OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
[email protected]
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins. One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins. One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Kathryn,
I am so sorry that this is so. Please, turn your anger into action...together we can defeat this evil that is feeding upon us.
GWB & his minions must be fired - all of them. That is the first step towards security & safety for all of us - be we gay, committed, Christian, pagan, adult, child....
Janis & Brianna
"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crises, maintain their neutrality." Dante
I am so sorry that this is so. Please, turn your anger into action...together we can defeat this evil that is feeding upon us.
GWB & his minions must be fired - all of them. That is the first step towards security & safety for all of us - be we gay, committed, Christian, pagan, adult, child....
Janis & Brianna
"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crises, maintain their neutrality." Dante
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins. One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal.pina
I'm sorry about this, Kathryn. If it helps any, WE still like you. And, I
didn't vote for Bush. I voted for the other guy, what's-his-name.
Crystal
********************
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except
that HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
family's life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay
Couples Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and
anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
didn't vote for Bush. I voted for the other guy, what's-his-name.
Crystal
********************
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except
that HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
family's life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay
Couples Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and
anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
Shyrley
crystal.pina wrote:
Mind you, I'm doing the cowardly 'fleeing the country' type thing. I
think our elections must be soon and we can vote Bleurgh out in favour
of...ummm....aarrrrggggggghh they are all the same!
Ian Duncan-Smith - conservative, rich, double barrel name and right wing
or
Charles Kennedy - has anyone ever actually *seen* this guy who leads the
3rd party that never wins.
Sigh. I hear Canada is nice :-)
Shyrley
>I'm sorry about this, Kathryn. If it helps any, WE still like you. And, IThe one who really won ya mean?
>didn't vote for Bush. I voted for the other guy, what's-his-name.
>
>
>
Mind you, I'm doing the cowardly 'fleeing the country' type thing. I
think our elections must be soon and we can vote Bleurgh out in favour
of...ummm....aarrrrggggggghh they are all the same!
Ian Duncan-Smith - conservative, rich, double barrel name and right wing
or
Charles Kennedy - has anyone ever actually *seen* this guy who leads the
3rd party that never wins.
Sigh. I hear Canada is nice :-)
Shyrley
Mary Rainer
-----
Im not suppose to post here yet, first two weeks moderated and all that jazz so sue me...
I just gotta say
Im pissed and my kids will be too, good topic for HS discussion w/ my kids
thankyou for sharing K.
off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except
that HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
family's life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay
Couples Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and
anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Im not suppose to post here yet, first two weeks moderated and all that jazz so sue me...
I just gotta say
Im pissed and my kids will be too, good topic for HS discussion w/ my kids
thankyou for sharing K.
off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except
that HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
family's life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay
Couples Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and
anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
Kathryn,
I don't know much about this..can you clue me in please?
Olga :)
I don't know much about this..can you clue me in please?
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], KathrynJB@a... wrote:
> This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic,
except that
> HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
family's
> life...so I want to share.
>
> Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew
Shephard's
> death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President
Bush, begins. One
> person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed
Gay Couples
> Week."
>
> I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness
and anger....
>
> Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>It is, but we have our idiot politicians here as well.
>
>Sigh. I hear Canada is nice :-)
%^ (
Tia
Tia Leschke
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Kathryn &
>
>Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
>death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush,
>begins. One
>person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
>Week."
>
>I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Beth}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/03 10:49:49 AM, leschke@... writes:
<< It is, but we have our idiot politicians here as well. >>
Well if they have sexy accents and you can buy posters of them from when they
played hockey, that beats most of ours right off.
Well not "beats them off," I mean...
Well, if they want to.
It's a couple of more or less free countries. <g>
Sandra
<< It is, but we have our idiot politicians here as well. >>
Well if they have sexy accents and you can buy posters of them from when they
played hockey, that beats most of ours right off.
Well not "beats them off," I mean...
Well, if they want to.
It's a couple of more or less free countries. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/03 07:34:54 AM Central Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
######################
I don't think this is off topic. I don't understand how we can have a
constitution that plainly states that we have freedom of religion, the right to
pursue happiness, and that all men are created equal and not allow someone to
marry, not allow someone equal protection. We also have sexual discrimination laws
yet here we are, no better than before. Heterosexual people don't get married
all the time and they have more *couple* rights! I had friends who actually
had to get a divorce, even though they never married, she never used his name
... the law said they were married but you can't. Talk about backwards, asinine,
oxymoronic crap to me! And that makes me sad too.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins.
