Mary Lamken

>From: unschoolr2@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
>Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
>
>Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
>about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
>sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or
>play
>video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
>Thanks
>Teri
>

You can't unschool and learn math, algebra, etc...

You will have learning gaps...

Children aren't going to study history for FUN!!!!

Mary
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

susan

that's why every good writer has an editor:) - to deal with the mundane
aspects of writing. communication it the point not correct adherence to
standards, especially since we're not in school.

-susan
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'

p.s. i spell so poorly i confuse the spell checker and life is still good.
enjoy writing and don't sweat the small stuff.

-'dessert first'

unschoolr2@... wrote:

> ROFL and I call myself a writer! Fallacies not fallicies! Thank The Lord my
> emails are spell checked! I just wished they checked the subject line!!!!!!
>
> That is a fallacy..... writers know how to spell<g>
> Teri

susan

-unschoolers are lazy and don't discipline their children.

-unschoolers are chaotic and are anit-rules just to be anti-rules  they have no deeper reasons. i.e. unschoolers are contrary and non-conformist for it's own sake.

here's a website that really annoyed me because it passes opinion off as fact.  i think it will provide you with lots of 'fallacies'.  the author happens to be on our local list and i had a very brief interaction but quickly realized (and was advised) it was a waste of time because she needed to defending 'teaching' by attacking unschooling.  imo this is a really silly thing to do.  anyway here are some excerpts and links to check out for yourself:

1)   Unschooling in Theory ... 
John Holt's philosophy of unschooling is based on a false premise: the premise that ideas are innate. His radical position is that children automatically know how and what to learn, that they're born with the knowledge of how to get nonsense.  The proper methods of developing one's own intellect have to be learned just like any other knowledge, and having a teacher to guide the process is of significant value. (See Objective Approach.) A parent who insists that a child must lead his own education places an undue burden upon his young shoulders. Children do not yet have a broad enough context to see how knowledge fits together; they don’t mysteriously "know" what they can't possibly know.   http://www.hometaught.com/app_unschooling.htm

imo:  the burden, placed on children, of parents who lack faith in a child's ability and desires is the true burden.   and the fallacy is that unschooling parent don't facilitate the 'fitting together of knowledge'.  which leads to the denial that children question the world around them and that these questions led to the experience of 'how knowledge fits together' and these experiences, if not discovery naturally but the child, are provided and facilitated by the parents.  unschooling parents and their children choose a lifestyle of learning and thereby don't make a distinction between life and teaching.

 2)   Unschooling is:  Anti-schooling...
John Holt’s advice to unschooling parents from Teach Your Own (p. 229) sums up his theory in practice:

"I say, above all else, don’t let your home become [a] miniature copy of the school. No lesson plans! No quizzes! No tests! No report cards! Even leaving your children alone would be better; at least they could figure out some things on their
own. Live together, as well as you can; enjoy life together, as much as you can."

In other words, let the child be responsible for his own education. You parents don’t have to do anything—don’t plan a curriculum, don’t try to evaluate your child’s progress, don’t try to teach him. Just leave him alone to learn from life.  http://www.hometaught.com/john_holt.htm
 

imo: i don't know how you can 'live together' and then 'leave your [kids} alone'.  and the point that life-learners are people who have developed the skills of self-motivation and curiosity is completely lost in this 'interpretation'.

overall this author exhibits a need, for whatever reason, to have control over her children and their learning process, yet is not secure enough in this position to just do it, but must support the position by negating the possibility that there is a way where a child can learn and not be controlled.  imo we as parents need faith in ourselves as well as our children and this is perhaps the toughest hurdle presented by unschooling - obviously this author was unable to make this 'leap of faith' and perhaps should follow a different philosophy.

-susan,
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'

unschoolr2@... wrote:

Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or play
video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
Thanks
Teri
 
 

susan

i'm happy you can use it. this site has been driving me nuts because of
how falsely it presents unschool and how impossible gail is to discuss
anything with. i was not the first unschool to enter in a dialog with her
which lead no where but to just let it go was difficult for me. for a
while her site was not on our local links page because of her militant
anti-unschooling position but i was told she must have forced it and the
person doing the page caved.

keep us up on what comes of this endeavor.

-susan
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'

unschoolr2@... wrote:

> This Letter was full of info, thanks:) scary info but info nonetheless!
> Teri
>

D Klement

unschoolr2@... wrote:
>
> Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
> about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
> sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or play
> video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> Thanks
> Teri

Unschooling doesn't *allow* test books so how will they learn science,
math, another language etc.
Basically .... * interest led learning = NO text books allowed *

Buzz

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Klement Family "Education is what survives when
Darryl, Debbie, what has been learned has been
Kathleen, Nathan & forgotten"
Samantha B.F. Skinner in "New Scientist".
e-mail- klement@...
Canadian homeschool page: http:\\www.flora.org/homeschool-ca/
Ont. Federation of Teaching Parents: http:\\www.flora.org/oftp/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[email protected]

You mean I didn't have to get rid of all my shoes and invest in soybeans
when I started this??????
(ROFL) (new to homeschooling and enjoying these myths immensely!!)

