social interaction
[email protected]
Hi all,
Okay, before I posted too soon but this time I really have been on the group
for a week or so. <g> And I've been reading to get a feel for what
unschooling looks like, feels like -- to let my mind sift through it all and see what it
comes up with. And what it has come up with is a question: how are things
for your family on the social interaction front?
My six-year-old is in first grade in a charter school, and he does say he
wants to unschool. But every time we talk about "how was your day?" he has
positive things to say, especially about his friends. It kind of feels like I'm
trying to fix something that ain't broke -- I'm nervous that I would pull him
out of school (losing his place at the charter, since they have a long waiting
list), and then he'd hate it. I think he would really miss playing with
friends during the day. And when we have friends over, they tend to draw him into
things he's not as inclined to do by himself, such as play outside or play with
his pirate ship.
I have been thinking along the lines of starting an unschooling/homeschooling
co-op, where I trade off days with one or two families. This would give me
time to write (I'm trying to finish a novel, and I have to admit that it's much
easier to write when he's at school) and would give others to interact with
when and if he wanted to do so. Or they could just hang out and do their own t
hing. Does anyone have experience with or ideas about that?
I also think about making a business of it and starting a Sudbury Valley
school (http://www.sudval.org/ or http://www.sudburynetwork.org) which is
unschooling a bunch of kids, all ages above 4, in one big house with lots of grounds
to explore. The benefit is that they hold a Student Meeting which makes all
school decisions -- including hiring and firing the teachers -- and get to
participate in democracy in action. My husband's making noises about returning to
grad school, so I may need to fall back on this as an income source.
Just some more info -- I do have one other child, but he's 4 months old --
won't be a great playmate for Fisher for a while yet. <g> And if any one is
interested in joining one of these ventures, I'm in Grand Rapids, MI.
Thanks (in advance) for your input.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Okay, before I posted too soon but this time I really have been on the group
for a week or so. <g> And I've been reading to get a feel for what
unschooling looks like, feels like -- to let my mind sift through it all and see what it
comes up with. And what it has come up with is a question: how are things
for your family on the social interaction front?
My six-year-old is in first grade in a charter school, and he does say he
wants to unschool. But every time we talk about "how was your day?" he has
positive things to say, especially about his friends. It kind of feels like I'm
trying to fix something that ain't broke -- I'm nervous that I would pull him
out of school (losing his place at the charter, since they have a long waiting
list), and then he'd hate it. I think he would really miss playing with
friends during the day. And when we have friends over, they tend to draw him into
things he's not as inclined to do by himself, such as play outside or play with
his pirate ship.
I have been thinking along the lines of starting an unschooling/homeschooling
co-op, where I trade off days with one or two families. This would give me
time to write (I'm trying to finish a novel, and I have to admit that it's much
easier to write when he's at school) and would give others to interact with
when and if he wanted to do so. Or they could just hang out and do their own t
hing. Does anyone have experience with or ideas about that?
I also think about making a business of it and starting a Sudbury Valley
school (http://www.sudval.org/ or http://www.sudburynetwork.org) which is
unschooling a bunch of kids, all ages above 4, in one big house with lots of grounds
to explore. The benefit is that they hold a Student Meeting which makes all
school decisions -- including hiring and firing the teachers -- and get to
participate in democracy in action. My husband's making noises about returning to
grad school, so I may need to fall back on this as an income source.
Just some more info -- I do have one other child, but he's 4 months old --
won't be a great playmate for Fisher for a while yet. <g> And if any one is
interested in joining one of these ventures, I'm in Grand Rapids, MI.
Thanks (in advance) for your input.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< And what it has come up with is a question: how are things
for your family on the social interaction front?>>
Before the kids were "school age," we were in a La Leche League-related (not
formally related, but based on those families) babysitting co-op and
playgroup. The playgroup continued and became a homeschooling group, gradually, as
some of the LLL families sent kids to school, and other homeschooling families
found us. Some of those kids are still in our lives. Marty is over moving
furniture for one of those families right now, come to think of it!
When my kids were younger, I took them out to where other kids were at least
once a week, or had a group of kids over. We'd find excuses for back-yard
play (wading pools and sprinklers were very popular with that group for a while,
and we had a good yard with a big concrete slab and good lawn in those days).
Now they're older and they have friends who are schooled and some
homeschooled. They find their friends from hobbies, mostly. Friends of friends, and
their circles grow.