One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
######################
I don't think this is off topic. I don't understand how we can have a
constitution that plainly states that we have freedom of religion, the right to
pursue happiness, and that all men are created equal and not allow someone to
marry, not allow someone equal protection. We also have sexual discrimination laws
yet here we are, no better than before. Heterosexual people don't get married
all the time and they have more *couple* rights! I had friends who actually
had to get a divorce, even though they never married, she never used his name
... the law said they were married but you can't. Talk about backwards, asinine,
oxymoronic crap to me! And that makes me sad too.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicolas and Madeline Donck; Rains
Blechhh! What a %$^%&^&(*)_***#$@ ass he is! I am so sorry that you
are affected personally by this, as are many of my friends. I guess this
can't help but influence state to state decisions about legalizing same sex
marriage?
Madeline
At 08:33 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
are affected personally by this, as are many of my friends. I guess this
can't help but influence state to state decisions about legalizing same sex
marriage?
Madeline
At 08:33 AM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
>life...so I want to share.
>
>Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
>death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush,
>begins. One
>person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
>Week."
>
>I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
>
>Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Tia Leschke
><< It is, but we have our idiot politicians here as well. >>Well French accents are always sexy. But I'm trying to think of a
>
>Well if they have sexy accents and you can buy posters of them from when they
>played hockey, that beats most of ours right off.
politician who used to play hockey. I thought it was you guys who elected
all the celebrities.
>Well not "beats them off," I mean...Snort! Good thing I'd finished my coffee before I read that.
>
>
>Well, if they want to.
>It's a couple of more or less free countries. <g>
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/03 2:20:50 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< But I'm trying to think of a
politician who used to play hockey. I thought it was you guys who elected
all the celebrities. >>
I thought ALL Canadians had played hockey!
They don't have to be celebrity hockey players, like Michael J. Fox or Mike
Myers. <bwg>
Sandra
<< But I'm trying to think of a
politician who used to play hockey. I thought it was you guys who elected
all the celebrities. >>
I thought ALL Canadians had played hockey!
They don't have to be celebrity hockey players, like Michael J. Fox or Mike
Myers. <bwg>
Sandra
storyteller
On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 08:33 AM, KathrynJB@... wrote:
heterosexual couples who supported same-sex marriages began to refer to
their spouses as "partner" instead of husband or wife, it might help
change attitudes. Language is so powerful. He liked it. He thinks the
government should get out of the marriage business altogether. That
"marriage" should be something religious organizations do, and the
government should only recognize "civil unions" and it shouldn't matter
who the two adults are. I honestly fail to see how what another couple
does has any bearing on my marriage. Or perhaps I should say union.
hugs to you and your partner from me and my partner.
susan, partner to matt for fourteen years
> This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic,hubby and I were discussing this recently -- I had wondered if those
> except that
> HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling
> family's
> life...so I want to share.
>
> Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
> death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush,
> begins. One
> person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay
> Couples
> Week."
>
> I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and
> anger....
>
> Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
heterosexual couples who supported same-sex marriages began to refer to
their spouses as "partner" instead of husband or wife, it might help
change attitudes. Language is so powerful. He liked it. He thinks the
government should get out of the marriage business altogether. That
"marriage" should be something religious organizations do, and the
government should only recognize "civil unions" and it shouldn't matter
who the two adults are. I honestly fail to see how what another couple
does has any bearing on my marriage. Or perhaps I should say union.
hugs to you and your partner from me and my partner.
susan, partner to matt for fourteen years
Crystal
hubby and I were discussing this recently -- I had wondered if those
heterosexual couples who supported same-sex marriages began to refer
to their spouses as "partner" instead of husband or wife, it might
help change attitudes. Language is so powerful. He liked it. He
thinks the government should get out of the marriage business
altogether. That "marriage" should be something religious
organizations do, and the government should only recognize "civil
unions" and it shouldn't matter who the two adults are. I honestly
fail to see how what another couple does has any bearing on my
marriage. Or perhaps I should say union.
hugs to you and your partner from me and my partner.
susan, partner to matt for fourteen years>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I agree that the language we use is powerful. To me married means
that you are legally bound together, but there is a huge amount of
difference in the amount that a married couple works together. If
someone is your Partner then the connotation is that they are working
together with you toward a certain goal. That is not always the case
in a marriage. Sometimes people are just married to their husband or
wife and they are each working separately toward their own goals. Ya
know?
