unschooling lifestyle
[email protected]
Ok, I've waded through a bunch of digest versions of this egroup, and now I'm
jumpin' in on this "Christian unschooling" "Bob Jones" discussion.
1) A statement of faith is a list of doctrine/religious beliefs which a
person chooses to follow or not follow. Usually this is a document which serves as
a basis or the basis for a house of worship. There IS freedom of religion
and if a person chooses to do this, FINE!!! That's their American God-given
right. This is not being "intolerant". This is a choice. What a person does
with that choice IS another issue in itself. Some religions are extremely
legalistic, others are extremely liberal.
2) "Christian" is a term or label for one who follows the person and
teachings of Jesus Christ. This is a religious choice. Remember, freedom of
religion.
3) A person has the choice of how to conduct one's attitudes, personality,
lifestyle. A person also has the choice of how to react to different attitudes,
personality, and lifestyles. Therefore, the "fence" has both sides. Both
sides go overboard on religious and unschooling, to a point.
4) Why don't we all just settle and worship "God?" Because the 1 and only 1
major factor is different--the belief in the individual religions concerning
the personhood, humanity, and authenticity of Jesus Christ. This belief
literally spans the spectrum of total belief in who He said He was, and those who do
not believe He was who He professed to be, and all those in between. The 2
ends of the spectrum cannot mix--belief wise, the definition of "God" is exactly
the opposite from each other. Whew, glad to get that typed out.
4) I believe strongly that home education families CAN bind together, unite
and do stuff together. I've personally have seen this happen here in Missouri.
The religious basis is NOT used as the basis for the organization structure.
Yes, we have all types of families who participate. Yes, the families talk
to each other on all topics. What keeps us together?? We're checking out the
awesome world and gaining knowledge and using it however we choose within our
own families. The parents have a deep quest for knowledge and this eager
anticipation is from "ideas" from our kids, and we all dig together and glean what
we can. We facilitate and model "learning" on the topics/issues, whatever
our kids want to dig into!!! Our kids thirst after deeper learning environments
and than they thrive in directions we never thought would've ever enter into
our minds, as adults :) We watch them grow and develop into lifelong learners
persuing their goals in life.
5) Yes, I hold strong religious, "Christian" personal beliefs. Yes, if
asked, I'll share. I'll also shut up. I won't apologize if my lifestyle is
different. One thing for sure, I am having the time of my life as a home educator.
I've met so many families who share the same educational philosophy--the
lifelong learning of unschooling. Do I have an educational "plan" for my kids?
Yep, they are going to be encouraged to pursue their goals, and their critical
thinking minds. I am looked upon as either totally "right on" or "nuts" by my
peers. I don't care. I'm not hurting anyone, that's their problem. I'm not
going to be bothered by such childish tactics.
However, I've made personal religious choices, and I'll live by my
convictions.
In some beliefs this involves dress, schooling type, and curriculum choices.
If you want to make a religious choice, that's your choice! Unschooling is a
lifestyle, not a religious belief.
Thanks for listening.
Spc in Mo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jumpin' in on this "Christian unschooling" "Bob Jones" discussion.
1) A statement of faith is a list of doctrine/religious beliefs which a
person chooses to follow or not follow. Usually this is a document which serves as
a basis or the basis for a house of worship. There IS freedom of religion
and if a person chooses to do this, FINE!!! That's their American God-given
right. This is not being "intolerant". This is a choice. What a person does
with that choice IS another issue in itself. Some religions are extremely
legalistic, others are extremely liberal.
2) "Christian" is a term or label for one who follows the person and
teachings of Jesus Christ. This is a religious choice. Remember, freedom of
religion.
3) A person has the choice of how to conduct one's attitudes, personality,
lifestyle. A person also has the choice of how to react to different attitudes,
personality, and lifestyles. Therefore, the "fence" has both sides. Both
sides go overboard on religious and unschooling, to a point.
4) Why don't we all just settle and worship "God?" Because the 1 and only 1
major factor is different--the belief in the individual religions concerning
the personhood, humanity, and authenticity of Jesus Christ. This belief
literally spans the spectrum of total belief in who He said He was, and those who do
not believe He was who He professed to be, and all those in between. The 2
ends of the spectrum cannot mix--belief wise, the definition of "God" is exactly
the opposite from each other. Whew, glad to get that typed out.
4) I believe strongly that home education families CAN bind together, unite
and do stuff together. I've personally have seen this happen here in Missouri.
The religious basis is NOT used as the basis for the organization structure.
Yes, we have all types of families who participate. Yes, the families talk
to each other on all topics. What keeps us together?? We're checking out the
awesome world and gaining knowledge and using it however we choose within our
own families. The parents have a deep quest for knowledge and this eager
anticipation is from "ideas" from our kids, and we all dig together and glean what
we can. We facilitate and model "learning" on the topics/issues, whatever
our kids want to dig into!!! Our kids thirst after deeper learning environments
and than they thrive in directions we never thought would've ever enter into
our minds, as adults :) We watch them grow and develop into lifelong learners
persuing their goals in life.
5) Yes, I hold strong religious, "Christian" personal beliefs. Yes, if
asked, I'll share. I'll also shut up. I won't apologize if my lifestyle is
different. One thing for sure, I am having the time of my life as a home educator.
I've met so many families who share the same educational philosophy--the
lifelong learning of unschooling. Do I have an educational "plan" for my kids?
Yep, they are going to be encouraged to pursue their goals, and their critical
thinking minds. I am looked upon as either totally "right on" or "nuts" by my
peers. I don't care. I'm not hurting anyone, that's their problem. I'm not
going to be bothered by such childish tactics.
However, I've made personal religious choices, and I'll live by my
convictions.
In some beliefs this involves dress, schooling type, and curriculum choices.
If you want to make a religious choice, that's your choice! Unschooling is a
lifestyle, not a religious belief.
Thanks for listening.
Spc in Mo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 10/1/03 1:01 AM, spcparents@... at spcparents@... wrote:
used to clearly lay out what beliefs the members of the group hold. They are
also a message to those who don't hold those beliefs that their acceptance
into the group very probably won't be as all encompassing as those who do
hold the beliefs.
That practice is something people should be aware of. People should also be
aware of *why* the groups choose to set themselves up that way. And it's not
because they want everyone who homeschools to be all one big happy family.
