Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Seemingly Off Topic/ starting to read
Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
**Suddenly ALL the pieces fit! It's so cool! And we haven't read in WEEKS! Busy
with the conference, all summer in the pool, new video games, travelling here
and there. We take this long hiatus from reading.....and he can read!
Had to share.
~Kelly, mom of a new reader!**
Isn't it amazing?? Seeing the pieces being put together. I love the fact that you guys have just been doing what you love and here comes the reading! A true testimony that unschooling works!
We've been seeing the signs in Kyra, dd (6), and she'll pause and say "hey! I read that?!?" Her words right now are "start" "play" "close" "exit", all things from the computer. Oh and of course, "Click, clack, and Moo". In certain books she likes to say the repeated words. Ya know like, "Sam I am, Green Eggs and Ham." All of those.
Exciting times!
Kelli~
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Jon and Rue Kream
>> Isn't it amazing?? Seeing the pieces being put together.**I love it. I read in bed before I go to sleep, and every night Rowan is
climbing in with me and reading over my shoulder. Whenever she finds a word
she can read she shows it to me. This week she's really into 'the' words -
there, them, then, etc. She's just taking off. Sometimes she asks me to
show her a word I think she can read and she's been able to read most of
them on her own. She likes to read books to me (and Joyce :0) ), using a
mixture of memorization and reading. She's having so much fun, and we're
having great conversations about spelling and books and reading, and how our
mouths work to make noises.
The best part, for me, is that she owns this. ~Rue
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/20/03 9:43:01 AM, skreams@... writes:
<< The best part, for me, is that she owns this. ~Rue >>
That's how I feel about reading, and using the potty, and choosing clothes,
and their rooms (usually, though sometimes I help do a makeover or
reorganization, and for a while I'm part-owner).
When I was very new to homeschooling a mom gushed "How wonderful! You'll be
your child's only teacher!"
That chilled me deeply for a couple of reasons, but one was that the mom
owned the child's everything (or hoped joyfully to do so).
And when a child has learned something, with or without help, HE has learned
it.
But when he's been taught something and the performed, he's just a trophy of
the teacher.
Sandra
<< The best part, for me, is that she owns this. ~Rue >>
That's how I feel about reading, and using the potty, and choosing clothes,
and their rooms (usually, though sometimes I help do a makeover or
reorganization, and for a while I'm part-owner).
When I was very new to homeschooling a mom gushed "How wonderful! You'll be
your child's only teacher!"
That chilled me deeply for a couple of reasons, but one was that the mom
owned the child's everything (or hoped joyfully to do so).
And when a child has learned something, with or without help, HE has learned
it.
But when he's been taught something and the performed, he's just a trophy of
the teacher.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
Somebody asked Rosie, yesterday, who taught her to read. I was there,
listening. She hemmed and hawed a little - then said, brightly, "My own
BRAIN taught me to read." As if that answered it. The other kid (one
of her girl scout friends) was questioning her about homeschooling, not
looking for THAT kind of answer at all...but Rosie couldn't figure out
any other way to answer the question. I helped out by stepping in and
saying, "She means she taught herself."
-pam
listening. She hemmed and hawed a little - then said, brightly, "My own
BRAIN taught me to read." As if that answered it. The other kid (one
of her girl scout friends) was questioning her about homeschooling, not
looking for THAT kind of answer at all...but Rosie couldn't figure out
any other way to answer the question. I helped out by stepping in and
saying, "She means she taught herself."
-pam
On Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 11:31 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> << The best part, for me, is that she owns this. ~Rue >>
Jon and Rue Kream
>>But when he's been taught something and the performed, he's just a trophyof
the teacher.
**Jon's mother came over this morning. She gave Rowan a book, and saw Rowan
read the cover to me. She gushed on and on, "I'm so proud of you." and I
kept thinking, why do *you* feel proud? What Rowan accomplished has
nothing to do with you. She's not something we're creating so we can all
take credit for each new piece that gets put together.
