[email protected]

(just thought some of you might like to read the NCHE position on this
report)


North Carolinians for Home Education
4326 Bland Road
Raleigh, NC 27609-6125
(919) 790-1100

PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- October 14, 2003HOMESCHOOLERS:   SEND CBS NEWS BACK
TO THE BOOKS

(RALEIGH) -- An "Eye on America" segment in the October 13 edition of The CBS
Evening News suggested that a tragic murder-suicide in a rural county two
years ago was somehow evidence of the "dark side" of home-schooling.
Correspondent Vince Gonzales portrayed home education as a haven for potential abusers and
worse. In fact, the Warren family -- whose 14-year-old son killed two
teen-aged siblings and then himself in July 2001 -- had chosen to duck North
Carolina's homeschool law. CBS News could show no evidence that the Warrens were
typical of homeschoolers, or that this senseless tragedy would have been averted by
more educational regulations.

WHAT CBS OVERLOOKED

In North Carolina, homeschooling has grown from a few dozen families in 1984
to nearly 29,000 this year. Considering there are well over 100,000 N.C.
parents and children in home education today, a two-year-old tragedy involving a
single family -- already in trouble -- is so rare and remarkable that it defies
logical connection.

There are other facts which CBS failed to mention; for example, there were
already numerous child protection laws and regulations on the books that state
agencies could have used to safeguard the Warren children. Social Services had
not only contacted the family on numerous occasions -- they had already
removed the children from the home for a time. In spite of all the laws and agencies
in place and involved, the system was still not able to prevent the deaths of
these children. And besides that, long before the tragedy occurred, the
family had consciously dropped out of compliance with the homeschool statute, and
from that point on they were simply truant from the public school system.

Given then a truant family, with a criminal record in another state, already
reported to Social Services by their neighbors and receiving regular contact
from them -- how many rules, how many systems, how much intervention does it
take to prevent an unpredictable and senseless tragedy?

If a family chooses to disregard the law entirely, how could more rules help?


And how can such a singular case guide policy toward 100,000 other citizens
who comply with the existing law?

THE REAL STORY

The real story is that homeschooling is a proven path to educational
achievement and preparation for adulthood and citizenship -- without government
funding, assistance, or direction. Our organization, North Carolinians for Home
Education, has a twenty-year history of service to the homeschool community. Tens
of thousands of parents and students have attended our conferences, seminars,
and other events, and we are privileged to know large numbers of these
families personally. And we know that first-hand observation confirms the reports of
numerous scholars and researchers -- these are strong, active, and law-abiding
families, producing a generation of bright and sociable graduates --
well-equipped for college, career, or families of their own.

( CONTINUED )

The case highlighted by CBS News was not a matter of educational choice, but
of murder and suicide -- motive unknown -- and something far more serious than
whether students learn phonics, or which algebra book they use, or even
whether taught by their parents or by government-certified educators.

When one family has chosen to disregard the law, there is no logic to
tightening a regulatory vice on 29,000 North Carolina families that do play by the
rules.

And using old news to suggest that parents who desire the freedom to choose
their children's schooling arrangements are part of a sinister pattern of
abuse, neglect, and worse -- to coin a phrase, it simply doesn't add up. Maybe CBS
News should review their notes.

#####

FOLLOW UP CONTACTS:

CBS Evening News:  evening@...
Viewer comment lines: (212) 975-3247 or (212) 975-4321
"Eye On America" Story Date:  October 13, 2003
Correspondent:  Vince Gonzales
Producer:  Barbara Pierce

North Carolinians for Home Education
(919) 790-1100 or http://nche.com
President Hal Young president@...

CBS Evening News program sponsors
See the page of links at http://nche.com
##########

North Carolinians for Home Education was founded in 1984 to promote
homeschooling as an excellent educational alternative, to protect the right to
homeschool in North Carolina, and to provide support and encouragement for families
interested in home education. For twenty years, thousands of North Carolina
homeschoolers have joined member-supported NCHE for information, assistance,
networking, and more. To find out more, contact our Raleigh office at (919)
790-1100, e-mail us at NCHE@..., or visit our website, http://nche.com

Contact: Hal Young, President -- President@... or (919) 790-1100





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<< Correspondent Vince Gonzales portrayed home education as a haven for
potential abusers and worse. >>

I didn't watch the story, but those were my first concerns about
homeschooling. As a former teacher of adolescent kids, I knew that a lot of extended
absences were for bruises to go away. What if they never had to come to school
but could just keep on hitting them?