Would you feel comfortable signing a statement of faith that said you
believed we are all reincarnated until we reach Enlightenment and are
welcomed into the heavens with Buddha?
isn't aimed at convincing anyone that fundmenatlist Christians don't have a
right separate from the rest of us, or run exclusive groups, or believe in
things that many people disagree with. They do have the right.
What's being discussed is the extent and existence of this very large group
of homeschoolers that is practically invisible to many homeschoolers,
especially unschoolers.
The negative experiences with the Christian support groups that people are
expressing are, I believe, in response to the idea that the label is
creating a division between secular homeschoolers and Christian
homeschoolers. But in fact it's the Christian Homeschoolers themselves who
*want* the division. The experiences, I believe, were meant to illustrate
that Christian Homeschoolers want to be separate from the rest of us, not in
how wrong and hurtful the groups are for existing or that they should not be
allowed to exist.
Many Christians define Christianity more narrowly. It's their right to do
so. But in terms of being able to express informed opinions about
homeschoolers as a group, it's useful to be aware that there is a large
chunk of Christians who are homeschooling who don't agree with your
definition. Their definition excludes a goodly chunk of people who consider
themselves Christian.
That is both reality and their right to do so. And people should be aware of
that reality or the opinions they express about homeschooling in general --
often from an unschooling point of view -- can be very very wrong.
question whether Jesus was son of God or that he existed. Some admit that we
can't know about the son of God aspect and allow individuals to doubt.
(United Church of Christ comes to mind, but even within the UCC individual
churches can be very different in their doctrine.)
If you're talking about something else, I'm totally missing the point. But
if I've understood, your information about the doctrine of Christianity
beyond your own set of beliefs is way off.
are the ones who are desiring the separation from the Christian groups and
we're causing the rifts.
Perhaps it's different in your little pocket of Missouri. But you also say
you're a Christian which is perhaps like a white person commenting on the
state of race relations. Does your group have Pagans and Buddhists and
families with same sex partners and Asians and Hispanics and African
Americans? And what do they honestly say about how included they feel?
There are many areas of the country where very specific Christian beliefs
are used as a determining factor on who the families in the group should
allow into the group. They *choose* to do this because they *don't* want to
"bind together, unite and do stuff together." They want to make sure they
are only uniting with those whose beliefs match theirs.
It's their right to do so and I understand why they want it that way. Heck,
I wouldn't want to mix with a group of White Separatist Movement
homeschoolers (should such a group exist).
People should be aware that fundamentalist Christians who don't want to mix
with unschoolers and people who aren't their brand of Christianity. People
should also be aware of *why* they want to limit who their children are
exposed to.
information about the homeschooling movement that many people, including
you, don't seem to be aware of.
No one's asking the fundamentlists to stop doing what they're doing. But
people should be aware that fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers exist and
what their beliefs are and what their goals for homeschooling are because
they are a large politically active group. The legislation they may push for
-- that may on the surface seem to be good -- could hamper how we as
unschoolers can homeschool.
They don't care about the unschoolers' need to have freedom to help their
children learn in anyway that's best for them. Their goal is to have as
little government interference as possible. Which sounds good! But they --
since the core who are pushing their political agenda -- are school at
homers. And they are willing to allow legislation -- even encourage
legislation -- that requires some formal assessment. They recognize that
tests or the like -- since they know they can get their kids to do well on
tests -- will keep the government from looking into what they're doing.
Joyce
> 1) A statement of faith is a list of doctrine/religious beliefs which aIn fundamentalist Christian homeschooling groups statements of faith are
> person chooses to follow or not follow.> There IS freedom of religion
used to clearly lay out what beliefs the members of the group hold. They are
also a message to those who don't hold those beliefs that their acceptance
into the group very probably won't be as all encompassing as those who do
hold the beliefs.
That practice is something people should be aware of. People should also be
aware of *why* the groups choose to set themselves up that way. And it's not
because they want everyone who homeschools to be all one big happy family.
Would you feel comfortable signing a statement of faith that said you
believed we are all reincarnated until we reach Enlightenment and are
welcomed into the heavens with Buddha?
> and if a person chooses to do this, FINE!!! That's their American God-givenI think you're reading more into what's being discussed. The discussion
> right. This is not being "intolerant". This is a choice.
isn't aimed at convincing anyone that fundmenatlist Christians don't have a
right separate from the rest of us, or run exclusive groups, or believe in
things that many people disagree with. They do have the right.
What's being discussed is the extent and existence of this very large group
of homeschoolers that is practically invisible to many homeschoolers,
especially unschoolers.
The negative experiences with the Christian support groups that people are
expressing are, I believe, in response to the idea that the label is
creating a division between secular homeschoolers and Christian
homeschoolers. But in fact it's the Christian Homeschoolers themselves who
*want* the division. The experiences, I believe, were meant to illustrate
that Christian Homeschoolers want to be separate from the rest of us, not in
how wrong and hurtful the groups are for existing or that they should not be
allowed to exist.
> 2) "Christian" is a term or label for one who follows the person andDepends who is defining Christianity. Yours is a very inclusive definition.
> teachings of Jesus Christ. This is a religious choice. Remember, freedom of
> religion.
Many Christians define Christianity more narrowly. It's their right to do
so. But in terms of being able to express informed opinions about
homeschoolers as a group, it's useful to be aware that there is a large
chunk of Christians who are homeschooling who don't agree with your
definition. Their definition excludes a goodly chunk of people who consider
themselves Christian.
That is both reality and their right to do so. And people should be aware of
that reality or the opinions they express about homeschooling in general --
often from an unschooling point of view -- can be very very wrong.
> 4) Why don't we all just settle and worship "God?" Because the 1 and only 1No, that's very very wrong. There are few mainstream Christian faiths that
> major factor is different--the belief in the individual religions concerning
> the personhood, humanity, and authenticity of Jesus Christ.
question whether Jesus was son of God or that he existed. Some admit that we
can't know about the son of God aspect and allow individuals to doubt.
(United Church of Christ comes to mind, but even within the UCC individual
churches can be very different in their doctrine.)
If you're talking about something else, I'm totally missing the point. But
if I've understood, your information about the doctrine of Christianity
beyond your own set of beliefs is way off.
> 4) I believe strongly that home education families CAN bind together, uniteIt seems you're saying that those of us who aren't fundamentalist Christians
> and do stuff together. I've personally have seen this happen here in
> Missouri.
