Not to
mention many issues in school tend to disappear when the child is brought
home.
Can she join Unschooling 101?
Laura
Mom to:
Dustin 12
Cassidy 4
Nicholas 18 months
Expecting # 4 around 5/3/04
<<A friend has a son who is having a very hard time in school. He's only in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets etc
(you go, guy!).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/22/03 5:50:58 PM, instinct@... writes:
<< Anybody have some good rational feedback to help these folks out (or rather
to help me help them out?) >>
You might suggest that they try it just for the rest of this year.
They'll probably be hooked.
But it's pretty hard to be too far behind for second grade. So it's not like
moving to the moon, it's like taking a vacation and going back next year (or
so it will seem to them, I bet).
<<the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.>>
He probably wouldn't HAVE the problems if he wasn't in school.
If he's not ready, he's not ready!!
Sandra
<< Anybody have some good rational feedback to help these folks out (or rather
to help me help them out?) >>
You might suggest that they try it just for the rest of this year.
They'll probably be hooked.
But it's pretty hard to be too far behind for second grade. So it's not like
moving to the moon, it's like taking a vacation and going back next year (or
so it will seem to them, I bet).
<<the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.>>
He probably wouldn't HAVE the problems if he wasn't in school.
If he's not ready, he's not ready!!
Sandra
kayb85
> Anybody have some good rational feedback to help these folks out(or rather
> to help me help them out?)I would buy her a copy of Sandra's peaceful parenting tape. I think
>
> Thanks!
> ingrid
it might be helpful to the mom. :)
Sheila
Robyn Coburn
<<A friend has a son who is having a very hard time in school. He's only
in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets
etc
(you go, guy!)...He is very self-directed and has clear interests, few
of which are covered during indoor school hours...A big concern the mom
has is that she already feels overwhelmed and sometimes doesn't treat
her child as gently as she'd wish yells, nags etc)
and has some depression which she believes may be contributing to her
son's
problems. She's worried having him full-time wouldn't be best for him
but
really hates the idea of sending him to school another day where he's
miserable.>>>
As someone else mentioned, it need not be a set-in-stone forever
decision to take him out for now. (heh,heh,heh) I think it would help to
point out to her that the specific behaviors that you mention are
totally caused by school, and by school's intrusion into his home in the
form of homework. It may help her to remember how he was at home prior
to going to school for the first time. Perhaps she feels overwhelmed
*because* she is conflicted in her heart, rather than conflicted because
she is overwhelmed.
The other idea that may help her feel more confident is that just
because he is not in school, does not mean that she has to be
responsible for filling his time 24 hours a day. I am with Jayn (now 4)
most of the time, but her Dad takes her out fairly often, and she does
ballet for an hour once a week, when I get to chat with the other hs'ing
moms at the class. Sometimes she plays with other kids. She also spends
a lot of time watching DVD's, engaging in self-directed fantasy play
with her dolls, playing computer games (minimal help needed), and doing
her craft projects. It actually surprises me how much time I get to sit
at the computer sometimes. If Jayn had a grandmother near, and not
nutty, I would have even more time.
If they are online, I would also direct them to www.naturalchild.org
<http://www.naturalchild.org/> for respectful parenting info. At any
rate I like that site, and it has helped me. That way the parenting and
the educational choices aren't intertwined. We know them as intertwined
because we are further along on the journey of Unschooling as lifestyle
choice, but it may help your friend with her worries. Gentle mindful
parenting strategies will help her regardless of whether they bring
their boy home from school or not.
<<especially as the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.>>
It's hard to let go of our ingrained respect for "experts" - ingrained
by school itself. However the teacher is hampered by both self-interest,
and his/her own biased education. What do grade school teachers get
nowadays - one semester of "child psychology" or "classroom management"
techniques designed to suppress the individual to make the group more
cohesive???? I don't know, nor is that my point. My point is that your
friends may be giving the teacher's opinion an undeserved weight simply
because of the habit of a lifetime and the teacher's status as an
expert. Your friends are the experts in their son.
Was it Mary or Anne speaking at the conference about how she had an
epiphany when she asked the school principal what the school's goals
were for her child? Maybe these parents need to examine what the
teacher's goals are, implied or explicit, for their son. Are they goals
they would *want* to support? Are they goals that require school, and
only school, to achieve them? Are they goals that only relate to school
(e.g. ability to work quietly in a large group not of his choosing, on a
project not of his choosing, for a time frame not of his choosing). I
think the teacher is betraying ignorance and bias just by the use of the
label of "his" social "problems". If they are social problems by
definition wouldn't the group be at least partly to "blame"? Perhaps
she/he is feeling like a failure and can't deal with it. "Never" is a
pretty portentous word, a pretty final word, a pretty definitive word to
use in reference to a six or seven year old. I guess none of us have
ever changed in our personality or actions or likes or social abilities
since we were six, so it is clear that these are the most crucial years
to mold him to a fitting cog in the machine. Oh now I'm just getting
irritated with that dopey teacher, much like you wanting to say
"aarrrggghh!"
