Bigger than Konos; not just Konos (was Re: Konos)
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/25/03 8:04:20 AM, ecologymom@... writes:
<< I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the
concentration camps were a sham.
<<I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman
just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system.
She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery,
too?" >>
I think it's important for unschoolers to understand the extent to which
hundreds of thousands of structured homeschoolers go to indoctrinate their
children in a worldview which is not based on objective information.
As important as it is to know about the holocaust at some point, it's
important for more liberal homeschoolers to REALLY take a look at the face of the
conservative homeschoolers' teachings.
If we don't know the kinds of things that are going on, or if we see them as
a very small part of homeschooling (they are a very LARGE part and there will
be millions of them if there aren't already), we will make false statements
and embarrass ourselves and thereby be plainly wrong.
If someone says "Homeschoolers try to keep their children away from (choose
one from the following list)
...other people
...the world
... people who are different than they are
...evolution
...global village ideas
...children's rights"
Then the only true and right answers will need to be "Some do..." or "Our
family doesn't."
The answers I've heard newer, liberal homeschoolers give are "WHAT!? That's
ridiculous," and "No they don't. Homeschoolers are out in the world..."
Those statements are untrue.
So while I'm not dedicating my life to exposing or stopping them, it's worth
reminding people once in a while that yes there ARE people homeschooling
because they don't believe in the holocaust, that slavery was bad, or that the
Grand Canyon is old, and they want to tell their children a pack of
historic-revisionist, scientific-propaganda ink's-not-yet-dry lies. They don't allow their
children to think for themselves or to read all kinds of things to make their
own decisions. They don't allow their children to socialize outside their own
narrow belief system. They don't allow their children to learn naturally
from the worl around them nor even sometimes to BE in the world.
Anyone who doesn't know that or doesn't want to know that should just be sure
not to speak to reporters or politicians about homeschooling.
Anyone who doubts it should just go to google.com and look randomly for
combinations of homeschooling and Christian and
discipline
materials
obedience
heritage
digest
godly
IF they were to be exposed for what they're doing, homeschooling would change
for all of us, and that's one of the bits of tension that holds the
homeschooling movement together. They get the test scores and we keep them from
looking like the threat to peace and the government that they intend to build up to
being. We don't expose their total separatist insanity in exchange for them
not cutting liberal homeschoolers off altogether. Some groups try, but they
get reminded pretty easily that they need to cool it. For one thing, they
claim regularly to have invented homeschooling, after which liberals rode their
coattails. That's a lie and their leaders know it, but they don't retract it.
It's a big evil we can only stop by endangering our own freedom to homeschool.
Bummer. But still it's good to know about them, because our children will
have to live with the products of their indoctrination into a whole 'nother
history and science and worldview.
Sandra
<< I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the
concentration camps were a sham.
<<I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman
just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system.
She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery,
too?" >>
I think it's important for unschoolers to understand the extent to which
hundreds of thousands of structured homeschoolers go to indoctrinate their
children in a worldview which is not based on objective information.
As important as it is to know about the holocaust at some point, it's
important for more liberal homeschoolers to REALLY take a look at the face of the
conservative homeschoolers' teachings.
If we don't know the kinds of things that are going on, or if we see them as
a very small part of homeschooling (they are a very LARGE part and there will
be millions of them if there aren't already), we will make false statements
and embarrass ourselves and thereby be plainly wrong.
If someone says "Homeschoolers try to keep their children away from (choose
one from the following list)
...other people
...the world
... people who are different than they are
...evolution
...global village ideas
...children's rights"
Then the only true and right answers will need to be "Some do..." or "Our
family doesn't."
The answers I've heard newer, liberal homeschoolers give are "WHAT!? That's
ridiculous," and "No they don't. Homeschoolers are out in the world..."
Those statements are untrue.