> The religious basis is NOT used as the basis for the organization structure.
are the ones who are desiring the separation from the Christian groups and
we're causing the rifts.
Perhaps it's different in your little pocket of Missouri. But you also say
you're a Christian which is perhaps like a white person commenting on the
state of race relations. Does your group have Pagans and Buddhists and
families with same sex partners and Asians and Hispanics and African
Americans? And what do they honestly say about how included they feel?
There are many areas of the country where very specific Christian beliefs
are used as a determining factor on who the families in the group should
allow into the group. They *choose* to do this because they *don't* want to
"bind together, unite and do stuff together." They want to make sure they
are only uniting with those whose beliefs match theirs.
It's their right to do so and I understand why they want it that way. Heck,
I wouldn't want to mix with a group of White Separatist Movement
homeschoolers (should such a group exist).
People should be aware that fundamentalist Christians who don't want to mix
with unschoolers and people who aren't their brand of Christianity. People
should also be aware of *why* they want to limit who their children are
exposed to.
> I won't apologize if my lifestyle is different.No one's asking anyone to apologize for their beliefs. We're presenting
information about the homeschooling movement that many people, including
you, don't seem to be aware of.
No one's asking the fundamentlists to stop doing what they're doing. But
people should be aware that fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers exist and
what their beliefs are and what their goals for homeschooling are because
they are a large politically active group. The legislation they may push for
-- that may on the surface seem to be good -- could hamper how we as
unschoolers can homeschool.
They don't care about the unschoolers' need to have freedom to help their
children learn in anyway that's best for them. Their goal is to have as
little government interference as possible. Which sounds good! But they --
since the core who are pushing their political agenda -- are school at
homers. And they are willing to allow legislation -- even encourage
legislation -- that requires some formal assessment. They recognize that
tests or the like -- since they know they can get their kids to do well on
tests -- will keep the government from looking into what they're doing.
Joyce
Ren
"4) I believe strongly that home education families CAN bind together, unite
and do stuff together. I've personally have seen this happen here in Missouri"
Nobody is saying they can't! We're saying that the type of Christians WE are talking about wouldn't DARE hang out with the likes of a Pagan or a Buddhist or an atheist or.....
I run an inclusive group. I know exactly how home/unschoolers of all faiths and backgrounds can come together for mutual support. But the Christians in our group are not the type of Christians we're talking about here. Those folks have shown up occasionally and never, ever come back after they see our kids playing Yu-gi-oh, talking about certain movies and figure out that we have atheist and Pagan members.
You're preaching to the choir. We KNOW that homeschoolers can come together, we also know that there is a brand of homeschooler called "Christian homeschoolers" that want nothing to do with a truly inclusive group.
The local very organized, very powerful homeschooling support group is Christian based. Their statement of faith weeds out even semi-liberal Christians with the very first item..."I believe that the Bible is the INFALLIBLE word of God, blah, blah, blah"
Not exactly inclusive.
It IS intolerant.
I go as far as to say you can't truly unschool if you're children aren't allowed to form their own beliefs. But that's me.
Ren
and do stuff together. I've personally have seen this happen here in Missouri"
Nobody is saying they can't! We're saying that the type of Christians WE are talking about wouldn't DARE hang out with the likes of a Pagan or a Buddhist or an atheist or.....
I run an inclusive group. I know exactly how home/unschoolers of all faiths and backgrounds can come together for mutual support. But the Christians in our group are not the type of Christians we're talking about here. Those folks have shown up occasionally and never, ever come back after they see our kids playing Yu-gi-oh, talking about certain movies and figure out that we have atheist and Pagan members.
You're preaching to the choir. We KNOW that homeschoolers can come together, we also know that there is a brand of homeschooler called "Christian homeschoolers" that want nothing to do with a truly inclusive group.
The local very organized, very powerful homeschooling support group is Christian based. Their statement of faith weeds out even semi-liberal Christians with the very first item..."I believe that the Bible is the INFALLIBLE word of God, blah, blah, blah"
Not exactly inclusive.
It IS intolerant.
I go as far as to say you can't truly unschool if you're children aren't allowed to form their own beliefs. But that's me.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/03 11:03:31 PM, spcparents@... writes:
<< Therefore, the "fence" has both sides. Both
sides go overboard on religious and unschooling, to a point. >>
If you think those "sides" are of equal weight, you haven't looked into what
we're writing about.
<< Yes, we have all types of families who participate. >>
I doubt you have the kinds of families we're talking about.
There are families whose reason for homeschooling is to keep away from people
who aren't of their religion (their very narrow definition of their religion,
which is the purpose for the statement of faith HOMESCHOOL groups--you talked
about church statements of faith, which is not the same thing).
<<We're checking out the
awesome world and gaining knowledge and using it however we choose within our
own families. >>
The families I'm talking about don't check out "the awesome world." They
only check out the Bible and things written and spoken by people in their groups.
Do you doubt those groups exist?
Did you look at any of the links I sent yesterday?
Do you not WANT to know?
<<The parents have a deep quest for knowledge and this eager
anticipation is from "ideas" from our kids, and we all dig together and glean
what
we can.>>
I could find sites saying kids "ideas" are worthless, only what the parents
tell them to think is of value. Those are the people who are speaking for
unschoolers in general, working to change laws and to take over the government.
Do I think they'll succeed in the latter? No. They've already succeeded in
the former in some states. Do I think it's embarrassing and frustrating that
they're speaking for all homeschoolers.
Yes.
Also embarrassed there are people on an unschooling list who COULD be
learning from the world around them who prefer to say LA LA LA LA you can't make me
know this. LA LA LA LA I'm not looking at those websites.
<<Our kids thirst after deeper learning environments
and than they thrive in directions we never thought would've ever enter into
our minds, as adults :) We watch them grow and develop into lifelong
learners
persuing their goals in life.>>
Sure lots of homeschoolers do. That doesn't change the fact that lots don't
and don't WANT to.
<<I've met so many families who share the same educational philosophy--the
lifelong learning of unschooling. >>
I've met unschoolers too.
What does that have to do with the Christian Homeschooling Movement which
remains staunchly critical of unschooling?
<<Do I have an educational "plan" for my kids?
Yep, they are going to be encouraged to pursue their goals, and their
critical
thinking minds. >>
Then you're obviously not one of the members of that Christian Homeschooling
Movement.
