Konos
sonyacurti
I keep hearing about this Konos and not just from here in books and
the name keeps sticking out at me ! I tried check our libraries and
it's no where to be found. Does anyone know where I can get this ???
Thanks,
Sonya
the name keeps sticking out at me ! I tried check our libraries and
it's no where to be found. Does anyone know where I can get this ???
Thanks,
Sonya
Fetteroll
on 9/24/03 6:22 PM, sonyacurti at jcurtielectric@... wrote:
You can find it at http://www.konos.com
It doesn't even remotely resemble unschooling. It's a huge amount of work
for one family and families generally find it very helpful to do it
cooperatively with other KONOS families.
Joyce
> I keep hearing about this Konos and not just from here in books andIt's a curriculum privately published by a fundamentalist Christian woman.
> the name keeps sticking out at me ! I tried check our libraries and
> it's no where to be found. Does anyone know where I can get this ???
You can find it at http://www.konos.com
It doesn't even remotely resemble unschooling. It's a huge amount of work
for one family and families generally find it very helpful to do it
cooperatively with other KONOS families.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/25/2003 5:10:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
It doesn't even remotely resemble unschooling. It's a huge amount of work
for one family and families generally find it very helpful to do it
cooperatively with other KONOS families.
We bought KONOS once many moons ago....it's exactly as Joyce said...a HUGE
amount of work for the parent, especially, trying to track down and buy things
for the unit studies.
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
It doesn't even remotely resemble unschooling. It's a huge amount of work
for one family and families generally find it very helpful to do it
cooperatively with other KONOS families.
We bought KONOS once many moons ago....it's exactly as Joyce said...a HUGE
amount of work for the parent, especially, trying to track down and buy things
for the unit studies.
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dee Boggs
Sonya,
Here is the link for the curriculum Konos www.konos.com. When we first started homeschooling a number of years ago I was persuaded to join a Konos co-op by some homeschooling friends. I didn't know any unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers at the time in my area. I probably have the books in a box in my storage shed some place.
This is my personal experience with Konos---it is all about the parent's education. The parents spend hours and hours going to the library looking up books (instead of kids looking up books or browsing for things they are interested in), collecting materials, planning lessons, and teaching lessons. Whew. Konos consumed MY life.
Sure, my kids had fun doing some of the activities. They will tell you that they have some nice memories, but would never do it again because it was all parent-driven and too conservative.
Konos was too conservative for us...the curriculum tended emphasize a very conservative Christian viewpoint. Thus, it attracts very conservative people. I guess someone could use Konos and omit those parts, but that isn't how it played out in our co-op.
Our family doesn't fit into that conservative Christian mold, so I had to discussion some things as soon as we got in the car to go home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the concentration camps were a sham.
I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system. She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery, too?" I could see there was no point in discussing this further with this woman. There was no room in our co-op for opposing viewpoints. I later found out that she was in the Daughters of the Confederacy and a Christian white supremacist group.
As soon as my kids and I were in our car, I immediately told them that I had a very strong difference of opinion on this one and that I didn't think we should continue with the co-op. I said I wanted my kids to talk to some friends at Quaker meeting who did have first hand knowledge of WW II and Nazi Germany. My kids were getting a little tired of the conservatism, lack of freedom for kids to express their opinion, etc. so they agreed that we should stop our involvement.
I see the Konos moms every now and then, and they usually say something about how wonderful Konos is. They believe Konos is the only way to homeschool. The revisionist mom is very cool toward me. She probably still refers to me as the brainwashed mom. LOL.
I probably got burned out sooner than some because the moms in my co-op always wanted me to teach science units. It was a lot of work just hauling microscopes and other science stuff from my lab to the car to my home back to the car to the coop back to my home and back to the lab. They brought Debbie cakes and Kool-Aid as their job. I might have lasted longer if that is all that I had to do. <grin>
Also, because it was parent-driven, I had to deal with kids who didn't really care at all about the science topics we were covering, even though we did some fun activities. The kids always wanted to be entertained because that is what Konos was about in our coop. The Moms were the entertainment.
I had planned what I thought was a really cool activity with marbles and ramps to teach physics. My son was into physics at the time. The kids didn't want to build ramps and didn't want to talk about physics. The activity ended with kids of all ages throwing marbles around the room. I think the kids had a lot of fun with those marbles, but I could have saved myself a lot of time and just brought a big bag of marbles!
