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In a message dated 9/23/03 2:15:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> I think people are born randomly and they live in a random world where they
>
> try constantly to find patterns (because that's what people do) and
> sometimes
> they get all excited about a pattern or theory (about causation or death or
> life or afterlife) and they start making decisions based on their theory.
>

So does this mean everything is just luck of the draw from your POV? And
whether it is or isn't, is there a purpose for being here, that you see? What
about children, who have never heard of these
cosmic/religious/philosophical/belief theories, kids who talk about things that they just know and recognize? Have
you ever met a child like that, and if so, how did you react to them? Do you
automatically discount them and what they seem to believe they know if they
can't explain how or where it comes from? What benefits would a child get from
an adult who doesn't believe them, from your POV?

TIA
Rhonda


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In a message dated 9/23/03 4:31:08 PM, RJHill241@... writes:

<< So does this mean everything is just luck of the draw from your POV? >>

There's no draw.
There's just being born and living and dying, with all kinds of exciting
adventures in there if you're lucky and curious and active.

<< And whether it is or isn't, is there a purpose for being here, that you
see?>>

That's the question behind all human custom and religion and philosophy for
the past 6,000 to some-million years. While it's interesting to learn about
how beliefs have evolved through that time and why people believe things and how
beliefs change, to think they never figured it out but I have would be
presumptuous and goofy.

<< What about children, who have never heard of these
cosmic/religious/philosophical/belief theories, kids who talk about things
that they just know and recognize?>>

A lot of kid talk about things they think they know, but a kid talking about
something doesn't make it true.

<<Have you ever met a child like that, and if so, how did you react to
them?>>

"React" is usually a very quick moment of time.
"A child like that" could be lots of things, so since I don't know what you
mean and I'm not sure you do either, there's no sense asking for clarification
since it won't make it easier for anyone to unschool.

<< Do you automatically discount them and what they seem to believe they know
if they
can't explain how or where it comes from?>>

I don't automatically discount anyone or anything.

<<What benefits would a child get from an adult who doesn't believe them,
from your POV?>>

What is your question?
Do you believe everything every child says and do you think that's a benefit
to a child?

Are you edging up toople should do what's in front of them to do, and do it
as honestly and as well as they can while still being comfortable in their
lives and their families.

"Should" or what?

Or they won't be as good, honest or comfortable as they could have been
otherwise.

I think people have an inate idea about there being better and worse states,
and better and worse decisions. Good usually feels good to the agent and the
recipient. Bad causes negativity. Not all "good" and "bad" are cultural. If
they were, babies would have nothing to cry about until someone else had
taught them what to expect. Food is better than lack of food. Warmth is better
than freezing cold. Sleeping on sand or leaves is better than sleeping on rocks
or sticks. Stabbing your neighbor with a stick is generally worse than
sharing your food with him, and so on.

Sandra

JenV72

>
>>
> << What about children, who have never heard of these
> cosmic/religious/philosophical/belief theories, kids who talk
about things
> that they just know and recognize?>>


I know exaclty what you mean. Children have a sense on "knowing"
that we as adult have forgotten. I child's psychic abilities are
amazing, then we grow up and often these abilities are supressed.


>
> A lot of kid talk about things they think they know, but a kid
talking about
> something doesn't make it true.

> <<Have you ever met a child like that, and if so, how did you
react to
> them?>>
>
> "React" is usually a very quick moment of time.
> "A child like that" could be lots of things, so since I don't know
what you
> mean and I'm not sure you do either, there's no sense asking for
clarification
> since it won't make it easier for anyone to unschool.

This comment was just rude and wrong. Just because YOU don't
understand doesn't AT ALL mean the person who said it does not
understand his or herself. YOu made a similar statement to me:

> I didn't figure you knew what you were getting at, which is why I
inquired
> how far your idea about not knowing what people meant because we
couldn't see.......

I thought when you wrote "I didn't figure you knew what you were
getting at", that it was a type-o. Was I mistaken?

When you say "there's no sense asking for clarification
since it won't make it easier for anyone to unschool." that is a
passive aggressive remark. You are as much in this thread as anyone
else is. Your posts are not making it easier to unschool than
anyone elses. It was a comment could have been said to yourself,
but instead it was to take a quick bite at Rhonda.