<<A statement of faith is a list of doctrine/religious beliefs which a
person chooses to follow or not follow. Usually this is a document which
serves as
a basis or the basis for a house of worship. There IS freedom of religion
and if a person chooses to do this, FINE!!! >>
This statement entirely misses the point of the discussion.
Sandra
<< Therefore, the "fence" has both sides. Both
sides go overboard on religious and unschooling, to a point. >>
If you think those "sides" are of equal weight, you haven't looked into what
we're writing about.
<< Yes, we have all types of families who participate. >>
I doubt you have the kinds of families we're talking about.
There are families whose reason for homeschooling is to keep away from people
who aren't of their religion (their very narrow definition of their religion,
which is the purpose for the statement of faith HOMESCHOOL groups--you talked
about church statements of faith, which is not the same thing).
<<We're checking out the
awesome world and gaining knowledge and using it however we choose within our
own families. >>
The families I'm talking about don't check out "the awesome world." They
only check out the Bible and things written and spoken by people in their groups.
Do you doubt those groups exist?
Did you look at any of the links I sent yesterday?
Do you not WANT to know?
<<The parents have a deep quest for knowledge and this eager
anticipation is from "ideas" from our kids, and we all dig together and glean
what
we can.>>
I could find sites saying kids "ideas" are worthless, only what the parents
tell them to think is of value. Those are the people who are speaking for
unschoolers in general, working to change laws and to take over the government.
Do I think they'll succeed in the latter? No. They've already succeeded in
the former in some states. Do I think it's embarrassing and frustrating that
they're speaking for all homeschoolers.
Yes.
Also embarrassed there are people on an unschooling list who COULD be
learning from the world around them who prefer to say LA LA LA LA you can't make me
know this. LA LA LA LA I'm not looking at those websites.
<<Our kids thirst after deeper learning environments
and than they thrive in directions we never thought would've ever enter into
our minds, as adults :) We watch them grow and develop into lifelong
learners
persuing their goals in life.>>
Sure lots of homeschoolers do. That doesn't change the fact that lots don't
and don't WANT to.
<<I've met so many families who share the same educational philosophy--the
lifelong learning of unschooling. >>
I've met unschoolers too.
What does that have to do with the Christian Homeschooling Movement which
remains staunchly critical of unschooling?
<<Do I have an educational "plan" for my kids?
Yep, they are going to be encouraged to pursue their goals, and their
critical
thinking minds. >>
Then you're obviously not one of the members of that Christian Homeschooling
Movement.
<<A statement of faith is a list of doctrine/religious beliefs which a
person chooses to follow or not follow. Usually this is a document which
serves as
a basis or the basis for a house of worship. There IS freedom of religion
and if a person chooses to do this, FINE!!! >>
This statement entirely misses the point of the discussion.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/1/2003 5:19:50 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
outspoken on this issue. Neither are without their wrongdoings.
<I
I doubt you have the kinds of families we're talking about.
Yep, all types. One day, I would actually like to meet you Sandra.
<I
There are families whose reason for homeschooling is to keep away from people
who aren't of their religion (their very narrow definition of their religion,
which is the purpose for the statement of faith HOMESCHOOL groups--you talked
about church statements of faith, which is not the same thing).
Yep, met these folks too. They are an interesting bunch to "explore" with,
especially down in the Missouri caves!!
<I
The families I'm talking about don't check out "the awesome world." They
only check out the Bible and things written and spoken by people in their
groups.
Do you doubt those groups exist?
Did you look at any of the links I sent yesterday?
Do you not WANT to know?
I understand exactly whom you are referring to. I do not doubt in the
slightest about their existence. I've met them. Again, quite interesting people to
meet. They liked the visiting the synagogue trip.
<I
What do you think "secular" means?
I'm guessing because you wrote this, that your current group is not
"secular."
I understand what "secular" means. That is what was so odd about getting
banned from that group. When I joined it, I "assumed" unschoolers might be more
prevalant (? on spelling) in a "secular" group!!! Surprise, surprise, need I
say more!!!
I don't even refer to "secular" or "christian" in FIELD TRIPS!!!. We're
simply home educators and home education families. Just a bunch of Kids (ages
preborn-?)
<I
<<The bottom line is "sin" is a term used in religion. It is not an
educational methodology, such as "unschooling is sin".>>
The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". I
totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a religious term with
an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can be used
in the same phrase!!!
<I
<I
They're teaching
revisionist and particularly written-for-Christians history and science.
What do we, unschoolers, care what anybody chooses for their "teaching
tools"?? Let them, isn't that part of freedom to home education!!! The issue I
don't want is when the govt sticks its head in and says "be under a certain
curriculum/umbrella or don't home educate".
HSLDA completely agrees that the govt should NOT have any say about what
curriculum is used within home education families. HSLDA only asks that each
family have a "plan". I personally spoke, in person, with the attorney who
represents Missouri concerning this "plan". The bottom line, if anything happens
and we call them for representation, we need to give them whatever we can that
"proves" our kid has received their home education. Its simply giving them
"evidence" that they can show a judge, if need be, to BACK off and get out of our
HOME EDUCATION. They know what "unschooling" is. They also give full credit
to Mr. Holt and unschoolers for "spearheading" the home education movement.
Please do not get on the tangent about the cons of HSLDA. Believe me, I've
read many a links, ect. I remember awhile back, Sandra there was an
"unschooling" guide for use if you needed it to show the state as part of recordkeeping.
This is what we basically developed and showed HSLDA, and that was fine. It
was sketchy, but it was an outline of the main goals. Bottom line, if we
need them to represent them, they want "something" to show that judge.
<I
That doesn't change the fact that lots don't
and don't WANT to.
I understand this fact concerning a portion of the Christian Homeschooling
Group. They have made this choice. How in the world does this affect
unschoolers?? Unschoolers are brave enough to stand on their own 2 feet and continue
their journey. Some unschoolers have chosen they do not want to join groups
that require these statements. If they wanted to, and they tried, when they knew
they would not be accepted, why join? Find another group. What's the deal??
I'm confused on this one.
Ok, I know I missed a few in those long posts. Not intentional. No, I was
not ignoring you all, I get the digest version. Just the opposite, I enjoy a
healthy dose of communication.
Spc in Mo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> If you think those "sides" are of equal weight, you haven't looked intoI am not stating that one is bigger than the other, just that both sides are
> what
> we're writing about.
>
outspoken on this issue. Neither are without their wrongdoings.
<I
I doubt you have the kinds of families we're talking about.