There was one girl whose dad was having sex with her. There was another girl
whose adult cousin was. What if they never had school as a place for people
to discover that? There are probably people here who make statements about
things being none of the state's business a lot, but everytime I hear something
like that I think of how convenient homeschooling is for people who are
heartless toward children.

And we share their niche and reputation to some extent.
We aid and abet them unwillingly.

Sandra

Melanie Freisinger deGonzalez

<And we share their niche and reputation to some extent.
We aid and abet them unwillingly.>

Hi
I am new to this list but been unschooling my 9 year old son for a few years.
I cried as I read this post, Sandra. I feel it might be worth some regulation just to be able to protect the children who are being abused and must feel so alone. No one knows and no one cares.
Don't have any brilliant ideas but wanted to share these feelings.
Thanks
melanie

SandraDodd@... wrote:

<< Correspondent Vince Gonzales portrayed home education as a haven for
potential abusers and worse. >>

I didn't watch the story, but those were my first concerns about
homeschooling. As a former teacher of adolescent kids, I knew that a lot of extended
absences were for bruises to go away. What if they never had to come to school
but could just keep on hitting them?

There was one girl whose dad was having sex with her. There was another girl
whose adult cousin was. What if they never had school as a place for people
to discover that? There are probably people here who make statements about
things being none of the state's business a lot, but everytime I hear something
like that I think of how convenient homeschooling is for people who are
heartless toward children.

And we share their niche and reputation to some extent.
We aid and abet them unwillingly.

Sandra



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 08:54 AM, Melanie Freisinger
deGonzalez wrote:

> I feel it might be worth some regulation just to be able to protect
> the children who are being abused and must feel so alone. No one knows
> and no one cares.

Those children were IN THE HANDS of social services and returned to
their parents. The parents were previously convicted of child abuse.
That news report should have been about how social services failed
those children. And maybe a side note about how it is clear that
regulating homeschooling is a misplaced effort since that family in
North Carolina, where they already do have more homeschool regulations
in place than many other states, wasn't even in compliance with their
current regulations. What good would even more regulations do?

It is sad. It is tragic. It isn't a homeschooling issue.

catherine aceto

But the problem is that the homeschool regulations don't address the issue
of abuse -- even in the highly regulated states (like PA where I live) you
are at most, required to see an evaluator once a year (and I think you can
even do the evaluation by phone). The state might step in if your 16 yo
can't read, it won't have any information as to whether she is having sex
with her father.

And the people in the CBS story (as I understand it from second-hand email
reports) weren't complying with the regulations already in place and WERE
already under the notice of the appropriate social services agencies which
weren't doing anything.

Is the only solution (and one that clearly doesn't work all the time) to
have daily government inspections....er...indoctrination...er..
education....?

-Cat



----- Original Message -----
From: "Melanie Freisinger deGonzalez" <gonzalezpalace5@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] CBS News Report: NCHE press release on
this report


<And we share their niche and reputation to some extent.
We aid and abet them unwillingly.>

Hi
I am new to this list but been unschooling my 9 year old son for a few
years.
I cried as I read this post, Sandra. I feel it might be worth some
regulation just to be able to protect the children who are being abused and
must feel so alone. No one knows and no one cares.
Don't have any brilliant ideas but wanted to share these feelings.
Thanks
melanie

SandraDodd@... wrote:

<< Correspondent Vince Gonzales portrayed home education as a haven for
potential abusers and worse. >>

I didn't watch the story, but those were my first concerns about
homeschooling. As a former teacher of adolescent kids, I knew that a lot of
extended
absences were for bruises to go away. What if they never had to come to
school
but could just keep on hitting them?

There was one girl whose dad was having sex with her. There was another girl
whose adult cousin was. What if they never had school as a place for people
to discover that? There are probably people here who make statements about
things being none of the state's business a lot, but everytime I hear
something
like that I think of how convenient homeschooling is for people who are
heartless toward children.

And we share their niche and reputation to some extent.
We aid and abet them unwillingly.

