[email protected]

Our son has recently informed us that he does not want his high school
diploma or a GED. He would like it if we gave him one seeming he is home with us.

Being a year or so into unschooling, I'm a bit confused. A unschooler cannot
get an actual high school diploma without actually going to school right? I'm
aware that he can get his GED at a certain age according to the state we live
in. But can we actually give him a diploma ourselves? If so, how would this
hold him up if say a job wee to ask for one?


Thanks
Kim

Mary

From: <CabinOnTheLedge@...>


<< Our son has recently informed us that he does not want his high school
diploma or a GED. He would like it if we gave him one seeming he is home
with us.

Being a year or so into unschooling, I'm a bit confused. A unschooler
cannot
get an actual high school diploma without actually going to school right?
I'm
aware that he can get his GED at a certain age according to the state we
live
in. But can we actually give him a diploma ourselves? If so, how would this
hold him up if say a job wee to ask for one?>>


First of all I don't know of anyone who was ever asked to see their high
school diploma when going for a job. It may happen but I would think it's
not the norm. But why not give yourself a name. Something schooly or fun or
crazy or very family appropriate. The print up a diploma on the puter. Make
it as simple, fancy, extensive as your son wants. Why not??? Works for me
and it sounds like that would work well for you son too.

Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Fetteroll

on 9/22/03 9:23 PM, CabinOnTheLedge@... at CabinOnTheLedge@...
wrote:

> Being a year or so into unschooling, I'm a bit confused. A unschooler cannot
> get an actual high school diploma without actually going to school right?

All a diploma says is the school named says the person named did what the
school considered sufficient to pass their standards. They aren't issued by
the state. Diplomas are just the school giving a student a stamp of
approval.

Accredited schools, of course, have their standards set and watched over by
the government or some official group, so someone can check to see what the
diploma of an accredited school is supposed to mean, eg, 4 years of math.
But what "4 years of math" means is harder to quantify which is why
standardized tests are so popular. (At least in MA they were originally set
up to make sure the teachers were having the effect expected of them. *That*
didn't last long :-/)

But ultimately diplomas don't mean much at all. If you agree that your son
has done sufficient to graduate then you can issue him a diploma.

> But can we actually give him a diploma ourselves? If so, how would this
> hold him up if say a job wee to ask for one?

He can write in the name of your homeschool. Or he can write in
homeschooled. If he decides to take a course at a community college, he can
check off "some college" on applications. It's helpful to look at what a
company would like to see in an employee. They don't really care that
someone has a high school diploma so much as they care about someone having
what a diploma represents. A college may expect a certain body of knowledge
to build from. And a diploma represents that. But it isn't the only way to
get it. Companies that want a high school diploma are not really looking for
a high school diploma -- do they really care that someone stuck it out long
enough to sit through reading and hearing about the Battle of Waterloo ;-)
What they're trying to eliminate are the kids who dropped out of high school
because within that group are those who are substance abusers and people who
are chafing at 9-5 routines and people who chafe at assembly line work and
so on.

Joyce

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/23/2003 7:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:

> All a diploma says is the school named says the person named did what the
> school considered sufficient to pass their standards. They aren't issued by
> the state. Diplomas are just the school giving a student a stamp of
> approval.
>

Some States do issue the High School diplomas. In Virginia, you will get one
will the "official" seal of the Commonwealth. What is required for
graduation is mandated by the State. There are presently (unless they changed it in
the last year or two) three different diplomas one can work towards for
graduation.

There are online sources where you can order a High School diploma that looks
just like one that is issued at the schools, just doesn't have a State Seal
on it. Comes in a nice leather folder and all. Looks the same as the PS
version, you even get the small laminated versions to go along with it just like in
the Public Schools.

If you want something tangible to frame or keep as a keepsake you can just
order one up. They are like fifty or sixty dollars for the "deluxe" version
with the calligraphy and leather folder and miniatures. You could also make one
on the computer for much less money.

