susan

hjshaltz@... wrote:
I strongly disagree with this :)  Unschooling, IMO, is indeed about following
the child's lead--I like to refer to it as child-led learning.  However,
parents are not obligated to allow the child to lead anywhere she wants!  I
don't think you'd let your child lead you to give her lessons in arson, if
she were interested in burning things, would you? :)  There are always limits
in the real world.
well pulling some notion of possible 'desires' out of the air makes the discussion unreal and impossible.  the desire to play piano and the desire to break the law are hardly comparable and removes the whole element of safety which is of concern to every parent.  imo this statement would fall nicely under teri's request for fallacies of unschooling 'unschoolers allow their children to learn anything even if it's illegal'.   so my question to you is:  have you known of a child who had this type of desire?  do you know unschooling parents who willing endanger the lives of their children and the lives of others just because their child expressed an interest?
If my daughter had her way, we'd provide gymnastics, swimming, horseback
riding, piano lessons, and a host of other enriching activities.  I would
love to give her ample opportunity for each and every one of these
activities, but there's a few problems.  One, there's simply not enough time
to do all these things; Two, we don't have the money; and Three, she is not
real serious about any of the ones she's tried so far.
even holt says that 'you don't have to have every resource for your child' (teach your own pg 42) and even if you could there simply is not enough time to utilize these resources, but this is somewhat common sense and if it's not it's quickly learned once in the trenches.   i would like to add that there is a clear difference between a desire and a whim,  your statement disregards the possibility of a dialog between parent and child where this information could easily be obtained.  imo this dialog is key and is an essential component to unschooling.  everyone works within their own given limitation (such is the nature of life and since unschooler learn from life this too would become apparent if not already experienced e.g. if 2 events are at the same time you have choose one and not the other hence limitation is experienced so most children are aware of this reality)  but the piano lesson example was given in the context of the mother rejecting her own experience of having to take lessons putting this in place of her daughters desire to learn piano.  no other reason was given (e.i $, safety, whim etc.)
But when she doesn't follow through on her end
of the deal--for example, wearing the safety equipment needed, or placing her
hands on the keys like her teachers says--then it's time to rethink the
lessons.  Periodically we'll give her a new chance to try if she's still
interested, and if she's willing to be fully cooperative with the
restrictions inherent in the situation, then lessons will continue as long as
she is cooperative and we can work out any other problems.  But I'm under no
obligation to provide opportunities to someone who won't appreciate and make
the most of them.
this is completely personal and between you and your daughter.  these hurdles, found in all relationships,  are typically handles as the relationship warrants,  it is not for me to say (unless of course you would ask my opinion:)    i'm a firm believer in dialoging but that's me and my son seems to do very well with this type of relationship.  we have a budget (we're luck to clear $28,000/yr) and all decisions on how we spend our money is made by the whole family and even though rene' is only 4 his opinion is always regarded as valid and important (we are presently saving up for a chemistry lab and microscope - he had a choice between this and a video game player, he chose a chem. lab).  he also knows when it comes to safety it falls in my domain and we discuss it and find a safe way he can reach his goals -  we just had to deal w this because of the chem lab and we've had to limit the type of chemicals because of his age and dexterity.
If my child had a burning *need* to do something--for example, a child who is
a serious competitive swimmer, or who finds that music, or animals, or
whatever, is her life, then I would move heaven and earth to provide that
opportunity.  But most kids are just experimenting, which is fine, if done
with the understanding that it not take over the family's time and income.

Well, so much for my plan to lurk :)

Holly
hjshaltz@...
HJS Studio and Shaltz Farm Shetlands and Angora Rabbits
List Mom, [email protected] and [email protected]

i'm sorry that you interpreted my statement as completely disregarding reality.  imo unschooling is always in context of real life and family - one member's desires should never always usurp another rights and desires.  yes we must juggle the desires of all the members of the family (and for some people the state and extended family as well) though this is challenging at times it's also beautiful when it's working.

-susan
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'