Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Police Scare today
[email protected]
I would take them for some walks about the area during the day so people see
that they are home during the day and maybe visit the businesses in the area.
The businesses may not be told due to personal rights of the children so maybe
in they know by seeing you all or them asking they may not call next time.
I dont know the laws there but I cant imagine keeping my son in the yard all
day. Your children have rights also. They where not truant and who says they
have to stay at home all day?
Call someone in your state that knows the laws well and get the skinny then
you will feel free to be.
Laura
<<<<<< I don't frequent the list a lot, as I'm usually to busy to
participate. However, today I got a scare and I need to share and
get some imput.
My boys 6 & 7 y/o went out today to feed and water the dogs,
when they finished they came back in and asked to play outdoors. I
had no problem with that, so out they went. However, today they
decided to venture out the gate (without permission). We live in
the village and own the property between 2 streets. They went out
the back on the less traveled street and next door onto the edge of
the parking lot of a local business. Someone at that business
called the police and the police picked the boys up and came to the
door. For some reason the boys told the officer I wasn't home,
probably not wanting to get into trouble. He said if he didn't find
me at home he was going to call FIA. Then he started complaining
that they aren't in school and don't know anything, etc, etc. I
couldn't believe what I was hearing and what was happening, as the
boys hadn't been outside more than 10 to 15 minutes. He wanted
their names, ages, my name and phone number and how many kids I had,
I gave him the info. and told him they were privately schooled (we
live in Michigan). I'm not sure if I should have gave him that
info., as I couldn't think at the time. He gave me and the boys a
lecture and finally let them out of his car for me to take inside.
I kept telling him I needed to go, as I had an infant that was
sleeping inside, but he kept going on and on.
The thing that gets me is our society expects children to be
locked up between certain hours of the day and if kids are out
during that time frame, people get up in arms about it. I don't
want to feel like I have to lock my kids up during school hours, but
I don't like dealing with situations like what happened today either.
There's some kids my sons age that runs all over town, all of
the time,outside of school hours and the police never pick them up.
They walk across town to play with my kids, because I won't let my
kids outside the yard without supervision. Here I am, the cautious
parent and I get hasseled just because my kids happened to venture
outside the gate during school hours. My husband just happened to
be on the part of his mail route that comes near our home when he
saw the officer leaving. He came home worried something had
happened to one of us, only to find out the above. He wasn't only
up-set that the boys left the yard without permission, but that the
police were even called. Why do people feel they need to meddle?
Now, I feel like I can't let my kids outside during the day, even in
their own yard and I'm worried this officer is going to watch our
place and call FIA if he see the kids out to often, so I'm
frustrated! What would you do? I want to move now.
Robin >>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that they are home during the day and maybe visit the businesses in the area.
The businesses may not be told due to personal rights of the children so maybe
in they know by seeing you all or them asking they may not call next time.
I dont know the laws there but I cant imagine keeping my son in the yard all
day. Your children have rights also. They where not truant and who says they
have to stay at home all day?
Call someone in your state that knows the laws well and get the skinny then
you will feel free to be.
Laura
<<<<<< I don't frequent the list a lot, as I'm usually to busy to
participate. However, today I got a scare and I need to share and
get some imput.
My boys 6 & 7 y/o went out today to feed and water the dogs,
when they finished they came back in and asked to play outdoors. I
had no problem with that, so out they went. However, today they
decided to venture out the gate (without permission). We live in
the village and own the property between 2 streets. They went out
the back on the less traveled street and next door onto the edge of
the parking lot of a local business. Someone at that business
called the police and the police picked the boys up and came to the
door. For some reason the boys told the officer I wasn't home,
probably not wanting to get into trouble. He said if he didn't find
me at home he was going to call FIA. Then he started complaining
that they aren't in school and don't know anything, etc, etc. I
couldn't believe what I was hearing and what was happening, as the
boys hadn't been outside more than 10 to 15 minutes. He wanted
their names, ages, my name and phone number and how many kids I had,
I gave him the info. and told him they were privately schooled (we
live in Michigan). I'm not sure if I should have gave him that
info., as I couldn't think at the time. He gave me and the boys a
lecture and finally let them out of his car for me to take inside.
I kept telling him I needed to go, as I had an infant that was
sleeping inside, but he kept going on and on.
The thing that gets me is our society expects children to be
locked up between certain hours of the day and if kids are out
during that time frame, people get up in arms about it. I don't
want to feel like I have to lock my kids up during school hours, but
I don't like dealing with situations like what happened today either.
There's some kids my sons age that runs all over town, all of
the time,outside of school hours and the police never pick them up.
They walk across town to play with my kids, because I won't let my
kids outside the yard without supervision. Here I am, the cautious
parent and I get hasseled just because my kids happened to venture
outside the gate during school hours. My husband just happened to
be on the part of his mail route that comes near our home when he
saw the officer leaving. He came home worried something had
happened to one of us, only to find out the above. He wasn't only
up-set that the boys left the yard without permission, but that the
police were even called. Why do people feel they need to meddle?