So while I'm not dedicating my life to exposing or stopping them, it's worth
reminding people once in a while that yes there ARE people homeschooling
because they don't believe in the holocaust, that slavery was bad, or that the
Grand Canyon is old, and they want to tell their children a pack of
historic-revisionist, scientific-propaganda ink's-not-yet-dry lies. They don't allow their
children to think for themselves or to read all kinds of things to make their
own decisions. They don't allow their children to socialize outside their own
narrow belief system. They don't allow their children to learn naturally
from the worl around them nor even sometimes to BE in the world.
Anyone who doesn't know that or doesn't want to know that should just be sure
not to speak to reporters or politicians about homeschooling.
Anyone who doubts it should just go to google.com and look randomly for
combinations of homeschooling and Christian and
discipline
materials
obedience
heritage
digest
godly
IF they were to be exposed for what they're doing, homeschooling would change
for all of us, and that's one of the bits of tension that holds the
homeschooling movement together. They get the test scores and we keep them from
looking like the threat to peace and the government that they intend to build up to
being. We don't expose their total separatist insanity in exchange for them
not cutting liberal homeschoolers off altogether. Some groups try, but they
get reminded pretty easily that they need to cool it. For one thing, they
claim regularly to have invented homeschooling, after which liberals rode their
coattails. That's a lie and their leaders know it, but they don't retract it.
It's a big evil we can only stop by endangering our own freedom to homeschool.
Bummer. But still it's good to know about them, because our children will
have to live with the products of their indoctrination into a whole 'nother
history and science and worldview.
Sandra
Tia Graham
<<IF they were to be exposed for what they're doing, homeschooling would
change
for all of us, and that's one of the bits of tension that holds the
homeschooling movement together. They get the test scores and we keep
them from
looking like the threat to peace and the government that they intend to
build up to
being. >>
Might I humbly suggest, that it's also thier structured days and
curriculums that help the whole of homeschooling, especially unschoolers,
stay under the radar and be as "un" as you want? Unschooling is a really
radical way to think for the average citizen, even among those already
open and sometimes practicing non-traditional methods in thier lives. The
bulk of society and government is not really ready to see all of
homeschooling as loose and free as unschoolers live, and the pretty
records and plans of the more structured/traditional homeschoolers allows
a veneer for the whole movement to use as an umbrella of validity.
<<It's a big evil we can only stop by endangering our own freedom to
homeschool>>
For both sides. I think everyone puts up with alot of things they don't
personally agree with in order to protect the greater freedom.
Tia in Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
change
for all of us, and that's one of the bits of tension that holds the
homeschooling movement together. They get the test scores and we keep
them from
looking like the threat to peace and the government that they intend to
build up to
being. >>
Might I humbly suggest, that it's also thier structured days and
curriculums that help the whole of homeschooling, especially unschoolers,
stay under the radar and be as "un" as you want? Unschooling is a really
radical way to think for the average citizen, even among those already
open and sometimes practicing non-traditional methods in thier lives. The
bulk of society and government is not really ready to see all of
homeschooling as loose and free as unschoolers live, and the pretty
records and plans of the more structured/traditional homeschoolers allows
a veneer for the whole movement to use as an umbrella of validity.
<<It's a big evil we can only stop by endangering our own freedom to
homeschool>>
For both sides. I think everyone puts up with alot of things they don't
personally agree with in order to protect the greater freedom.
Tia in Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
this is all really, really scary.. I've encountered some of this stuff
too.
On a personal note .. a man who lived two doors down when I was a kid
was a concentration camp survivor. I remember the number on his arm, and
that he never spoke, never smiled. I learned when I was older that he
was the only one of his family that survived.
and, another random thought,
Last year, I saw an email on a local group - a woman was sharing info
about a test she was going to give her teenaged son to make sure that he
had "the proper christian worldview".
my two cents,
susan
too.
On a personal note .. a man who lived two doors down when I was a kid
was a concentration camp survivor. I remember the number on his arm, and
that he never spoke, never smiled. I learned when I was older that he
was the only one of his family that survived.
and, another random thought,
Last year, I saw an email on a local group - a woman was sharing info
about a test she was going to give her teenaged son to make sure that he
had "the proper christian worldview".
my two cents,
susan
On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 12:59 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/25/03 8:04:20 AM, ecologymom@... writes:
>
> << I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the
> concentration camps were a sham.
