Julie Bogart

Has anyone dealt with that here? I am interested in hearing what
the signs might be, what the difference is between needing
some therapeutic support or input versus going to the MD for a
referral to a psychiatrist (who will no doubt want to prescribe
drugs).

A family member is showing some signs, probably dealing with
left over pain from bullying for a number of years in early
childhood. But the residual in his life now is a lack of confidence
in friendship building. There aren't obvious signs (like
sleeplessness or anger or moodiness) but there is some
lethargy and self-reporting on live journal etc. that leads us to
believe that there may be depression or self-esteem stuff that
needs to be addressed.

Any input would be welcome.

Julie B

Heidi

Hi Julie

I've been IN depression as a teenager. Starting when I was a
teenager, shall we say. But I tend to be an introvert with
melancholic tendencies, anyway. Bit of a pessimist, I am. Low-grade
depression is something I will deal with all my life, and just lately
have learned how to do so.

Your teen sounds like he/she has had a childhood similar to mine, in
that there was some bullying and much non-fitting-in all the way
through school.

Is the person doing drugs? Then there might need to be intervention.
An active sex-life means at least a dr. visit to get contraceptive
and check for std's. (My depression manifested itself in big time
promiscuity starting as a young teenager) If this kid is thinking
about suicide...time for intervention. NOW.

Otherwise, I don't know. My folks got the family into counselling
when I started *gasp* smoking. (er, three years after I becamse
sexually active, btw) Point being, I knew the counselling was lame. I
couldn't have told you at the time what I wanted, but I knew what I
didn't want: to sit in a chair in a counsellor's office with parents
who thought the family problem was ME. In retrospect, possibly
spending lots and lots of time with people who genuinely were
interested in me, interested in doing cool things with me, maybe even
talking about some of the stuff in my life...

IOW, if my folks had known I was screwing around and smoking pot,
there might have been more rapid and thorough response from them.
AND!!! even not knowing the depths of my trouble, if they could have
let me know that they really and truly liked being with me and
accepted me where I was (F student, amazing reader, totally bizaarre
thinking processes, loner without many friends) and hung with me
without judging...maybe some of that trouble would have gone away
without a lot of intervention.

Don't know if that helps at all. I'm thinking, with my attitude what
it was back then, I might have turned away from any genuine parental
intiatives to win my heart.


blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:

> Has anyone dealt with that here? I am interested in hearing what
> the signs might be, what the difference is between needing
> some therapeutic support or input versus going to the MD for a
> referral to a psychiatrist (who will no doubt want to prescribe
> drugs).

Betsy

**A family member is showing some signs, probably dealing with
left over pain from bullying for a number of years in early
childhood. But the residual in his life now is a lack of confidence
in friendship building. There aren't obvious signs (like
sleeplessness or anger or moodiness) but there is some
lethargy and self-reporting on live journal etc. that leads us to
believe that there may be depression or self-esteem stuff that
needs to be addressed.**

I hope someone else offers more specific information.

Just generally, there is quite a bit of mental health information
available on the internet. I'm sure that I've seen tests or quizzes one
can take to assess depression. You could add "warning signs" into your
search string.

In addition to "depression", you may also want to look at information
about "post traumatic stress" because it sounds like your son's
experiences were fairly traumatic.

Best wishes,
Betsy

PS With winter coming, finding ways to have plenty of sunshine and
activity is important for many people. Cloudy days and darkness
certainly make me feel "down".

Norma

--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
> Has anyone dealt with that here? I am interested in hearing what
> the signs might be, what the difference is between needing
> some therapeutic support or input versus going to the MD for a
> referral to a psychiatrist (who will no doubt want to prescribe
> drugs).

Julie:

Here is a site on teen depression:
http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/mental_health/depression.html

This is to be taken seriously. Many teens are depressed and even
suicidal. The teen years are often an all-or-nothing time, when it
feels like we have to do it, or else. Seeing a therapist or social
worker, or finding a good group for peer counseling might help. And
good nutrition plus adequate sleep can help, too.

When someone I knew was very depressed, suicidally depressed, I
helped the person find a therapist and get in to see someone right
away. After several months of therapy the therapist concluded that
this person probably needed to go on an anti-depressant drug. Since
he and his wife did not believe in this type of thing I suggested
that he try homeopathic treatment for the depression for the six
weeks that his therapist would be gone on vacation, before she
returned to prescribe medication for him.

He did and when he went back to see his therapist, presumably to get
a prescription for an anti-depressant, she saw such great improvement
that she not only did not prescribe any drugs, but said she did not
need to see him any longer unless something else came up.

He has remained under homeopathic care, taking a constitutional
remedy when needed, about every 4-6 months, and has never returned to
his suicidally depressed state, leads a full and very demanding life,
for 4 years now. He has even taken on some firsts, breaking many of
his own self-limitations in recent years. Pretty good for someone
who was diagnosed with severe depression, threatening suicide.

I think it is important to do both, though; therapy and treatment. A
good therapist can often catch things if they are turning bad, and do
something before that suicide threat becomes a nightmare. And good
homeopathic treatment can progress ever so much quicker with the help
of a good therapist.

Norma

Deborah Lewis

Hi Julie,

You'll probably get better ideas but I wonder if you could go out with
him at night, just walk around your town or the country where you live.
Getting out at night has some kind of magical effect on people and it's
easy to talk about anything while your out just wandering.
If you can't go at night maybe you could find a way to go hiking with him
during the day, someplace really beautiful and quiet.