Sandra



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away." -Elvis Presley














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 12:04:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gonzalezpalace5@... writes:

> I feel it might be worth some regulation just to be able to protect the
> children who are being abused and must feel so alone

The family shown from NC were not complying with current state laws governing
homeschooling how would any additional laws have helped. Those would have
been ignored as well.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melanie Freisinger deGonzalez

Thanks. That helps. I realize things are going to happen no matter how strict things are, but I feel so helpless and wish something could be done.
melanie
genant2@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/14/03 12:04:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gonzalezpalace5@... writes:

> I feel it might be worth some regulation just to be able to protect the
> children who are being abused and must feel so alone

The family shown from NC were not complying with current state laws governing
homeschooling how would any additional laws have helped. Those would have
been ignored as well.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

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�Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain�t going away.� -Elvis Presley














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 10:11:44 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< It is sad. It is tragic. It isn't a homeschooling issue. >>

If homeschoolers totally deny the possibility, though, it's just our
ignorance.


My main irritation with Bowling for Columbine is that of all the stretches of
"logic" taken to try to explain school shootings, school itself was just
about spared!! SCHOOLS CAUSE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, not video games, not parents, not
Lockheed missile plants, not George Bush. The only person on that
"documentary" who said "schools" was Matt Stone, one of the South Park creators/artists.

Someone saying school shootings are not the school's fault is probably
telling the truth by one definition of "fault" (whole and unshared fault), but
homeschooling CAN (and I would bet anything does) hide abuse, and those who want to
abuse can (thanks to the work of many people like us) and some do homeschool.

The one family discussed on the news was one that had lots of contact with
social services. We can't ethically tie a bow around them and say "exception,
not a homeschooling issue, they're the only ones."

They're probably not the only ones.

We can't solve that problem, but I don't think totally burying it is right
either.

At some point the fulcrum point is crossed, and the rhetoric which protects
our rights to privacy could create a little too much privacy for bad guys.

Sandra

pam sorooshian

On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 09:32 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> If homeschoolers totally deny the possibility, though, it's just our
> ignorance.

The possibility of what? That children get mistreated by the adults who
should be caring for them?

THAT nobody is denying.

The only thing I'm denying is that ncreasing homeschooling regulations
will help the situation.

If I thought that imposing regulations on homeschoolers would help, I'd
be first to lobby for such regulations. I WISH that all it would take
would be the rest of us willing to have our kids tested once a year or
report our curriculum to the local school district. I'd support it IF I
thought there was a chance that any child would be protected from
abusive parents because of it.

Unfortunately, it isn't going to work. Law-abiding homeschoolers will
have to bear the burden of excessive regulations while abusive parents
will hide their kids just like they do now.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 10:30:16 AM, aceto3@... writes:

<< s the only solution (and one that clearly doesn't work all the time) to

have daily government inspections....er...indoctrination...er..

education....? >>

No. My personal wish is that all the homeschoolers who might ever talk to
anyone outside of other homeschoolers will just be aware that there are
separatist, crazed, gun-toting, snake-handling, neglectful, abusive homeschoolers so
that they never make the embarrassing mistake of saying that anyone who would
think there ARE such things are idiots.

It's like that famous rhetorical three-legged dog. I've seen three different
real-life and functional three-legged dogs now without even trying, over my
lifetime. It seemed really important to me to explain to my children the
importance of three-legged dogs.

The importance of three-legged dogs is this: Any statement that says all
dogs have four legs is false. MOST dogs have four legs is true.

Any statement that says all homeschoolers love their children and have open
liberal ideas about exposing their children to all the best the world has to
offer is false. A statement that says MOST homeschoolers love their children
and have open liberal ideas about exposing their children to all the best the
world has to offer is probably still true, if we accept that "the Christian
Homeschooling movement" think the best the world has to offer stops with the good
parts of the Bible and their statement of faith group.

I'm not asking for more laws. I'm not recommending spot inspections.

I'm asking homeschoolers to be aware and honest in their own hearts.

I'm asking them to be honest where it could come to investigative reporters.
Stating emphatically that there are no three legged dogs is just an
invitation for a TV special on the history of the cover-up of three legged dogs, film
at 11:00, companion booklet available to schools.



