Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] from unschool grad
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2000 10:15:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hafidha@... writes:
Hafidha,
<< Unschooling is only an advantage, I believe, when kids are MORE
involved in life than they would be if they were in school. >>
Yes, I truly believe this. And we as unschooling parents have to make sure
that our children have access to the wider world. It is all well and good to
say that children should be responsible for their own education, but parents
Have to help them do that. We are the ones that takes them to lessons and
meetings, we are the ones who make sure that they get to whatever volunteer
opportunity they choose. Their education, has to come from us. Sheese, I am
tired just thinking of it<g>
By the way, Hafidha, I am from the Portland area too:)
Teri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teri Brown
Suite101 Unschooling Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/unschooling
Assistant Editor For Voices,
The Journal of the National Home Education Network www.nhen.org
Columnist For The Link: A Homeschooling Newspaper
Homeschooling - Christian Unschooling - Natural learning
http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hafidha@... writes:
Hafidha,
<< Unschooling is only an advantage, I believe, when kids are MORE
involved in life than they would be if they were in school. >>
Yes, I truly believe this. And we as unschooling parents have to make sure
that our children have access to the wider world. It is all well and good to
say that children should be responsible for their own education, but parents
Have to help them do that. We are the ones that takes them to lessons and
meetings, we are the ones who make sure that they get to whatever volunteer
opportunity they choose. Their education, has to come from us. Sheese, I am
tired just thinking of it<g>
By the way, Hafidha, I am from the Portland area too:)
Teri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teri Brown
Suite101 Unschooling Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/unschooling
Assistant Editor For Voices,
The Journal of the National Home Education Network www.nhen.org
Columnist For The Link: A Homeschooling Newspaper
Homeschooling - Christian Unschooling - Natural learning
http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[email protected]
Hafidha said:
<<
the piano when I was younger. So, at the age of 40, I started taking piano
lessons! I love it! I usually practice about an hour a day and can hardly
walk by the piano without being drawn to it. My unschooled daughter, on the
other hand, has no interest at all AT THIS TIME. My point is, learning isn't
something to be accomplished while you are a child and then you go live your
"real" life. We are all "unschooling" from the day we are born until the day
we die. First and foremost, I want my daughter to enjoy learning and to find
the things in life that bring her joy and passion. Then this will be a life
worth living. Everything else she needs will come from this. And, it's never
too late! Jackie
<<
> I only feel like I have a lot of catching up to do as an adultI was not home schooled and I have often wished I had learned to play
> because there are a lot of things I have an interest in that I wish I
> already knew (e.g. Latin & piano) - and that I could have learned back
> then if I'd known how to be diligent.
>>
the piano when I was younger. So, at the age of 40, I started taking piano
lessons! I love it! I usually practice about an hour a day and can hardly
walk by the piano without being drawn to it. My unschooled daughter, on the
other hand, has no interest at all AT THIS TIME. My point is, learning isn't
something to be accomplished while you are a child and then you go live your
"real" life. We are all "unschooling" from the day we are born until the day
we die. First and foremost, I want my daughter to enjoy learning and to find
the things in life that bring her joy and passion. Then this will be a life
worth living. Everything else she needs will come from this. And, it's never
too late! Jackie
Hafidha
Hi,
We did things sometimes. I had a lot of pen pals and was an avid reader. I belonged
to a small Girl Scout troop; we met twice a month for about ... a year, I think.
The meetings were held about 45 minutes away from my house (in Brooklyn; I was
on Long Island). I remember that I looked forward to these meetings. We weren't
as active about getting badges as other troops might be; but it was just nice
to see the other girls. I think I earned one badge. =)
I had interests, but I was also very shy and didn't know how to take initiative.
My mom would often get mad at me because I didn't get out or do anything. I
wanted to, but it was hard for me to be in new situations. We'd moved to a new
town several months before we started unschooling and I literally had no friends
there. When I was about 13, my mom met a few other unschooling parents and we
would get together with them and their kids once a month or so at a local park.
One family we were friends with, and we'd visit them at their house from time
to time.
I had a weekend paper route. We'd go to the library a lot because we all liked
reading. I enjoyed writing and would make up little stories, poems and songs.