I'm sure she's never put an ounce of thought into that expression (or much
else, I'm afraid <G>), but every time it came out of her mouth I winced.
Rowan put the book down til she left. ~Rue
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/20/03 4:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
skreams@... writes:
To me, it just sounds like she is proud of Rowan for what Rowan has
accomplished. She did not say " I am so proud that I taught her to read" Or that she
is proud of herself for anything.
I feel pride for my children when they succeed in something, when they master
something, when they create something. I do not feel proud of myself for
"getting them there", but I feel proud that my kids have done something all on
thier own. I feel proud of myself in the same regards. Now the misplaced
pride I can understand that bugging someone. The "look at my kid - see what I
did!" routine. There are parents that take credit for everything thier kids
are.. But they rarely want to take credit for anything that thier kids are not.
( unless it is a "positive not')
Teresa
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skreams@... writes:
> Jon's mother came over this morning. She gave Rowan a book, and saw RowanI think maybe it is in the way you are interpretting what your mil is saying.
> read the cover to me. She gushed on and on, "I'm so proud of you." and I
> kept thinking, why do *you* feel proud? What Rowan accomplished has
> nothing to do with you.
To me, it just sounds like she is proud of Rowan for what Rowan has
accomplished. She did not say " I am so proud that I taught her to read" Or that she
is proud of herself for anything.
I feel pride for my children when they succeed in something, when they master
something, when they create something. I do not feel proud of myself for
"getting them there", but I feel proud that my kids have done something all on
thier own. I feel proud of myself in the same regards. Now the misplaced
pride I can understand that bugging someone. The "look at my kid - see what I
did!" routine. There are parents that take credit for everything thier kids
are.. But they rarely want to take credit for anything that thier kids are not.
( unless it is a "positive not')
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gothmom527
i read this over a few times trying to figure out exactly what is so
offensive about someone having pride in your child. i just can't find
anything untoward in that statement at all.
recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyone
attempting to take credit for them.
kimberleigh
offensive about someone having pride in your child. i just can't find
anything untoward in that statement at all.
recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyone
attempting to take credit for them.
kimberleigh
>saw Rowan
> **Jon's mother came over this morning. She gave Rowan a book, and
> read the cover to me. She gushed on and on, "I'm so proud of you."and I
> kept thinking, why do *you* feel proud? What Rowan accomplished hascan all
> nothing to do with you. She's not something we're creating so we
> take credit for each new piece that gets put together.(or much
>
> I'm sure she's never put an ounce of thought into that expression
> else, I'm afraid <G>), but every time it came out of her mouth I winced.
> Rowan put the book down til she left. ~Rue
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/21/2003 1:05:28 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
gothmom527@... writes:
-=-i read this over a few times trying to figure out exactly what is so
offensive about someone having pride in your child. i just can't find
anything untoward in that statement at all.
recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyone
attempting to take credit for them.-=-
If someone here wrote "Kimberleigh!! I'm really proud of you for writing
that," wouldn't it seem at the very least condescending?
This is what the storyreminded me of: another story.
There was a time five or six years ago when a really glorious batch of SCA
squires and apprentices were hanging out with me regularly. My husband was
working in Minnesota, and his two squires were over talking to me regularly. Our
closest SCA friend was mostly inactive then, but had a hot squire, also
hanging out with me.
We went out of town to a big feast in Socorro and stayed in a motel suite.
They ranged in age from 22 to 36, and there were six of them, with me being the
only one of any SCA rank in the group.
At the feast, our table was sparkly, intensely period, beautifully set,
happy, and then at one point it was EMPTY. Each of them was off doing something
different, something useful, and I was the only one in the group who knew they
were all out and about, and what they were doing.
As we reviewed the evening and people went to sleep happy, I was in the room
with the last two awake. I said I had the urge to say "I'm proud of you" but
it seems an awful thing to say. We discussed my reservations about saying it,
and what alternative ways to express it could be, so because of that
discussion, and because of my thoughts concerning my kids' accomplishments (because
they were 11, 8 and 6 or so in those days) I've considered this quite a bit
If I say to grown men "I'm proud of you," it seems wrong. It seems like
"Good dog!" Or it seems like "Great, thanks for making me look good."