Sandra

Shyrley

genant2@... wrote:

>In a message dated 10/14/03 12:04:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gonzalezpalace5@... writes:
>
>
>
>>I feel it might be worth some regulation just to be able to protect the
>>children who are being abused and must feel so alone
>>
>>
>
>The family shown from NC were not complying with current state laws governing
>homeschooling how would any additional laws have helped. Those would have
>been ignored as well.
>Pam G
>
>
>
And the sad truth is, the majority of kids who are abused go to school.
Harassed teachers with 30+ kids fail to pick it up or they don't care or
the child is already known to social services, like Victoria Climbie in
London, who fail to prevent their deaths or abuse.
Short of having a social worker live with each family, school or
not-school wont make any difference :-(

Shyrley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

>
> My main irritation with Bowling for Columbine is that of all the
stretches of
> "logic" taken to try to explain school shootings, school itself
was just
> about spared!! SCHOOLS CAUSE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, not video games,
not parents, not
> Lockheed missile plants, not George Bush. The only person on that
> "documentary" who said "schools" was Matt Stone, one of the South
Park creators/artists.
>
> > Sandra

I have not had a chance to see this and would like to. One major
issue that I felt was not dealt with enough after the shootings was
that of bullies. It was mentioned but never explored in detail,
maybe for the reason of not blaming the victims (the other
students). This is understandable, but personally I felt shooters
behavior was largely created by daily abuse from other students. If
humiliated enough, eventually you lash out. It is horrible their
pain was not seen MUCH earlier. If it had, possibly interventions
years before could have stopped their anger. NOt to say in any way,
their behavior was excusable or justifiable. Instead to say that
this is another case where children were abused within the walls of
schools and here is an extreme case of what can happen when there is
are no guidelines in place to moniter and deal with bullying
behavior. This is certainly a much more common occurance than
abusive homeschooling parents. Also, we do not see news reports
claiming the need for more government regualtions on parents whose
children have been caught bullying in schools.

I also agree with some other posters. These people were not
technically homeschoolers. If you are not complying with any
regualtions than you are turant, that should have been picked up by
soical services earlier and the children should have been checked
for that reason. If you do not comply with homeschool regualtions,
I would think it would be the social workers who would be given your
case therefore making it an entirely different department. I do not
feel I should carry the burden of such people anymore than when I
was a teacher did I feel I would be clumped into a catagory of
teachers that abused their children (i.e. a case just a few weeks
ago in Miami where a teacher and assistant used duct tape to tape
the mouths of offending kindergardeners.)

Olga :)

Olga

>
> I'm not asking for more laws. I'm not recommending spot
inspections.
>
> I'm asking homeschoolers to be aware and honest in their own
hearts.
>
> I'm asking them to be honest where it could come to investigative
reporters.
> Stating emphatically that there are no three legged dogs is just
an
> invitation for a TV special on the history of the cover-up of
three legged dogs, film
> at 11:00, companion booklet available to schools.
>
>
>
> Sandra


I agree that no one should walk around and claim all homeschoolers
are great. Maybe, it is better to say some parents are abusive
instead of some homeschooling parents abusive. It rellly does not
matter which group they fall into because they belong to every group
out there. I agree there are some loony, extreme homeschoolers out
there just like there are extreme, loony parents who send their
children to private and public schools.

I realize you know all this. I just think the unbrella
of "homeschooling" is far less relevant than the umbrella
of "parent" when discussing abuse. I wish going to school
guarenteed abuse being noticed. I wish reporting abuse guarenteed
something being done. Just MO.

Olga :)

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 11:43:56 AM, mccluskieo@... writes:

<< If you are not complying with any

regualtions than you are turant, that should have been picked up by

soical services earlier and the children should have been checked

for that reason. >>

My kids are technically truant. <g>

If social services came to inquire about them up I'd fill out a form and say
"okay, now not truant."

<< I do not

feel I should carry the burden of such people anymore than when I

was a teacher did I feel I would be clumped into a catagory of

teachers that abused their children (i.e. a case just a few weeks

ago in Miami where a teacher and assistant used duct tape to tape

the mouths of offending kindergardeners.)>>

Unless you were to publicly say teachers don't do that, or that all teachers
love the students and treat them with the utmost gentle respect.

-=-Maybe, it is better to say some parents are abusive

instead of some homeschooling parents abusive. It rellly does not

matter which group they fall into because they belong to every group

out there. -=-

That's true.

-=- I wish going to school

guarenteed abuse being noticed. I wish reporting abuse guarenteed

something being done. -=-

Yeah. Those points would be good to make if people talk about abuse and
homeschooling.
There are lots of parents, too, who seem to totally neglect their kids, think
school will pick up all the slack--breakfast, social support, sex ed, moral
guidance, art and music. And for every one of them, there's another parent
saying "It's not your place to tell my kid what's right or wrong."