Crystal
heterosexual couples who supported same-sex marriages began to refer
to their spouses as "partner" instead of husband or wife, it might
help change attitudes. Language is so powerful. He liked it. He
thinks the government should get out of the marriage business
altogether. That "marriage" should be something religious
organizations do, and the government should only recognize "civil
unions" and it shouldn't matter who the two adults are. I honestly
fail to see how what another couple does has any bearing on my
marriage. Or perhaps I should say union.
hugs to you and your partner from me and my partner.
susan, partner to matt for fourteen years>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I agree that the language we use is powerful. To me married means
that you are legally bound together, but there is a huge amount of
difference in the amount that a married couple works together. If
someone is your Partner then the connotation is that they are working
together with you toward a certain goal. That is not always the case
in a marriage. Sometimes people are just married to their husband or
wife and they are each working separately toward their own goals. Ya
know?
Crystal
aicitticia
IMHO...The word Partner is first to elicit the meaning of
commoraderie. It implies cooperation too. Marriage in my mind
implies a combining of, a joining of (for lack of better words).
I don't know if this is the way most or anyone thinks or even if the
dictionary proves my idea wrong. It is too bad that the strong
public connotation of the words has led to SUCH differing beliefs.
Ticia
commoraderie. It implies cooperation too. Marriage in my mind
implies a combining of, a joining of (for lack of better words).
I don't know if this is the way most or anyone thinks or even if the
dictionary proves my idea wrong. It is too bad that the strong
public connotation of the words has led to SUCH differing beliefs.
Ticia
nellebelle
I had a friend when I was about junior high age. (early 70s) She had a slumber party every year for her birthday. Her parents were divorced. Her aunt lived in the house, and I knew that her mother and aunt shared a bed. It wasn't until years later that I learned they were gay, not sisters. My mom knew all along, but never said anything about it to me at the time and let me go to their house whenever I was invited. When we finally talked about it years later, my mom was very matter of fact and accepting. I'm sure it must have affected my feelings about gay couples, that my mom didn't make an issue of it. So, that is one thing I learned from my mom - that some couples are the same sex and that's normal.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Rainer
ok, wanting to make sure I understand
- not knowing that your friend's mom was gay for many years after middle school -rather, believing some incorrect assumption...helped you to 'normalize' it?
Please forgive what may come accross as...offensive, I am new here and even if I wasn't (new) I assure you, attacking is not my line, promise.
but something isnt sitting right here, with me anyways,
and its not about gay, good/bad/normal or anything controversial,
its about being open and honest with my kids...about MY feelings...and allowing my kids to have feelings of their own about the subject, objectively, and to do that, they would have to KNOW what the subject is...
Avoiding entirely the issue of normalcy, and other potential controversies I would suggest an example;
every time you have ever seen a bowl of fruit it contained apples and bananas, you have seen green, yellow and red apples, and bananas in many fruit bowls, all of your friends have them on their tables, in their dining rooms, apples and bananas.
Your best friend had a green looking roundish object in her bowl, with her banana, her mother always referred to the bowl as the bowl, and your mother never said anything, never brought attention to it, you knew she had seen it,and it was sitting in front of everyone- on the dining table. You assumed it was an apple,
Later you found out it was an avacado, and your mom was very matter of fact and accepting. This helped you to understand that avacados are normal.
ummm
ok,
please do not hesitate to share with me if I am wayyy out of place.
thanks,mary
- not knowing that your friend's mom was gay for many years after middle school -rather, believing some incorrect assumption...helped you to 'normalize' it?
