[email protected]

OK.. I just asked Anna..

"How does it make you feel when someone says they are proud of you"

She says.. "Good!" I say, "It makes you feel good?" She says. with big
eye roll and a snort.. "Uhh, no, Mom, it makes me feel awful, come on, what
kind of question is that anyway?" I said, "I was just checking.. lol, just
wondering" She said, "Well, of course, good, unless it is said sarcastically"


Like I said before, conveying pride, offering encouragement and praise, does
not have to contain the word "proud", it can be communicated in various ways..
verbally and even non verbally. But, again, I would not avoid the word
proud out of fear of being somehow misguided in my feelings.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

"I'm so proud of you," I think does convey an underlying attitude that
might be something unschoolers, in particular, are trying to avoid.

My father used to say he was proud of me, a lot. My mother just said
she loved me and, also, especially when I was an adult, that she
admired different things about me or things I did.

When my father said he was proud of me, it made me feel good. No doubt
about that. A whole lot like getting an "A" in school made me feel
good. BUT - the question is what else did it do. Were there further
impacts on my life that weren't so good, even though it made me feel
good? I'd say yes. I made major schooling and career decisions in order
to make sure my father would still be "proud" of me. MAJOR ones!!!
Instead of examining my own individual interests and passions and my
own desires for my future, I was extremely heavily influenced by what
would make my father proud of me.

When my mother said she admired me - she said she admired how hard I
worked, how persistent I was, what a conscientious mom I was, and so
on, those kinds of comments made me feel proud of myself, true, but
they made me want to "be myself" even more than before.

I really think "pride" has an ownership sense to it, at least as most
people use it. It conveys a feeling of "I'm basking in the reflected
glory." And so a sort of underlying message got conveyed along with the
pride - and that was that my behavior was better if it reflected well
on him. My mom's "I so admire that you breastfed your kids, even as
they got older," never felt like she was taking part of the ownership
of what I did. It seemed like something she'd say to anybody she
admired. She definitely gave ME full ownership of (and responsibility
for) my own behavior and didn't expect me to do something in order make
her proud.

Basing my behavior on trying to make other people proud of me -
including doing well in school, especially - sent my life off in
directions that were not truly where I wish, now looking back, I'd gone.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/03 11:44:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> I really think "pride" has an ownership sense to it, at least as most
> people use it. It conveys a feeling of "I'm basking in the reflected
> glory."

I haven't really thought about it. I guess I don't use that word. Can't
think of a time I have. My parents didn't either. I do remember after my mother
died, it was a few years after, having family come up to me and say "your
mother would be so proud of you and how your life are turning out." (or something
like that) it made me feel very good to think that she would have approved of
how I am living my life. Not that I need her approval but not having her
around that gave me a warm feeling to think about.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/03 9:44:38 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< I made major schooling and career decisions in order
to make sure my father would still be "proud" of me. MAJOR ones!!! >>

"Make me proud" is a heck of a parting instruction that a lot of kids get
when they go out for competitions or to school or whatever. It's a directive to
make your decisions based on what the parent wants.

It's pretty much the theme of one character's life on Dead Poet's Society.

I had a boyfriend who was in the predicament. He knew with every move he
made whether he was getting warm or cold on the "make me proud" directive his dad
had put on him.

He was living a small part of his dad's life.

Sandra

[email protected]

This gave me a chuckle by bringing to mind an alternate parting
instruction -- has anyone taken their daughters to see "Freaky Friday" yet, where
the mother and teen change bodies and lives?

Before the change, as the characters are being established, the
uptight psychologist mom (Jamie Lee Curtis) drops tormented teen (Lindsey Luhan) at
school and mortifies her by calling out the car window, "Make good choices!"

SandraDodd@... writes:


> "Make me proud" is a heck of a parting instruction that a lot of kids get
> when they go out for competitions or to school or whatever. It's a
> directive to
> make your decisions based on what the parent wants.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/03 1:55:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> "Make me proud" is a heck of a parting instruction that a lot of kids get
> when they go out for competitions or to school or whatever. It's a
> directive to
> make your decisions based on what the parent wants.
>

Yes, and "make me proud" is a helluva lot different than saying " I am proud
of you" I would never tell anyone to make me proud. That is the misguided
pride I spoke of earlier. There IS a difference.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> Before the change, as the characters are being established, the
> uptight psychologist mom (Jamie Lee Curtis) drops tormented teen (Lindsey
Luhan) at
> school and mortifies her by calling out the car window, "Make good
choices!"

Busted! I said that to Lars the other day, in front of an older friend of
his.
Aside from the fact that it was said in public (embarrassment) I always
thought of this as affirming the parent's belief in the child or teen's
ability *to* make good choices. But I guess that would only be true if the
parent really does believe in the child's ability to do so, which I do. I
always thought it was a lot better than, "Behave yourself" or, "Stay out of
trouble".

So what *do* some of you say to your teens when they're heading off to do
something where they might be tempted to make not-so-good choices?
Tia
leschke@...

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Mary

From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>

<< So what *do* some of you say to your teens when they're heading off to do
something where they might be tempted to make not-so-good choices?>>



I have talked about making good choices, or I should say the best choice at
the time with my kids. Never yell that out to them <BG> but we talk about
it.

