David Albert
K WORTHEN
David,
I just wanted to tell you that I bought your book today. I'm looking forward
to reading it....(in all my free time, LOL).
Amy
I just wanted to tell you that I bought your book today. I'm looking forward
to reading it....(in all my free time, LOL).
Amy
Jim & Erin Selvage
David,
I just love the fact that you say your daughter is enrolled in recess! Our big joke around here is that if we enrolled the kids in anything else at school (they are in band and sports), we would pick lunch and recess, because those are the only things we can think of that would be really beneficial! I am sure the school would probably let us too, because they get extra funds if we do! We had a neighbor boy over for supper one evening, and we were joking around about this. Then last week when I stopped by his house to talk to his mom, he asked me if I had enrolled the kids for lunch and recess yet! I explained that we were just kidding, but he still thought it would be a cool idea!
Have a good day,
erin in ND
[email protected] wrote:
I just love the fact that you say your daughter is enrolled in recess! Our big joke around here is that if we enrolled the kids in anything else at school (they are in band and sports), we would pick lunch and recess, because those are the only things we can think of that would be really beneficial! I am sure the school would probably let us too, because they get extra funds if we do! We had a neighbor boy over for supper one evening, and we were joking around about this. Then last week when I stopped by his house to talk to his mom, he asked me if I had enrolled the kids for lunch and recess yet! I explained that we were just kidding, but he still thought it would be a cool idea!
Have a good day,
erin in ND
[email protected] wrote:
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> There are 19 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> 2. unschool grad
> From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
> 3. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: Tddy_Br@...
> 4. Re: intro and comment
> From: metta <metta@...>
> 5. Re: David Albert
> From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
> 6. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: "K WORTHEN" <kworthen@...>
> 7. Re: David Albert
> From: susan <fxfireob@...>
> 8. Need Help: Diversity in Homeschooling?
> From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
> 9. lazy was unschool grad
> From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>
> 10. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> 11. Re: BABIES!!!
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
> 12. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
> 13. Re: BABIES!!!
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
> 14. Re: 'shyness'
> From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>
> 15. Re: unschooling fallicies?
> From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>
> 16. Re: 'shyness'
> From: susan <fxfireob@...>
> 17. Re: BABIES!!!
> From: "K WORTHEN" <kworthen@...>
> 18. Re: from unschool grad -shyness
> From: Anita Bower <homequaker@...>
> 19. diploma for Army enlistment
> From: hjshaltz@...
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:00:18 -0400
> From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
> A
>
> BandLHaney@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > >From: unschoolr2@...
> > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > >To: [email protected]
> > > >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
> > > >
> > > >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or
> > misconceptions
> > > >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the
> > very
> > > >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch
> > TV or
> > > >play
> > > >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> > > >Thanks
> > > >Teri
> >
> > Teri,
> > How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or they
> > have
> > to have textbooks to learn from.
> > Lisa
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:57:26 CDT
> From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
> Subject: unschool grad
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm probably late on this thread but I'm enjoying it!
>
> Hafidha wrote (very patiently I thought): "By lazy I mean the inclination to
> be inert."
>
> If one needs a definition of lazy, I have never seen a better one! This made
> me laugh out loud!
>
> Carry on...
>
> Annette
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:57:01 -0500
> From: Tddy_Br@...
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> You mean I didn't have to get rid of all my shoes and invest in soybeans
> when I started this??????
> (ROFL) (new to homeschooling and enjoying these myths immensely!!)
>
> GB,
> Sandi
>
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:00:18 -0400 "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> writes:
> > That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
> > A
> >
> > BandLHaney@... wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >From: unschoolr2@...
> > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or
> > > misconceptions
> > > > >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard
> > the
> > > very
> > > > >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and
> > watch
> > > TV or
> > > > >play
> > > > >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> > > > >Thanks
> > > > >Teri
> > >
> > > Teri,
> > > How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or
> > they
> > > have
> > > to have textbooks to learn from.