Though I had a strong emotion, "proud of you" has the implication of
ownership. Either ownership of the person or of the performance.
So although after discussion they decided they didn't mind me saying I was
proud of them, I was still uncomfortable. One outranks me now (the youngest is
a Duke now, and a knight). The other was then a law student but is now about
to become a special assistant prosecutor or some such, remarkably early for
an assistant district attorney.
When one of my kids does something that causes that swelling-up feeling in
me, I try to paraphrase "I'm proud of you" in away that I would't find saying
to an adult friend. I use these things instead:
That was pretty impressive!
I think they were lucky to have you there.
I'm glad to know you.
Even if I weren't your mom I'd still really like to know you.
I wish I'd had friends like you when I was your age.
Doesn't it feel good when things turn out that well?
(I note from the list that the things I've been proud of lately have involved
social responsibility.)
I think it makes a difference in the relationship between the parent and
child for the parent to acknowledge that the child is a separate person with his
own powers of accomplishment. Admiring someone from a little distance is a
different thing from being proud of them, and though I'm not finding it easy to
describe in words, it's clear in my heart.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gothmom527@... writes:
-=-i read this over a few times trying to figure out exactly what is so
offensive about someone having pride in your child. i just can't find
anything untoward in that statement at all.
recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyone
attempting to take credit for them.-=-
If someone here wrote "Kimberleigh!! I'm really proud of you for writing
that," wouldn't it seem at the very least condescending?
This is what the storyreminded me of: another story.
There was a time five or six years ago when a really glorious batch of SCA
squires and apprentices were hanging out with me regularly. My husband was
working in Minnesota, and his two squires were over talking to me regularly. Our
closest SCA friend was mostly inactive then, but had a hot squire, also
hanging out with me.
We went out of town to a big feast in Socorro and stayed in a motel suite.
They ranged in age from 22 to 36, and there were six of them, with me being the
only one of any SCA rank in the group.
At the feast, our table was sparkly, intensely period, beautifully set,
happy, and then at one point it was EMPTY. Each of them was off doing something
different, something useful, and I was the only one in the group who knew they
were all out and about, and what they were doing.
As we reviewed the evening and people went to sleep happy, I was in the room
with the last two awake. I said I had the urge to say "I'm proud of you" but
it seems an awful thing to say. We discussed my reservations about saying it,
and what alternative ways to express it could be, so because of that
discussion, and because of my thoughts concerning my kids' accomplishments (because
they were 11, 8 and 6 or so in those days) I've considered this quite a bit
If I say to grown men "I'm proud of you," it seems wrong. It seems like
"Good dog!" Or it seems like "Great, thanks for making me look good."
Though I had a strong emotion, "proud of you" has the implication of
ownership. Either ownership of the person or of the performance.
So although after discussion they decided they didn't mind me saying I was
proud of them, I was still uncomfortable. One outranks me now (the youngest is
a Duke now, and a knight). The other was then a law student but is now about
to become a special assistant prosecutor or some such, remarkably early for
an assistant district attorney.
When one of my kids does something that causes that swelling-up feeling in
me, I try to paraphrase "I'm proud of you" in away that I would't find saying
to an adult friend. I use these things instead:
That was pretty impressive!
I think they were lucky to have you there.
I'm glad to know you.
Even if I weren't your mom I'd still really like to know you.
I wish I'd had friends like you when I was your age.
Doesn't it feel good when things turn out that well?
(I note from the list that the things I've been proud of lately have involved
social responsibility.)
I think it makes a difference in the relationship between the parent and
child for the parent to acknowledge that the child is a separate person with his
own powers of accomplishment. Admiring someone from a little distance is a
different thing from being proud of them, and though I'm not finding it easy to
describe in words, it's clear in my heart.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon and Rue Kream
>>recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyoneattempting to take credit for them.