Please forgive what may come accross as...offensive, I am new here and even if I wasn't (new) I assure you, attacking is not my line, promise.
but something isnt sitting right here, with me anyways,
and its not about gay, good/bad/normal or anything controversial,
its about being open and honest with my kids...about MY feelings...and allowing my kids to have feelings of their own about the subject, objectively, and to do that, they would have to KNOW what the subject is...
Avoiding entirely the issue of normalcy, and other potential controversies I would suggest an example;
every time you have ever seen a bowl of fruit it contained apples and bananas, you have seen green, yellow and red apples, and bananas in many fruit bowls, all of your friends have them on their tables, in their dining rooms, apples and bananas.
Your best friend had a green looking roundish object in her bowl, with her banana, her mother always referred to the bowl as the bowl, and your mother never said anything, never brought attention to it, you knew she had seen it,and it was sitting in front of everyone- on the dining table. You assumed it was an apple,
Later you found out it was an avacado, and your mom was very matter of fact and accepting. This helped you to understand that avacados are normal.
ummm
ok,
please do not hesitate to share with me if I am wayyy out of place.
thanks,mary
----- Original Message -----
From: nellebelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
I had a friend when I was about junior high age. (early 70s) She had a slumber party every year for her birthday. Her parents were divorced. Her aunt lived in the house, and I knew that her mother and aunt shared a bed. It wasn't until years later that I learned they were gay, not sisters. My mom knew all along, but never said anything about it to me at the time and let me go to their house whenever I was invited. When we finally talked about it years later, my mom was very matter of fact and accepting. I'm sure it must have affected my feelings about gay couples, that my mom didn't make an issue of it. So, that is one thing I learned from my mom - that some couples are the same sex and that's normal.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
I don't know which American Indian used this term - but I love it!!
Side-by
as in side by side.
Janis
Side-by
as in side by side.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: aicitticia
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 9:59 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
IMHO...The word Partner is first to elicit the meaning of
commoraderie. It implies cooperation too. Marriage in my mind
implies a combining of, a joining of (for lack of better words).
I don't know if this is the way most or anyone thinks or even if the
dictionary proves my idea wrong. It is too bad that the strong
public connotation of the words has led to SUCH differing beliefs.
Ticia
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
that's so cool!!
Bless your mom!
Janis
Bless your mom!
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: nellebelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
I had a friend when I was about junior high age. (early 70s) She had a slumber party every year for her birthday. Her parents were divorced. Her aunt lived in the house, and I knew that her mother and aunt shared a bed. It wasn't until years later that I learned they were gay, not sisters. My mom knew all along, but never said anything about it to me at the time and let me go to their house whenever I was invited. When we finally talked about it years later, my mom was very matter of fact and accepting. I'm sure it must have affected my feelings about gay couples, that my mom didn't make an issue of it. So, that is one thing I learned from my mom - that some couples are the same sex and that's normal.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Rainer
I read this differently. I read it as if her mom didn't make a big deal about
it one way or another -- that this was a family she visited, and it happened
to be a same-sex couple. It's likely they weren't out (since the other woman
was referred to as an "aunt"), and that it wouldn't, at the time, be
appropriate to share with her daughter, "Oh, they're lesbians."
Kathryn
Rereading I can see that could very well be, open mouth insert feet...
becoming aware of my own feelings onthe subject in the past have caused me to reevaluate my 'openmindedness' and perhaps I assume far too quickly everyone else isnt as open minded as they think they are-because I realized I wasnt (at some point in the past but now I am completely openminded about everything and perfect -in case I forgot to mention it, hahahahaha did I mention I tend to be sarcastic?)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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it one way or another -- that this was a family she visited, and it happened
to be a same-sex couple. It's likely they weren't out (since the other woman
was referred to as an "aunt"), and that it wouldn't, at the time, be
appropriate to share with her daughter, "Oh, they're lesbians."
Kathryn
Rereading I can see that could very well be, open mouth insert feet...
becoming aware of my own feelings onthe subject in the past have caused me to reevaluate my 'openmindedness' and perhaps I assume far too quickly everyone else isnt as open minded as they think they are-because I realized I wasnt (at some point in the past but now I am completely openminded about everything and perfect -in case I forgot to mention it, hahahahaha did I mention I tend to be sarcastic?)