-Jennifer V

pam sorooshian

>>
>
> This comment was just rude and wrong. Just because YOU don't
> understand doesn't AT ALL mean the person who said it does not
> understand his or herself. YOu made a similar statement to me:
>

List Posting Policies include the following:

7. It is not useful to inform the list that you believe someone else is
being rude or discourteous; please trust the rest of the list to
recognize
rudeness for themselves. Saying, "Jane was rude to me," just bogs down
the list. It is also a waste of everyone's time when participants
attempt to
correct or improve other list members' manners. It never works and
always
disrupts the list. Avoid statements such as: "Jane, here is my
suggestion of how you could write more nicely so people wouldn't think
you are being rude."

Fetteroll

on 9/23/03 5:44 PM, RJHill241@... at RJHill241@... wrote:

> So does this mean everything is just luck of the draw from your POV?

No, people make choices all the time.

In college I went to dinner promptly at 5:30 every day. One day for no
particular reason I was late and during that time a girl stopped by because
she needed a new room and my name was on a list of people without roommates.
(Mine had moved to a sorority.) I said sure and she moved in and we became
good friends. She introduced me to the frat she hung out at where her
boyfriend was. We hung out there regularly and a couple years later I met my
future husband at that frat.

Was my being late for dinner that day driven by cosmic powers so my husband
and I could meet a few years later?

Well, why wouldn't the cosmic powers have just brought my roommate to my
door earlier so they didn't have to delay me to dinner?

And if we'd missed each other and The Cosmic Powers wanted me to get
involved with the frat, wouldn't they send other event my way?

Frankly I think the foundations of cosmic forces crumble once you start
thinking them through.

There were choices and circumstances that brought us together at the right
time and future events happened because of it, but I think the conjunction
was all just chance. It's spooky that I was late to dinner the one day my
roommate and I could have hooked up. But, nonetheless, I don't believe there
were any cosmic powers directing it.

> And
> whether it is or isn't, is there a purpose for being here, that you see?

No predetermined purpose. Our purpose in life is what we choose it to be.

> What
> about children, who have never heard of these
> cosmic/religious/philosophical/belief theories, kids who talk about things
> that they just know and recognize? Have
> you ever met a child like that, and if so, how did you react to them?

I've never met a child like that.

I think 1000's of people have feelings about times, events, places and no
one pays any attention when they're wrong. Chances are that with that many
people guessing, someone's going to inadvertently guess something that makes
sense. And everyone will pay attention.

I think people have been conning others since the beginning of language.

I heard about this scam in college. A guy would write to a 1000 people and
tell half he predicted a certain stock would rise and tell the other half it
would fall. Of those half he sent the "right" prediction to, he split those
in half and sent half rise and half fall predictions on a different stock.
After 5 predictions he's got about 30 people convinced he can predict
stocks.

> Do you
> automatically discount them and what they seem to believe they know if they
> can't explain how or where it comes from?
> What benefits would a child get
> from
> an adult who doesn't believe them, from your POV?

My daughter is sometimes convinced that she's right on something she
remembers when I'm pretty sure she's wrong. Sometimes it's a good thing to
find out what really happened. Sometimes it makes no difference and it isn't
worth the knowledge of knowing she was wrong.

If a young child were telling me some "psychic" story about being some place
or experiencing something, I'd treat it seriously. I've heard some
interesting tales and I've nodded and accepted that they were presenting
what they felt were honest accounts. I haven't been in a situation where it
would be necessary to tell a young child I believed she was lying.

If a kid were older and had a firm grasp of reality, it would depend on the
circumstances and the child how I'd react to my disbelief. Psychic phenomena
is low on my believability scale so from my point of view the explanations
of someone telling a "psychic" tale would be that they were confused or
lying or teasing me.

Joyce

Robyn Coburn

<<And if we'd missed each other and The Cosmic Powers wanted me to get
involved with the frat, wouldn't they send other event my way?>>

Have you seen the charming movie "Serendipity" with Kate Beckinsale? The
efforts of The Cosmic Powers to get two people together as illustrated
in that film are Herculean!

Robyn Coburn



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