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in
grade one but having lots of "behaviour problems"--lashing out at other
kids, refusing to do schoolwork, throwing stuff, ripping up math sheets
etc
(you go, guy!)...He is very self-directed and has clear interests, few
of which are covered during indoor school hours...A big concern the mom
has is that she already feels overwhelmed and sometimes doesn't treat
her child as gently as she'd wish yells, nags etc)
and has some depression which she believes may be contributing to her
son's
problems. She's worried having him full-time wouldn't be best for him
but
really hates the idea of sending him to school another day where he's
miserable.>>>
As someone else mentioned, it need not be a set-in-stone forever
decision to take him out for now. (heh,heh,heh) I think it would help to
point out to her that the specific behaviors that you mention are
totally caused by school, and by school's intrusion into his home in the
form of homework. It may help her to remember how he was at home prior
to going to school for the first time. Perhaps she feels overwhelmed
*because* she is conflicted in her heart, rather than conflicted because
she is overwhelmed.
The other idea that may help her feel more confident is that just
because he is not in school, does not mean that she has to be
responsible for filling his time 24 hours a day. I am with Jayn (now 4)
most of the time, but her Dad takes her out fairly often, and she does
ballet for an hour once a week, when I get to chat with the other hs'ing
moms at the class. Sometimes she plays with other kids. She also spends
a lot of time watching DVD's, engaging in self-directed fantasy play
with her dolls, playing computer games (minimal help needed), and doing
her craft projects. It actually surprises me how much time I get to sit
at the computer sometimes. If Jayn had a grandmother near, and not
nutty, I would have even more time.
If they are online, I would also direct them to www.naturalchild.org
<http://www.naturalchild.org/> for respectful parenting info. At any
rate I like that site, and it has helped me. That way the parenting and
the educational choices aren't intertwined. We know them as intertwined
because we are further along on the journey of Unschooling as lifestyle
choice, but it may help your friend with her worries. Gentle mindful
parenting strategies will help her regardless of whether they bring
their boy home from school or not.
<<especially as the teacher is saying that this child will
never learn to overcome his social problems if he's not in school.>>
It's hard to let go of our ingrained respect for "experts" - ingrained
by school itself. However the teacher is hampered by both self-interest,
and his/her own biased education. What do grade school teachers get
nowadays - one semester of "child psychology" or "classroom management"
techniques designed to suppress the individual to make the group more
cohesive???? I don't know, nor is that my point. My point is that your
friends may be giving the teacher's opinion an undeserved weight simply
because of the habit of a lifetime and the teacher's status as an
expert. Your friends are the experts in their son.
Was it Mary or Anne speaking at the conference about how she had an
epiphany when she asked the school principal what the school's goals
were for her child? Maybe these parents need to examine what the
teacher's goals are, implied or explicit, for their son. Are they goals
they would *want* to support? Are they goals that require school, and
only school, to achieve them? Are they goals that only relate to school
(e.g. ability to work quietly in a large group not of his choosing, on a
project not of his choosing, for a time frame not of his choosing). I
think the teacher is betraying ignorance and bias just by the use of the
label of "his" social "problems". If they are social problems by
definition wouldn't the group be at least partly to "blame"? Perhaps
she/he is feeling like a failure and can't deal with it. "Never" is a
pretty portentous word, a pretty final word, a pretty definitive word to
use in reference to a six or seven year old. I guess none of us have
ever changed in our personality or actions or likes or social abilities
since we were six, so it is clear that these are the most crucial years
to mold him to a fitting cog in the machine. Oh now I'm just getting
irritated with that dopey teacher, much like you wanting to say
"aarrrggghh!"
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
> As someone else mentioned, it need not be a set-in-stone foreverYes, Sandra mentioned taking him out for the rest of the year. I think this
> decision to take him out for now. (heh,heh,heh)
feels like such a huge decision for the parents. I was thinking of
suggesting just keeping him home for a week, and maybe I'm just overly
optimistic or something but I was thinking that by then they'd already be
hooked! :-)
Perhaps she feels overwhelmed
> *because* she is conflicted in her heart, rather than conflicted becauseGood point. One thing that is especially hard is that the parents are being
> she is overwhelmed.
pressured by the school to back up the "discipline" when the parents don't
give a shit about the worksheets and the silly rules. But they still have
this thought that the boy needs to learn "respect"--hmmm... i think i need
to point out that respect is learned when one feels repected...
> If they are online, I would also direct them to www.naturalchild.orgGreat site. Jan is a friend and a lovely person. I'll pass that on.
> <http://www.naturalchild.org/> for respectful parenting info.
Gentle mindful
> parenting strategies will help her regardless of whether they bringYes.
> their boy home from school or not.
Thanks for the helpful thoughts and further questions to help figure this
out. I heard the dad speak out in defense of his son today and feel
confident this little boy is going to be supported to rise out sooner or
later.
ingrid