So some kids are neglected at home AND neglected at school, and that's so sad
I have to go do something happier (and I hear three teenaged boys gathering
up stuff to take to the gaming shop, so it's time to go drive people around
anyway).

Sandra

Sandra

[email protected]

Pam's point goes to the heart of what's wrong with most school reform
and accountability, btw. With most political positions. And with most diets. <
g>

If there were one answer that really worked for everyone and for
society, there would only be one answer. No one would debate it or argue that it
was wrong.

And no one would be ignorant, unemployed, fat, abused, poor or
unloved.

But whatever it is that one wishes to foster or prevent, there is NO
clear answer that works for all individuals, or for society generally.
Thinking for oneself comes about as close to a silver bullet for all these problems
as anything ever proposed. And by THAT logic, the unschooling philosophy is a
much better bet to bring about any social good than regulation and inspection,
standardization, compulsion, or the Cult of the Do-Gooder. JJ



pamsoroosh@... writes:


> I'd support it IF I
> thought there was a chance that any child would be protected from
> abusive parents because of it.
>
> Unfortunately, it isn't going to work. Law-abiding homeschoolers will
> have to bear the burden of excessive regulations while abusive parents
> will hide their kids just like they do now.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

It's so obviously not a family's educational choice -- whatever it may
be -- that ever "causes" the abuse. I've noticed the most frequent
explanation over decades of news stories and criminal court coverage is potty accidents.
Yet I've not hear anyone suggest that new toilet regulations, inspections or
training accountability programs would end child abuse. Most news coverage is
very formulaic and the scripts don't change much over time, just the details.
JJ

shyrley@... writes:


> And the sad truth is, the majority of kids who are abused go to school.
> Harassed teachers with 30+ kids fail to pick it up or they don't care or
> the child is already known to social services, like Victoria Climbie in
> London, who fail to prevent their deaths or abuse.
> Short of having a social worker live with each family, school or
> not-school wont make any difference :-(
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**It's so obviously not a family's educational choice -- whatever it may
be -- that ever "causes" the abuse. I've noticed the most frequent
explanation over decades of news stories and criminal court coverage is potty
accidents.
Yet I've not hear anyone suggest that new toilet regulations, inspections or
training accountability programs would end child abuse.**

Last year there was a mother in Illinois who killed one of her sons and
seriously injured the other, sometime in the evening after having accompanied one
of them on his school field trip. No one suggested schools abolish field trips
because they might spur the parent chaperones to violence (except me,
perhaps.)

The North Carolina case makes people feel helpless and angry - especially
because the parents seem to have "gotten away with it".

Deborah in IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 1:27:49 PM, dacunefare@... writes:

<< No one suggested schools abolish field trips
because they might spur the parent chaperones to violence (except me,
perhaps.)
>>

Since school is so much a part of the fabric of life now, and people think
there's no option, it's not mentioned as a factor.

Homeschooling, though, being not only an option but an inconvenient option,
just glows and glares.

If someone's Catholic and robs a filling station nobody's going to say "A
5'10" Catholic man robbed the Texaco..."

If there's something unusual about him, though, THEN it's going to be
mentioned.

A Mormon missionary on a bicycle robbed the Texaco...
That will make news.

A 4'2" man with satanic symbols tattooed on his neck robbed the Texaco at
gunpoint. Yeah. Then his height and apparent religion might be interesting.

So for now, being a homeschooler is like being a dishonest missionary or a
Satanic midget (little person of an anti-Christian persuasion).

For years if someone did something AND was in the SCA, we'd hear about it.

Years passed, and being in the SCA just wasn't worth mentioning anymore. It
was too common, and not seen as a factor that would drive people to stick
knives in each other's doors or to threaten a gas-company meter reader with a
rattan sword. (That one was reported without SCA mention, but we all knew what a
duct-taped piece of rattan was.)

D&D used to be worth of mention too. If a kid's car swerved off the road and
dice fell out, they'd mention he was a reclusive D&D player.