> > > Lisa
> > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> > >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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> Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:35:26 -0700
> From: metta <metta@...>
> Subject: Re: intro and comment
>
> on 4/17/00 11:50 AM, hjshaltz@... wrote:
>
> > The elder is in the Army,
> > has been since before he turned 18, and is doing very well. Getting him in
> > the Army was a challenge, as our Clonlara diploma was not recognized as
> > valid. But we got past that hurdle,
>
> Hi Holly! Nice to 'meet' you! If you have a chance, I would really like to
> hear more about how you got past this hurdle. I'm gathering info on
> college/career stuff and I'd love to hear the details.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Thea
> metta@...
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:55:41 -0700
> From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
> Subject: Re: David Albert
>
> susan wrote:
>
> > hi,
> >
> > i read this book last fall. i enjoyed it and felt it was a good
> > portrayal of one family's approach to opening up a vast world for a
> > child by following her lead. but would have loved to read more about
> > your younger daughter (and your wife) and her learning experiences
> > because it would shown a more diverse picture since their styles and
> > approaches seem so different.
>
> Dear Susan --
>
> I would have loved to have written more about Meera as well, but felt it
> was more important to end at Aliyah's 10th birthday (for reasons I state
> in Skylark). Meera, by the way, is doing just fine! She is an
> extremely talented gymnast (spends about 20 hours a week at the gym),
> has taught herself to play the flute at an extremely high level, is
> currently working her way through Mozart's 23rd Piano Concerto, and
> occasionally (though only occasionally) opens a book. She reads well!
> it's just that she has decided she has better things to do with her
> time!
>
> At the beginning of the year, Meera started taking band with the local
> 5th grade. About the 5th week in, the teacher decided she should teach
> the other kids (she herself had never had even a single lesson) -- well,
> we didn't allow this to go on very long, got her moved to 6th grade
> band, where she is bored, and stays in with promises that she'll be in
> the 8th grade band next year. (she's only 9) Meanwhile, she may have
> been the only kid in Washington state enrolled in recess! Recess
> followed band, and she wanted to go to the schoolyard with her friends,
> so they made us enroll her (allows the school district to capture
> revenue! and they think it helps them with liability, though I can't
> figure out how.)
>
> Yes, my younger is very different from my older one, but the way we go
> about meeting her learning aspirations does not differ in any
> substantive way. My wife no longer delivers newspapers (she's still a
> massage therapist) -- she now cares intermittently for Alzheimer's
> patients in their homes, and has lots of fascinating information to
> bring home!
>
> > overall i felt it was honest and fascinating, especially your ability
> > to utilizes your community because this is an area i am very weak
> > at. but when you have a child whose interests lay well outside your
> > own, in your case music and in mine robotics, looking toward the
> > community would be the next logically step. i think you covered the
> > 'how to' part very well and you showed just how exciting life can be
> > when a family embrace learning as a lifestyle.
> >
>
> Thanks! You'll find a new interview with me on related subjects in the
> May/June Growing Without Schooling -- and Meera is on the cover!
>
> david
>
> --
> "And the Skylark Sings with Me" is to homeschooling what Tom Paine's
> "Common Sense" was to the American Revolution."--Greg Bates, Common
> Courage Press. To read a sample chapter or the foreword, and to get
> information about ordering a signed copy, visit www.skylarksings.com or
> send an e-mail to shantinik@...
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:18:46 -0400
> From: "K WORTHEN" <kworthen@...>
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> Ann,
> I couldn't help but chuckle when I read your response because I do wear sandals, I am a vegetarian, and although I don't consider myself a hippie, a lot of other people might:)
> Amy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: A. Yates
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
>
> That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and hippies.
> A
> BandLHaney@... wrote:
>
>
> > >From: unschoolr2@...
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
> > >
> > >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or misconceptions
> > >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the very
> > >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch TV or
> > >play
> > >video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> > >Thanks
> > >Teri
>
> Teri,
> How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach" them or they have
> to have textbooks to learn from.
> Lisa
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:25:24 +0100
> From: susan <fxfireob@...>
> Subject: Re: David Albert
>
> hi david,
>
> thanks for the update! sorry i didn't use meera's name but i literally
> just loaned your book out so i couldn't look it up. i remember the thing
> about aliyah's b-day, it makes sense and imo the book didn't lose anything
> by this. i guess because my son is only 4 those early years, which meera
> was in during much of the book, are still very fascinating. thanks again.