There may be a way an unschooling kid could use Konos as an idea book, but we didn't find it useful.
Dee
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here is the link for the curriculum Konos www.konos.com. When we first started homeschooling a number of years ago I was persuaded to join a Konos co-op by some homeschooling friends. I didn't know any unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers at the time in my area. I probably have the books in a box in my storage shed some place.
This is my personal experience with Konos---it is all about the parent's education. The parents spend hours and hours going to the library looking up books (instead of kids looking up books or browsing for things they are interested in), collecting materials, planning lessons, and teaching lessons. Whew. Konos consumed MY life.
Sure, my kids had fun doing some of the activities. They will tell you that they have some nice memories, but would never do it again because it was all parent-driven and too conservative.
Konos was too conservative for us...the curriculum tended emphasize a very conservative Christian viewpoint. Thus, it attracts very conservative people. I guess someone could use Konos and omit those parts, but that isn't how it played out in our co-op.
Our family doesn't fit into that conservative Christian mold, so I had to discussion some things as soon as we got in the car to go home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the concentration camps were a sham.
I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system. She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery, too?" I could see there was no point in discussing this further with this woman. There was no room in our co-op for opposing viewpoints. I later found out that she was in the Daughters of the Confederacy and a Christian white supremacist group.
As soon as my kids and I were in our car, I immediately told them that I had a very strong difference of opinion on this one and that I didn't think we should continue with the co-op. I said I wanted my kids to talk to some friends at Quaker meeting who did have first hand knowledge of WW II and Nazi Germany. My kids were getting a little tired of the conservatism, lack of freedom for kids to express their opinion, etc. so they agreed that we should stop our involvement.
I see the Konos moms every now and then, and they usually say something about how wonderful Konos is. They believe Konos is the only way to homeschool. The revisionist mom is very cool toward me. She probably still refers to me as the brainwashed mom. LOL.
I probably got burned out sooner than some because the moms in my co-op always wanted me to teach science units. It was a lot of work just hauling microscopes and other science stuff from my lab to the car to my home back to the car to the coop back to my home and back to the lab. They brought Debbie cakes and Kool-Aid as their job. I might have lasted longer if that is all that I had to do. <grin>
Also, because it was parent-driven, I had to deal with kids who didn't really care at all about the science topics we were covering, even though we did some fun activities. The kids always wanted to be entertained because that is what Konos was about in our coop. The Moms were the entertainment.
I had planned what I thought was a really cool activity with marbles and ramps to teach physics. My son was into physics at the time. The kids didn't want to build ramps and didn't want to talk about physics. The activity ended with kids of all ages throwing marbles around the room. I think the kids had a lot of fun with those marbles, but I could have saved myself a lot of time and just brought a big bag of marbles!
There may be a way an unschooling kid could use Konos as an idea book, but we didn't find it useful.
Dee
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Sonya,
I have it and will try to look for it and give you an address. BUT! this is
VERY "school at home" lots of work, very expensive. you will spend hours,
weeks, days in preparation, NOT unschooling AT ALL. If you still are
interested, I will be happy to try to dig it up for you, but I promise, this is what
we started with 7 years ago, and it is NOT Unschool
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have it and will try to look for it and give you an address. BUT! this is
VERY "school at home" lots of work, very expensive. you will spend hours,
weeks, days in preparation, NOT unschooling AT ALL. If you still are
interested, I will be happy to try to dig it up for you, but I promise, this is what
we started with 7 years ago, and it is NOT Unschool
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
Woah, Dee, what a terrible experience! I never had an opportunity to
get with other KONOS families, and just bought the first book and
picked and chose from it, whenever I needed an idea for something to
make my kids study. LOL
We did the medieval feast with a little homeschooler support group, in
our first year of homeschooling, and also used the ideas in the Five
Senses units...we actually disected pig eyeballs, which was MUCH more
nauseous than you can imagine! ewwww...blch...
I still have that old KONOS book on my shelf of homeschool resources,
and haul it out once in awhile, because I consider it a
resource...booklists, music, other tie-ins. I never even tried to
follow it 100%,...NO WAY, not even when I was in my most schooly mode.