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Kelly Lenhart
>It's likely they weren't out (since the other womanRight. I got that impression, too. Remember, this was the 70's. That
>was referred to as an "aunt"), and that it wouldn't, at the time, be
>appropriate to share with her daughter, "Oh, they're lesbians."
>Kathryn
couple probably used the term aunt. Her mom respected that and never made a
deal out of it.
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/13/03 3:59:22 AM, mom@... writes:
<< and its not about gay, good/bad/normal or anything controversial,
its about being open and honest with my kids...about MY feelings...and
allowing my kids to have feelings of their own about the subject, objectively, and
to do that, they would have to KNOW what the subject is... >>
If two people live together, they do.
There's no reason to discuss another couple's sex lives with our children.
<<You assumed it was an apple,
Later you found out it was an avacado, and your mom was very matter of fact
and accepting. This helped you to understand that avacados are normal.>>
If you find out years later that housemates you knew who were both female or
both male were in a committed relationship which might or might not have
included sex, meaning that the relationship was more important than the location of
the house (if they moved they would have BOTH moved, which can also happen
with non-coupled housemates, but still...), that does NOT say an apple was an
avocado.
It says not all apples are "red delicious."
When my kids have known of a heterosexual couple I haven't said "AND they
have sex."
They know enough that they know they're sharing a house and a car.
Kids don't need to know more.
In a family in which heterosexual friends are uncommented upon but a gay
couple either doesn't exist in that life (parents shun/avoid/have no connection
with "those people), OR if the parents make a big deal (they're gay), that's not
going to produce the same calm awareness that being matter-of-fact and casual
does.
A friend of mine I've known since she was nine is now grown, 30's, in a
longterm committed relationship with another woman.
When she was younger and discovering she was lesbian, after a heterosexual
relationship I knew about before, during and after, she came and talked to me
for a long time, VERY afraid of telling her parents (people I'd known before I
knew her, and still hung out with, and still do now). I mentioned by name an
older (now retired) couple they also socialized with, who were another
committed lesbian couple and said beause of that I didn't think it would entirely
shock them, and maybe she could talk to those women (good friends of hers).
It was interesting to see the light of realization come over her. She'd
never considered that they were "a couple," they were just them! People she liked
and knew.
The first wedding my kids ever went to was a lesbian wedding.
It doesn't have to be a big deal. You don't have to "be honest" to the point
of making more of something than it is, in a child's eyes. And "what it is"
is a special bond between two people.
Sandra
<< and its not about gay, good/bad/normal or anything controversial,
its about being open and honest with my kids...about MY feelings...and
allowing my kids to have feelings of their own about the subject, objectively, and
to do that, they would have to KNOW what the subject is... >>
If two people live together, they do.
There's no reason to discuss another couple's sex lives with our children.
<<You assumed it was an apple,
Later you found out it was an avacado, and your mom was very matter of fact
and accepting. This helped you to understand that avacados are normal.>>
If you find out years later that housemates you knew who were both female or
both male were in a committed relationship which might or might not have
included sex, meaning that the relationship was more important than the location of
the house (if they moved they would have BOTH moved, which can also happen
with non-coupled housemates, but still...), that does NOT say an apple was an
avocado.
It says not all apples are "red delicious."
When my kids have known of a heterosexual couple I haven't said "AND they
have sex."
They know enough that they know they're sharing a house and a car.
Kids don't need to know more.
In a family in which heterosexual friends are uncommented upon but a gay
couple either doesn't exist in that life (parents shun/avoid/have no connection
with "those people), OR if the parents make a big deal (they're gay), that's not
going to produce the same calm awareness that being matter-of-fact and casual
does.
A friend of mine I've known since she was nine is now grown, 30's, in a
longterm committed relationship with another woman.
When she was younger and discovering she was lesbian, after a heterosexual
relationship I knew about before, during and after, she came and talked to me
for a long time, VERY afraid of telling her parents (people I'd known before I
knew her, and still hung out with, and still do now). I mentioned by name an
older (now retired) couple they also socialized with, who were another
committed lesbian couple and said beause of that I didn't think it would entirely
shock them, and maybe she could talk to those women (good friends of hers).
It was interesting to see the light of realization come over her. She'd
never considered that they were "a couple," they were just them! People she liked
and knew.
The first wedding my kids ever went to was a lesbian wedding.