> i look forward to the new gws mag.
>
> best wishes,
> susan,
> austin,tx
> 'unity through diversity'
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:24:32 -0700
> From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
> Subject: Need Help: Diversity in Homeschooling?
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> I received a call this afternoon from a reporter working on an article for
> a professional magazine in the Washington, DC area. She's trying to
> determine if there are any statistics available on the racial/ethnic
> diversity of homeschooling families. Anyone know any resources, articles,
> or websites I could send her to? Thanks!
>
> Helen
> * * * *
> Helen Hegener, Managing Editor
> Home Education Magazine
> HEM-Editor@...
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:26:23 +1200
> From: Brown <mjcmbrwn@...>
> Subject: lazy was unschool grad
>
> Annette,
> You talk of patience:
>
> > Hafidha wrote (very patiently I thought): "By lazy I mean the inclination to
> > be inert."
> >
> > If one needs a definition of lazy, I have never seen a better one! This made
> > me laugh out loud!
>
> I think 'patiently' refers better to the parent who allows his / her child the
> space to come to activity on their own. I have never seen an unschooled child
> (and rarely a schooled child) who has an 'inclination to be inert'. This
> description would only apply to a child who had had all initiative beaten out of
> them (literally or figuratively) by adults. Non-action is not necessarily
> inertness or laziness. Some people are thinkers, and some take a lot longer to
> get through thinking. I don't believe it is possible to know what is happenning
> inside someone else's head. You ask a kid 'what are you thinking about?' and
> s/he answers 'nothing', you may think s/he is being lazy or inert, I would
> assume that they didn't want to talk to me about it.
>
> In my experience, a 'bored' child left alone to be bored (still talk to them but
> don't nag), trusted to come through, will eventually burst forth in activity and
> creativity, often into a totally new interest.
>
> IMO it is, yet again, a matter of trusting our children - and being able to keep
> trusting, sometimes for a looong time.
>
> Carol
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:28:41 -0400
> From: "A. Yates" <hooperck@...>
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> Hee... Heee.... Amy,
> I wear sandals too. I am mostly vegetarian, but I'm too young to be a
> hippie! (33)
> :) But, I wouldn't mind being called one.
> Ann
>
> K WORTHEN wrote:
>
> > Ann,I couldn't help but chuckle when I read your response because I do
> > wear sandals, I am a vegetarian, and although I don't consider myself
> > a hippie, a lot of other people might:)Amy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: A. Yates
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 3:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > That all homeschoolers wear sandals, are vegetarians, and
> > hippies.
> > A
> >
> > BandLHaney@... wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >From: unschoolr2@...
> > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
> > > > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 01:47:12 EDT
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths
> > > or misconceptions
> > > > >about unschooling and unschooling families. We have
> > > all heard the very
> > > > >sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just
> > > sit and watch TV or
> > > > >play
> > > > >video games all day. What are some others that you
> > > have heard?
> > > > >Thanks
> > > > >Teri
> > >
> > > Teri,
> > > How about, they can never learn beyond what I can "teach"
> > > them or they have
> > > to have textbooks to learn from.
> > > Lisa
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and
> > > more!
> > > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe:
> > > mailto:[email protected]
> > >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:51:14 +0100
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: BABIES!!!
>
> hahahaha!!! I've been told we can't have more than 3 cos we'd have to get an MPV!!! Dh wouldn't be seen DEAD with one on the drive <bg>
>
> I've always wanted 4 or 6. So I think after the next, any more may have to be 'accidents.' LMAO :-}
>
> Tracy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: K WORTHEN
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] BABIES!!!