>
> <<I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the
> woman
> just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school
> system.
> She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to
> slavery,
> too?" >>
>
> I think it's important for unschoolers to understand the extent to which
> hundreds of thousands of structured homeschoolers go to indoctrinate
> their
> children in a worldview which is not based on objective information.
>
> As important as it is to know about the holocaust at some point, it's
> important for more liberal homeschoolers to REALLY take a look at the
> face of the
> conservative homeschoolers' teachings.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
Oh! What is that test called? Principle Approach hails itself as
being THE homeschooling method that brings about high results on that
test...can't remember what it is called. However, don't make a broad
connection between the white supremacist from KONOS-land, and a
Christian worldview.
They are NOT the same thing. white supremacists don't live by
Christian standards of charity, forgiveness, scholarship. I'm not
even saying that CHRISTIANS live by those standards. I'm not EVEN
saying that *I* live by them! LOL What I am saying is, Christianity,
the religion, has high standards of charity, forgiveness, humility,
helpfulness, and scholarship.
blessings, HeidiC
being THE homeschooling method that brings about high results on that
test...can't remember what it is called. However, don't make a broad
connection between the white supremacist from KONOS-land, and a
Christian worldview.
They are NOT the same thing. white supremacists don't live by
Christian standards of charity, forgiveness, scholarship. I'm not
even saying that CHRISTIANS live by those standards. I'm not EVEN
saying that *I* live by them! LOL What I am saying is, Christianity,
the religion, has high standards of charity, forgiveness, humility,
helpfulness, and scholarship.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], seanachai048@e... wrote:
> this is all really, really scary.. I've encountered some of this
stuff
> too.
>
> On a personal note .. a man who lived two doors down when I was a
kid
> was a concentration camp survivor. I remember the number on his
arm, and
> that he never spoke, never smiled. I learned when I was older that
he
> was the only one of his family that survived.
>
> and, another random thought,
> Last year, I saw an email on a local group - a woman was sharing
info
> about a test she was going to give her teenaged son to make sure
that he
> had "the proper christian worldview".
>
> my two cents,
> susan
>
> On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 12:59 PM, SandraDodd@a...
wrote:
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/25/03 8:04:20 AM, ecologymom@y... writes:
> >
> > << I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who
thought the
> > concentration camps were a sham.
> >
> > <<I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet.
But the
> > woman
> > just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public
school
> > system.
> > She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to
> > slavery,
> > too?" >>
> >
> > I think it's important for unschoolers to understand the extent
to which
> > hundreds of thousands of structured homeschoolers go to
indoctrinate
> > their
> > children in a worldview which is not based on objective
information.
> >
> > As important as it is to know about the holocaust at some point,
it's
> > important for more liberal homeschoolers to REALLY take a look at
the
> > face of the
> > conservative homeschoolers' teachings.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I wasn't trying to make a correlation. The konos thread just triggered
the thought. I have no idea what the test was called. I don't know that
she said. What I found unsettling was the idea of giving a teenager some
standard test to make sure that they had the "proper" world view. I'd
like to think that by the time my kids are teenagers they will be
capable of forming their own world view. The idea of a parent testing to
make sure their child had the proper one bothered me.
There is also a great range of what "christian" means. The test was
being given by a woman who is very conservative Christian, and not
tolerant of those who are not cons. xtian. Polite, usually, but not
tolerant. Many of the cons. xtians I've met are highly judgemental. The
thought of giving a kid a test on their views kind of bothers me.
When I want to know what my teenager thinks, I ask her.
peace,
susan
the thought. I have no idea what the test was called. I don't know that
she said. What I found unsettling was the idea of giving a teenager some
standard test to make sure that they had the "proper" world view. I'd
like to think that by the time my kids are teenagers they will be
capable of forming their own world view. The idea of a parent testing to
make sure their child had the proper one bothered me.