**I can see how it looks like I thought that she was taking credit based on
how I put it. That's not what I meant. I'll explain what I did mean, but
maybe this is just one of those things that only bugs me :0).
Rowan's really enjoying learning to read. I share her excitement, and I'm
happy that she's happy. If I were to tell her I was so proud of her for
learning to read, I would feel that I was taking away some of her ownership
of the accomplishment. It's not about me.
This afternoon I talked to my four year old niece on the phone. She wanted
to talk to me so that I could hear her snapping her fingers. She told me
she'd been working on it for daaaaays. We talked about whether it was hard,
and how she figured it out, and why she wanted to do it, and whether it was
as fun as she thought it would be, and what her finger snapping plans were
for the evening. She was really wound up about it and I loved to hear her
so excited. I was glad that she wanted to share her excitement with me,
because I love her to bits :0). I didn't tell her I was proud. We were
talking about her, not me.
I'm having a hard time articulating what I mean (maybe because it's 3:30 am
and I haven't slept more than a couple of hours in days!), so if this
doesn't make sense I can try again tomorrow <G>. And if we just disagree,
that's ok too. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/21/03 3:35:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
told my Dad that I am proud of him. Many MANY time I have conveyed pride
without using the word "proud", like the examples you gave. But, to me, the word
"proud" is not condescending, it is all a matter of tone and circumstance. I
do have some ownership of the people I love. They belong to me, not
exclusively, like a peice of property, but in my heart, they are "mine" My
children, my parents, my friends.. I love them, and feeling pride in them, to me, is
not a bad thing.
Teresa
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SandraDodd@... writes:
> If I say to grown men "I'm proud of you," it seems wrong. It seems likeI still disagree. I have told my husband that I am proud of him. I have
> "Good dog!" Or it seems like "Great, thanks for making me look good."
told my Dad that I am proud of him. Many MANY time I have conveyed pride
without using the word "proud", like the examples you gave. But, to me, the word
"proud" is not condescending, it is all a matter of tone and circumstance. I
do have some ownership of the people I love. They belong to me, not
exclusively, like a peice of property, but in my heart, they are "mine" My
children, my parents, my friends.. I love them, and feeling pride in them, to me, is
not a bad thing.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
glad2bmadly
Pride is a feeling that bubbles up when one has a feeling of accomplishment. To say you are proud of someone else's accomplishment implies that you had something to do with it. I think this is part of the authoritarian stance most parents have taken. We have grown to take it for granted without thinking about what it means.
It is one of those things that really bug me too. A few nights ago my MIL hugged my two boys in her arms while saying "I am soo proud of these boys." She says it all the time, about everything they do. They usually roll their eyes or run away.
I agree that saying "I'm proud of you " is taking ownership of that person's actions. It's patronizing, as I think Sandra said. When Gillen did well in a soccer game I said, "How did it feel to play so well? I am so impressed by how well you play." Or I'll say, "Do you feel proud of yourself?" about something he does but that sounds kind of funny to me when I say it. I guess it is my way of NOT saying that I am proud of them.
Madeline
Jon and Rue Kream <skreams@...> wrote:
**I can see how it looks like I thought that she was taking credit based on
how I put it. That's not what I meant. I'll explain what I did mean, but
maybe this is just one of those things that only bugs me :0).
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It is one of those things that really bug me too. A few nights ago my MIL hugged my two boys in her arms while saying "I am soo proud of these boys." She says it all the time, about everything they do. They usually roll their eyes or run away.
I agree that saying "I'm proud of you " is taking ownership of that person's actions. It's patronizing, as I think Sandra said. When Gillen did well in a soccer game I said, "How did it feel to play so well? I am so impressed by how well you play." Or I'll say, "Do you feel proud of yourself?" about something he does but that sounds kind of funny to me when I say it. I guess it is my way of NOT saying that I am proud of them.
Madeline
Jon and Rue Kream <skreams@...> wrote:
>>recognition of your childs accomplishments is not the same as anyoneattempting to take credit for them.