Homeschooling will pass as an identifying factor, I think. Give it just
about enough years that all OUR kids are grown up. :-/

Sandra

Crystal

I just had to gripe here. My daughter regularly role plays online
with other kids. She's made good friends with one girl in
Pennsylvania who's also 13 and one in Georgia who's 17. When she's
not online role playing, she's anxiously waiting by the phone for the
time when they are home from school so she can call them. Today the
17 yo's mother told Erica that she is not allowed to talk to her
friend anymore because of the age difference! She is so disappointed
about it. Erica emailed her friend and told her what her mother said
and that she thought that was mean. I would take her out for ice
cream, except that we just got back from getting ice cream.

Crystal

storyteller

While the title of the feature, "the dark side of homeschooling" was
certainly aggravating, and apparently some key factors were left out, in
all fairness, Dan Rather did introduce the piece by saying that majority
of homeschoolers are successful and the parents are doing a good job...
(followed by the feature that has everyone so upset..)

Some of the arguments being made are a little similar to the nra
arguments against gun regulations. Do I want more hsing regs? No, of
course not. But as Sandra has pointed out, we can't pretend that there
isn't a tiny minority who act very badly. I don't know what the solution
is.. social services and the public schools can't handle the work load
they have now - even with more regs, that won't help. And we certainly
don't want them overseering homeschooling, any more than they already
do. And in this particular story, these people weren't unknown to the
authorities.

To me, the worst thing cbs did was the title. The intro at least let
people know that this was in no way typical of homeschooling, but imho,
the damage was already done by the title itself.

I think there's another installment on tonight. <sigh>. Too bad they
don't plan to balance it out with the good of homeschooling, or that the
problems they are highlighting are in no way exclusive to homeschooling.

susan


On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 04:47 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> For years if someone did something AND was in the SCA, we'd hear about
> it.
>
> Years passed, and being in the SCA just wasn't worth mentioning
> anymore. It
> was too common, and not seen as a factor that would drive people to
> stick
> knives in each other's doors or to threaten a gas-company meter reader
> with a
> rattan sword. (That one was reported without SCA mention, but we all
> knew what a
> duct-taped piece of rattan was.)
>
> D&D used to be worth of mention too. If a kid's car swerved off the
> road and
> dice fell out, they'd mention he was a reclusive D&D player.
>
> Homeschooling will pass as an identifying factor, I think. Give it just
> about enough years that all OUR kids are grown up. :-/
>
> Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
>For years if someone did something AND was in the SCA, we'd hear about it.
>
>Years passed, and being in the SCA just wasn't worth mentioning anymore. It
>was too common, and not seen as a factor that would drive people to stick
>knives in each other's doors or to threaten a gas-company meter reader with a
>rattan sword. (That one was reported without SCA mention, but we all knew
>what a
>duct-taped piece of rattan was.)

SCA was mentioned, along with homeschooling, when Jay Handel murdered his 6
children last year to get back at his wife for the affair he thought she
was having, and for her asking for a divorce.
Tia

liza sabater

Nope. Tonight it got worse. They ended the segment with how many states
do not ask for intent to homeschool, do not require any kind of
professional certification from parent and, get this, DO NOT DO ANY
CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS on parents who intend to homeschool. And, of
course, there was the advocate against child abuse saying that, since
nobody watches them the way kids in school are watched, nobody really
knows how many cases of abuse and neglect happen amongst homeschoolers.

This was probable the UGLIEST news report I have seen at CBS in years.



On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 05:14 PM, storyteller wrote:

> While the title of the feature, "the dark side of homeschooling" was
> certainly aggravating, and apparently some key factors were left out,
> in
> all fairness, Dan Rather did introduce the piece by saying that
> majority
> of homeschoolers are successful and the parents are doing a good job...
> (followed by the feature that has everyone so upset..)
>
> Some of the arguments being made are a little similar to the nra
> arguments against gun regulations. Do I want more hsing regs? No, of
> course not. But as Sandra has pointed out, we can't pretend that there
> isn't a tiny minority who act very badly. I don't know what the
> solution
> is.. social services and the public schools can't handle the work load
> they have now - even with more regs, that won't help. And we certainly
> don't want them overseering homeschooling, any more than they already
> do. And in this particular story, these people weren't unknown to the
> authorities.
>
> To me, the worst thing cbs did was the title. The intro at least let
> people know that this was in no way typical of homeschooling, but imho,
> the damage was already done by the title itself.
>
> I think there's another installment on tonight. <sigh>. Too bad they
> don't plan to balance it out with the good of homeschooling, or that
> the
> problems they are highlighting are in no way exclusive to
> homeschooling.
>
> susan
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 04:47 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>>
>> For years if someone did something AND was in the SCA, we'd hear about
>> it.
>>
>> Years passed, and being in the SCA just wasn't worth mentioning
>> anymore. It
>> was too common, and not seen as a factor that would drive people to
>> stick
>> knives in each other's doors or to threaten a gas-company meter reader
>> with a
>> rattan sword. (That one was reported without SCA mention, but we all
>> knew what a
>> duct-taped piece of rattan was.)
>>
>> D&D used to be worth of mention too. If a kid's car swerved off the
>> road and
>> dice fell out, they'd mention he was a reclusive D&D player.
>>
>> Homeschooling will pass as an identifying factor, I think. Give it
>> just
>> about enough years that all OUR kids are grown up. :-/
>>
>> Sandra
>
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catherine aceto