There is also a great range of what "christian" means. The test was
being given by a woman who is very conservative Christian, and not
tolerant of those who are not cons. xtian. Polite, usually, but not
tolerant. Many of the cons. xtians I've met are highly judgemental. The
thought of giving a kid a test on their views kind of bothers me.
When I want to know what my teenager thinks, I ask her.
peace,
susan
On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 10:21 PM, Heidi wrote:
> Oh! What is that test called? Principle Approach hails itself as
> being THE homeschooling method that brings about high results on that
> test...can't remember what it is called. However, don't make a broad
> connection between the white supremacist from KONOS-land, and a
> Christian worldview.
>
> They are NOT the same thing. white supremacists don't live by
> Christian standards of charity, forgiveness, scholarship. I'm not
> even saying that CHRISTIANS live by those standards. I'm not EVEN
> saying that *I* live by them! LOL What I am saying is, Christianity,
> the religion, has high standards of charity, forgiveness, humility,
> helpfulness, and scholarship.
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
> --- In [email protected], seanachai048@e... wrote:
> > this is all really, really scary.. I've encountered some of this
> stuff
> > too.
> >
> > On a personal note .. a man who lived two doors down when I was a
> kid
> > was a concentration camp survivor. I remember the number on his
> arm, and
> > that he never spoke, never smiled. I learned when I was older that
> he
> > was the only one of his family that survived.
> >
> > and, another random thought,
> > Last year, I saw an email on a local group - a woman was sharing
> info
> > about a test she was going to give her teenaged son to make sure
> that he
> > had "the proper christian worldview".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
Hi Susan
I have to agree with you, about the idea of testing for worldview. I
wonder what the questions on that test are, and how they "steer" the
testee. Like any test, it's going to pinpoint the things that the
creators of the test want to highlight, bringing up certain things,
and ignoring others.
For instance, I wonder if that test asks any questions about the
purposes of feasting. :) which I consider one of THE important
aspects of a Christian worldview. ;) What questions are there about
working and enjoying the fruit of one's labors, loving the wife of
your youth, (okay, the spouse of your youth LOL), the aesthetic value
of the navel...and so forth. I wonder if any of THOSE questions are
on that test!
blessings, HeidiC
I have to agree with you, about the idea of testing for worldview. I
wonder what the questions on that test are, and how they "steer" the
testee. Like any test, it's going to pinpoint the things that the
creators of the test want to highlight, bringing up certain things,
and ignoring others.
For instance, I wonder if that test asks any questions about the
purposes of feasting. :) which I consider one of THE important
aspects of a Christian worldview. ;) What questions are there about
working and enjoying the fruit of one's labors, loving the wife of
your youth, (okay, the spouse of your youth LOL), the aesthetic value
of the navel...and so forth. I wonder if any of THOSE questions are
on that test!
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], seanachai048@e... wrote:
> I wasn't trying to make a correlation. The konos thread just
triggered
> the thought. I have no idea what the test was called. I don't know
that
> she said. What I found unsettling was the idea of giving a teenager
some
> standard test to make sure that they had the "proper" world view.
I'd
> like to think that by the time my kids are teenagers they will be
> capable of forming their own world view. The idea of a parent
testing to
> make sure their child had the proper one bothered me.
>
> There is also a great range of what "christian" means. The test was
> being given by a woman who is very conservative Christian, and not
> tolerant of those who are not cons. xtian. Polite, usually, but not
> tolerant. Many of the cons. xtians I've met are highly judgemental.
The
> thought of giving a kid a test on their views kind of bothers me.
>
> When I want to know what my teenager thinks, I ask her.
>
> peace,
> susan
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/03 5:09:45 AM, seanachai048@... writes:
<< There is also a great range of what "christian" means. The test was
being given by a woman who is very conservative Christian, and not
tolerant of those who are not cons. xtian. Polite, usually, but not
tolerant. Many of the cons. xtians I've met are highly judgemental. The
thought of giving a kid a test on their views kind of bothers me. >>
Right. "Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.