Now, I feel like I can't let my kids outside during the day, even in
their own yard and I'm worried this officer is going to watch our
place and call FIA if he see the kids out to often, so I'm
frustrated! What would you do? I want to move now.
Robin >>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/23/03 6:09:17 PM, Nest4Robin@... writes:
<< There's some kids my sons age that runs all over town, all of
the time,outside of school hours and the police never pick them up. >>
Are you sure?
Maybe they've been picked up once and talked to about how to avoid it in
future.
<<They went out
the back on the less traveled street and next door onto the edge of
the parking lot of a local business. Someone at that business
called the police and the police picked the boys up and came to the
door. >>
Six and seven is really young to be out without adults, isn't it? Not that
school kids aren't walking home at that age, but not very far, and there are
others around and crossing guards (in some towns anyway; we have them here).
Were the people at the business afraid the kids might do damage to cars or
windows? Were they playing with rocks? Had they asked the boys to go home?
<< He wasn't only
up-set that the boys left the yard without permission, but that the
police were even called. Why do people feel they need to meddle? >>
If there were boys on your property and you didn't really want them there,
would you ask them to leave? If you chose to call someone and reporte it, would
you consider it meddling in their lives?
<<Now, I feel like I can't let my kids outside during the day, even in
their own yard and I'm worried this officer is going to watch our
place and call FIA if he see the kids out to often, so I'm
frustrated! What would you do? >>
I would tell the kids to stay in the yard until other kids were out of school
until they got older.
When my older kids have gone out of earshot of the house, I've sent a 3x5
card with them, with their names and addresses, my name and phone number, and it
says "Kirby (or whoever) is homeschooled and has my permission to be
(wherever)." I got my kids state ID cards (Kirby's got punched as no longer his
primary ID this morning when he got his provisional driver's license), because some
things require a student ID or picture ID, so I figured a state ID was the
coolest thing anyway, since it looks like a driver's license.
My guess on the policeman's questions was that he was doing a routine job,
trying to scare them a bit about being out and trying (possibly) to impress on
you the importance of knowing where they are all the time. If they were
evasive or didn't answer his questions fully and truly, he was right to be
suspicious. They said you weren't home and you were; did they avoid telling other
things? Did they know their phone number and all that?
People forget the trouble kids can (and do) get into walking back and forth
from school. But during school hours if school-aged kids are out in parking
lots or other places where kids aren't usually, it's assumed they're not where
they're supposed to be. How many years have "school hours" been part of
people's language? More than two generations.
I don't think it's worth moving or being really frustrated about.
Sandra
<< There's some kids my sons age that runs all over town, all of
the time,outside of school hours and the police never pick them up. >>
Are you sure?
Maybe they've been picked up once and talked to about how to avoid it in
future.
<<They went out
the back on the less traveled street and next door onto the edge of
the parking lot of a local business. Someone at that business
called the police and the police picked the boys up and came to the
door. >>
Six and seven is really young to be out without adults, isn't it? Not that
school kids aren't walking home at that age, but not very far, and there are
others around and crossing guards (in some towns anyway; we have them here).
Were the people at the business afraid the kids might do damage to cars or
windows? Were they playing with rocks? Had they asked the boys to go home?
<< He wasn't only
up-set that the boys left the yard without permission, but that the
police were even called. Why do people feel they need to meddle? >>
If there were boys on your property and you didn't really want them there,
would you ask them to leave? If you chose to call someone and reporte it, would
you consider it meddling in their lives?
<<Now, I feel like I can't let my kids outside during the day, even in
their own yard and I'm worried this officer is going to watch our
place and call FIA if he see the kids out to often, so I'm
frustrated! What would you do? >>
I would tell the kids to stay in the yard until other kids were out of school
until they got older.
When my older kids have gone out of earshot of the house, I've sent a 3x5
card with them, with their names and addresses, my name and phone number, and it
says "Kirby (or whoever) is homeschooled and has my permission to be
(wherever)." I got my kids state ID cards (Kirby's got punched as no longer his
primary ID this morning when he got his provisional driver's license), because some
things require a student ID or picture ID, so I figured a state ID was the
coolest thing anyway, since it looks like a driver's license.
My guess on the policeman's questions was that he was doing a routine job,
trying to scare them a bit about being out and trying (possibly) to impress on
you the importance of knowing where they are all the time. If they were
evasive or didn't answer his questions fully and truly, he was right to be
suspicious. They said you weren't home and you were; did they avoid telling other
things? Did they know their phone number and all that?
People forget the trouble kids can (and do) get into walking back and forth
from school. But during school hours if school-aged kids are out in parking
lots or other places where kids aren't usually, it's assumed they're not where
they're supposed to be. How many years have "school hours" been part of
people's language? More than two generations.
I don't think it's worth moving or being really frustrated about.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/23/2003 9:50:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
wandering my street without an adult in the vicinity. Too many things can happen to
children. It's our job to protect them and keep them safe.