There's something about that makes a person thoughtful and he might share
something with you that will give you an idea why he's feeling the way he
is.

Is it hormonal?
Is it maybe that summer's ending and the season's changing and he just
doesn't like change that much. That happens to Dylan sometimes.

I think it's normal to be melancholy sometimes. Young people especially
have dramatic mood swings and dramatic ways of reporting on big emotions,
but I don't think that necessarily means a dangerous condition.

I hope something brilliant occurs to you and he begins to feel better.

Deb L

Mary

I have dealt with this here in our home. It actually showed itself in a very
physical way which caused me to seek out professional help. It started out
with in home counselling twice a week at first, tapering off to once a week,
once every 2 weeks and then finally once a month before ending. There was
also medication involved for a period of one year and now no longer needed.
There was a Dr. follow up with the meds and counselling every 8 weeks.

Aside from the physical problem we dealt with, there was intense moodiness.
Very high highs and without warning, incredible lows. Change in eating
habits, with actually eating more than usual. Problems sleeping at night but
not excessive sleeping or sleeping during the day. Not lethargic like some
people think. Concentration went down and school grades fell. There was also
a change in sexual behavior. Changes in self esteem were evident too.

Feel free to email me privately if I can offer any other info.

Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Holly Shaltz

Julie, what you describe is very similar to what my oldest went through,
although it started younger for him--he was 9 or 10 when it became such
that I felt driven to find a counselor (not an easy thing for me to do!)

In our case, the cause was an alcoholic first grade teacher who drank
during class hours. I was aware of the personality change in my son,
but between his being the first child in school and all my 'friends'
telling me personality changes were normal, I didn't listen to my gut
feeling. Eventually he became very depressed, almost suicidal.

I was lucky at the right time (or maybe it was meant <g>) in that an
acquaintance with a boy about the same age recommended a counselling
business not too far from where we lived, and we got hooked up with a
counselor who was fantastic. I later went to see him myself, primarily
about unresolved grief issues.

Chris was able to see the counselor two times a week for a year before
the good ole Army moved us to Germany. Longer would have been better,
he is still working through issues--but then I guess we all do. Joining
the Army himself did at least teach him he had a pretty cushy upbringing
compared to a lot of people!

Go with your gut feeling, Julie! If you feel the teen is depressed,
chances are pretty good he is. A supportive, accepting counselor--or,
failing that, another adult whom he trusts (and you trust) for him to
talk to can make a world of difference. I know my son didn't talk much
to me because his personality was such that he didn't want to be a
bother. Going through all sorts of issues myself, I must have projected
being stressed and therefore unavailable to him <sigh>

On the plus side, it was part of what led us to homeschooling!

Holly

Julie Bogart

Thanks everyone for your terrific responses. I had a conversation
with my teen and it went really well. He's actually asking for
therapy so I'm grateful for that. The cues are less obvious in our
case because he's such a happy-go-lucky personality. But the
clue for me was that when faced with trouble in friendships, he
withdraws totally and blames self.

Thanks for all your suggestions, especially to go with my gut.

And thanks for the private stories shared via email too. You are
wonderful moms.

Julie B

--- In [email protected], Holly Shaltz
<holly@s...> wrote:
> Julie, what you describe is very similar to what my oldest went
through,
> although it started younger for him--he was 9 or 10 when it
became such
> that I felt driven to find a counselor (not an easy thing for me to
do!)
>
> In our case, the cause was an alcoholic first grade teacher
who drank
> during class hours. I was aware of the personality change in
my son,
> but between his being the first child in school and all my
'friends'
> telling me personality changes were normal, I didn't listen to
my gut
> feeling. Eventually he became very depressed, almost
suicidal.
>
> I was lucky at the right time (or maybe it was meant <g>) in that
an
> acquaintance with a boy about the same age recommended a
counselling
> business not too far from where we lived, and we got hooked
up with a
> counselor who was fantastic. I later went to see him myself,
primarily
> about unresolved grief issues.
>
> Chris was able to see the counselor two times a week for a
year before
> the good ole Army moved us to Germany. Longer would have
been better,
> he is still working through issues--but then I guess we all do.
Joining
> the Army himself did at least teach him he had a pretty cushy
upbringing
> compared to a lot of people!
>
> Go with your gut feeling, Julie! If you feel the teen is
depressed,
> chances are pretty good he is. A supportive, accepting
counselor--or,
> failing that, another adult whom he trusts (and you trust) for
him to
> talk to can make a world of difference. I know my son didn't talk
much
> to me because his personality was such that he didn't want to
be a
> bother. Going through all sorts of issues myself, I must have
projected
> being stressed and therefore unavailable to him <sigh>
>
> On the plus side, it was part of what led us to homeschooling!
>
> Holly

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/30/03 6:38:49 AM, holly@... writes:

<< In our case, the cause was an alcoholic first grade teacher who drank
during class hours. I was aware of the personality change in my son,
but between his being the first child in school and all my 'friends'
telling me personality changes were normal, I didn't listen to my gut
feeling. Eventually he became very depressed, almost suicidal. >>

Our 7th grade English teacher drank. She would go to a tall metal storage
cabinet and get way inside the doors where nobody could see her and lean in, her
head all the way into the shelf. We couldn't figure what else it could be,
and those of us with parents who drank recognized the behaviors.

We never told on her, though. We just messed with her, like a cat will mess
with a mouse. She insulted us, we laughed it off, and subtly messed with her
head. The work was really easy, she was quite inattentive, and so it was an
easy hour and we left it at that.

Sandra