Yep, all types. One day, I would actually like to meet you Sandra.
<I
There are families whose reason for homeschooling is to keep away from people
who aren't of their religion (their very narrow definition of their religion,
which is the purpose for the statement of faith HOMESCHOOL groups--you talked
about church statements of faith, which is not the same thing).
Yep, met these folks too. They are an interesting bunch to "explore" with,
especially down in the Missouri caves!!
<I
The families I'm talking about don't check out "the awesome world." They
only check out the Bible and things written and spoken by people in their
groups.
Do you doubt those groups exist?
Did you look at any of the links I sent yesterday?
Do you not WANT to know?
I understand exactly whom you are referring to. I do not doubt in the
slightest about their existence. I've met them. Again, quite interesting people to
meet. They liked the visiting the synagogue trip.
<I
What do you think "secular" means?
I'm guessing because you wrote this, that your current group is not
"secular."
I understand what "secular" means. That is what was so odd about getting
banned from that group. When I joined it, I "assumed" unschoolers might be more
prevalant (? on spelling) in a "secular" group!!! Surprise, surprise, need I
say more!!!
I don't even refer to "secular" or "christian" in FIELD TRIPS!!!. We're
simply home educators and home education families. Just a bunch of Kids (ages
preborn-?)
<I
<<The bottom line is "sin" is a term used in religion. It is not an
educational methodology, such as "unschooling is sin".>>
The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". I
totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a religious term with
an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can be used
in the same phrase!!!
<I
<I
They're teaching
revisionist and particularly written-for-Christians history and science.
What do we, unschoolers, care what anybody chooses for their "teaching
tools"?? Let them, isn't that part of freedom to home education!!! The issue I
don't want is when the govt sticks its head in and says "be under a certain
curriculum/umbrella or don't home educate".
HSLDA completely agrees that the govt should NOT have any say about what
curriculum is used within home education families. HSLDA only asks that each
family have a "plan". I personally spoke, in person, with the attorney who
represents Missouri concerning this "plan". The bottom line, if anything happens
and we call them for representation, we need to give them whatever we can that
"proves" our kid has received their home education. Its simply giving them
"evidence" that they can show a judge, if need be, to BACK off and get out of our
HOME EDUCATION. They know what "unschooling" is. They also give full credit
to Mr. Holt and unschoolers for "spearheading" the home education movement.
Please do not get on the tangent about the cons of HSLDA. Believe me, I've
read many a links, ect. I remember awhile back, Sandra there was an
"unschooling" guide for use if you needed it to show the state as part of recordkeeping.
This is what we basically developed and showed HSLDA, and that was fine. It
was sketchy, but it was an outline of the main goals. Bottom line, if we
need them to represent them, they want "something" to show that judge.
<I
That doesn't change the fact that lots don't
and don't WANT to.
I understand this fact concerning a portion of the Christian Homeschooling
Group. They have made this choice. How in the world does this affect
unschoolers?? Unschoolers are brave enough to stand on their own 2 feet and continue
their journey. Some unschoolers have chosen they do not want to join groups
that require these statements. If they wanted to, and they tried, when they knew
they would not be accepted, why join? Find another group. What's the deal??
I'm confused on this one.
Ok, I know I missed a few in those long posts. Not intentional. No, I was
not ignoring you all, I get the digest version. Just the opposite, I enjoy a
healthy dose of communication.
Spc in Mo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 10/2/03 1:33 AM, spcparents@... at spcparents@... wrote:
you're using to support your position are irrelevant to the discussion I'm
having.
The discussion I'm still having is passing on information about a political
movement within homeschooling that is invisible to many unschoolers and that
it is important to be aware of for 2 reasons: 1) so people can be aware that
not all people who seem to be working for homeschooling rights -- like HSLDA
-- are working towards what is best for all homeschoolers. They are working
towards what is best for their religious and political agenda, 2) so people
can offer informed opinions on the broad spectrum of what the word
homeschooling encompasses.
You seem to be arguing that divisions between people are wrong. No one here
is supporting *creating* division or keeping separate from other
homeschoolers.
You seem to be arguing that not all fundamentalist Christians want to be
separate. No one here has said that.
You seem to be arguing that informing people of a political movement will
serve to further divide us when we should be trying to work together. Well,
1) I know the Christian Homeschooling movement doesn't want to work *with*
me. But they do want me to believe they're working *for* me. 2) They want
the division to protect themselves. Why would I force a desire for working
together towards a common goal on them? That would be rude.
I think it's important for people to recognize the *effects* the Christian
Homeschool movement could have on their own ability to homeschool. I would
label Christian Homeschoolers manipulating wording in political activities
so that it implies they're representing all homeschoolers as wrong doing.
If they'd clearly represent their political actions as *only* representing
the Christian Homeschooling movement, then -- other than helping people
understand the breadth of practices that the word homeschooling encompasses
-- there'd be little reason to discuss them.
People often need a place to vent their frustrations with homeschooling
groups they thought were inclusive but turned out to exclusivistic (is that
a word?) Christian. It's sad that people get hurt but exclusive groups have
a right to exist. Being informed is the best cure. So people can avoid such
groups in the first place or at least go in knowing that their intent is to
exclude.
based. It says nothing about homeschooling style or how else they might
decide to separate themselves from other homeschooling groups.
On the other hand an inclusive group should be inclusive of styles as well
as race and religion. If it isn't, then the people running are ignorant
about the breadth of styles that homeschooling encompasses and are perhaps
assuming homeschooling is only the range they're familiar with.
But what does that have to do with the discussion about the existence of a
politically motivated Christian Homeschooling movement?
agree and is part of a political group of people who also agree. People
exist in large numbers who agree with the statement regardless of whether
you agree or not.
history they teach. She isn't bringing it up because it's wrong for them to
do what they do. She brought it up because it's *why* they don't want the
government to look closely at what they do. I'd also add in that they want
to limit how far the government can look at what they do because they want
to be able to parent in ways that the general population would frown on.
If we don't understand the goals of a group and why they're doing what
they're doing then it's harder to see the ramifications of legislation they
may try to get passed.
Most people don't like to be politically involved. They like to support
fellow homeschoolers who will doing the boring dull work for them. But they
should be aware that there are agendas homeschooling rights that are driving
homeschooling legislation.
To exercise diligence in teaching our children in a responsible way.
To use a clearly organized program of education to instruct our children.