I walk to school every single day with an 11 year old and a 5 year old who
don't have other adults to accompany them.
I can also understand store owners being concerned about young children out
and about and playing in front of their store. How many customers do you think
asked him whose kids they were and he/she didn't know.
I also can understand two little boys slipping away to play while Mom is
occupied with something else. However I wouldn't blame others and wonder what was
wrong with THEM that they were concerned about my children. I'd be thankful
they were fine and that nothing, including my children had been hurt. I'd be
grateful someone took the time to call and make sure my children got home
safely. I'd be embarrassed that I didn't have a better watchful eye on them. I'd
talk to them about the importance of staying where I can see/hear them or
respecting their own property and not upsetting someone as to call the police on
them.
In my County you might have been arrested for neglect. It happens a couple
times a year when a younger child wanders out of their yard and the Mom/dad
doesn't seem to even notice the children missing. The call it neglect and it
gets ugly for the parents, name in the paper, CPS involved, real ugly.
I don't think it's so much that the children were out of the yard but that
you didn't know they were missing that probably sent up some kind of warning
signal that made the officer ask so many questions. It takes awhile of loitering
before someone calls to report children to the police and takes time for the
officer to respond and question the boys, all the while no mother comes
calling or looking for them.
That's probably what they were so interested in. I'd say they did their job.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Six and seven is really young to be out without adults, isn't it? Not thatI agree. I would be very upset if I found a six and a seven year old
>
> school kids aren't walking home at that age, but not very far, and there are
>
> others around and crossing guards (in some towns anyway; we have them here).
>
>
wandering my street without an adult in the vicinity. Too many things can happen to
children. It's our job to protect them and keep them safe.
I walk to school every single day with an 11 year old and a 5 year old who
don't have other adults to accompany them.
I can also understand store owners being concerned about young children out
and about and playing in front of their store. How many customers do you think
asked him whose kids they were and he/she didn't know.
I also can understand two little boys slipping away to play while Mom is
occupied with something else. However I wouldn't blame others and wonder what was
wrong with THEM that they were concerned about my children. I'd be thankful
they were fine and that nothing, including my children had been hurt. I'd be
grateful someone took the time to call and make sure my children got home
safely. I'd be embarrassed that I didn't have a better watchful eye on them. I'd
talk to them about the importance of staying where I can see/hear them or
respecting their own property and not upsetting someone as to call the police on
them.
In my County you might have been arrested for neglect. It happens a couple
times a year when a younger child wanders out of their yard and the Mom/dad
doesn't seem to even notice the children missing. The call it neglect and it
gets ugly for the parents, name in the paper, CPS involved, real ugly.
I don't think it's so much that the children were out of the yard but that
you didn't know they were missing that probably sent up some kind of warning
signal that made the officer ask so many questions. It takes awhile of loitering
before someone calls to report children to the police and takes time for the
officer to respond and question the boys, all the while no mother comes
calling or looking for them.
That's probably what they were so interested in. I'd say they did their job.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
That's what Brianna & I do. We have a neighbor that is very sick. We walk to his house every day and feed his cat, clean the litter box, do some cleaning. We walk to the post office, etc. Everyone around here knows us.
Brianna goes in the yard alone and top the library, which is directly behind our home.
Janis
Brianna goes in the yard alone and top the library, which is directly behind our home.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: liza sabater
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Police Scare today
On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 08:07 PM, primalmother wrote:
> There's some kids my sons age that runs all over town, all of
> the time,outside of school hours and the police never pick them up.
Robin, I feel for you. It most have been a heck of a scare.
Now, 6-7 year olds walking across town!?!? That's odd. Still, I live in
NYC and have little knowledge of the comings and goings of people in
the rest of the US. As they say, there is NYC and then there is the US
:-)
I think that the best thing you can do is walkwalkwalk EVERYWHERE
EVERYDAY with your kids. Here in my little piece of the Big Apple,
everybody and their mother knows my family. They may not know our
names, but I have people recognize me in other parts of town as the mom
with the two boys that go everywhere together. In a city where nobody
knows even your face, everybody knows us. They know we homeschool, they
know we are around. They expect to see us around. We took a
mini-vacation this past week and people noticed our absence.
It has always been important for me that my kids have a strong sense of
community and that means, knowing our postman, grocers, pharmacists,
area policemen, firemen, area nannies, building supers, etc.
Unschooling for us is an opportunity to not just be out and about in
our neighborhood but to live fully in it.
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.clonlara.org/">Click here: Clonlara School was founded in 1967 as an innovative, private day
school functioning as a day school serving 5 thr</A>
That is rediculous, I personally feel you have nothing to worry about. I
also llive in Michigan. If you have not heard of the above organization it is
great and the director has lobbied most of our great homeschooling laws. Her
name is Pat Montgomery and she has been at homeschooling for 32 yrs. She has lots
of experience in these matters because Clonlara is nationwide and some
states have very strict laws. If you have any problems contact her or if you just
want peace of mind. I am sure she would be interested in what happened to you.