I know the community colleges in my area do not require transcripts nor a GED
to begin classes, so that is where my daughter plans on starting when she
turns 16 in the spring.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Holly Shaltz

Kim writes:

<<Our son has recently informed us that he does not want his high school
diploma or a GED.>>

My older son, Chris, had a 'diploma' from Clonlara. He wanted to join
the Army, and the Army wouldn't accept it. He joined anyway, at the end
of the quarter when the recruiters open up their requirements in order
to make their quotas.

My younger son, Jon, had no diploma--we didn't bother with Clonlara that
time--but he moved to Austin, TX at 18 and a couple months, got several
(over time) good jobs, started going to college, and bought a house
before he turned 21.

When you compare the average homeschooled teen to the average schooled
teen, you can see that most employers will be delighted to take the
former, without diploma, over the latter, regardless of 'documentation'
:)

Holly

pam sorooshian

On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 06:02 AM, Holly Shaltz wrote:

> My older son, Chris, had a 'diploma' from Clonlara. He wanted to join
> the Army, and the Army wouldn't accept it. He joined anyway, at the
> end
> of the quarter when the recruiters open up their requirements in order
> to make their quotas.

Just FYI - the military is now accepting homeschool diplomas. I believe
this is a trial period that looks likely to become permanent. See
NHEN's information on military families and homeschooling. www.NHEN.org
--- there is information on the website as well as in the legislative
forums on this topic.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/22/2003 8:25:38 PM Central Standard Time,
CabinOnTheLedge@... writes:


> If so, how would this
> hold him up if say a job wee to ask for one?
>

I hired people for a living prior to having my babies. I never, ever even
once asked to see a high school diploma. First I worked for an engineering
company, then a trucking company, so I had both blue and white collar experience.
I did verify college degrees by phone, though. Lots of folks stretch the
truth a bit on masters degrees, I've learned.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<First of all I don't know of anyone who was ever asked to see their high
school diploma when going for a job. It may happen but I would think it's not
the norm.>>


I know when I went for my first job they wanted that piece of paper saying I
graduated. I haven't worked since, I've always owned my own business so I
don't know how they do it today. Glad to hear it is not the norm now. <g>feeling
old



<<But why not give yourself a name. Something schooly or fun or crazy or very
family appropriate. The print up a diploma on the puter. Make it as simple,
fancy, extensive as your son wants. Why not??? Works for me and it sounds like
that would work well for you son too.>>



Thanks Mary! That sounds wonderful. Now I'll just have to come up with a name
for us.


Kim

[email protected]

Thanks Joyce for explaining that to us. Christopher is ready to have a party
here! He just does not want anything in his life that is schoolish. When the
time is right, that's what we'll do.

Off to think of names which has always been a hard thing for our family to do.

Kim


<<All a diploma says is the school named says the person named did what the
school considered sufficient to pass their standards. They aren't issued by
the state. Diplomas are just the school giving a student a stamp of
approval.>>


<<But ultimately diplomas don't mean much at all. If you agree that your son
has done sufficient to graduate then you can issue him a diploma.>>

[email protected]

<<When you compare the average homeschooled teen to the average schooled
teen, you can see that most employers will be delighted to take the
former, without diploma, over the latter, regardless of 'documentation' :)>>


Thanks Holly
It really helps us to see that even without a school diploma that kids can go
on and get good jobs and succeed.

Kim

[email protected]

<<Mind you, learning opportunities aside, games are fun and we all need fun
in our lives>>

Shyrley


Christopher has so much fun with them. We never really played video games but
now we all have a blast with them. He teaches US so much and I have seen him
doing math on a few of them. Learning but having fun. He has 4 game systems
and hand helds as well over 50 games, now he's looking into another one. I can't
keep up but it's a lot of fun. I'm just learning one and he is on to another!


Kim

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/23/03 5:53:47 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< A unschooler cannot
> get an actual high school diploma without actually going to school right? >>

Not a diploma from an accredited school.
But there are non-accredited private schools and always have been, so if you
make up a diploma it won't be any worse than one from a private school which
is not accredited. In my experience, many Christian schools are not accredited
because they refuse to fulfill state requirements. Still, they issue
diplomas.