It doesn't have to be a big deal. You don't have to "be honest" to the point
of making more of something than it is, in a child's eyes. And "what it is"
is a special bond between two people.
Sandra
Mary Rainer
that all makes alot of sense
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joylyn
It is cool that your mom saw nothing wrong with the situation, but the
facts are, the couple still had to hide their relationship. one had to
be the aunt. How sad to have to hide your love for another.
Joylyn
coyote's corner wrote:
facts are, the couple still had to hide their relationship. one had to
be the aunt. How sad to have to hide your love for another.
Joylyn
coyote's corner wrote:
> that's so cool!![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Bless your mom!
> Janis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nellebelle
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
>
>
> I had a friend when I was about junior high age. (early 70s) She
> had a slumber party every year for her birthday. Her parents were
> divorced. Her aunt lived in the house, and I knew that her mother and
> aunt shared a bed. It wasn't until years later that I learned they
> were gay, not sisters. My mom knew all along, but never said anything
> about it to me at the time and let me go to their house whenever I was
> invited. When we finally talked about it years later, my mom was very
> matter of fact and accepting. I'm sure it must have affected my
> feelings about gay couples, that my mom didn't make an issue of it.
> So, that is one thing I learned from my mom - that some couples are
> the same sex and that's normal.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
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>
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nellebelle
>>>>It is cool that your mom saw nothing wrong with the situation, but thefacts are, the couple still had to hide their relationship. one had to
be the aunt. How sad to have to hide your love for another>>>>
It wasn't completely hidden, if my mom knew about it. My mom worked in the same hospital as the aunt. I remember my friend showing me their bedroom that had one large bed in it. I have no idea what my friend knew about the relationship at that time, but she didn't feel she had to hide their bedroom from her friends. Maybe my friend knew, but didn't know how to talk about it. Maybe she hoped that I would ask questions about the one bed. Didn't occur to me at the time, although it is a tidbit that has stuck in my memory.
However, I agree that it would be great if nobody had to hide their love from anyone, ever.
Mary Ellen
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Andrea
At 10:34 AM 10/11/03 -0400, Shyrley wrote:
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030730sam0730p1.asp
Though we did come down and burn your White House a while back.
Donna in Nova Scotia
>Sigh. I hear Canada is nice :-)It's better than nice! You might be interested in this column:
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030730sam0730p1.asp
Though we did come down and burn your White House a while back.
Donna in Nova Scotia
>It's not just the weather that's cooler in Canada
>
>Wednesday, July 30, 2003
>
>You live next door to a clean-cut, quiet guy. He never plays loud music or
>throws raucous parties. He doesn't gossip over the fence, just smiles
>politely and offers you some tomatoes. His lawn is cared-for, his house is
>neat as a pin and you get the feeling he doesn't always lock his front
>door. He wears Dockers. You hardly know he's there.
>
>And then one day you discover that he has pot in his basement, spends his
>weekends at peace marches and that guy you've seen mowing the yard is his
>spouse.
>
>Allow me to introduce Canada.
>
>The Canadians are so quiet that you may have forgotten they're up there,
>but they've been busy doing some surprising things. It's like discovering
>that the mice you are dimly aware of in your attic have been building an
>espresso machine.
>
>Did you realize, for example, that our reliable little tag-along brother
>never joined the Coalition of the Willing? Canada wasn't willing, as it
>turns out, to join the fun in Iraq. I can only assume American diner menus
>weren't angrily changed to include "freedom bacon," because nobody here
>eats the stuff anyway.
>
>And then there's the wild drug situation: Canadian doctors are authorized
>to dispense medical marijuana. Parliament is considering legislation that
>would not exactly legalize marijuana possession, as you may have heard,
>but would reduce the penalty for possession of under 15 grams to a fine,
>like a speeding ticket. This is to allow law enforcement to concentrate
>resources on traffickers; if your garden is full of wasps, it's smarter to
>go for the nest rather than trying to swat every individual bug. Or, in
>the United States, bong.