Good luck. Bye the way, Clonlara is in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Cindy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
school functioning as a day school serving 5 thr</A>
That is rediculous, I personally feel you have nothing to worry about. I
also llive in Michigan. If you have not heard of the above organization it is
great and the director has lobbied most of our great homeschooling laws. Her
name is Pat Montgomery and she has been at homeschooling for 32 yrs. She has lots
of experience in these matters because Clonlara is nationwide and some
states have very strict laws. If you have any problems contact her or if you just
want peace of mind. I am sure she would be interested in what happened to you.
Good luck. Bye the way, Clonlara is in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Cindy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
primalmother
Thanks Cindy,
My girls are enrolled in Clonlara. I didn't see a need to pay
the tutition for the boys, but maybe I was wrong about that now.
Robin
My girls are enrolled in Clonlara. I didn't see a need to pay
the tutition for the boys, but maybe I was wrong about that now.
Robin
--- In [email protected], TheFadels@a... wrote:
> <A HREF="http://www.clonlara.org/">Click here: Clonlara School was
founded in 1967 as an innovative, private day
> school functioning as a day school serving 5 thr</A>
>
> That is rediculous, I personally feel you have nothing to worry
about. I
> also llive in Michigan. If you have not heard of the above
organization it is
> great and the director has lobbied most of our great homeschooling
laws. Her
> name is Pat Montgomery and she has been at homeschooling for 32
yrs. She has lots
> of experience in these matters because Clonlara is nationwide and
some
> states have very strict laws. If you have any problems contact
her or if you just
> want peace of mind. I am sure she would be interested in what
happened to you.
>
> Good luck. Bye the way, Clonlara is in Ann Arbor Michigan.
> Cindy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***Six and seven is really young to be out without adults, isn't it? ***
Maybe it depends where you live. In small townville here little kids are
out by themselves all the time.
Little kindergarten kids walk to school and home again by themselves.
It's accepted here and happens all the time. Weird but true.
Deb L, who's eleven year old has a chauffeur.<g>
Maybe it depends where you live. In small townville here little kids are
out by themselves all the time.
Little kindergarten kids walk to school and home again by themselves.
It's accepted here and happens all the time. Weird but true.
Deb L, who's eleven year old has a chauffeur.<g>
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/24/2003 9:47:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ddzimlew@... writes:
people looking at for them right?
I live in a fairly small town as well, but kids just out alone are not a
common occurrence.
We do have one "child" who is now probably 18 that basically the neighborhood
raised since he was probably five. He was/is an oddity, everyone looked out
for him and whispered under their breath about the "poor child" and his lack of
caring parents.
At ten he would be found five miles out in town at night on his bicycle
ordering a child's meal from the Ruby Tuesdays eating alone. Some kind neighbor
would put the bike in their car and drive him back home in the dark.
The police took this kid home so much they got tired of it. Ten years ago
our Police Force was kinder, today they have no patience for that kind of thing
and parents get in big trouble.
Oh, the kid who "raised" himself, he's gets plenty of attention these days
from the police force, he's their guest for the third time in two years, this
time for about 18 months.
I will say that young children do play in our neighborhood, but there are
always parents who are in the yard, on the porch, in the kitchen with the door
open. Maybe because we are in a residential neighborhood and no commercial
activity goes on it's more tolerated. Maybe they figure if you're on your street
and your Mom knows where you are it's OK. If they wander much farther than
their own street, someone is likely to call someone and usually not the parent.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ddzimlew@... writes:
> Maybe it depends where you live. In small townville here little kids areBut they walk in groups and there are other adults out and about and school
> out by themselves all the time.
> Little kindergarten kids walk to school and home again by themselves.
> It's accepted here and happens all the time. Weird but true.
>
>
people looking at for them right?
I live in a fairly small town as well, but kids just out alone are not a
common occurrence.
We do have one "child" who is now probably 18 that basically the neighborhood
raised since he was probably five. He was/is an oddity, everyone looked out
for him and whispered under their breath about the "poor child" and his lack of
caring parents.
At ten he would be found five miles out in town at night on his bicycle
ordering a child's meal from the Ruby Tuesdays eating alone. Some kind neighbor
would put the bike in their car and drive him back home in the dark.
The police took this kid home so much they got tired of it. Ten years ago
our Police Force was kinder, today they have no patience for that kind of thing
and parents get in big trouble.
Oh, the kid who "raised" himself, he's gets plenty of attention these days
from the police force, he's their guest for the third time in two years, this
time for about 18 months.
I will say that young children do play in our neighborhood, but there are
always parents who are in the yard, on the porch, in the kitchen with the door
open. Maybe because we are in a residential neighborhood and no commercial
activity goes on it's more tolerated. Maybe they figure if you're on your street
and your Mom knows where you are it's OK. If they wander much farther than
their own street, someone is likely to call someone and usually not the parent.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:
wold send us 2 miles to the shops to fetch her fags n milk. She never
had a doubt that it wasn't perfectly safe. I started letting Heather
play out the front of my house when she was 7 as long as she didn't
leave the pavement (sidewalk) and go past a certain lampost. Now she's
11 I would be sending her to the shops either walking or on the bus if
Stepford had either shops or buses.