>
> I just had to chime in on this one. I was so disapointed when dh told me it
> wasn't realistic for me to keep having babies and I said I would stop once
> we had grand kids LOL. Unfortunatly due to space limitations I think we're
> going to have to be done at 3, althogh we won't do anything permantly. If we
> ever get out of our tiny little 2br. house I'd be pregnant with #4 as soon
> as we sign the purchase and sale.<G>
> Amy
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 01:15:04 +0100
> From: "Tracy Oldfield" <Tracy@...-online.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> Hahahaha!! I went to a LLL District Conference recently, where I 'networked,' as one does, as is a functon of such events. The following weekend we happened to be in the neighbourhood (within 5 miles) of someone I'd got chatting with, so we dropped in for a visit. Her 18yo daughter arrived from minding their shop and discovered it was brown rice for tea. 'La Leche League Food!' she exclaimed. We then made a big list of the League stereotypes, can't remember them now cos I'm tired, but it's so familiar, anyone seen to be on the fringe gets tarred with the same brush. And actually, I wear sandals, in Summer, but I love steak and chips. I love reading, but we have a big tv with dolby sound system, specialist hi-fi with vinyl collection intact and two computers, one with Internet connection. Oh, the conflicts! This family can't possibly be doing something as radical as unschooling!!
>
> Diatribe over :-)
> Tracy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: A. Yates
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 11:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] unschooling fallicies?
>
> Hee... Heee.... Amy,
> I wear sandals too. I am mostly vegetarian, but I'm too young to be a hippie! (33)
> :) But, I wouldn't mind being called one.
> Ann
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:47:51 -0600
> From: Sonia Ulan <sulan@...>
> Subject: Re: BABIES!!!
>
> To all the "Family-Bed" co-sleepers out there;
>
> I remember being really impressed when I once read that Paul and Lynda
> McCartney restricted themselves to two bedrooms in their home and they
> slept with their four children. Despite having a rather grand English
> estate and "all the money in the world", they still had their
> priorities: BABIES!!! And close family intimacy.
>
> Now that's a testimonial.
>
> Sonia
>
> susan wrote:
> >
> > it sounds like you need to start knocking down some walls and instead of carpet
> > get wall-to-wall mattress:) i love sharing a bed. the more the merrier:) even
> > our dogs sleep with us though they don't stay on the bed, just join us for a bit
> > then leave and sleep on the floor.
> > -susan
> > austin, tx
> > 'unity through diversity'
> >
> > Sonia Ulan wrote:
> >
> > > We have a 3 bedroom
> > > house in yet all 5 of us co-sleep in one room. If we ever have another
> > > baby Mom's and Dad's room will be VERY crowded!!! I
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:59:43 -0700
> From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>
> Subject: Re: 'shyness'
>
> Hello and goodbye!
>
> I just wanted to say a few words on shyness from the perspective of a
> British Columbia developmental psychologist Gordon Neufeld. He believes
> shyness is a positive naturally occurring quality in children which is
> instinctive and promotes attachment of children to their parents. He
> recognizes that there are large variances of shyness but he sees it as
> an important force for focusing children on the people who care about
> them. It is not a problem per se. Very shy children have high
> attachment needs which need to be met. I have stopped (mostly)
> "encouraging" my children to be "independent". You can't stop
> independence when they are ready for it which occurs much later than
> most people think. Late adolescence is the time for the natural
> emergence of true independence. Independence is forced on children
> entirely too early which results not in independence but "peer
> identified" children with displaced dependence on their peers who are
> ill equipped to meet their real needs.
>
> I was subscribed to this list many months ago but unsubscribed because
> my family needed my time more than I needed this list. I really like it
> but I can see that I will need to unsubcribe again. I just can't master
> the delete key in the way I need to. The topics are too interesting
> and I agree and disagree with people so intensely. I have a lot of
> experience and ideas to offer but sadly don't have the time.
>
> I would encourage everyone to email Oprah's website and let them know
> just how big and varied unschooling and homeschooling are. Oprah is
> just mesmerized by schools and teachers. She needs lots of
> encouragement to do the topic real justice. So let's try for an email a
> week to Oprah for... say three weeks..... psst! Pass it On!
>
> I am leaving this list forthwith.
>
> Anyone who would like to chat can email me at jhawthorne@...
>
> hjshaltz@... wrote:
>
> > Commenting on the thread of the 'shy' child. I personally don't like
> > the
> > term 'shy'. In my experience, a 'shy' person is generally an
> > introvert.