Oh - ok. Yeah, I agree with you there. I didn't realize that anyone doubted the existence of "separatist, crazed, gun-toting, snake-handling, neglectful, abusive homeschoolers." But then I grew up in southern west virginia. ; - )

-Cat

I'm asking them to be honest where it could come to investigative reporters.
Stating emphatically that there are no three legged dogs is just an
invitation for a TV special on the history of the cover-up of three legged dogs, film
at 11:00, companion booklet available to schools.



Sandra

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

This is from HSLDA . I'm sending it here in case anybody wants to use
some of the information from it - if you're writing to CBS. The first
is something they wrote to homeschooling leaders and that is followed
by their weekly "e-lert" which goes to HSLDA members or anybody who
subscribes to it. (Note - I'm not promoting HSLDA, just passing along
possibily useful info.)

-pam

From: "Chris Klicka"
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:26 PM
Subject: Urgent Alert to call CBS Evening News about Home
SchoolingSmear


> Dear Home School Leaders,
>
> As you heard, CBS Evening News last night and tonight, has
inaccurately
> and unprofessionally linked home schooling to child abuse and
murder.
> The Report is called "The Dark Side of Home Schooling."
>
> This is the worst reporting on home schooling I have seen during my
18
> years at HSLDA.
>
> HSLDA was contacted a few times by reporter Barbara Pierce from the
Los
> Angeles office of CBS. However, they chose not to interview us
after we
> gave them extensive evidence of the abuse of innocent home
schoolers by
> the child welfare system. They had a very different "slant" in mind.
>
> Yesterday, we contacted Barbara Pierce after we obtained the
transcript
> and pointed out the damaging innuendos linking home schooling to
child
> abuse. We asked her to change various parts of the Report, but to
no
> avail.
>
> Therefore, we believe this outrage cannot go without HUGE response
from
> the home school community.
>
> Below is our elert from Michael Smith that we sent out a few minutes
> ago urging everyone to contact CBS to express your feelings.
>
> All the controls on home schooling we have fought hard to remove
these
> last 20 years could not have stopped this killing. Certified
teachers,
> home visits, curriculum approval, state assessments, or portfolio
> reviews could not have stopped this tragedy. Not even mandatory
public
> schooling could stop it. Suicide is an epidemic in the public
schools.
> The National Crime Survey found that 1.9 million students are
victims of
> violent crime yearly including rape, murder, assault, and robbery.
(See
> Chapter Two of my book, "Home Schooling: The Right Choice" for
extensive
> documentation.)
>
> Over the last 10 years, HSLDA only has record of 10 murders
associated
> with so-called home schoolers. In all cases, the social workers knew
> about the abuse in the family but dropped the ball.
>
> This CBS Report is very unbalanced.
>
***********HSLDA's E-lert******************
> Dear HSLDA Members and friends:
>
> CBS National News ran a negative homeschooling report last night
> titled "The Dark Side of Homeschooling" and will run a further
report
> this evening. The reports focus on a handful of child abuse cases
> during the past 5 to 10 years involving families claiming to be
> homeschoolers.
>
> Last night's segment discussed the murder of Kyle, 13, and Marnie
> Warren, 19, by their brother Brandon, 14, and his subsequent
suicide.
> The Warren family is from Johnston County North Carolina.
>
> To view the CBS story go to:
> http://www.hslda.org/elink.asp?ID=1139
>
> Missing from the CBS story was that: Social Services had contacted
> the family eleven times, were well aware of the condition of the
home
> and had been working with the family.
>
> However, to any fair-minded reader the story leaves the impression
> that homeschooling equals child abuse.
>
> We are outraged that CBS would ignore the obvious facts and draw the
> erroneous conclusion that homeschoolers need to be strictly
> regulated. The story is a shameless attempt to smear an entire
> community of committed, dedicated parents.
>
> The real story is CBS's bias against homeschooling and it is using
> this distorted story to encourage the regulation of homeschoolers.
>
> Please call Viacom (parent company of CBS) and CBS to express your
> opposition to the biased reporting and smear campaign against
> homeschooling. Highlight the fact that homeschooling was not the
> cause of the childrens' deaths and that you expect CBS to have
higher
> journalistic standards.
>
>
> Viacom President and CEO - Mel Karmazin
> P - 212-258-6000
>
>
> CBS Evening News - LA Bureau
> P - (323) 575-2202
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> J. Michael Smith
> HSLDA President