I suppose back then there weren't any cars - well, not in the UK. I
didn't know anyone with a car until I was 15 and a neighbour bought one
which we all went to look at. The roads were safe for kids to go out
cycling all day with a pack of sandwhiches.
We certainly walked home from school alone from the age of 5.
It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>In a message dated 9/23/2003 9:50:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Boy how things have changed. When me and my sister were that age my mum
>SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
>
>>Six and seven is really young to be out without adults, isn't it? Not that
>>
>>school kids aren't walking home at that age, but not very far, and there are
>>
>>others around and crossing guards (in some towns anyway; we have them here).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I agree. I would be very upset if I found a six and a seven year old
>wandering my street without an adult in the vicinity. Too many things can happen to
>children. It's our job to protect them and keep them safe.
>
>I walk to school every single day with an 11 year old and a 5 year old who
>don't have other adults to accompany them.
>
wold send us 2 miles to the shops to fetch her fags n milk. She never
had a doubt that it wasn't perfectly safe. I started letting Heather
play out the front of my house when she was 7 as long as she didn't
leave the pavement (sidewalk) and go past a certain lampost. Now she's
11 I would be sending her to the shops either walking or on the bus if
Stepford had either shops or buses.
I suppose back then there weren't any cars - well, not in the UK. I
didn't know anyone with a car until I was 15 and a neighbour bought one
which we all went to look at. The roads were safe for kids to go out
cycling all day with a pack of sandwhiches.
We certainly walked home from school alone from the age of 5.
It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/24/2003 10:00:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
shyrley@... writes:
his was young his Mom would send him out to play, not expecting to see him
again until dark. He said he would ride his bike for miles all day, doing
whatever thing he decided to do that day. Fish at the lake, maybe someone's pond.
Go help a farmer pick cantaloupes all day and get paid. Ride with a friend
to see who could find a quicker route to a certain point. All with a peanut
butter sandwich and a thermos of koolaid.
Simpler times for sure. Weren't there weirdo's who abducted children back
then or did we just blissfully stay innocent of those people because our parents
chose to keep it from us?
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley@... writes:
> I suppose back then there weren't any cars - well, not in the UK. IIt was different even here in the US back then. My DH likes to remember when
> didn't know anyone with a car until I was 15 and a neighbour bought one
> which we all went to look at. The roads were safe for kids to go out
> cycling all day with a pack of sandwhiches.
> We certainly walked home from school alone from the age of 5.
>
> It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(
>
> Shyrley
>
>
his was young his Mom would send him out to play, not expecting to see him
again until dark. He said he would ride his bike for miles all day, doing
whatever thing he decided to do that day. Fish at the lake, maybe someone's pond.
Go help a farmer pick cantaloupes all day and get paid. Ride with a friend
to see who could find a quicker route to a certain point. All with a peanut
butter sandwich and a thermos of koolaid.
Simpler times for sure. Weren't there weirdo's who abducted children back
then or did we just blissfully stay innocent of those people because our parents
chose to keep it from us?
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***But they walk in groups and there are other adults out and about and
school
people looking at for them right?***
No, the little buggers just go as they please. Some have moms working in
the shops on main street and walk there after school. Country kids take
the busses. Kids on the west side take the busses when it's cold, but
when it's not they can go into the J&J Variety store and get candy for a
nickle and stop at the river and throw rocks. Kids with big brothers and
sisters walk from the elementary school to the high school (six or seven
blocks) to ride home with them. One little dude lives up our street,
walks to and from school every day. His name is Jason, he's six and he
walks nine blocks. Maybe he picks up a friend on his way, I don't know.
This is podunkville and the criminal activity mainly consists of bar
fights where drunken cowboys get punched by their drunk girlfriends.
Deb
school
people looking at for them right?***
No, the little buggers just go as they please. Some have moms working in
the shops on main street and walk there after school. Country kids take
the busses. Kids on the west side take the busses when it's cold, but
when it's not they can go into the J&J Variety store and get candy for a
nickle and stop at the river and throw rocks. Kids with big brothers and
sisters walk from the elementary school to the high school (six or seven
blocks) to ride home with them. One little dude lives up our street,
walks to and from school every day. His name is Jason, he's six and he
walks nine blocks. Maybe he picks up a friend on his way, I don't know.
This is podunkville and the criminal activity mainly consists of bar
fights where drunken cowboys get punched by their drunk girlfriends.
Deb
Robyn Coburn
<<We certainly walked home from school alone from the age of 5.