The right answer to "Is this an accredited high school?" is "no."

In New Mexico (and other places, but maybe not all other places) the GED now
gets a diploma from the State. It's a high school diploma issued by the state
of New Mexico, and is as good (legally speking) as from an accredited high
school.

But my preference by far is the "some college" option, and writing
"homeschooled" on the high school line (of the hypothetical application form).

Sandra

Sandra

Norma

--- In [email protected], ejcrewe@a... wrote:
<>I hired people for a living prior to having my babies. I never,
ever even once asked to see a high school diploma. First I worked
for an engineering company, then a trucking company, so I had both
blue and white collar experience. I did verify college degrees by
phone, though. Lots of folks stretch the truth a bit on masters
degrees, I've learned.<>

Elizabeth:

I think it depends on the job. I was hired to do test-scoring this
past year (scoring state proficiency tests) and they had to see the
diploma or else I had to pay for full transcripts. That was because
their contracts with various states required degreed employees to
score those idiot tests. Go figure. But for many other jobs, of
course, no one is going to bother to check.

My daughter just applied for a job at the library, a very good job
for a 16-year-old with better than average pay and very flexible
hours, (plus a great learning environment and a chance to meet cute
guys who come to the library). They required references and they
actually phoned and checked with each one! And they also require a
drug test. Since she is home educated they did not require any
school references, however. But the head librarian made an
interesting comment to my daughter about homeschoolers; something to
the effect that they usually do not do as well on the qualifying test
as public schoolers.

I wonder how many homeschoolers have applied for jobs there? The
qualifying test, by the way, had to do with putting books in order as
they would be placed on the shelves under the Dewey Decimal System.
So the student has to know how to read the numbers and letters coded
on the books from the Dewey Decimal System. This is not rocket
science, but apparently quite a few home educators do not bother to
teach their kids how the DDS works and how books are to be found on
the shelves. Might be something to organize with a group of
homeschoolers at your local library.

For those teens who are college bound that diploma or GED really do
not matter anymore. The colleges that are homeschool friendly just
want a good detailed transcript. And they want details about the
activities in which the student has participated. That is way
important for homeschoolers. They may require an essay and some will
require test scores, but not all. They may also want letters of
recommendation. So it really pays to shop around. And there are
other ways to get college degrees these day that do not require ever
stepping foot in a college classroom, but still yield a solid fully
accredited 4-year college degree. Check out Brad Voeller's book,
Accelerated Distance Learning, and his Global Learning Strategies
website: http://www.globallearningstrategies.org/

After reading his book I figured out that you could, theoretically at
least, get a fully accredited 4-year degree for under $700 by taking
three GRE tests at $130 a piece and earning credit for 5 other
courses through CLEP or portfolio presentation or military exams or
credit by examination. The total for this could be as low as $700
for the highly motivated self-directed learner. Amazine! And he has
so many great idea for different ways to do this that truly anyone
who wants a college degree should be able to get one. And these are
good degrees, not just papermills.

Norma
"We have found out...that we cannot trust some people who are
nonconformists...We will make conformists out of them...The
organization cannot trust the individual; the individual must trust
the organization." – Ray Kroc

Norma

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/23/03 6:55:50 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< Some States do issue the High School diplomas. In Virginia, you will get
one
will the "official" seal of the Commonwealth. >>

My High School diploma has the seal of the State of New Mexico right up top.
Glad you mentioned that. The photographic miniature given to all our
graduating class by the First National Bank of Rio Arriba happens to be lying on my
desk, with a pile of other old cards, so it was easy to check! <g>

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/23/03 2:40:40 PM, tessimal@... writes:

<< This is not rocket

science, but apparently quite a few home educators do not bother to

teach their kids how the DDS works and how books are to be found on

the shelves. >>

We studied that over and over and OVER in school.

It only took me about five minutes to learn it, yet they repeated it year
after year.

I bet it only took those unschoolers five minutes to learn it. <bwg>

Sandra