If you follow it, it isn't unschooly, but if you pick and choose, or
if the kids find something in there that they want to do...it could be
part of an unschooly home library.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], Dee Boggs
<ecologymom@y...> wrote:
join a Konos co-op by some homeschooling friends. I didn't know any
unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers at the time in my area. I
probably have the books in a box in my storage shed some place.
library looking up books (instead of kids looking up books or browsing
for things they are interested in), collecting materials, planning
lessons, and teaching lessons. Whew. Konos consumed MY life.
because it was all parent-driven and too conservative.
conservative people. I guess someone could use Konos and omit those
parts, but that isn't how it played out in our co-op.
home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more
than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the
curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII
unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't
happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was
speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the
concentration camps were a sham.
get with other KONOS families, and just bought the first book and
picked and chose from it, whenever I needed an idea for something to
make my kids study. LOL
We did the medieval feast with a little homeschooler support group, in
our first year of homeschooling, and also used the ideas in the Five
Senses units...we actually disected pig eyeballs, which was MUCH more
nauseous than you can imagine! ewwww...blch...
I still have that old KONOS book on my shelf of homeschool resources,
and haul it out once in awhile, because I consider it a
resource...booklists, music, other tie-ins. I never even tried to
follow it 100%,...NO WAY, not even when I was in my most schooly mode.
If you follow it, it isn't unschooly, but if you pick and choose, or
if the kids find something in there that they want to do...it could be
part of an unschooly home library.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], Dee Boggs
<ecologymom@y...> wrote:
> Sonya,first started homeschooling a number of years ago I was persuaded to
>
> Here is the link for the curriculum Konos www.konos.com. When we
join a Konos co-op by some homeschooling friends. I didn't know any
unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers at the time in my area. I
probably have the books in a box in my storage shed some place.
>parent's education. The parents spend hours and hours going to the
> This is my personal experience with Konos---it is all about the
library looking up books (instead of kids looking up books or browsing
for things they are interested in), collecting materials, planning
lessons, and teaching lessons. Whew. Konos consumed MY life.
> Sure, my kids had fun doing some of the activities. They will tellyou that they have some nice memories, but would never do it again
because it was all parent-driven and too conservative.
>a very conservative Christian viewpoint. Thus, it attracts very
> Konos was too conservative for us...the curriculum tended emphasize
conservative people. I guess someone could use Konos and omit those
parts, but that isn't how it played out in our co-op.
>had to discussion some things as soon as we got in the car to go
> Our family doesn't fit into that conservative Christian mold, so I
home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more
than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the
curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII
unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't
happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was
speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the
concentration camps were a sham.
Julie Bogart
> --- In [email protected], Dee Boggsthe
> <ecologymom@y...> wrote:
> > Sonya,
> > This is my personal experience with Konos---it is all about
> parent's education. The parents spend hours and hours goingto the
> library looking up books (instead of kids looking up books orbrowsing
> for things they are interested in), collecting materials, planninglife.
> lessons, and teaching lessons. Whew. Konos consumed MY
This is my identical experience too. In fact, I was a part of a
KONOS group for five years. We thoroughly enjoyed the activites
and field trips etc. But my kids didn't retain almost any of the
details the way they do now that they are learning according to
*thier* interests and not a predetermined unit chosen by me.
The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the
> curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led theWWII
> unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust reallydidn't
> happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. Iwas
> speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thoughtthe
> concentration camps were a sham.My mouth is hanging open. I can't understand this for a moment.
What does anyone have to gain believing the Holocaust didn't
happen? How does a conservative fall into that view more easily
than liberals?
I'm feeling a bit nauseous considering it.
This reminded me of a conversation i had with a mom who told
me "I'm not prejudiced or anything, I just don't want my children
making friends with other races because we don't believe in
inter-marriage." I had never heard anyone say this outloud before
and I was stunned into silence.
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/03 7:18:11 AM, julie@... writes:
<< My mouth is hanging open. I can't understand this for a moment.
What does anyone have to gain believing the Holocaust didn't
happen? How does a conservative fall into that view more easily
than liberals? >>
Conservatives who are interested in the idea of white supremecy like to think
the Nazis weren't so wrong and the European Jews are whining liars.
You can find their stuff online pretty easily. It is truly sickening, though.