To keep records of each child's educational progress.
and
That all the information presented on this form to be best of our knowledge
is true and accurate.
The first is vague and could be interpreted in whatever way HSLDA wants. It
would be a stretch for the second to describe unschooling. The third is
doable if necessary.
Could an unschooler claim that it's true and accurate to describe
unschooling as a "clearly organized program"? If HSLDA deems that your case
would harm their goal of keeping out government intrusion they can point to
that clause and say you misrepresented yourself.
represent. HSLDA is not legal insurance. They will choose which cases will
further their own agenda. They will decide how to present a case that will
help their political movement the most which may conflict with the needs of
the client.
same political agenda driving the Christian Homeschooling movement, then you
aren't understanding what the discussion is about.
homeschooling would hurt their agenda then they can decline to represent
you. They have no interest in helping unschoolers have an easier time
homeschooling. They only care about keeping the government out of the
families who hold the same views as they do. If your case would help them
further that, then they'd represent you. But if it hurt their goals, they'd
refuse.
homeschooling. Homeschooling is just the intersection between our lives and
theirs that we happen to be aware of. But there are lots of groups promoting
"family values" that are also part of the political movement. The wording of
petitions against the UN Children's Rights is designed to appeal to people
beyond fundamentalist Christianity so they can tap voting power that's
greater than their numbers. They're savvy, heavily funded, and well
organized. The opposing stance isn't. So which stance holds sway?
Some people assume that any homeschooling group is all inclusive and it
takes time to pick up the clues. Even a statement of faith may seem
innocuous.
Some people don't have a choice about groups and being beginners they want
others to help them. Most people, sadly -- and I think school plays a big
part -- are used to leaning on others to point them in the right direction.
Most people aren't used to seeing a problem -- lack of support for
unschooling -- and creating a solution -- creating their own group.
People should drop out of groups that don't suit them. They should start
their own.
But we can offer at least compassion (and help on starting their own groups)
when they are burned by something that they didn't even realize could get
hot.
Joyce
> I am not stating that one is bigger than the other, just that both sides areThere seem to be two separate discussions going on here. The arguments
> outspoken on this issue. Neither are without their wrongdoings.
you're using to support your position are irrelevant to the discussion I'm
having.
The discussion I'm still having is passing on information about a political
movement within homeschooling that is invisible to many unschoolers and that
it is important to be aware of for 2 reasons: 1) so people can be aware that
not all people who seem to be working for homeschooling rights -- like HSLDA
-- are working towards what is best for all homeschoolers. They are working
towards what is best for their religious and political agenda, 2) so people
can offer informed opinions on the broad spectrum of what the word
homeschooling encompasses.
You seem to be arguing that divisions between people are wrong. No one here
is supporting *creating* division or keeping separate from other
homeschoolers.
You seem to be arguing that not all fundamentalist Christians want to be
separate. No one here has said that.
You seem to be arguing that informing people of a political movement will
serve to further divide us when we should be trying to work together. Well,
1) I know the Christian Homeschooling movement doesn't want to work *with*
me. But they do want me to believe they're working *for* me. 2) They want
the division to protect themselves. Why would I force a desire for working
together towards a common goal on them? That would be rude.
> Neither are without their wrongdoings.What kind of wrongdoings are you referring to?
I think it's important for people to recognize the *effects* the Christian
Homeschool movement could have on their own ability to homeschool. I would
label Christian Homeschoolers manipulating wording in political activities
so that it implies they're representing all homeschoolers as wrong doing.
If they'd clearly represent their political actions as *only* representing
the Christian Homeschooling movement, then -- other than helping people
understand the breadth of practices that the word homeschooling encompasses
-- there'd be little reason to discuss them.
People often need a place to vent their frustrations with homeschooling
groups they thought were inclusive but turned out to exclusivistic (is that
a word?) Christian. It's sad that people get hurt but exclusive groups have
a right to exist. Being informed is the best cure. So people can avoid such
groups in the first place or at least go in knowing that their intent is to
exclude.
> I understand what "secular" means. That is what was so odd about gettingSo it seems you don't know what secular means. Secular means not religiously
> banned from that group. When I joined it, I "assumed" unschoolers might be
> more
> prevalant (? on spelling) in a "secular" group!!! Surprise, surprise, need I
> say more!!!
based. It says nothing about homeschooling style or how else they might
decide to separate themselves from other homeschooling groups.
On the other hand an inclusive group should be inclusive of styles as well
as race and religion. If it isn't, then the people running are ignorant
about the breadth of styles that homeschooling encompasses and are perhaps
assuming homeschooling is only the range they're familiar with.
> I don't even refer to "secular" or "christian" in FIELD TRIPS!!!. We'reGood for you!
> simply home educators and home education families. Just a bunch of Kids (ages
> preborn-?)
But what does that have to do with the discussion about the existence of a
politically motivated Christian Homeschooling movement?
> The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". IIt is irrelevant whether you agree or not. The person who wrote it does
> totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a religious term
> with
> an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can be used
> in the same phrase!!!
agree and is part of a political group of people who also agree. People
exist in large numbers who agree with the statement regardless of whether
you agree or not.
> What do we, unschoolers, care what anybody chooses for their "teachingThen you missed the point of why Sandra mentioned the types of science and
> tools"?? Let them, isn't that part of freedom to home education!!!
history they teach. She isn't bringing it up because it's wrong for them to
do what they do. She brought it up because it's *why* they don't want the
government to look closely at what they do. I'd also add in that they want
to limit how far the government can look at what they do because they want
to be able to parent in ways that the general population would frown on.
If we don't understand the goals of a group and why they're doing what
they're doing then it's harder to see the ramifications of legislation they
may try to get passed.
> The issueMost people would willing to back legislation that ensures that freedom.
> I
> don't want is when the govt sticks its head in and says "be under a certain
> curriculum/umbrella or don't home educate".
Most people don't like to be politically involved. They like to support
fellow homeschoolers who will doing the boring dull work for them. But they
should be aware that there are agendas homeschooling rights that are driving
homeschooling legislation.
> HSLDA completely agrees that the govt should NOT have any say about whatOn their application it says that the person signing it agrees:
> curriculum is used within home education families. HSLDA only asks that each
> family have a "plan".
To exercise diligence in teaching our children in a responsible way.
To use a clearly organized program of education to instruct our children.
To keep records of each child's educational progress.
and
That all the information presented on this form to be best of our knowledge
is true and accurate.