It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(>>
I know because I have checked the website that there are registered sex
offenders in our general area. Megan's Law. There is no way on earth
that Jayn goes anywhere without me, her father, or our one very trusted
lady neighbor. I live in Los Angeles, and we have Amber alerts on what
seem like a monthly basis. It is not about road safety for us.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(>>
I know because I have checked the website that there are registered sex
offenders in our general area. Megan's Law. There is no way on earth
that Jayn goes anywhere without me, her father, or our one very trusted
lady neighbor. I live in Los Angeles, and we have Amber alerts on what
seem like a monthly basis. It is not about road safety for us.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:
murdered a number of children. I also remember an announcement at school
assembly when I was 7 or 8 of a weirdo pretending to be a policeman to
abduct kids.
All the statistics say that child abductions and murders haven't risen
in 30 years, its just that we have become aware of them. Children are
more likely to be murdered by a family member than by a stranger. This
doesn't stop us feeling paranoid though, and I have to be careful not to
allow it to control me or my kids. I'm more concerned with traffic
danger. There are a million times more cars out there and they drive
faster and less attentively :-(
I'm forever telling my neighbours to slow down cos kids are playing.
Grrrrrrrrrrrr
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>In a message dated 9/24/2003 10:00:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,There must of been some weirdos. ie. Myra Hinckley in the 60's who
>shyrley@... writes:
>
>
>
>>I suppose back then there weren't any cars - well, not in the UK. I
>>didn't know anyone with a car until I was 15 and a neighbour bought one
>>which we all went to look at. The roads were safe for kids to go out
>>cycling all day with a pack of sandwhiches.
>>We certainly walked home from school alone from the age of 5.
>>
>>It's sad that we've lost so much freedom in the Age of the Car :-(
>>
>>Shyrley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>It was different even here in the US back then. My DH likes to remember when
>his was young his Mom would send him out to play, not expecting to see him
>again until dark. He said he would ride his bike for miles all day, doing
>whatever thing he decided to do that day. Fish at the lake, maybe someone's pond.
>Go help a farmer pick cantaloupes all day and get paid. Ride with a friend
>to see who could find a quicker route to a certain point. All with a peanut
>butter sandwich and a thermos of koolaid.
>
>Simpler times for sure. Weren't there weirdo's who abducted children back
>then or did we just blissfully stay innocent of those people because our parents
>chose to keep it from us?
>
>glena
>
>
>
murdered a number of children. I also remember an announcement at school
assembly when I was 7 or 8 of a weirdo pretending to be a policeman to
abduct kids.
All the statistics say that child abductions and murders haven't risen
in 30 years, its just that we have become aware of them. Children are
more likely to be murdered by a family member than by a stranger. This
doesn't stop us feeling paranoid though, and I have to be careful not to
allow it to control me or my kids. I'm more concerned with traffic
danger. There are a million times more cars out there and they drive
faster and less attentively :-(
I'm forever telling my neighbours to slow down cos kids are playing.
Grrrrrrrrrrrr
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
primalmother wrote:
to what you mean.
TreeGoddess
>My girls are enrolled in Clonlara. I didn't see a need to pay the tutition for the boys, but maybe I was wrong about that now.Why would that have made any difference in this event? I'm confused as
>
to what you mean.
TreeGoddess
[email protected]
Nest4Robin@... writes:
hours, without a parent. He can't go out and play by himself and I've explained to
him why. It's tough, it's shitty, I can't stand it, he doesn't like it much
either, but it's what we gotta do to stay under "the man's" radar. lol .
He does go play in the back, but he knows why he shouldn't wander out the
gate. I've also explained that its safer for him to be outside with a group of
his friends rather than playing out front by himself, ie, his friends will come
tell me if he gets hurt or if something is wrong.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The thing that gets me is our society expects children to beUnfortunately, we have a curfew here in town. No kids out during school
> locked up between certain hours of the day and if kids are out
> during that time frame, people get up in arms about it. I don't
> want to feel like I have to lock my kids up during school hours, but
> I don't like dealing with situations like what happened today either.
hours, without a parent. He can't go out and play by himself and I've explained to
him why. It's tough, it's shitty, I can't stand it, he doesn't like it much
either, but it's what we gotta do to stay under "the man's" radar. lol .
He does go play in the back, but he knows why he shouldn't wander out the
gate. I've also explained that its safer for him to be outside with a group of
his friends rather than playing out front by himself, ie, his friends will come
tell me if he gets hurt or if something is wrong.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> It was different even here in the US back then. My DH likes to rememberwhen
> his was young his Mom would send him out to play, not expecting to see himsomeone's pond.
> again until dark. He said he would ride his bike for miles all day, doing
> whatever thing he decided to do that day. Fish at the lake, maybe
> Go help a farmer pick cantaloupes all day and get paid. Ride with afriend
> to see who could find a quicker route to a certain point. All with apeanut
> butter sandwich and a thermos of koolaid.I walked to and from school (6 blocks) starting in kindergarten. We went
out and played all day all over the neighbourhood.
>parents
> Simpler times for sure. Weren't there weirdo's who abducted children back
> then or did we just blissfully stay innocent of those people because our
> chose to keep it from us?There were. The media was different then. It didn't seem to have a quota
of scary tragedies to fill each day, not caring whether they happened down
the street or across the country. There were no abducted children from
anywhere around where I lived, so we didn't hear about them.