GB,
Sandi

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:00:18 -0400 "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
writes:
> That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
> A
>
> BandLHaney@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > >From: unschoolr2@...
> > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > >To: [email protected]
> > > >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
> > > >
> > > >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or
> > misconceptions
> > > >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard
> the
> > very
> > > >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and
> watch
> > TV or
> > > >play
> > > >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> > > >Thanks
> > > >Teri
> >
> > Teri,
> > How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or
> they
> > have
> > to have textbooks to learn from.
> > Lisa
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >

________________________________________________________________
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A. Yates

That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
A

BandLHaney@... wrote:

 

> >From: unschoolr2@...
>  >Reply-To: [email protected]
>  >To: [email protected]
>  >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
>  >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
>  >
>  >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
>  >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
>  >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or
>  >play
>  >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
>  >Thanks
>  >Teri

Teri,
How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or they have
to have textbooks to learn from.
Lisa

Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
 

A. Yates

Hee...  Heee....  Amy,
I wear sandals too.  I am mostly vegetarian, but I'm too young to be a hippie!  (33)
:)  But, I wouldn't mind being called one.
Ann

K WORTHEN wrote:

Ann,I couldn't help but chuckle when I read your response because I do wear sandals, I am a vegetarian, and although I don't consider myself a hippie, a lot of other people might:)Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Yates
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
 That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
A

BandLHaney@... wrote:

 

> >From: unschoolr2@...
>  >Reply-To: [email protected]
>  >To: [email protected]
>  >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
>  >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
>  >
>  >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
>  >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
>  >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or
>  >play
>  >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
>  >Thanks
>  >Teri

Teri,
How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or they have
to have textbooks to learn from.
Lisa

Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
 

Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
 

Joel Hawthorne

This is what I posted as a comment to a lengthy discussion on intellectualcapital.com about schools, schooling and teachers:

{ This discussion (the one on intellectualcapital.com) is truly like discussing astrology or phrenology. A great raft of accepted notions which have ZERO validity are bandied about with much quoting of statistics.

The EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! "Education" is about making money, enforcing values, stifling questioning, ensuring conformity, destroying the
inherent love of learning, detaching children from their families, insuring that armies have willing solidiers, protecting the power of the powerful. To silently witness this discussion is like being ensnared in a nightmare/dream. Schooling is little better than wholesale incarceration of the young.

Each day of freedom is bright with promise. Boredom when you are free is the matrix of creativity. When you are imprisoned boredom is the cauldron in which cruelty boils. Schools are rife with bullies because they are run by well-meaning bullies who are oblivious to the fact that their function is to bully. Just as in a prison, the powerful control the less powerful right down the line.

I know that people may have good intentions but I just can't stand the hollowness of this discussion. I know that iconoclasm is only popular if it is not your icon being thwacked. }

I post this here because arguing with a schooled, schooling teacher is maddening to say the least.
susan wrote:

-unschoolers are lazy and don't discipline their children.

-unschoolers are chaotic and are anit-rules just to be anti-rules  they have no deeper reasons. i.e. unschoolers are contrary and non-conformist for it's own sake.

here's a website that really annoyed me because it passes opinion off as fact.  i think it will provide you with lots of 'fallacies'.  the author happens to be on our local list and i had a very brief interaction but quickly realized (and was advised) it was a waste of time because she needed to defending 'teaching' by attacking unschooling.  imo this is a really silly thing to do.  anyway here are some excerpts and links to check out for yourself:

1)   Unschooling in Theory ...
John Holt's philosophy of unschooling is based on a false premise: the premise that ideas are innate. His radical position is that children automatically know how and what to learn, that they're born with the knowledge of how to get nonsense.  The proper methods of developing one's own intellect have to be learned just like any other knowledge, and having a teacher to guide the process is of significant value. (See Objective Approach.) A parent who insists that a child must lead his own education places an undue burden upon his young shoulders. Children do not yet have a broad enough context to see how knowledge fits together; they don’t mysteriously "know" what they can't possibly know.   http://www.hometaught.com/app_unschooling.htm

imo:  the burden, placed on children, of parents who lack faith in a child's ability and desires is the true burden.   and the fallacy is that unschooling parent don't facilitate the 'fitting together of knowledge'.  which leads to the denial that children question the world around them and that these questions led to the experience of 'how knowledge fits together' and these experiences, if not discovery naturally but the child, are provided and facilitated by the parents.  unschooling parents and their children choose a lifestyle of learning and thereby don't make a distinction between life and teaching.

 2)   Unschooling is:  Anti-schooling...
John Holt’s advice to unschooling parents from Teach Your Own (p. 229) sums up his theory in practice:

"I say, above all else, don’t let your home become [a] miniature copy of the school. No lesson plans! No quizzes! No tests! No report cards! Even leaving your children alone would be better; at least they could figure out some things on their
own. Live together, as well as you can; enjoy life together, as much as you can."

In other words, let the child be responsible for his own education. You parents don’t have to do anything—don’t plan a curriculum, don’t try to evaluate your child’s progress, don’t try to teach him. Just leave him alone to learn from life.  http://www.hometaught.com/john_holt.htm
 

imo: i don't know how you can 'live together' and then 'leave your [kids} alone'.  and the point that life-learners are people who have developed the skills of self-motivation and curiosity is completely lost in this 'interpretation'.

overall this author exhibits a need, for whatever reason, to have control over her children and their learning process, yet is not secure enough in this position to just do it, but must support the position by negating the possibility that there is a way where a child can learn and not be controlled.  imo we as parents need faith in ourselves as well as our children and this is perhaps the toughest hurdle presented by unschooling - obviously this author was unable to make this 'leap of faith' and perhaps should follow a different philosophy.

-susan,
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'

unschoolr2@... wrote:

Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or play
video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
Thanks
Teri
 
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
 

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project   http://naturalchild.com/home/
 

Shannon Brophy

I am a believer in increasing a child's quality of life to support
learning, as John Hold believes. There was a quote to this effect in the
latest GWS newsletter. Bettering the quality of my life and the lives of
those in my family is a top priority for lots of reasons.
Shannon
responding to-
" snip
. Live together, as well as you can; enjoy life together, as much as you
can."
snip . from
2) Unschooling is: Anti-schooling...
John Holts advice to unschooling parents from Teach Your Own (p. 229) sums
up his theory in practice: http://www.hometaught.com/john_holt.htm