> > There's nothing wrong with being an introvert. But it can be
> > important for
> > introverts to learn the skills that allow comfortable social
> > interactions,
> > just as it can be important for extroverts to learn skills to allow
> > them to
> > be comfortable by themselves or in very small groups.
> >
> > I don't like the term 'shy' because there's a sense of there being
> > something
> > wrong with the child, when the only thing wrong is assuming all people
> > should
> > be equally comfortable with strangers and large groups. OTOH, if I
> > think of
> > 'skills' rather than 'something's wrong with the child', then I can
> > focus on
> > easy ways to learn those skills, rather than forcing my child to act
> > extroverted when in fact she's an introvert. My focus would be in
> > helping
> > her feel confident rather than making her fit someone else's
> > definition of
> > extroverted.
> >
> > Holly
> > hjshaltz@...
> > HJS Studio and Shaltz Farm Shetlands and Angora Rabbits
> > List Mom, [email protected] and [email protected]
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
>
> --
> best wishes
> Joel
>
> All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
> Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:14:46 -0700
> From: Joel Hawthorne <jhawthorne@...>
> Subject: Re: unschooling fallicies?
>
> This is what I posted as a comment to a lengthy discussion on
> intellectualcapital.com about schools, schooling and teachers:
>
> { This discussion (the one on intellectualcapital.com) is truly like
> discussing astrology or phrenology. A great raft of accepted notions
> which have ZERO validity are bandied about with much quoting of
> statistics.
>
> The EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! "Education" is about making money, enforcing
> values, stifling questioning, ensuring conformity, destroying the
> inherent love of learning, detaching children from their families,
> insuring that armies have willing solidiers, protecting the power of the
> powerful. To silently witness this discussion is like being ensnared in
> a nightmare/dream. Schooling is little better than wholesale
> incarceration of the young.
>
> Each day of freedom is bright with promise. Boredom when you are free is
> the matrix of creativity. When you are imprisoned boredom is the
> cauldron in which cruelty boils. Schools are rife with bullies because
> they are run by well-meaning bullies who are oblivious to the fact that
> their function is to bully. Just as in a prison, the powerful control
> the less powerful right down the line.
>
> I know that people may have good intentions but I just can't stand the
> hollowness of this discussion. I know that iconoclasm is only popular if
> it is not your icon being thwacked. }
>
> I post this here because arguing with a schooled, schooling teacher is
> maddening to say the least.
> susan wrote:
>
> > -unschoolers are lazy and don't discipline their children.
> >
> > -unschoolers are chaotic and are anit-rules just to be anti-rules
> > they have no deeper reasons. i.e. unschoolers are contrary and
> > non-conformist for it's own sake.
> >
> > here's a website that really annoyed me because it passes opinion off
> > as fact. i think it will provide you with lots of 'fallacies'. the
> > author happens to be on our local list and i had a very brief
> > interaction but quickly realized (and was advised) it was a waste of
> > time because she needed to defending 'teaching' by attacking
> > unschooling. imo this is a really silly thing to do. anyway here are
> > some excerpts and links to check out for yourself:
> >
> > 1) Unschooling in Theory ...
> > John Holt's philosophy of unschooling is based on a false premise: the
> > premise that ideas are innate. His radical position is that children
> > automatically know how and what to learn, that they're born with the
> > knowledge of how to get nonsense. The proper methods of developing
> > one's own intellect have to be learned just like any other knowledge,
> > and having a teacher to guide the process is of significant value.
> > (See Objective Approach.) A parent who insists that a child must lead
> > his own education places an undue burden upon his young shoulders.
> > Children do not yet have a broad enough context to see how knowledge
> > fits together; they dont mysteriously "know" what they can't possibly
> > know. http://www.hometaught.com/app_unschooling.htm
> >
> > imo: the burden, placed on children, of parents who lack faith in a
> > child's ability and desires is the true burden. and the fallacy is
> > that unschooling parent don't facilitate the 'fitting together of
> > knowledge'. which leads to the denial that children question the
> > world around them and that these questions led to the experience of
> > 'how knowledge fits together' and these experiences, if not discovery
> > naturally but the child, are provided and facilitated by the parents.