I think kids have been the big losers. They have no freedom anymore.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
pam sorooshian
Aimee - where is it that you still have a daytime curfew?
They've been transformed into anti-loitering laws in most places,
because straight-out daytime curfews were not being upheld in courts.
-pam
They've been transformed into anti-loitering laws in most places,
because straight-out daytime curfews were not being upheld in courts.
-pam
[email protected]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
(our Town President, who is now serving a nice long prison sentence for
insurance fraud, lovely, eh?) have passed laws that no one else would uphold, and the
challenges just don't come very often. We have anti-gang legislation, but not
anti-loitering. We have curfews, but the cops break more laws than the
citizens do. We have had State Police here because the local cops just couldn't
get it together. It's CRAZY.
I live in Cicero, IL. Craziest town in Chicagoland. Gangsta city, and we're
talking mobster gangster-old school. We have a new Town President, but it
looks like he's a puppet, too.
It's gettting better, but we're definitely wierd here. Sometimes I just zone
because it's too crazy to think about it all the time. And because officials
in the school system regularly lie to people and tell them homeschooling is
illegal, we don't have a lot of them, and we all keep a very low profile.
*grin*
~Aimee, who said more than you probably wanted to know
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Aimee - where is it that you still have a daytime curfew?I live in a VERY strange town. We have laws NO ONE ELSE has, I swear. We
>
> They've been transformed into anti-loitering laws in most places,
> because straight-out daytime curfews were not being upheld in courts.
>
> -pam
(our Town President, who is now serving a nice long prison sentence for
insurance fraud, lovely, eh?) have passed laws that no one else would uphold, and the
challenges just don't come very often. We have anti-gang legislation, but not
anti-loitering. We have curfews, but the cops break more laws than the
citizens do. We have had State Police here because the local cops just couldn't
get it together. It's CRAZY.
I live in Cicero, IL. Craziest town in Chicagoland. Gangsta city, and we're
talking mobster gangster-old school. We have a new Town President, but it
looks like he's a puppet, too.
It's gettting better, but we're definitely wierd here. Sometimes I just zone
because it's too crazy to think about it all the time. And because officials
in the school system regularly lie to people and tell them homeschooling is
illegal, we don't have a lot of them, and we all keep a very low profile.
*grin*
~Aimee, who said more than you probably wanted to know
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/24/2003 12:44:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
AimeeL73@... writes:
the three of us, sittin' up
in a hotel room, boozin' and
havin' a few laughs and
we ran out of ice.
So I went out to get some.
I come back, open the door
and there's Veronica and
Charlie doing Number Seventeen-
the spread eagle.
LOL Sorry, I've been watching too much Chicago lately. I immediately thought
about the Cell Block Tango.
Amy Kagey
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=1684902">Free shipping on </A><A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=1684902">Usborne Books</A> !
Join Usborne for only $29.95 in Sept!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AimeeL73@... writes:
> I live in Cicero, IL. Craziest town in Chicagoland. Gangsta city, andWell, this one night we were in Cicero,
> we're
> talking mobster gangster-old school.
the three of us, sittin' up
in a hotel room, boozin' and
havin' a few laughs and
we ran out of ice.
So I went out to get some.
I come back, open the door
and there's Veronica and
Charlie doing Number Seventeen-
the spread eagle.
LOL Sorry, I've been watching too much Chicago lately. I immediately thought
about the Cell Block Tango.
Amy Kagey
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=1684902">Free shipping on </A><A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=1684902">Usborne Books</A> !
Join Usborne for only $29.95 in Sept!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
AimeeL73@... wrote:
Constitution?
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Nest4Robin@... writes:Suerly a curfew for a particular group in society is against the
>
>
>> The thing that gets me is our society expects children to be
>>locked up between certain hours of the day and if kids are out
>>during that time frame, people get up in arms about it. I don't
>>want to feel like I have to lock my kids up during school hours, but
>>I don't like dealing with situations like what happened today either.
>>
>>
>
>
>Unfortunately, we have a curfew here in town. No kids out during school
>hours, without a parent. He can't go out and play by himself and I've explained to
>him why. It's tough, it's shitty, I can't stand it, he doesn't like it much
>either, but it's what we gotta do to stay under "the man's" radar. lol .
>
>He does go play in the back, but he knows why he shouldn't wander out the
>gate. I've also explained that its safer for him to be outside with a group of
>his friends rather than playing out front by himself, ie, his friends will come
>tell me if he gets hurt or if something is wrong.
>
>
>~Aimee
>
>
>
>
Constitution?
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
amycats2@... writes:
It's not like that anymore.....much!
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> LOL Sorry, I've been watching too much Chicago lately. I immediatelyLOL I've GOT to see that movie! My hometown!! Thanks for the laugh!!
> thought
> about the Cell Block Tango.
>
It's not like that anymore.....much!