Sandra
<< My mouth is hanging open. I can't understand this for a moment.
What does anyone have to gain believing the Holocaust didn't
happen? How does a conservative fall into that view more easily
than liberals? >>
Conservatives who are interested in the idea of white supremecy like to think
the Nazis weren't so wrong and the European Jews are whining liars.
You can find their stuff online pretty easily. It is truly sickening, though.
Sandra
coyote's corner
There are folks that deny the Armenian Genocide happened in Turkey - re-writing history has been going on for a long time.
When I was a kid - almost 50 years ago - we learned in our local Catholic Church (Azorean parish) that when the Portuguese arrived on the Azores - the Islands were inhabited. The people said that - the books said that -
now the books say that the Islands were uninhabited.
Re-writing history....
makes you wonder about so many things...doesn't it?
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
www.coyotescorner.com
When I was a kid - almost 50 years ago - we learned in our local Catholic Church (Azorean parish) that when the Portuguese arrived on the Azores - the Islands were inhabited. The people said that - the books said that -
now the books say that the Islands were uninhabited.
Re-writing history....
makes you wonder about so many things...doesn't it?
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
www.coyotescorner.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Konos
In a message dated 9/26/03 7:18:11 AM, julie@... writes:
<< My mouth is hanging open. I can't understand this for a moment.
What does anyone have to gain believing the Holocaust didn't
happen? How does a conservative fall into that view more easily
than liberals? >>
Conservatives who are interested in the idea of white supremecy like to think
the Nazis weren't so wrong and the European Jews are whining liars.
You can find their stuff online pretty easily. It is truly sickening, though.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gothmom527
wow, somebody mentioned the Azores! albeit in the context of a
possible genocide coverup... which i have never heard anything about,
but then i am apparently a lot younger than you & maybe embarassing
history has been revised out since then? i lived there a little over
a decade ago & my grandfather was Azorean, but he has been dead for 15
years now & i don't think there is anyone to ask.
kimberleigh
*so proud of my heritage that i have the galo de barcelos tattooed on
my arm!*
--- In [email protected], "coyote's corner"
<jana@c...> wrote:
the Azores - the Islands were inhabited. The people said that - the
books said that -
possible genocide coverup... which i have never heard anything about,
but then i am apparently a lot younger than you & maybe embarassing
history has been revised out since then? i lived there a little over
a decade ago & my grandfather was Azorean, but he has been dead for 15
years now & i don't think there is anyone to ask.
kimberleigh
*so proud of my heritage that i have the galo de barcelos tattooed on
my arm!*
--- In [email protected], "coyote's corner"
<jana@c...> wrote:
> There are folks that deny the Armenian Genocide happened in Turkey -re-writing history has been going on for a long time.
> When I was a kid - almost 50 years ago - we learned in our localCatholic Church (Azorean parish) that when the Portuguese arrived on
the Azores - the Islands were inhabited. The people said that - the
books said that -
> now the books say that the Islands were uninhabited.
>
> Re-writing history....
> makes you wonder about so many things...doesn't it?
> Janis
> Coyotes Corner
> Very Cool Stuff for the World
> www.coyotescorner.com
>
Crystal
> kimberleighon my arm!*>>>
> *so proud of my heritage that i have the galo de barcelos tattooed
You have a tattoo of a rooster? My husband has a keychain with the
galo do barcelos from when his friend visited Algarve in Portugal
last spring.
Crystal
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/03 11:34:59 AM, crystal.pina@... writes:
<< You have a tattoo of a rooster? >>
In my prior experience, a person with such a tattoo is building up to saying
"Do you want to see my cock?"
Sandra
<< You have a tattoo of a rooster? >>
In my prior experience, a person with such a tattoo is building up to saying
"Do you want to see my cock?"
Sandra
gothmom527
something that i swear did not cross my mind once BEFORE getting the
tattoo! however, the minute i had it, people immediately started
making the jokes (which should have been obvious to me prior).
kimberleigh
tattoo! however, the minute i had it, people immediately started
making the jokes (which should have been obvious to me prior).
kimberleigh
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/27/03 11:34:59 AM, crystal.pina@v... writes:
>
> << You have a tattoo of a rooster? >>
>
> In my prior experience, a person with such a tattoo is building up
to saying
> "Do you want to see my cock?"