Most days I would just read from the time I woke up till I fell asleep that
night. I also slept a LOT - I would actually look forward to sleeping. I think
that might have been (in part) a teenage thing because my younger brother went
through the same phase some years later. I spent a lot of time with my brothers.
When I get home I'll take a look at my journals to see what other things I did.
-Hafidha
We did things sometimes. I had a lot of pen pals and was an avid reader. I belonged
to a small Girl Scout troop; we met twice a month for about ... a year, I think.
The meetings were held about 45 minutes away from my house (in Brooklyn; I was
on Long Island). I remember that I looked forward to these meetings. We weren't
as active about getting badges as other troops might be; but it was just nice
to see the other girls. I think I earned one badge. =)
I had interests, but I was also very shy and didn't know how to take initiative.
My mom would often get mad at me because I didn't get out or do anything. I
wanted to, but it was hard for me to be in new situations. We'd moved to a new
town several months before we started unschooling and I literally had no friends
there. When I was about 13, my mom met a few other unschooling parents and we
would get together with them and their kids once a month or so at a local park.
One family we were friends with, and we'd visit them at their house from time
to time.
I had a weekend paper route. We'd go to the library a lot because we all liked
reading. I enjoyed writing and would make up little stories, poems and songs.
Most days I would just read from the time I woke up till I fell asleep that
night. I also slept a LOT - I would actually look forward to sleeping. I think
that might have been (in part) a teenage thing because my younger brother went
through the same phase some years later. I spent a lot of time with my brothers.
When I get home I'll take a look at my journals to see what other things I did.
-Hafidha
>
>
>Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us, Hafidha.
>
>I was just curious to know WHAT you did during those unschooling years?
>Your parents did not take you anywhere? You had no interests, hobbies,
>or outside activities?
>
>If you could give a little more detail I'd find it very helpful.
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Sonia
>
Hafidha
Carol wrote:
avoid outside activities. My mother left it up to me to make things happen for
myself; she felt that if I couldn't figure out how to then I must not have been
truly interested.
worth doing?
By lazy I mean the inclination to be inert. For example, I know a lot of kids
who only want to watch television all day. As a parent, I wouldn't allow this
even if it was what they wanted. Some folks need no encouragement to learn or
try new things; others could use some hand-holding in the beginning.
-hafidha
>So, as a matter of interest, were you interested in these >things back then?Yes, but I dreaded being in new situations with strangers so I would generally
avoid outside activities. My mother left it up to me to make things happen for
myself; she felt that if I couldn't figure out how to then I must not have been
truly interested.
>What do you mean by lazy? If things are important enough to >us, we will dothem. If they aren't important enough to do >them willingly, then are they really
worth doing?
By lazy I mean the inclination to be inert. For example, I know a lot of kids
who only want to watch television all day. As a parent, I wouldn't allow this
even if it was what they wanted. Some folks need no encouragement to learn or
try new things; others could use some hand-holding in the beginning.
-hafidha
K WORTHEN
Dear Hafidha,
Thanks so much for your enlightening post. You toughed on some of my
greatest fears and I appreciate your honesty. There are many days when I
give in to my feelings of laziness and I now know that I was right to worry
that this would affect my kids. (In fact, Ispent all afternoon preparing a
unit study of the Revolutionary war for this week). I'm sorry to hear that
your situation was not ideal, but thanks to you, I hope my kids won't feel
the same way. Things are going to be different around here from now on.
Amy
Thanks so much for your enlightening post. You toughed on some of my
greatest fears and I appreciate your honesty. There are many days when I
give in to my feelings of laziness and I now know that I was right to worry
that this would affect my kids. (In fact, Ispent all afternoon preparing a
unit study of the Revolutionary war for this week). I'm sorry to hear that
your situation was not ideal, but thanks to you, I hope my kids won't feel
the same way. Things are going to be different around here from now on.
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hafidha" <hafidha@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 1:17 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] from unschool grad
> Hello Jackie, Sonia, and Linda (and whoever else asked about being a
> former unschooler)
>
> Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about this. I wanted to
> respond, but didn't quite know where to begin. I'll try now, but
> please excuse me if this sounds scattered; it's late and it's been a
> long day. This is kind of long (I'm HORRIBLY longwinded).