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
shyrley@... writes:
Yes, I agree with you, but others don't. Alex and I talk about agism all the
time, the rights that children do and don't have and why. It would be nigh
impossible to challenge this curfew in my town, but I have thought about it.
Most don't look at it that way, "Kids should be in school, right? What's the
problem then?" Argh.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Suerly a curfew for a particular group in society is against theOh, sweetie, dontcha know, kids aren't people? ((SARCASM))
> Constitution?
>
> Shyrley
Yes, I agree with you, but others don't. Alex and I talk about agism all the
time, the rights that children do and don't have and why. It would be nigh
impossible to challenge this curfew in my town, but I have thought about it.
Most don't look at it that way, "Kids should be in school, right? What's the
problem then?" Argh.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/24/03 12:02:28 PM, shyrley@... writes:
<< Suerly a curfew for a particular group in society is against the
Constitution? >>
Neither women nor children have full equal rights in the U.S.
I don't think there's any government in the world that gives children full
rights, but I could be wrong.
Sandra
<< Suerly a curfew for a particular group in society is against the
Constitution? >>
Neither women nor children have full equal rights in the U.S.
I don't think there's any government in the world that gives children full
rights, but I could be wrong.
Sandra
Vicki A. Dennis
Actually, in wild frontier Texas :-) it was the anti-loitering laws of the 70's that were not upheld and then morphed into juvenile curfew laws.........both night time and daytime. First in "adult" entertainment districts, then in specially defined communities, and finally city wide and county wide.
As for the adults who were ALSO targeted by the anti-loitering ordinances.......the concept is continuously tweaked. Either by having total nighttime curfews on "public" property or by more and more creative versions of "camping" or "sleeping in a public place" or "interfering with a business enterprise".
Is California still actually using the term "loitering". Do they include having proper identification and proof of a certain level of financial access among the defenses to prosecution?
vicki
As for the adults who were ALSO targeted by the anti-loitering ordinances.......the concept is continuously tweaked. Either by having total nighttime curfews on "public" property or by more and more creative versions of "camping" or "sleeping in a public place" or "interfering with a business enterprise".
Is California still actually using the term "loitering". Do they include having proper identification and proof of a certain level of financial access among the defenses to prosecution?
vicki
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Police Scare today
Aimee - where is it that you still have a daytime curfew?
They've been transformed into anti-loitering laws in most places,
because straight-out daytime curfews were not being upheld in courts.
-pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/24/03 12:55:58 PM, mamaxaos@... writes:
<< Do they include having proper identification and proof of a certain
level of financial access among the defenses to prosecution? >>
Even rich people can loiter.
I think you're talking about vagrancy laws, which had to do with having
enough money to get out of town, at least. <g>
Sandra
<< Do they include having proper identification and proof of a certain
level of financial access among the defenses to prosecution? >>
Even rich people can loiter.
I think you're talking about vagrancy laws, which had to do with having
enough money to get out of town, at least. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
It really doesn't matter if they are enrolled, they would still help you out.
Good Luck, I am sure all will be fine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good Luck, I am sure all will be fine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
SandraDodd@... wrote:
rights dunt we have?
Some European countries are working hard at full rights for kids, even
the UK. They all signed the Children's Rights Act. Arch works hard in
the UK challenging things like curfews for under 16's and various other
Big Brother tactics.
understand why children would need rights. Big Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Shyrley
>In a message dated 9/24/03 12:02:28 PM, shyrley@... writes:Really? I thought women had 'lip service' full rights in the US. What
>
><< Suerly a curfew for a particular group in society is against the
>Constitution? >>
>
>Neither women nor children have full equal rights in the U.S.
>
rights dunt we have?
Some European countries are working hard at full rights for kids, even
the UK. They all signed the Children's Rights Act. Arch works hard in
the UK challenging things like curfews for under 16's and various other
Big Brother tactics.
>Sigh. Mind you, people don't see what I'm going on about and can't
>I don't think there's any government in the world that gives children full
>rights, but I could be wrong.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>
understand why children would need rights. Big Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Shyrley
primalmother
Because if someone hassels me about unschooling, at least I would
have Clonlara to represent my boys. Only my girls would be
represented at this point.
--- In [email protected], TreeGoddess
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
have Clonlara to represent my boys. Only my girls would be
represented at this point.
--- In [email protected], TreeGoddess
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> primalmother wrote:the tutition for the boys, but maybe I was wrong about that now.
>
> >My girls are enrolled in Clonlara. I didn't see a need to pay
> >confused as
>
> Why would that have made any difference in this event? I'm
> to what you mean.
>
> TreeGoddess
[email protected]
Knowing Clonlara I think that they would still help if you talked to Pat.
Also I think they have a new family plan for enrollment. I onlly have one
child but at the conferance I heard them talking about it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also I think they have a new family plan for enrollment. I onlly have one
child but at the conferance I heard them talking about it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
primalmother
That's good to know.
--- In [email protected], TheFadels@a... wrote:
> It really doesn't matter if they are enrolled, they would still
help you out.
>
>
> Good Luck, I am sure all will be fine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]