The first is vague and could be interpreted in whatever way HSLDA wants. It
would be a stretch for the second to describe unschooling. The third is
doable if necessary.
Could an unschooler claim that it's true and accurate to describe
unschooling as a "clearly organized program"? If HSLDA deems that your case
would harm their goal of keeping out government intrusion they can point to
that clause and say you misrepresented yourself.
> I personally spoke, in person, with the attorney whoThey also state clearly somewhere that they can pick and choose who to
> represents Missouri concerning this "plan". The bottom line, if anything
> happens
> and we call them for representation, we need to give them whatever we can that
> "proves" our kid has received their home education. Its simply giving them
> "evidence" that they can show a judge, if need be, to BACK off and get out of
> our
> HOME EDUCATION. They know what "unschooling" is. They also give full credit
> to Mr. Holt and unschoolers for "spearheading" the home education movement.
represent. HSLDA is not legal insurance. They will choose which cases will
further their own agenda. They will decide how to present a case that will
help their political movement the most which may conflict with the needs of
the client.
> Please do not get on the tangent about the cons of HSLDA.If you don't see how HSLDA ties in and that their political agenda is the
same political agenda driving the Christian Homeschooling movement, then you
aren't understanding what the discussion is about.
> Bottom line, if weObviously they want paper work to create a case from. But if your style of
> need them to represent them, they want "something" to show that judge.
homeschooling would hurt their agenda then they can decline to represent
you. They have no interest in helping unschoolers have an easier time
homeschooling. They only care about keeping the government out of the
families who hold the same views as they do. If your case would help them
further that, then they'd represent you. But if it hurt their goals, they'd
refuse.
> I understand this fact concerning a portion of the Christian HomeschoolingBig money behind a big political movement that extends far beyond
> Group. They have made this choice. How in the world does this affect
> unschoolers??
homeschooling. Homeschooling is just the intersection between our lives and
theirs that we happen to be aware of. But there are lots of groups promoting
"family values" that are also part of the political movement. The wording of
petitions against the UN Children's Rights is designed to appeal to people
beyond fundamentalist Christianity so they can tap voting power that's
greater than their numbers. They're savvy, heavily funded, and well
organized. The opposing stance isn't. So which stance holds sway?
> Unschoolers are brave enough to stand on their own 2 feet andSome people join perfectly fine groups that then turn Statement of Faith.
> continue
> their journey. Some unschoolers have chosen they do not want to join groups
> that require these statements. If they wanted to, and they tried, when they
> knew
> they would not be accepted, why join? Find another group. What's the deal??
> I'm confused on this one.
Some people assume that any homeschooling group is all inclusive and it
takes time to pick up the clues. Even a statement of faith may seem
innocuous.
Some people don't have a choice about groups and being beginners they want
others to help them. Most people, sadly -- and I think school plays a big
part -- are used to leaning on others to point them in the right direction.
Most people aren't used to seeing a problem -- lack of support for
unschooling -- and creating a solution -- creating their own group.
People should drop out of groups that don't suit them. They should start
their own.
But we can offer at least compassion (and help on starting their own groups)
when they are burned by something that they didn't even realize could get
hot.
Joyce
Julie Bogart
Joyce: The wording of
petitions against the UN Children's Rights is designed to appeal
to people
beyond fundamentalist Christianity so they can tap voting power
that's
greater than their numbers. They're savvy, heavily funded, and
well
organized. The opposing stance isn't. So which stance holds
sway?
--
I had to read this twice. The Christian right always maintains tht
is is the *other* side that is heavily-funded, orgbanzied and savvy
while the Christina right is asleep to their duty to God and not
generous enough in their pocketbooks or active enough
politically. Wonder which is truer?
I enjoyed your whole post Joyce. What's amazing to me is that
there is anyone who homeschools who *isn't* aware of the
Christian fundamentalist homeschooling world.
The other day, I rec'd an invitation to hear a "well-known" speaker
(never heard of him) defend our right to spank our children and
how the government is interfering with that right. He plans to
provide humorous situations that resulted from spanking in
families and cite statistics proving that spanked children are
better-behaved than those who aren't. Finally, he plans to explain
how the government is opposing our freedom to parent as we
wish. He's been on national TV shows where people are
stunned by his radical approach to parenting.
I rec'd this flyer at a homeschool co-op that is deliberately
inclusive of all Christian faiths, though not inclusive of all faiths.
The leadership didn't see a problem with the distribution of this
flyer to all the constituents (not realizing that not every Christian
spanks). But I've been around this form of homeschooling my
entier homeschooling life so it wasn't so shocking as it was a
reminder that that part of homeschooling is alive and well and
often, dominant.
Julie B
petitions against the UN Children's Rights is designed to appeal
to people
beyond fundamentalist Christianity so they can tap voting power
that's
greater than their numbers. They're savvy, heavily funded, and
well
organized. The opposing stance isn't. So which stance holds
sway?
--
I had to read this twice. The Christian right always maintains tht
is is the *other* side that is heavily-funded, orgbanzied and savvy
while the Christina right is asleep to their duty to God and not
generous enough in their pocketbooks or active enough
politically. Wonder which is truer?
I enjoyed your whole post Joyce. What's amazing to me is that
there is anyone who homeschools who *isn't* aware of the
Christian fundamentalist homeschooling world.
The other day, I rec'd an invitation to hear a "well-known" speaker
(never heard of him) defend our right to spank our children and
how the government is interfering with that right. He plans to
provide humorous situations that resulted from spanking in
families and cite statistics proving that spanked children are
better-behaved than those who aren't. Finally, he plans to explain
how the government is opposing our freedom to parent as we
wish. He's been on national TV shows where people are
stunned by his radical approach to parenting.
I rec'd this flyer at a homeschool co-op that is deliberately
inclusive of all Christian faiths, though not inclusive of all faiths.
The leadership didn't see a problem with the distribution of this
flyer to all the constituents (not realizing that not every Christian
spanks). But I've been around this form of homeschooling my
entier homeschooling life so it wasn't so shocking as it was a
reminder that that part of homeschooling is alive and well and
often, dominant.
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/2/03 12:44:09 AM, spcparents@... writes:
<< I am not stating that one is bigger than the other, just that both sides
are
outspoken on this issue. Neither are without their wrongdoings. >>
Regarding the politics of homeschooling in the English speaking world, what
would you say are the "wrongdoings" of unschoolers? Of secular homeschoolers?