>
> Sandra
gothmom527
yep, i do have the ubiquitous rooster on my arm in living color.
kimberleigh
-
kimberleigh
-
>
> You have a tattoo of a rooster? My husband has a keychain with the
> galo do barcelos from when his friend visited Algarve in Portugal
> last spring.
>
> Crystal
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/2003 8:33:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
I'd say the attendees at the Live & Learn Unschooling Conference would
DEFINITELY qualify as "radical unschoolers".
And I'd say that the attendees at the Bob Jones conferences/conventions/book
fairs would be considered "fundamentalist Christians or Christian
homeschoolers".
I don't think either is stereotypical. I think it's obvious.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
>>>But I would no more call a group of people radical unschoolers than I wouldcall a group fundamentalist Christian or a group Christian homeschoolers.<<<
I'd say the attendees at the Live & Learn Unschooling Conference would
DEFINITELY qualify as "radical unschoolers".
And I'd say that the attendees at the Bob Jones conferences/conventions/book
fairs would be considered "fundamentalist Christians or Christian
homeschoolers".
I don't think either is stereotypical. I think it's obvious.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
wait a sec
I'd go to both of those events...well, maybe not the Bob Jones
version of the conference/book fair, but one closer to home
called "Raising a Generation of Christian Statesmen" (and, I would
take notes! Probably would be tempted by, but wouldn't buy, the books
available, too.)...
and, I'd go to the local homeschoolers support group if I was just a
little bit closer.
you see, trying to rub elbows with a WIDE VARIETY of people is
important to me. It's important to me that my kids learn about a wide
variety of methods, beliefs, etc. We listen to Rush Limbaugh AND
National Public Radio. Not much of either, anymore, though. We've had
simultaneous subscriptions to Discover magazine and Creation ex
Nihilo, in the past when we could afford magazines.
you can't look at a group of people, no matter where they happen to
be physically, and make a broad judgment about where they're all at,
philosophically.
blessings, HeidiC
I'd go to both of those events...well, maybe not the Bob Jones
version of the conference/book fair, but one closer to home
called "Raising a Generation of Christian Statesmen" (and, I would
take notes! Probably would be tempted by, but wouldn't buy, the books
available, too.)...
and, I'd go to the local homeschoolers support group if I was just a
little bit closer.
you see, trying to rub elbows with a WIDE VARIETY of people is
important to me. It's important to me that my kids learn about a wide
variety of methods, beliefs, etc. We listen to Rush Limbaugh AND
National Public Radio. Not much of either, anymore, though. We've had
simultaneous subscriptions to Discover magazine and Creation ex
Nihilo, in the past when we could afford magazines.
you can't look at a group of people, no matter where they happen to
be physically, and make a broad judgment about where they're all at,
philosophically.
blessings, HeidiC
> I'd say the attendees at the Live & Learn Unschooling Conferencewould
> DEFINITELY qualify as "radical unschoolers".conferences/conventions/book
>
> And I'd say that the attendees at the Bob Jones
> fairs would be considered "fundamentalist Christians or Christian
> homeschoolers".
>
> I don't think either is stereotypical. I think it's obvious.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 9/29/03 10:40 AM, Heidi at bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:
is a "Them" who want to be separate from those who aren't "Them". The
division was created by "Them" and that's the way "They" want it.
If your friend doesn't fit that description then she isn't one of the ones
who want to be separate from the rest of us.
Joyce
> you can't look at a group of people, no matter where they happen toNo one's trying to separate Us from Them. It's being pointed out that there
> be physically, and make a broad judgment about where they're all at,
> philosophically.
is a "Them" who want to be separate from those who aren't "Them". The
division was created by "Them" and that's the way "They" want it.
If your friend doesn't fit that description then she isn't one of the ones
who want to be separate from the rest of us.
Joyce
Heidi
Yeah, there is :( There is a separatist, isolationist, "glorify-
Victorian-era-anything" group out there, and that's sad.
HeidiC
Victorian-era-anything" group out there, and that's sad.
HeidiC
> No one's trying to separate Us from Them. It's being pointed outthat there
> is a "Them" who want to be separate from those who aren't "Them".The
> division was created by "Them" and that's the way "They" want it.