<< And when we have friends over, they tend to draw him into
things he's not as inclined to do by himself, such as play outside or play
with
his pirate ship. >>
There are a lot of hours in the week. It doesn't have to be just during
daytimes that he has friends. And school is in session 180 days, which leaves
more daytimes when school kids ARE available than not.
It's possible that after a while you'll find irritations with kids who are
still in school, but at this age, it would be a way to wean him from that group
gradually instead of just cutting ties.
<<I have been thinking along the lines of starting an
unschooling/homeschooling
co-op, where I trade off days with one or two families. >>
If you just call it "trading days" or something less structured that
any-schooling co-op, there will be less to negotiate (fight) about.
Even just having another child over will give you more time.
<<I also think about making a business of it and starting a Sudbury Valley
school (http://www.sudval.org/ or http://www.sudburynetwork.org) which is
unschooling a bunch of kids, all ages above 4, in one big house with lots of
grounds
to explore. >>
It's running an alternative school.
It's not unschooling.
<<My husband's making noises about returning to
grad school, so I may need to fall back on this as an income source.>>
It's nearly impossible to make money with a private school on your own terms.
And when people pay money, they want proofs/results, something. The schools
which have survived a while have drawn students from far away--boarding
school situations.
Having other kids over will have lots of benefits, and if you meet another
family with more than one child, having yours there might be a great benefit for
them!
There are other families that really like having Holly, because she changes
the dynamics and tensions of their two or three kids. I used to borrow
singular male children to mix with my two boys, same reason.
Sandra
for your family on the social interaction front?>>
Before the kids were "school age," we were in a La Leche League-related (not
formally related, but based on those families) babysitting co-op and
playgroup. The playgroup continued and became a homeschooling group, gradually, as
some of the LLL families sent kids to school, and other homeschooling families
found us. Some of those kids are still in our lives. Marty is over moving
furniture for one of those families right now, come to think of it!
When my kids were younger, I took them out to where other kids were at least
once a week, or had a group of kids over. We'd find excuses for back-yard
play (wading pools and sprinklers were very popular with that group for a while,
and we had a good yard with a big concrete slab and good lawn in those days).
Now they're older and they have friends who are schooled and some
homeschooled. They find their friends from hobbies, mostly. Friends of friends, and
their circles grow.
<< And when we have friends over, they tend to draw him into
things he's not as inclined to do by himself, such as play outside or play
with
his pirate ship. >>
There are a lot of hours in the week. It doesn't have to be just during
daytimes that he has friends. And school is in session 180 days, which leaves
more daytimes when school kids ARE available than not.
It's possible that after a while you'll find irritations with kids who are
still in school, but at this age, it would be a way to wean him from that group
gradually instead of just cutting ties.
<<I have been thinking along the lines of starting an
unschooling/homeschooling
co-op, where I trade off days with one or two families. >>
If you just call it "trading days" or something less structured that
any-schooling co-op, there will be less to negotiate (fight) about.
Even just having another child over will give you more time.
<<I also think about making a business of it and starting a Sudbury Valley
school (http://www.sudval.org/ or http://www.sudburynetwork.org) which is
unschooling a bunch of kids, all ages above 4, in one big house with lots of
grounds
to explore. >>
It's running an alternative school.
It's not unschooling.
<<My husband's making noises about returning to
grad school, so I may need to fall back on this as an income source.>>
It's nearly impossible to make money with a private school on your own terms.
And when people pay money, they want proofs/results, something. The schools
which have survived a while have drawn students from far away--boarding
school situations.
Having other kids over will have lots of benefits, and if you meet another
family with more than one child, having yours there might be a great benefit for
them!
There are other families that really like having Holly, because she changes
the dynamics and tensions of their two or three kids. I used to borrow
singular male children to mix with my two boys, same reason.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/03 3:57:49 PM, arcarpenter@... writes:
<< My six-year-old is in first grade in a charter school, and he does say he
wants to unschool. >>
I forgot to say that for a six year old the question would be better put
"Would you rather be home than at school?" If kids are home against their will,
it can be as bad as a child being in school against his will.
(Not all homeschoolers agree with me. I'm putting on my little helmet.)
Sandra
<< My six-year-old is in first grade in a charter school, and he does say he
wants to unschool. >>
I forgot to say that for a six year old the question would be better put
"Would you rather be home than at school?" If kids are home against their will,
it can be as bad as a child being in school against his will.
