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In a message dated 9/29/03 12:55:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Someone wrote:
<<Halfwaythrough Little House on the Prairie, Jess began to say how rude
Ma was and that he didn't like her. He would get really indignant at the
way she spoke
to her girls>>

Someone else wrote:
<< Good for him!!! >>


Well!
I agree.
But because these books are so popular with Christian homeschooling families,
it did occur to me how that kind of statement would be taken on a list
focussed on "Christian values." They would be swift to tell you not only how
and
why to read the books, but which reactions were acceptable in the children
who
heard them.

Objection to a parent exercising her God-given right and duty to discipline
her children would not have been among them.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

This summer our family joined the local homeschooling group. Both kids have
been clamoring to meet other homeschooled kids. The kids on our block are
either older than Moly, or younger than Jack. Not that that is a bad thing, but
neither have much in common with the kids in our neighborhood. I tried to explain
that meeting the homeschooled kids in our area wouldn't have much impact as
their parents generally do school-at-home and therefore would not have the same
freedom to play at will as Moly and Jack do. We joined anyway, the kids were
happy, for about five minutes.

First we went to a picnic. Moly struck up a conversation with some girls. One
said to Moly; "I wish I could dress like you." That confused Moly. A little
boy said to Jack; "You can't wear Sponge Bob t-shirts." Jack wanted to know why
and was told matter of factly that he would go straight to hell. Jack found
that funny, I did not. Moly asked the girl why she wanted to dress like her,
and said she thought the dress the girl was wearing was very pretty. The girl
said; "You wouldn't think so if you were me." and pointed out her four sisters,
all in the same style dress, all in the same colors. Three girls had dark blue
stripes with smaller white stripes, and two had large white stripes with
small dark blue stripes, all had either blue or white sashes. All had the same
long, straight hair, and all had the same shoes. Moly asked the girl why she
didn't just put on jeans and a t-shirt, and the girl said she only had one pair of
jeans and a blouse, and she only wore those to work in the garden or to feed
and care for her rabbits. :o(

The discussion between Moly and this girl turned to what curriculum did
Moly's mom use to teach her. (Moly had to have the word curriculum explained to
her.) And the girl was horrified to hear that Moly's mom used no such thing. I
think she was more shocked that public schooled kids are when they hear that. I
think public schooled kids, as institutionalized as they are, can at least
accept that there are some parents in the world who do what they dream of. Then
the girl wanted to know how Moly (if her mom didn't use a curriculum) learned
about how God wants her to live her life. Moly just shrugged her shoulders and
said that God wants her to be happy no matter what she does.

Moly didn't understand the intricacies of the conversation and how to read
between the lines of what the girl was saying to her. OTOH, the girl couldn't
grasp what Moly was saying either. She had no concept of freedom or even wanting
to do something and actually doing it. No free thinking. No rights. Ever.

Fast forward to a parent meeting. Guest speakers giving a talk on how to keep
the "Marriage Spark Alive" As a couple or marriage must come first, we have
to provide a strong front to the kids. All this talk of child centered lives is
detrimental to a marriage, and to the children as well. If they don't see us
as a united front then they will run right over us. They are children to be
trained up properly in the way God has prescribed to us. Discussion afterward
and Darin stood up and said "lets go, NOW!" We went home. I unsubscribed from
the groups email lists. Two days later we got an email from one of the leaders
stating she was sad to see we had unsubscribed, and was our intention to not
participate in the group anymore, and if so how could she help. I wasn't going
to write back, but Darin did. He wrote, "We are not at war with our children."
I think that answered their questions.

~Nancy

Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Elbert Hubbard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

I wasn't going
> to write back, but Darin did. He wrote, "We are not at war with our
children."
> I think that answered their questions.

Good for him! Do you have any other options, even if inconvenient?
Tia
leschke@...

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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In a message dated 9/30/03 10:59:14 AM Central Daylight Time, leschke@...
writes:
Good for him! Do you have any other options, even if inconvenient?
Tia
leschke@...
#############################

There is an eclectic, secular group in Kansas City, and over the past few
months we have discovered three other unschooling families, and one almost
unschooling family all with in an hours drive or so. Not convenient for just getting
together to play any old time, but enough that if we all plan, we can get
together every few weeks or so. Not enough for my kids taste, but better than
before.

I guess my point is that there is a difference between people who homeschool,
Christian or not, and Christian Homeschoolers. The families I know that are
Christian and homeschoolers are vastly different from the families who are
homeschoolers because they are Christian. It is very much an us/them ideology.
They (Christian Homeschoolers) believe that they started the movement. I won't
argue the semantics of who started what when and why with them. Both camps
evolved around the same time. Honestly though the people who started the Christian
Homeschooling Movement wouldn't be where they are today without those who came
before us. They won't admit it, but it is there.

If you don't know about the Christian Homeschool movement, I strongly suggest
learning about it. If you live in the Bible Belt, and are a homeschooler, you
learn to deal with it. If you live in a more progressive, less conservative
area of the country and aren't exposed to the Christian Homeschoolers ways,
then hearing about it is shocking.

I see the jumper-wearing, long hair, meek minded female child/wife around
here all the time. I know several families that have chaperones for their
females. If Dad can't do it, then an older son or a brother of Mom or Dad will
accompany the females and younger boys out to the store or other places. Darin sees
families in his store all the time like this and likes to call me during the
day to tell me a "Wife" was just in. He calls them this because usually the
family will be in to buy something and after a discussion, sometimes a prayer,
the father will say things like; "Okay Wife, we will get XYZ." or "Wife, write
the man a check."

Shocking? Yes. Out there? Yes. True? Yes. Do you need to be aware of it? A
resounding YES.

~Nancy

Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Elbert Hubbard


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 9/29/03 11:25:19 PM, Dnowens@... writes:

<< Then
the girl wanted to know how Moly (if her mom didn't use a curriculum) learned
about how God wants her to live her life. Moly just shrugged her shoulders
and
said that God wants her to be happy no matter what she does. >>

That caused me an audible whimper on intake of breath.
It was quiet, but it was scary, because in the story that far, I had been
identifying with the girls who was told how to dress and to fear hell.

<<She had no concept of freedom or even wanting
to do something and actually doing it. No free thinking. No rights. Ever.>>

I'm glad you told that story. There are lots of people who have never been
around such families. Those families aren't rare, either, they just don't mix.
There are lots of homeschoolers who seem to consider them of some other
place, some other era. But they're of October 2003, and won't go away anytime
soon.

As much time as unschooling dads spend with their kids, those dads spend on
political activism designed to do things which would NOT benefit our children
in any way.

Sandra