<<When I want to know what my teenager thinks, I ask her.>>
If their teenager doesn't think what they TOLD them to think, they're
disobedient sinners.
Sandra
<< There is also a great range of what "christian" means. The test was
being given by a woman who is very conservative Christian, and not
tolerant of those who are not cons. xtian. Polite, usually, but not
tolerant. Many of the cons. xtians I've met are highly judgemental. The
thought of giving a kid a test on their views kind of bothers me. >>
Right. "Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.
<<When I want to know what my teenager thinks, I ask her.>>
If their teenager doesn't think what they TOLD them to think, they're
disobedient sinners.
Sandra
Holly Shaltz
Sandra writes:
<<"Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.>>
I find this statement extraordinary. There undoubtedly are many
intolerant people, some of whom homeschool, of a variety of spiritual
beliefs. But to assume that all people who call themselves
homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.
I've known a lot of homsechoolers over the years. Some were unaccepting
of others' beliefs, methods, motivations, other were much more pleasant
to be around. There's no way their religion could have been used to
divide these folks into 'sheep' and 'goats'. To do that is to treat
others the way we dislike being treated.
Holly
<<"Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.>>
I find this statement extraordinary. There undoubtedly are many
intolerant people, some of whom homeschool, of a variety of spiritual
beliefs. But to assume that all people who call themselves
homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.
I've known a lot of homsechoolers over the years. Some were unaccepting
of others' beliefs, methods, motivations, other were much more pleasant
to be around. There's no way their religion could have been used to
divide these folks into 'sheep' and 'goats'. To do that is to treat
others the way we dislike being treated.
Holly
Fetteroll
on 9/28/03 1:15 PM, Holly Shaltz at holly@... wrote:
Christian. It is a name adopted by a specific segment of Christians who are
homeschoolers.
They are fundamentalist Christians. It's very likely they would not consider
most of the Christians here to be Christian. (The debates we used to have on
AOL's homeschooling boards over who was a True Christian :-/)
They belong to HSLDA. They form support groups with statements of faith. It
is a political movement even if some of them don't realize it. They teach
their kids revisionist history. (Peter Marshall's The Light and the Glory:
Discovering God's Plan for America from Columbus to George Washington was
very popular at one time. I'm assuming it still is.)
Patrick Henry College is part of it. It's a college for homeschooled kids --
fundamentalist Christian homeschooled kids -- who are being groomed for
politics.
If some or all of this is news to you, a good place to start is More
Information About HSLDA (http://folchslda.homestead.com/MoreInfo.html)
Joyce
> I find this statement extraordinary. There undoubtedly are manyChristian homeschoolers are not just homeschoolers who happen to be
> intolerant people, some of whom homeschool, of a variety of spiritual
> beliefs. But to assume that all people who call themselves
> homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
> itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.
Christian. It is a name adopted by a specific segment of Christians who are
homeschoolers.
They are fundamentalist Christians. It's very likely they would not consider
most of the Christians here to be Christian. (The debates we used to have on
AOL's homeschooling boards over who was a True Christian :-/)
They belong to HSLDA. They form support groups with statements of faith. It
is a political movement even if some of them don't realize it. They teach
their kids revisionist history. (Peter Marshall's The Light and the Glory:
Discovering God's Plan for America from Columbus to George Washington was
very popular at one time. I'm assuming it still is.)
Patrick Henry College is part of it. It's a college for homeschooled kids --
fundamentalist Christian homeschooled kids -- who are being groomed for
politics.
If some or all of this is news to you, a good place to start is More
Information About HSLDA (http://folchslda.homestead.com/MoreInfo.html)
Joyce
Fetteroll
Before this goes down the path that it always goes down, be aware that not
everyone is using the word Christian the same way.