>
> I didn't have the ideal home/unschooling experience. I was homeschool
> from the ages of 12 to 16. At times it was extremely dull and weeks
> would go by when I don't think I did anything at all. My interaction
> with other people (of any age) was pretty limited. I think sometimes
> my parents didn't know what to do with me and my brothers. They are
> not very structured or disciplined themselves, so they were not so
> good about teaching us how to be. There was not much emphasis on
> developing serious hobbies or interests or even our talents. Still,
> they did the best they knew how, and I have no hard feelings towards
> them. I only feel like I have a lot of catching up to do as an adult
> because there are a lot of things I have an interest in that I wish I
> already knew (e.g. Latin & piano) - and that I could have learned back
> then if I'd known how to be diligent. Since the age of 16, I've been
> either in college or working. I am trying to unschool myself now as an
> adult, and the hardest thing for me is just knowing how to *finish*
> things. It's not easy to learn these skills when you're 20-something
> ... and I'm something of a dilettante by nature; *my* unschooling
> experience probably reinforced that.
>
> Despite all that, I support other people's efforts to home/unschool, I
> believe in the philosophy and if I had children I would more than
> likely unschool them. I enjoy learning and would love to be able to
> spend time with my kid(s) everyday exploring the world and learning
> with them. My main suggestion to parents (and I don't intend this to
> be AT ALL accusatory) is to really fight the urge to be lazy. Make
> sure your kids are really learning and engaged in life - taking
> lessons, volunteering, getting outdoors, and developing skills;
> whether they're playing an instrument, re-enacting history, sewing,
> gardening, working on computers, fixing cars, or flying planes, they
> should be experiencing things and trying things out. We don't always
> have these opportunities as adults. (We should, but we don't.)
>
> The book Grace Llewellyn edited (I believe it's called "Real Lives")
> that featured essays by a dozen or so unschooling teens was excellent.
> Unschooling is only an advantage, I believe, when kids are MORE
> involved in life than they would be if they were in school. And when
> they are more in touch with themselves. I was VERY in touch with
> myself as an unschooling teen, but I wasn't immersed in life; that was
> a very serious inbalance, and seven years later it's something I'm
> still trying to right.
>
> I think my parents keeping me out of school prevented me from being
> overly concerned with what other people think about me because when I
> first left school I was very, very easily hurt by others. I had low
> self esteem. I got along with everyone, but was also easily
> intimidated and fearful of being disliked. To some degree it's part of
> my personality to want to get along and avoid confrontation, but I
> think my parents saw that school wasn't helping me in this regard; I
> do believe I'm a much stronger-willed and independent person now than
> I would have been had I stayed in junior high.
>
> Perhaps the best thing about my parents' decision to unschool is that
> it exposed me to various subcultures ... different way of looking at
> things. I was alerted to alternative movements and ideas at a young
> age, and learned to view everything (especially mainstream lifestyle)
> with some skepticism, to not believe everything I was told, and to
> question convention. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that
> had I gone the normal schooling route I'd be in the rat race with so
> many other people, just trying to keep up with the Joneses, trying to
> appear impressive and accomplished, and not asking myself "Why am I
> doing this? Who am I doing this for?" There's a large part of me that
> can be really uptight and conservative, so unschooling was a fantastic
> counterbalance to that.
>
> If I could go back 10 years and do things differently, I would have a
> more active and fulfilling unschooling experience; I wouldn't choose
> school. So that's that. I hope this answered your questions. Oh, and
> I'm a pretty 'normal' adult. I work for a utility company, make decent
> money, keep my own apartment, and have some friends. Still, I really
> don't like this office work and plan to next year move to Spain to
> study Spanish for a year, and then who knows? There are so many things
> I want to do, that if one thing doesn't work out it just points me in
> another direction I was interested in anyway.
>
> Gnight,
> Hafidha
>
> Portland, OR
>
> **********************************************************************
> *********************
> "The trouble with modern education is you never know how ignorant
> people are. With anyone over fifty you can be fairly confident what's
> been taught and what's been left out. But these young people have such
> an intelligent, knowledgeable surface, and then the crust suddenly
> breaks and you look down into depths of confusion you didn't know
> existed."