> > unschooling parents and their children choose a lifestyle of learning
> > and thereby don't make a distinction between life and teaching.
> >
> > 2) Unschooling is: Anti-schooling...
> > John Holts advice to unschooling parents from Teach Your Own (p. 229)
> > sums up his theory in practice:
> >
> > "I say, above all else, dont let your home become [a] miniature copy
> > of the school. No lesson plans! No quizzes! No tests! No report cards!
> > Even leaving your children alone would be better; at least they could
> > figure out some things on their
> > own. Live together, as well as you can; enjoy life together, as much
> > as you can."
> >
> > In other words, let the child be responsible for his own education.
> > You parents dont have to do anythingdont plan a curriculum, dont
> > try to evaluate your childs progress, dont try to teach him. Just
> > leave him alone to learn from life.
> > http://www.hometaught.com/john_holt.htm
> >
> >
> > imo: i don't know how you can 'live together' and then 'leave your
> > [kids} alone'. and the point that life-learners are people who have
> > developed the skills of self-motivation and curiosity is completely
> > lost in this 'interpretation'.
> >
> > overall this author exhibits a need, for whatever reason, to have
> > control over her children and their learning process, yet is not
> > secure enough in this position to just do it, but must support the
> > position by negating the possibility that there is a way where a child
> > can learn and not be controlled. imo we as parents need faith in
> > ourselves as well as our children and this is perhaps the toughest
> > hurdle presented by unschooling - obviously this author was unable to
> > make this 'leap of faith' and perhaps should follow a different
> > philosophy.
> >
> > -susan,
> > austin,tx
> > 'unity through diversity'
> >
> > unschoolr2@... wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all, I am working on an article on the common myths or
> >> misconceptions
> >> about unschooling and unschooling families. We have all heard the
> >> very
> >> sad.... If left to there own devices kids would just sit and watch
> >> TV or play
> >> video games all day. What are some others that you have heard?
> >> Thanks
> >> Teri
> >>
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]
> >
>
> --
> best wishes
> Joel
>
> All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
> Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:01:05 +0000
> From: susan <fxfireob@...>
> Subject: Re: 'shyness'
>
> Joel Hawthorne wrote:
>
> > Hello and goodbye!
> >
> > I just wanted to say a few words on shyness from the perspective of a
> > British Columbia developmental psychologist Gordon Neufeld. He
> > believes shyness is a positive naturally occurring quality in children
> > which is instinctive and promotes attachment of children to their
> > parents. He recognizes that there are large variances of shyness but
> > he sees it as an important force for focusing children on the people
> > who care about them. It is not a problem per se. Very shy children
> > have high attachment needs which need to be met. I have stopped
> > (mostly) "encouraging" my children to be "independent". You can't
> > stop independence when they are ready for it which occurs much later
> > than most people think. Late adolescence is the time for the natural
> > emergence of true independence. Independence is forced on children
> > entirely too early which results not in independence but "peer
> > identified" children with displaced dependence on their peers who are
> > ill equipped to meet their real needs.
>
> when i was growing up i would have glued myself to my mom if i could
> have and was more attached to her that any of my 4 siblings but moved
> away from home at 17 and have only been back for visits and a few months
> during my 20's. not so for my siblings (one is still living there and
> the other have lived there at least 3 yrs) i'm by far the most
> independent and rarely went out during my teen years - i just was
> interested in it. so this is to say i completely agree with this
> statement. the negative view of loners really annoys me i just don't
> enjoy being so stimulated all the time just once in awhile.
>
> > I was subscribed to this list many months ago but unsubscribed because
> > my family needed my time more than I needed this list. I really like
> > it but I can see that I will need to unsubcribe again. I just can't
> > master the delete key in the way I need to. The topics are too
> > interesting and I agree and disagree with people so intensely. I have
> > a lot of experience and ideas to offer but sadly don't have the time.
>
> i can completely agree with you and i entertain the same thoughts. it's
> too bad you are unable to find the time to share but it's
> understandable.