> Joyce
Annette
Konos was too conservative for us...the curriculum tended emphasize a very conservative Christian viewpoint. Thus, it attracts very conservative people. I guess someone could use Konos and omit those parts, but that isn't how it played out in our co-op.
Our family doesn't fit into that conservative Christian mold, so I had to discussion some things as soon as we got in the car to go home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the concentration camps were a sham.
I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system. She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery, too?" I could see there was no point in discussing this further with this woman. There was no room in our co-op for opposing viewpoints. I later found out that she was in the Daughters of the Confederacy and a Christian white supremacist group.
As soon as my kids and I were in our car, I immediately told them that I had a very strong difference of opinion on this one and that I didn't think we should continue with the co-op. I said I wanted my kids to talk to some friends at Quaker meeting who did have first hand knowledge of WW II and Nazi Germany. My kids were getting a little tired of the conservatism, lack of freedom for kids to express their opinion, etc. so they agreed that we should stop our involvement.
Dee,
I know I'm chiming in late on this. What a horrible experience you had! I want to comment because I would describe myself as a conservative Christina - independent, fundamental. I'm sure that conjures up all sorts of things in your mind based upon your experiences with other conservative Christians. My core faith has remained constant over the years, but I am very much an unschooler, too, with a respect for the child as an individual. I find TCS, attachment parenting, and unschooling consistent with biblical teaching and God's grace and love - it is more biblical in my belief than the strict misinterpretations about child rearing that I observe in some fellow believers. My children have noticed that they often receive less respectful treatment from both children and adults of similar faith. We spend a lot of time de-briefing as well. My children have a more relaxed, less competitive, less arugmentative time when playing with children in an eclectic group. This saddens them and me (not that they have a good time, but that they don't have that same experience in a faith-based group :).)
While I have heard of people who do not believe in the holocost, I never imagined such an individual could be found in a homeschooling group teaching young children. How disheartening!
I want to thank you and others on the list who consistently show grace and acceptance to those of different faith. As you and others have observed, this is sadly not common in individuals of my faith.
Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Our family doesn't fit into that conservative Christian mold, so I had to discussion some things as soon as we got in the car to go home...eg. the earth was created in 6 literal days and was no more than 10,000 years old. The final straw for me was (this wasn't in the curriculum, but just the interpretation of the woman who led the WWII unit) when the mom taught the kids that the Holocaust really didn't happen...or if it did happen, then it was greatly exaggerated. I was speechless. I had never met anyone personally who thought the concentration camps were a sham.
I said something to the "teacher"...I just couldn't be quiet. But the woman just dismissed me as someone who was brainwashed by the public school system. She said, "And I suppose you think the Civil War was connected to slavery, too?" I could see there was no point in discussing this further with this woman. There was no room in our co-op for opposing viewpoints. I later found out that she was in the Daughters of the Confederacy and a Christian white supremacist group.
As soon as my kids and I were in our car, I immediately told them that I had a very strong difference of opinion on this one and that I didn't think we should continue with the co-op. I said I wanted my kids to talk to some friends at Quaker meeting who did have first hand knowledge of WW II and Nazi Germany. My kids were getting a little tired of the conservatism, lack of freedom for kids to express their opinion, etc. so they agreed that we should stop our involvement.
Dee,
I know I'm chiming in late on this. What a horrible experience you had! I want to comment because I would describe myself as a conservative Christina - independent, fundamental. I'm sure that conjures up all sorts of things in your mind based upon your experiences with other conservative Christians. My core faith has remained constant over the years, but I am very much an unschooler, too, with a respect for the child as an individual. I find TCS, attachment parenting, and unschooling consistent with biblical teaching and God's grace and love - it is more biblical in my belief than the strict misinterpretations about child rearing that I observe in some fellow believers. My children have noticed that they often receive less respectful treatment from both children and adults of similar faith. We spend a lot of time de-briefing as well. My children have a more relaxed, less competitive, less arugmentative time when playing with children in an eclectic group. This saddens them and me (not that they have a good time, but that they don't have that same experience in a faith-based group :).)
While I have heard of people who do not believe in the holocost, I never imagined such an individual could be found in a homeschooling group teaching young children. How disheartening!
I want to thank you and others on the list who consistently show grace and acceptance to those of different faith. As you and others have observed, this is sadly not common in individuals of my faith.