(Not all homeschoolers agree with me. I'm putting on my little helmet.)
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 10/1/03 5:50 PM, arcarpenter@... at arcarpenter@... wrote:
with friends? Unless the charter school is very open about letting the kids
interact freely, what he may be getting at school that you're calling "play"
is closer on the scale to contact with other kids. The interaction they get
at school is severely restricted. He undoubtedly needs other kids so what he
gets at school is better than nothing. Basically he's making the best of
what he's given.
It's sort of like craving chocolate and being given cheap waxy imitation
chocolate. It'd be better than nothing if you were on Mars and the next
shipment of good stuff didn't arrive for 6 months but it isn't something
someone would choose if they could have Godiva chocolate.
want to create a coop then your goal needs to be creating a great experience
for the kids, not a free time to write.
Call it a regularly scheduled playdate and there won't be expectations
beyond the kids playing.
If your goal is time to write, then you need to remember that he needs to
know that his needs are more important than writing, for no matter how much
you love him and tell him he's number one, if your actions are often saying
he's interfering with what you really want to do, he's going to get the idea
that he's second to writing in your life.
Some writers find time to write late at night or early in the morning.
Another idea is a weekly night out while your husband is at home with your
son at the library or maybe Barnes and Noble where you can curl up with a
cup of coffee and a laptop.
Or playdates with other kids. I certainly find time to do computer stuff
whether my daughter is here or off at a friends.
there's a lot of stuff that it isn't occuring to you that will need to be
done.
I think Sudbury Valley schools are great ideas. But great ideas for people
whose goal is to open a Sudbury Valley school, not someone whose goal is to
make money or free up her time or bring in playmates for her son.
Joyce
> I think he would really miss playing withIs the play he's getting at school the same quality of play he'd get at home
> friends during the day.
with friends? Unless the charter school is very open about letting the kids
interact freely, what he may be getting at school that you're calling "play"
is closer on the scale to contact with other kids. The interaction they get
at school is severely restricted. He undoubtedly needs other kids so what he
gets at school is better than nothing. Basically he's making the best of
what he's given.
It's sort of like craving chocolate and being given cheap waxy imitation
chocolate. It'd be better than nothing if you were on Mars and the next
shipment of good stuff didn't arrive for 6 months but it isn't something
someone would choose if they could have Godiva chocolate.
> I have been thinking along the lines of starting an unschooling/homeschoolingI'd seriously look at that. You've got too many goals mixed in there. If you
> co-op, where I trade off days with one or two families. This would give me
> time to write (I'm trying to finish a novel, and I have to admit that it's
> much easier to write when he's at school) and would give others to interact
> with when and if he wanted to do so. Or they could just hang out and do their
> own thing. Does anyone have experience with or ideas about that?
want to create a coop then your goal needs to be creating a great experience
for the kids, not a free time to write.
Call it a regularly scheduled playdate and there won't be expectations
beyond the kids playing.
If your goal is time to write, then you need to remember that he needs to
know that his needs are more important than writing, for no matter how much
you love him and tell him he's number one, if your actions are often saying
he's interfering with what you really want to do, he's going to get the idea
that he's second to writing in your life.
Some writers find time to write late at night or early in the morning.
Another idea is a weekly night out while your husband is at home with your
son at the library or maybe Barnes and Noble where you can curl up with a
cup of coffee and a laptop.
Or playdates with other kids. I certainly find time to do computer stuff
whether my daughter is here or off at a friends.
> I also think about making a business of it and starting a Sudbury ValleyRegardless of how student run the school is, it won't run itself. I think
> school (http://www.sudval.org/ or http://www.sudburynetwork.org) which is
> unschooling a bunch of kids, all ages above 4, in one big house with lots of
> grounds to explore. The benefit is that they hold a Student Meeting which
> makes all school decisions
there's a lot of stuff that it isn't occuring to you that will need to be
done.
I think Sudbury Valley schools are great ideas. But great ideas for people
whose goal is to open a Sudbury Valley school, not someone whose goal is to
make money or free up her time or bring in playmates for her son.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/2/03 5:51:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
carefully. But isn't it also advantageous to kids when they see adults doing
their own work? I've always thought of my writing as a positive model for Fisher
-- he knows my writing group very well and often writes stories or draws
pictures for them when he knows that it's my week to host. My writing and our
writing together really taps into an openness that allows us to have *great*
talks. I already do write late at night or early in the morning, but the daytime
hours are great for revising, really figuring out the shape of plot and
character -- doing the big work of a novel. I keep thinking there's some way to
strike a balance -- after all, doesn't unschooling have some historical roots in
life before schools, when kids learned from the adults around them as the
adults went about their normal day's work?