>
> > I would encourage everyone to email Oprah's website and let them know
> > just how big and varied unschooling and homeschooling are. Oprah is
> > just mesmerized by schools and teachers. She needs lots of
> > encouragement to do the topic real justice. So let's try for an email
> > a week to Oprah for... say three weeks..... psst! Pass it On!
> >
> > I am leaving this list forthwith.
> >
> > Anyone who would like to chat can email me at jhawthorne@...
>
> from what i've read she's has no intention of doing a hs show but why
> not try.
>
> -susan
> tx
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:22:34 -0400
> From: "K WORTHEN" <kworthen@...>
> Subject: Re: BABIES!!!
>
> That's cool!
> Amy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sonia Ulan" <sulan@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] BABIES!!!
>
> >
> >
> > To all the "Family-Bed" co-sleepers out there;
> >
> > I remember being really impressed when I once read that Paul and Lynda
> > McCartney restricted themselves to two bedrooms in their home and they
> > slept with their four children. Despite having a rather grand English
> > estate and "all the money in the world", they still had their
> > priorities: BABIES!!! And close family intimacy.
> >
> > Now that's a testimonial.
> >
> > Sonia
> >
> > susan wrote:
> > >
> > > it sounds like you need to start knocking down some walls and instead of
> carpet
> > > get wall-to-wall mattress:) i love sharing a bed. the more the
> merrier:) even
> > > our dogs sleep with us though they don't stay on the bed, just join us
> for a bit
> > > then leave and sleep on the floor.
> > > -susan
> > > austin, tx
> > > 'unity through diversity'
> > >
> > > Sonia Ulan wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have a 3 bedroom
> > > > house in yet all 5 of us co-sleep in one room. If we ever have
> another
> > > > baby Mom's and Dad's room will be VERY crowded!!! I
> > >
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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> >
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:42:11 -0400
> From: Anita Bower <homequaker@...>
> Subject: Re: from unschool grad -shyness
>
> Karen:
>
> I should add that, while my son got along well with some of the kids, there
> was one that was a challenge for him. It took several years for the two
> boys to work through their differences. Part of it was my son learning to
> get along with others. Fortunately, I could talk freely about this with
> the other boy's mom.
>
> Anita
>
> At 08:40 AM 4/17/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >Anita,
>
> > I'm sure that was a delight for you to find your son happily playing
> >with new friends! I think my little guy will come through this as he grows
> >older, too. Thanks. Karen
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online
> >reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day!
> >Click here for more details.
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/3011/7/_/448294/_/955975328/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> Oxford School District
> "There are many will claim to tell you what is due from you, but only one
> who can shear through the many, and reach the truth. And that is you, by
> what light falls for you to show the way." Brother Cadfael in "The Devil's
> Novice" by Ellis Peters.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:46:55 EDT
> From: hjshaltz@...
> Subject: diploma for Army enlistment
>
> Amy wrote:
>
> <>
>
> The Army looked into Clonlara and decided that it wasn't 'real school'
> because he never went to classes. All our arguments, including faxes from
> Clonlara showing their accredidation, went for naught. Eventually Chris was
> 'allowed' to enlist during one of the windows in which the Army 'temporarily'
> lowers its standards in order to meet quotas :) So he could enlist as a
> non-highschool grad.
>
> I was told that the Air Force is not so stinky; I don't know about the
> Navy/Marines. But I suspect all the services have those windows, because
> they all have quotas to meet. And if your child can do well on the testing
> the services give, they will find a way to enlist the child.
>
> Holly
> hjshaltz@...
> HJS Studio and Shaltz Farm Shetlands and Angora Rabbits
> List Mom, [email protected] and [email protected]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
aworthen
I had the pleasure of meeting David last night and
listening to him speak. His talk on hsing was wonderful. Meeting him and Ellen
and their girls was like meeting up with old friends. They are a wonderful
family. (And to top it all off, I got to hear his daughter play the piano).
:-)
Amy
Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
The World Is Our Classroom
Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
The World Is Our Classroom
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 11:51:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Not far enough North!!! Do you think you'll ever make it up to NW
Florida..Pensacola specifically?<<<
If you ASK!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Not far enough North!!! Do you think you'll ever make it up to NW
Florida..Pensacola specifically?<<<
If you ASK!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]