<<The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". I
totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a religious term
with
an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can be used
in the same phrase!!!>>
Lots of people have done it, and explained their reasoning with Bible
references.
<<They're teaching
revisionist and particularly written-for-Christians history and science.
<<What do we, unschoolers, care what anybody chooses for their "teaching
tools"?? >>
As to teaching, I don't much care.
As to politics, they make us look stupid. (They make themselves look stupid,
and other homeschoolers by extension.)
As to the social ramificatons, my children will grow up and live side by
sidewith people who have been fed a pack of lies their whole lives, AND part of
the package is that anyone who disputes anything they've been taught is speaking
with the voice of Satan to test their faith and tempt their soul. But that's
not what we've been talking about here at all. We've been talking about the
politics of homes schooling, and the realities.
<<HSLDA completely agrees that the govt should NOT have any say about what
curriculum is used within home education families. >>
Right. As long as they're using a curriculum.
<< The bottom line, if anything happens
and we call them for representation, we need to give them whatever we can
that
"proves" our kid has received their home education. >>
They won't represent unschoolers.
<< They know what "unschooling" is. They also give full credit
to Mr. Holt and unschoolers for "spearheading" the home education movement.
Quote something, show us a website, or something. Because what I've seen in
writing from them is that Christian Homeschoolers made homeschooling legal in
every state. It's a lie, but they tell it.
<<Please do not get on the tangent about the cons of HSLDA. >>
It's central, not tangential. It's at the core of what all homeschoolers
need to have at least a passing awareness of, if they intend to speak for
homeschooelrs in general at any level. And it helps just for their own awareness so
when they're in a rough conversation about homeschooling they're not caught
deer-in-the-headlights.
<< I remember awhile back, Sandra there was an
"unschooling" guide for use if you needed it to show the state as part of
recordkeeping.>>
Maybe you mean Carol Narigon's sample for the state of Ohio. It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
I seriously doubt HSLDA would think much of it. And it wasn't for
recordkeeping, it was for showing the state what a family intended to "cover."
<< This is what we basically developed and showed HSLDA, and that was fine.
It
was sketchy, but it was an outline of the main goals. Bottom line, if we
need them to represent them, they want "something" to show that judge.>>
So are you signed up with HSLDA? Is that why you're trying to get people not
to look at it, not to discuss it?
<<How in the world does this affect
unschoolers?? Unschoolers are brave enough to stand on their own 2 feet and
continue
their journey. >>
We've been trying to tell you how it affects unschoolers and ALL
homeschoolers.
Spc in Mo, how long have you been an unschooler, if you are an unschooler?
How old are your children?
Sandra
<< I am not stating that one is bigger than the other, just that both sides
are
outspoken on this issue. Neither are without their wrongdoings. >>
Regarding the politics of homeschooling in the English speaking world, what
would you say are the "wrongdoings" of unschoolers? Of secular homeschoolers?
<<The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". I
totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a religious term
with
an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can be used
in the same phrase!!!>>
Lots of people have done it, and explained their reasoning with Bible
references.
<<They're teaching
revisionist and particularly written-for-Christians history and science.
<<What do we, unschoolers, care what anybody chooses for their "teaching
tools"?? >>
As to teaching, I don't much care.
As to politics, they make us look stupid. (They make themselves look stupid,
and other homeschoolers by extension.)
As to the social ramificatons, my children will grow up and live side by
sidewith people who have been fed a pack of lies their whole lives, AND part of
the package is that anyone who disputes anything they've been taught is speaking
with the voice of Satan to test their faith and tempt their soul. But that's
not what we've been talking about here at all. We've been talking about the
politics of homes schooling, and the realities.
<<HSLDA completely agrees that the govt should NOT have any say about what
curriculum is used within home education families. >>
Right. As long as they're using a curriculum.
<< The bottom line, if anything happens
and we call them for representation, we need to give them whatever we can
that
"proves" our kid has received their home education. >>
They won't represent unschoolers.
<< They know what "unschooling" is. They also give full credit
to Mr. Holt and unschoolers for "spearheading" the home education movement.
>>Cite something to prove this statement, please.
Quote something, show us a website, or something. Because what I've seen in
writing from them is that Christian Homeschoolers made homeschooling legal in
every state. It's a lie, but they tell it.
<<Please do not get on the tangent about the cons of HSLDA. >>
It's central, not tangential. It's at the core of what all homeschoolers
need to have at least a passing awareness of, if they intend to speak for
homeschooelrs in general at any level. And it helps just for their own awareness so
when they're in a rough conversation about homeschooling they're not caught
deer-in-the-headlights.
<< I remember awhile back, Sandra there was an
"unschooling" guide for use if you needed it to show the state as part of
recordkeeping.>>
Maybe you mean Carol Narigon's sample for the state of Ohio. It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
I seriously doubt HSLDA would think much of it. And it wasn't for
recordkeeping, it was for showing the state what a family intended to "cover."
<< This is what we basically developed and showed HSLDA, and that was fine.
It
was sketchy, but it was an outline of the main goals. Bottom line, if we
need them to represent them, they want "something" to show that judge.>>
So are you signed up with HSLDA? Is that why you're trying to get people not
to look at it, not to discuss it?
<<How in the world does this affect
unschoolers?? Unschoolers are brave enough to stand on their own 2 feet and
continue
their journey. >>
We've been trying to tell you how it affects unschoolers and ALL
homeschoolers.
Spc in Mo, how long have you been an unschooler, if you are an unschooler?
How old are your children?
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 06:44 AM, Fetteroll wrote:
Can you use "sin" and adultery in the same sentence? "Sin" and murder?
"Sin" and dishonesty? Unschooling is like adultery in some people's
minds. It is not living up to what God demands of us - not obeying the
commands of God in regard to how to be married/how to raise children.
-pam
>> The article which was referred to that listed "unschooling as sin". IMost things that are considered "sins" are not "religious" in nature.
>> totally disagreed with that statement. The author is mixing a
>> religious term
>> with
>> an "educational method". There is no way "unschooling" and "sin" can
>> be used
>> in the same phrase!!!
Can you use "sin" and adultery in the same sentence? "Sin" and murder?
"Sin" and dishonesty? Unschooling is like adultery in some people's
minds. It is not living up to what God demands of us - not obeying the
commands of God in regard to how to be married/how to raise children.
-pam