Also, both you and Sandra (sorry, Sandra, I lost your email before responding
to it) had a different reaction to the word "co-op" than I did. What is your
definition of an unschooling co-op?
Your responses are really helping me to think this through -- thanks for
working with me!
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> Is the play he's getting at school the same quality of play he'd get atThat was really helpful -- thanks!
> home
> with friends? Unless the charter school is very open about letting the kids
> interact freely, what he may be getting at school that you're calling "play"
> is closer on the scale to contact with other kids. The interaction they get
> at school is severely restricted. He undoubtedly needs other kids so what he
> gets at school is better than nothing. Basically he's making the best of
> what he's given.
>
> It's sort of like craving chocolate and being given cheap waxy imitation
> chocolate. It'd be better than nothing if you were on Mars and the next
> shipment of good stuff didn't arrive for 6 months but it isn't something
> someone would choose if they could have Godiva chocolate.
>
> I'd seriously look at that. You've got too many goals mixed in there. IfI think you're right that I have mixed goals that I need to examine very
> you
> want to create a coop then your goal needs to be creating a great experience
> for the kids, not a free time to write.
carefully. But isn't it also advantageous to kids when they see adults doing
their own work? I've always thought of my writing as a positive model for Fisher
-- he knows my writing group very well and often writes stories or draws
pictures for them when he knows that it's my week to host. My writing and our
writing together really taps into an openness that allows us to have *great*
talks. I already do write late at night or early in the morning, but the daytime
hours are great for revising, really figuring out the shape of plot and
character -- doing the big work of a novel. I keep thinking there's some way to
strike a balance -- after all, doesn't unschooling have some historical roots in
life before schools, when kids learned from the adults around them as the
adults went about their normal day's work?
Also, both you and Sandra (sorry, Sandra, I lost your email before responding
to it) had a different reaction to the word "co-op" than I did. What is your
definition of an unschooling co-op?
Your responses are really helping me to think this through -- thanks for
working with me!
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/5/03 9:12:43 PM, arcarpenter@... writes:
<< What is your
definition of an unschooling co-op?
In homeschooling co-ops one person will 'teach math' and another teaches
English, but if the families are unschooling what do they need a co-op for?
If your kids are staying at someone else's house part of the time, great!
If they're staying with unschoolers, better still!
But they're just in a different place, they're not "at an unschooling co-op."
Sandra
<< What is your
definition of an unschooling co-op?
>>Co-op WHAT specifically are you thinking?
In homeschooling co-ops one person will 'teach math' and another teaches
English, but if the families are unschooling what do they need a co-op for?
If your kids are staying at someone else's house part of the time, great!
If they're staying with unschoolers, better still!
But they're just in a different place, they're not "at an unschooling co-op."
Sandra
Tia Leschke
>That might be true in some co-ops, but I've known of some around here that
>
>In homeschooling co-ops one person will 'teach math' and another teaches
>English, but if the families are unschooling what do they need a co-op for?
just rotated between homes. The host would *offer* what they thought was a
fun activity or two, like building a geodesic dome with newspapers or
something. Usually the kids took part and liked it, but they could do
something else if they wanted. And the parents stayed and did stuff with
the kids.
Tia in Canada
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/03 6:42:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
in the area not homeschooling for religious reasons), and I think our kids will
have a good time together. I'm feeling easier with this whole thing. Thanks
so much for the help in thinking it all through.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
>An update: I am meeting with another homeschooler (the only one I've found
> There are other families that really like having Holly, because she changes
> the dynamics and tensions of their two or three kids. I used to borrow
> singular male children to mix with my two boys, same reason.
in the area not homeschooling for religious reasons), and I think our kids will
have a good time together. I'm feeling easier with this whole thing. Thanks
so much for the help in thinking it all through.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/5/03 11:19:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
everyone taught a subject. Thanks for answering my question.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> If your kids are staying at someone else's house part of the time, great!Yep, that's what I was thinking -- I didn't realize that the term co-op meant
> If they're staying with unschoolers, better still!
>
> But they're just in a different place, they're not "at an unschooling
> co-op."
>
everyone taught a subject. Thanks for answering my question.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]