Tia Leschke

>Nope. Tonight it got worse. They ended the segment with how many states
>do not ask for intent to homeschool, do not require any kind of
>professional certification from parent and, get this, DO NOT DO ANY
>CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS on parents who intend to homeschool. And, of
>course, there was the advocate against child abuse saying that, since
>nobody watches them the way kids in school are watched, nobody really
>knows how many cases of abuse and neglect happen amongst homeschoolers.

I know how to solve the problem. Only parents who have teaching
certificates and pass a criminal records check each year can keep their
kids. Everyone else has to give them to the state at birth to protect them
until they're grown. %^ (
Tia

sluror

Hey that's almost exactly what I was thinking but I think they should
take ALL the children, you can't trust the teachers either.
Everyone knows only uncle sam trully has our best interests in mind
and can protect all from every evil.

Sharon

> I know how to solve the problem. Only parents who have teaching
> certificates and pass a criminal records check each year can keep
their
> kids. Everyone else has to give them to the state at birth to
protect them
> until they're grown. %^ (
> Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/14/03 4:32:57 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< SCA was mentioned, along with homeschooling, when Jay Handel murdered his
6
children last year to get back at his wife for the affair he thought she
was having, and for her asking for a divorce. >>

I guess that's why Keith recommended I shouldn't watch TV for a while.
I took his word for it and so missed the whole thing.

Good for me.

(Actually I had heard something about it by e-mail and someone had asked me
if I knew him or something, but I've become pretty good at tuning out
sensationalistic family disasters. When I was younger I was fascinated.)

Sandra

coyote's corner

I swear - this is becoming more & more a police state. We really need to take the power back - we need to get out and vote these jackasses out of office. I know that many of these folks aren't elected - but if we get the greedy, manipulative jerks out - the others will lose much of their power.
I also told CBS that I would be boycotting the advertisers of the show and I'll be telling the advertisers that....hell...I may boycott CBS! Perhaps we could go to the petition site - circulate it and send it to CBS. We could demand that they present the real facts of homeschooling.

janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: CBS News Report: NCHE press release on this report



>Nope. Tonight it got worse. They ended the segment with how many states
>do not ask for intent to homeschool, do not require any kind of
>professional certification from parent and, get this, DO NOT DO ANY
>CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS on parents who intend to homeschool. And, of
>course, there was the advocate against child abuse saying that, since
>nobody watches them the way kids in school are watched, nobody really
>knows how many cases of abuse and neglect happen amongst homeschoolers.

I know how to solve the problem. Only parents who have teaching
certificates and pass a criminal records check each year can keep their
kids. Everyone else has to give them to the state at birth to protect them
until they're grown. %^ (
Tia


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

Think that's what happened to the Bush girls?
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: sluror
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:32 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: CBS News Report: NCHE press release on this report


Hey that's almost exactly what I was thinking but I think they should
take ALL the children, you can't trust the teachers either.
Everyone knows only uncle sam trully has our best interests in mind
and can protect all from every evil.

Sharon

> I know how to solve the problem. Only parents who have teaching
> certificates and pass a criminal records check each year can keep
their
> kids. Everyone else has to give them to the state at birth to
protect them
> until they're grown. %^ (
> Tia


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"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Janis,

That's not a bad idea. They may not show the story, but imagine
their reactions and the sponser's reactions if they got a petition
with thousands of names?

Olga :)

! Perhaps we could go to the petition site - circulate it and send
it to CBS. We could demand that they present the real facts of
homeschooling.
>
>