If there is a situation I may know about ahead of time, like my kids being
around someone they have had trouble with before, we talk before we get
there about what to do if such and such will happen. Talk about being
respectful and so on. I'm always right there with them though anyway. When
they 2 middle kids off without me, that's only at sports camp. I have never
had a hard time with anything happening there. The coaches are extremely
aware of kids respecting each other and there are little reminders all day
about that and also encouraging one another too. So when I send them off at
the park, I always just say have fun. That's what I want them to do and I'm
very comfortable in knowing they are well looked after.

When Tara goes out, I always call out to her to *be careful*, then I love
you. We have talked about what my *be careful* means, so she knows all that
it entails. Mostly if she's driving, it means to be aware of what's going on
around her. Don't be playing with the radio and gabbing on her phone while
driving. Watch if she's being followed home and watch if she's out alone
walking to her car. Don't stay or go where trouble is. Always call if she
needs help in any way. So my little *be careful* is loaded and it's just a
reminder to her. I always tell her to have fun too. Sometimes I'll say to
her, "don't do anything I wouldn't do" which she responds with, "well that
just gives me unlimited choices doesn't it?!"

Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/03 1:34:10 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< So what *do* some of you say to your teens when they're heading off to do

something where they might be tempted to make not-so-good choices? >>

Marty and Keith just pulled in after being gone two days, camping.

Kirby is not back yet from a weekend in Denver. There is one adult couple
I've known longer than I've known Kirby that I can get some feedback from, but I
just said "I hope everything goes well! Have fun!"

For Marty, I thought of several things and rejected them, and ended up saying
"Have a good time." But I told Keith-the-Dad (where Marty couldn't hear
me), "Take care of my baby who's too big to need me anymore." Keith said, "Oh,
he needs you more ways than he knows" and kissed me.

If I'd told any of them "be good" or "be careful," it wouldn't have been as
good for any of us.

Today Holly was walking with a younger friend of hers along a crowded
two-lane rural road in a little tourist town FULL of cars parked, cars driving, and
at one point we separated so I could go get the van and meet them up at the
other end of town. I wanted to say nothing, but it seemed wrong so I said
"PLEASE watch for cars." It sounded lame, but one wasn't my child, so it seemed the
magic mom-ju-ju that was appropriate for abandoning someone else's child to
unnatural elements in distracting circumstances.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> Marty and Keith just pulled in after being gone two days, camping.
>
> Kirby is not back yet from a weekend in Denver. There is one adult couple
> I've known longer than I've known Kirby that I can get some feedback from,
but I
> just said "I hope everything goes well! Have fun!"

That's what I usually say. When I did say the thing about making good
choices, he was off with a young man I had never met until then, probably 18
or 19, so 4 or 5 years older. I did ask the bike shop owner, who knows all
the kids who ride, about him and another young man about the same age. His
answer reassured me, but still they were going overnight, extreme biking at
a ski mountain 3 or 4 hours drive away. I guess in that situation, "Be
careful" wouldn't be out of line.

The other situation is spending time with one friend of his who really does
tend to make bad choices, often. Funny, I just realized that it was *his*
mother I first heard say that. Interesting. I'll be thinking about that
one.
Tia
leschke@...

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Olga

Wow Pam,

I never saw it from that perspective! When you talked about your
father, I could totally relate! I did not get so much the proud,
but comments like "You're the smart one, you take after me." or
comments related to looking attractive. To this day I still have
major issues with those things. I make an effort to watch the way
in which I compliment my son. It is so natural to tell him how
handsome he is but I try instead to tell him I think he is smart or
funny or kind. My Dad made me feel like if I was not attractive or
had gained weight than I was not lovable. I would never want to
pass that on to my kids. I had not analyzed the "proud" comments
and I do say those quite a bit. I will have to change that.

Thanks
Olga :)

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> "I'm so proud of you," I think does convey an underlying attitude
that
> might be something unschoolers, in particular, are trying to avoid.
>
> My father used to say he was proud of me, a lot. My mother just
said
> she loved me and, also, especially when I was an adult, that she
> admired different things about me or things I did.
>
> When my father said he was proud of me, it made me feel good. No
doubt
> about that. A whole lot like getting an "A" in school made me feel
> good. BUT - the question is what else did it do. Were there
further
> impacts on my life that weren't so good, even though it made me
feel
> good? I'd say yes. I made major schooling and career decisions in
order
> to make sure my father would still be "proud" of me. MAJOR ones!!!
> Instead of examining my own individual interests and passions and
my
> own desires for my future, I was extremely heavily influenced by
what
> would make my father proud of me.
>
> When my mother said she admired me - she said she admired how hard
I
> worked, how persistent I was, what a conscientious mom I was, and
so
> on, those kinds of comments made me feel proud of myself, true,
but
> they made me want to "be myself" even more than before.
>
> I really think "pride" has an ownership sense to it, at least as
most
> people use it. It conveys a feeling of "I'm basking in the
reflected
> glory." And so a sort of underlying message got conveyed along
with the
> pride - and that was that my behavior was better if it reflected
well
> on him. My mom's "I so admire that you breastfed your kids, even
as
> they got older," never felt like she was taking part of the
ownership
> of what I did. It seemed like something she'd say to anybody she
> admired. She definitely gave ME full ownership of (and
responsibility
> for) my own behavior and didn't expect me to do something in order
make
> her proud.
>
> Basing my behavior on trying to make other people proud of me -
> including doing well in school, especially - sent my life off in
> directions that were not truly where I wish, now looking back, I'd
gone.
>
> -pam