To the broad spectrum of mainstream America, Christian means not Buddhist,
not Jewish, not Hindu, not Muslim. Obviously Christian means more than that,
but it's a broad religion encompassing a fair slew of beliefs and practices
centered around Jesus Christ.
But fundamentalist Christians of the most conservative type, identify their
narrow practice of Christianity as Christian. Period. No one is Christian
regardless of what you call yourselves. Not Lutherans. Not Episcopalians.
And very most definitely not Mormons or Catholics.
It'd be pointless to argue whether the spread of this movement is truth or
politics, but, regardless, it has a powerful political component. There are
many practices and beliefs in fundamentalism (of any belief system) that are
easily encouraged and exploited by those who want to create a movement.
(Which leads into HSLDA and Reconstructionists and lots else. The Christian
political movement is huge and you should be aware of it, especially since
it has an effect on homeschooling laws.)
People who use the word Christian to mean fundamentalist Christian are not
at fault and shouldn't be attacked. They are using the word the
fundamentalists Christians use for themselves. If you want to be angry at
anyone, be angry at the fundamentalist Christians for appropriating the word
Christian and turning it into something narrow that doesn't reflect your
beliefs.
Since most (mainstream) Christians tend to feel their religion is private so
don¹t discuss it much and the (fundamentalist) Christians are very vocal
about their beliefs some people do mistakenly equate fundamentalist beliefs
with all Christians. That is not chance. When fundamentalist Christians
speak their opinions, they self identify themselves as Christians as though
they¹re speaking for all (mainstream) Christians but are actually only
speaking for their narrow definition of Christianity.
It is *not* safe to make assumptions about how someone is using the word
Christian. If you guess wrong you will be, once again, going down the
rancorous path we just visited of two people who think they¹re arguing
different points of view about the same subject, when they aren¹t discussing
the same subject at all.
*Please* read and respond thoughtfully, with all this in mind. If you are
not aware of the extent of the Christian political movement, then be aware
that there are people here with a great deal more knowledge on the subject
of ³Christians² than you have.
This topic is *always* a minefield of misunderstanding. All because the
political movement of fundamentalist Christians has (deliberately) chosen to
identify themselves as Christians.
Joyce
everyone is using the word Christian the same way.
To the broad spectrum of mainstream America, Christian means not Buddhist,
not Jewish, not Hindu, not Muslim. Obviously Christian means more than that,
but it's a broad religion encompassing a fair slew of beliefs and practices
centered around Jesus Christ.
But fundamentalist Christians of the most conservative type, identify their
narrow practice of Christianity as Christian. Period. No one is Christian
regardless of what you call yourselves. Not Lutherans. Not Episcopalians.
And very most definitely not Mormons or Catholics.
It'd be pointless to argue whether the spread of this movement is truth or
politics, but, regardless, it has a powerful political component. There are
many practices and beliefs in fundamentalism (of any belief system) that are
easily encouraged and exploited by those who want to create a movement.
(Which leads into HSLDA and Reconstructionists and lots else. The Christian
political movement is huge and you should be aware of it, especially since
it has an effect on homeschooling laws.)
People who use the word Christian to mean fundamentalist Christian are not
at fault and shouldn't be attacked. They are using the word the
fundamentalists Christians use for themselves. If you want to be angry at
anyone, be angry at the fundamentalist Christians for appropriating the word
Christian and turning it into something narrow that doesn't reflect your
beliefs.
Since most (mainstream) Christians tend to feel their religion is private so
don¹t discuss it much and the (fundamentalist) Christians are very vocal
about their beliefs some people do mistakenly equate fundamentalist beliefs
with all Christians. That is not chance. When fundamentalist Christians
speak their opinions, they self identify themselves as Christians as though
they¹re speaking for all (mainstream) Christians but are actually only
speaking for their narrow definition of Christianity.
It is *not* safe to make assumptions about how someone is using the word
Christian. If you guess wrong you will be, once again, going down the
rancorous path we just visited of two people who think they¹re arguing
different points of view about the same subject, when they aren¹t discussing
the same subject at all.