> ~from Brideshead Revisited, Evelyn Waugh
>
>
>
>
>
>
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K WORTHEN
Shannon,
Thanks for the input. You certainly made some good points and I know you're
right. If we try to change everything in 1 day because of something someone
else says, it will prbably only last a week. But, you're also right that we
have been looking to make a change for a while. I need to get myself more
motivated and Hafidha's post just made me realize that not doing so could be
detramental to my kid's education.
Amy
Thanks for the input. You certainly made some good points and I know you're
right. If we try to change everything in 1 day because of something someone
else says, it will prbably only last a week. But, you're also right that we
have been looking to make a change for a while. I need to get myself more
motivated and Hafidha's post just made me realize that not doing so could be
detramental to my kid's education.
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon CC" <shannoncc@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] from unschool grad
> > Things are going to be different around here from now on.
> > Amy
>
> I'm not picking on Amy :-) but I just wanted to comment. I'm often
> dismayed at people who change their whole way of parenting (hs-ing, etc)
> because of an off hand remark or one person's story that they've heard
> on-line. I really appreciated Hafidha's story (tho, sadly, I saw some of
> my childhood in what she described, and I was sent to school), but I
> would urge everyone to not go against their instincts because of one
> story, which, by the way, was over-all a positive one! Children are
> different and so are parents. I don't think unschooling or parenting the
> way someone else says to will work. You have to raise your kids the way
> that works for you and your family. We can learn by other's successes
> and mistakes, and the example of others certainly gives us something to
> think about (which is one reason we're all on this list) but I don't
> think we should let ourselves have knee-jerk reactions to other people's
> experiences. Basically, we're all going to make mistakes. Whether you
> send your kids to school, or homeschool, or unschool, there are always
> going to be things you could have done better, and things you could have
> done worse. I think we should learn as much as we can from the
> experiences of others, take a good, hard look at our own families, and
> then do what our instincts tell us to do.
>
> And Amy, I'm really not singling you out. I did notice you said you've
> been worried about how it's going for your family so it's not just
> Hafidha's story that is prompting you to make a change. But I have met
> too many people online who read one story from one person and then panic
> and run out and change everything. I just thought I'd comment on that.
>
> Shannon CC
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 04/15/2000 10:15:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hafidha@... writes:
<< I didn't have the ideal home/unschooling experience. I was homeschool
from the ages of 12 to 16. At times it was extremely dull and weeks
would go by when I don't think I did anything at all. My interaction
with other people (of any age) was pretty limited. I think sometimes
my parents didn't know what to do with me and my brothers. They are
not very structured or disciplined themselves, so they were not so
good about teaching us how to be. There was not much emphasis on
developing serious hobbies or interests or even our talents. Still,
they did the best they knew how, and I have no hard feelings towards
them. I only feel like I have a lot of catching up to do as an adult
because there are a lot of things I have an interest in that I wish I
already knew (e.g. Latin & piano) - and that I could have learned back
then if I'd known how to be diligent. Since the age of 16, I've been
either in college or working. I am trying to unschool myself now as an
adult, and the hardest thing for me is just knowing how to *finish*
things. It's not easy to learn these skills when you're 20-something
... and I'm something of a dilettante by nature; *my* unschooling
experience probably reinforced that.