>
>Now, here's the part that I, as an American, can't understand. These poor
>benighted pinkos are doing everything wrong. They have a drug problem:
>Marijuana offenses have doubled since 1991. And Canada has strict gun
>control laws, which means that the criminals must all be heavily armed,
>the law-abiding civilians helpless and the government on the verge of a
>massive confiscation campaign. (The laws have been in place since the
>'70s, but I'm sure the government will get around to the confiscation
>eventually.) They don't even have a death penalty!
>
>And yet ... nationally, overall crime in Canada has been declining since
>1991. Violent crimes fell 13 percent in 2002. Of course, there are still
>crimes committed with guns -- brought in from the United States, which has
>become the major illegal weapons supplier for all of North America -- but
>my theory is that the surge in pot-smoking has rendered most criminals too
>relaxed to commit violent crimes. They're probably more focused on
>shoplifting boxes of Ho-Hos from convenience stores.
>
>And then there's the most reckless move of all: Just last month, Canada
>decided to allow and recognize same-sex marriages. Merciful moose, what
>can they be thinking? Will there be married Mounties (they always get
>their man!)? Dudley Do-Right was sweet on Nell, not Mel! We must be the
>only ones who really care about families. Not enough to make sure they all
>have health insurance, of course, but more than those libertines up north.
>
>This sort of behavior is a clear and present danger to all our stereotypes
>about Canada. It's supposed to be a cold, wholesome country of polite,
>beer-drinking hockey players, not founded by freedom-fighters in a bloody
>revolution but quietly assembled by loyalists and royalists more
>interested in order and good government than liberty and independence.
>
>But if we are the rugged individualists, why do we spend so much of our
>time trying to get everyone to march in lockstep? And if Canadians are so
>reserved and moderate, why are they so progressive about letting people do
>what they want to?
>
>Canadians are, as a nation, less religious than we are, according to
>polls. As a result, Canada's government isn't influenced by large,
>well-organized religious groups and thus has more in common with those of
>Scandinavia than those of the United States, or, say, Iran.
>
>Canada signed the Kyoto global warming treaty, lets 19-year-olds drink,
>has more of its population living in urban areas and accepts more
>immigrants per capita than the United States.
>
>These are all things we've been told will wreck our society. But I guess
>Canadians are different, because theirs seems oddly sound.
>
>Like teenagers, we fiercely idolize individual freedom but really demand
>that everyone be the same. But the Canadians seem more adult -- more
>secure. They aren't afraid of foreigners. They aren't afraid of
>homosexuality. Most of all, they're not afraid of each other.
>
>I wonder if America will ever be that cool.
Crystal
>These are all things we've been told will wreck our society.>>>Did you hear that on CBS?
Vicki A. Dennis
Those who would like to "do something" can go to
http://www.hrc.org/millionformarriage/index.asp
and add your voices. This is a good day/week for doing so in light of Shrub's declaration of this being the week to "protect" marriage!
Time for doing more than signing a petition?
Try http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/actioncenter/talking.html#eight
http://www.hrc.org/millionformarriage/index.asp
and add your voices. This is a good day/week for doing so in light of Shrub's declaration of this being the week to "protect" marriage!
Time for doing more than signing a petition?
Try http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/actioncenter/talking.html#eight
----- Original Message -----
From: KathrynJB@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:33 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] OT? HSDLA and Gay Marriage
This may be off-topic...in a lot of ways, it SHOULD be off-topic, except that
HSDLA has endorsed it, and it's not off-topic for MY homeschooling family's
life...so I want to share.
Beginning tomorrow, October 12th, the anniversary of Matthew Shephard's
death, National Marriage Protection Week, signed by President Bush, begins. One
person described this as "National Discriminate Against Committed Gay Couples
Week."
I don't even know what to say...I am just overcome with sadness and anger....
Kathryn, partner to Beth for thirteen years
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
Andrea wrote:
Mind you, my lot tried it once and it just got rebuilt....
Shyrley
>At 10:34 AM 10/11/03 -0400, Shyrley wrote:S'not my Whiite House. Burn away ;-)
>
>
>>Sigh. I hear Canada is nice :-)
>>
>>
>
>It's better than nice! You might be interested in this column:
>http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030730sam0730p1.asp
>
>Though we did come down and burn your White House a while back.
>
>Donna in Nova Scotia
>
Mind you, my lot tried it once and it just got rebuilt....
Shyrley
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>