*Please* read and respond thoughtfully, with all this in mind. If you are
not aware of the extent of the Christian political movement, then be aware
that there are people here with a great deal more knowledge on the subject
of ³Christians² than you have.
This topic is *always* a minefield of misunderstanding. All because the
political movement of fundamentalist Christians has (deliberately) chosen to
identify themselves as Christians.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/03 2:35:51 PM, holly@... writes:
<< <<"Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.>>
<<I find this statement extraordinary... >>
Didn't you see my quotation marks and my definition?
<<But to assume that all people who call themselves
homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.>>
I wasn't talking about people who call themselves "homeschoolers *and*
Christians."
I was talking about intolerant fundamentalists who call themselves Christian
Homeschoolers.
<<I've known a lot of homsechoolers over the years. >>
Me too!
<< There's no way their religion could have been used to
divide these folks into 'sheep' and 'goats'. To do that is to treat
others the way we dislike being treated.>>
You missed the point, though I did write carefully.
The difference between Christian Homeschoolers and all other homeschoolers IS
by their definition the difference between sheep (them) and goats (a.k.a.
secular, worldly, the rest of us).
Even within their sheep fold, they argue about the fine points of their
statements of faith, and they divide themselves in to more and more exclusive
groups over such weighty and world-changing dangers as Hallowe'en, Harry Potter,
whether kids are allowed to play with non-Christians or even with other
Christians, whether their kids can watch television or listen to worldly music, or
even to Christian rock.
Yesterday (completely unrelated to this, yet applicable) Holly was in the car
while my husband and I joked about the dichotomy the world becomes if our
choices are "Knowledge is power" and "ignorance is bliss."
Blissful ignorance isn't always so happy, and knowledge doesn't bring with it
the power to forget what you've just learned.
To be so near to information and to speak without finding it, though, is
neither bliss nr power.
Sandra
<< <<"Christian homeschooler" indicates those intolerant fundamentalists.>>
<<I find this statement extraordinary... >>
Didn't you see my quotation marks and my definition?
<<But to assume that all people who call themselves
homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.>>
I wasn't talking about people who call themselves "homeschoolers *and*
Christians."
I was talking about intolerant fundamentalists who call themselves Christian
Homeschoolers.
<<I've known a lot of homsechoolers over the years. >>
Me too!
<< There's no way their religion could have been used to
divide these folks into 'sheep' and 'goats'. To do that is to treat
others the way we dislike being treated.>>
You missed the point, though I did write carefully.
The difference between Christian Homeschoolers and all other homeschoolers IS
by their definition the difference between sheep (them) and goats (a.k.a.
secular, worldly, the rest of us).
Even within their sheep fold, they argue about the fine points of their
statements of faith, and they divide themselves in to more and more exclusive
groups over such weighty and world-changing dangers as Hallowe'en, Harry Potter,
whether kids are allowed to play with non-Christians or even with other
Christians, whether their kids can watch television or listen to worldly music, or
even to Christian rock.
Yesterday (completely unrelated to this, yet applicable) Holly was in the car
while my husband and I joked about the dichotomy the world becomes if our
choices are "Knowledge is power" and "ignorance is bliss."
Blissful ignorance isn't always so happy, and knowledge doesn't bring with it
the power to forget what you've just learned.
To be so near to information and to speak without finding it, though, is
neither bliss nr power.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/28/2003 3:31:59 PM Central Standard Time,
holly@... writes:
homeschoolers and then there are Christian Homeschoolers. In the second case the word
Christian is not merely and adjective, but an identification.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
holly@... writes:
> But to assume that all people who call themselvesI think the difference is that there are Christians who happen to be
> homeschoolers *and* Christians are 'intolerant fundamentalists' is in
> itself incredibly intolerant and judgmental.
>
homeschoolers and then there are Christian Homeschoolers. In the second case the word
Christian is not merely and adjective, but an identification.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]