don't feel too bad, I was in school and was terrbily bored from 12-18, when
I got involved in smoking/drinking , the opposite sex and later
recreational drugs (and still maintained an honor roll and good girl
status). At 15 I was working and still doing very well in school where
I was biding my time. I hung out with my business teacher and took
all her advanced classes in addition to be an aid. I did a few
interesting things, petitioning the coach to let sophomore girls in
his weights class (me and my gf won and paved the way for other
girls), was able to take archery (fun would like to do more of that
again when the kids grow older) and my passion, scuba diving was
offered one quarter at my school. So these are the things I took
away from my school experienc. Not a bad one? My parents
never encouraged me to really do anything specific (I didn't know what
I wanted to do anyhow) although they always told me that I could do/be
whatever I wanted,
and quite frankly that has always stuck with me more than anything, the
fact that my parents had the confidence in me and helped to instill in
myself that I can do whatever I set out to do. I am not sure if I believe
that we can be taught or learn how to be diligent. Certain things are
inherent in our personalities. I for instance, am a procrastinator, would
rather read (books or email) than do just about anything yet I run a
successful construction business with my husband (I do take care of things
when they need to be done within deadlines--but nothing I learned in
school prepared me for running a business--the skills I learned were typing,
shorthand--a dead art <g>, and beginning computer which is nothing like
what I later on taught myself at my first professional job or what I do
today in business, in fact I remember my gf and I mostly telling jokes and
getting out of that class early LOL--if my work was done my teach would
let me go). My children are
learning all kinds of cool stuff everyday mostly on their own, in addition
I am running a house and being a mother. After immersing myself for
the last seven years in the education and practical application of
childbirth, nutrition, parenting and child development,
homeschooling/un I am just now seeing that I may have other interests. Not
burning LOL but interesting just the same such as I look forward to some of
our historical field trips as much as the children do. (I like history, but
remember zero--yup not one date other than 1776 from school.) So this
is an activity/interest that I have whether or not my children are interested
(they are though) that I am hoping to learn more about. Geography, we
like to travel as well as natural science/botany. Well, I could
go on all morning, but will cut myself short here! Again, I enjoy hearing
your experiences : )
Kathy
hafidha@... writes:
<< I didn't have the ideal home/unschooling experience. I was homeschool
from the ages of 12 to 16. At times it was extremely dull and weeks
would go by when I don't think I did anything at all. My interaction
with other people (of any age) was pretty limited. I think sometimes
my parents didn't know what to do with me and my brothers. They are
not very structured or disciplined themselves, so they were not so
good about teaching us how to be. There was not much emphasis on
developing serious hobbies or interests or even our talents. Still,
they did the best they knew how, and I have no hard feelings towards
them. I only feel like I have a lot of catching up to do as an adult
because there are a lot of things I have an interest in that I wish I
already knew (e.g. Latin & piano) - and that I could have learned back
then if I'd known how to be diligent. Since the age of 16, I've been
either in college or working. I am trying to unschool myself now as an
adult, and the hardest thing for me is just knowing how to *finish*
things. It's not easy to learn these skills when you're 20-something
... and I'm something of a dilettante by nature; *my* unschooling
experience probably reinforced that.
>>Thank you so much for sharing your history! I just wanted to tell you,
don't feel too bad, I was in school and was terrbily bored from 12-18, when
I got involved in smoking/drinking , the opposite sex and later
recreational drugs (and still maintained an honor roll and good girl
status). At 15 I was working and still doing very well in school where
I was biding my time. I hung out with my business teacher and took
all her advanced classes in addition to be an aid. I did a few
interesting things, petitioning the coach to let sophomore girls in
his weights class (me and my gf won and paved the way for other
girls), was able to take archery (fun would like to do more of that
again when the kids grow older) and my passion, scuba diving was
offered one quarter at my school. So these are the things I took
away from my school experienc. Not a bad one? My parents
never encouraged me to really do anything specific (I didn't know what
I wanted to do anyhow) although they always told me that I could do/be
whatever I wanted,
and quite frankly that has always stuck with me more than anything, the
fact that my parents had the confidence in me and helped to instill in
myself that I can do whatever I set out to do. I am not sure if I believe
that we can be taught or learn how to be diligent. Certain things are
inherent in our personalities. I for instance, am a procrastinator, would
rather read (books or email) than do just about anything yet I run a
successful construction business with my husband (I do take care of things
when they need to be done within deadlines--but nothing I learned in
school prepared me for running a business--the skills I learned were typing,
shorthand--a dead art <g>, and beginning computer which is nothing like
what I later on taught myself at my first professional job or what I do
today in business, in fact I remember my gf and I mostly telling jokes and
getting out of that class early LOL--if my work was done my teach would
let me go). My children are
learning all kinds of cool stuff everyday mostly on their own, in addition
I am running a house and being a mother. After immersing myself for
the last seven years in the education and practical application of
childbirth, nutrition, parenting and child development,
homeschooling/un I am just now seeing that I may have other interests. Not
burning LOL but interesting just the same such as I look forward to some of
our historical field trips as much as the children do. (I like history, but
remember zero--yup not one date other than 1776 from school.) So this
is an activity/interest that I have whether or not my children are interested
(they are though) that I am hoping to learn more about. Geography, we
like to travel as well as natural science/botany. Well, I could
go on all morning, but will cut myself short here! Again, I enjoy hearing
your experiences : )
Kathy