Annette
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Holly Shaltz
Kelly writes:
<<I'd say the attendees at the Live & Learn Unschooling Conference would
DEFINITELY qualify as "radical unschoolers".
And I'd say that the attendees at the Bob Jones
conferences/conventions/book fairs would be considered "fundamentalist
Christians or Christian
homeschoolers".>>
And by doing so, an "us or them" mentality is maintained. "They" are
causing "us" grief in their usual <fill in the blank> way. Overlooking
the fact that many people attending the Bob Jones conference may be
unschoolers in disguise, or may be school at homers because they haven't
been able to talk to unschoolers because they've been labelled
fundamentalist intolerant Christians.
Labels count. I'm sure a wide variety of people on this list ended up
taking their kids out of school because of the way their kids were
labeled. That can be a positive result of labelling--but I don't think
there's many positive results.
Holly
<<I'd say the attendees at the Live & Learn Unschooling Conference would
DEFINITELY qualify as "radical unschoolers".
And I'd say that the attendees at the Bob Jones
conferences/conventions/book fairs would be considered "fundamentalist
Christians or Christian
homeschoolers".>>
And by doing so, an "us or them" mentality is maintained. "They" are
causing "us" grief in their usual <fill in the blank> way. Overlooking
the fact that many people attending the Bob Jones conference may be
unschoolers in disguise, or may be school at homers because they haven't
been able to talk to unschoolers because they've been labelled
fundamentalist intolerant Christians.
Labels count. I'm sure a wide variety of people on this list ended up
taking their kids out of school because of the way their kids were
labeled. That can be a positive result of labelling--but I don't think
there's many positive results.
Holly
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/03 7:14:15 AM, holly@... writes:
<< And by doing so, an "us or them" mentality is maintained. "They" are
causing "us" grief in their usual <fill in the blank> way. >>
That's not the benefit of considering ourselves radical unschoolers.
If I tell other homeschoolers early on that I'm an unschooler, it spares me a
lot of wasted conversation and confusion. They won't bother asking me
whether I use ABeka or Bob Jones, for one big thing. And IF there is someone in
that conversation who has been wondering about unschooling and hears me say
that, she will come ask me for more information. It has happened.
<<Overlooking
the fact that many people attending the Bob Jones conference may be
unschoolers in disguise, or may be school at homers because they haven't
been able to talk to unschoolers because they've been labelled
fundamentalist intolerant Christians.>>
Or haven't been able to talk to unschoolers because they're attending a Bob
Jones conference where speakers are branding unschoolers as lazy godless freaks.
If unschoolers in disguise attend Christian conferences, then they're not
even nearly the people we're talking about.
Sandra
<< And by doing so, an "us or them" mentality is maintained. "They" are
causing "us" grief in their usual <fill in the blank> way. >>
That's not the benefit of considering ourselves radical unschoolers.
If I tell other homeschoolers early on that I'm an unschooler, it spares me a
lot of wasted conversation and confusion. They won't bother asking me
whether I use ABeka or Bob Jones, for one big thing. And IF there is someone in
that conversation who has been wondering about unschooling and hears me say
that, she will come ask me for more information. It has happened.
<<Overlooking
the fact that many people attending the Bob Jones conference may be
unschoolers in disguise, or may be school at homers because they haven't
been able to talk to unschoolers because they've been labelled
fundamentalist intolerant Christians.>>
Or haven't been able to talk to unschoolers because they're attending a Bob
Jones conference where speakers are branding unschoolers as lazy godless freaks.
If unschoolers in disguise attend Christian conferences, then they're not
even nearly the people we're talking about.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/30/2003 1:41:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Kathryn, who is thinking about getting a sex-change so she can be a straight
white male, because the whole oppression thing is getting really old<<<
Hey, Kathryn! My dad does that!
Well, not the surgery, but the drugs and the therapy. Let me know when you're
ready. I can get you a DEAL!
~Kelly <g>
who loves Kathryn just the way she IS!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Kathryn, who is thinking about getting a sex-change so she can be a straight
white male, because the whole oppression thing is getting really old<<<
Hey, Kathryn! My dad does that!
Well, not the surgery, but the drugs and the therapy. Let me know when you're
ready. I can get you a DEAL!
~Kelly <g>
who loves Kathryn just the way she IS!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]