**I can see how it looks like I thought that she was taking credit based on
how I put it. That's not what I meant. I'll explain what I did mean, but
maybe this is just one of those things that only bugs me :0).
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"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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In a message dated 9/21/03 10:25:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
TeresaBnNC@... writes:
I still disagree. I have told my husband that I am proud of him. I have
told my Dad that I am proud of him. Many MANY time I have conveyed pride
without using the word "proud", like the examples you gave. But, to me, the
word
"proud" is not condescending, it is all a matter of tone and circumstance. I
do have some ownership of the people I love. They belong to me, not
exclusively, like a peice of property, but in my heart, they are "mine"
My
children, my parents, my friends.. I love them, and feeling pride in them, to
me, is
not a bad thing.
Teresa
#######################################
I agree with you Teresa. I too tell my kids, husband and others that I am
proud of them. I often tell Moly, Jack, and Darin that I am proud of them for no
particular reason either. I will give a hug and tell the hug-e that I love
them and am proud of them. Yesterday I gave Moly a big hug, told her I love her
and said how happy and proud I am that she is my beautiful daughter. I don't
think I *take* pride in her, I just feel pride in her. I guess I never looked at
pride as ownership. I'm just happy that my family is happy, healthy,
loving... it all makes me feel pridefull. Maybe I am equating pride with happiness?
Definitely something to think about.
~Nancy
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered
whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.
Douglas Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TeresaBnNC@... writes:
I still disagree. I have told my husband that I am proud of him. I have
told my Dad that I am proud of him. Many MANY time I have conveyed pride
without using the word "proud", like the examples you gave. But, to me, the
word
"proud" is not condescending, it is all a matter of tone and circumstance. I
do have some ownership of the people I love. They belong to me, not
exclusively, like a peice of property, but in my heart, they are "mine"
My
children, my parents, my friends.. I love them, and feeling pride in them, to
me, is
not a bad thing.
Teresa
#######################################
I agree with you Teresa. I too tell my kids, husband and others that I am
proud of them. I often tell Moly, Jack, and Darin that I am proud of them for no
particular reason either. I will give a hug and tell the hug-e that I love
them and am proud of them. Yesterday I gave Moly a big hug, told her I love her
and said how happy and proud I am that she is my beautiful daughter. I don't
think I *take* pride in her, I just feel pride in her. I guess I never looked at
pride as ownership. I'm just happy that my family is happy, healthy,
loving... it all makes me feel pridefull. Maybe I am equating pride with happiness?
Definitely something to think about.
~Nancy
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered
whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.
Douglas Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/21/03 2:41:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dnowens@...
writes:
emotional surge that is physical, like a blanket of warmth and bursting of seams.
I often get teary when I feel deep pride in something. I looked up the
definition of pride. The following entry is the one that exactly describes my
connotation of pride. That definiton does seem to also fit "happiness" There
were other, more negative definitions, and perhaps those of the ones that others
connote with "pride"
Pride
Main Entry: 1pride
Pronunciation: 'prId
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English pryde, from prud proud -- more at
PROUD
c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Maybe I am equating pride with happiness?. When I feel pride, I feel like my heart is swelling up. I feel an
>
> Definitely something to think about.
>
> ~Nancy
>
emotional surge that is physical, like a blanket of warmth and bursting of seams.
I often get teary when I feel deep pride in something. I looked up the
definition of pride. The following entry is the one that exactly describes my
connotation of pride. That definiton does seem to also fit "happiness" There
were other, more negative definitions, and perhaps those of the ones that others
connote with "pride"
Pride
Main Entry: 1pride
Pronunciation: 'prId
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English pryde, from prud proud -- more at
PROUD
c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 11:40 AM, Dnowens@... wrote:
grandmother did it too. All I can say is that I was a kid who wanted
to please them and got in the habit of thinking of what would make them
proud of me. BOTH of them came to realize this as they got older and
both told me, separately, "You know I'll love you no matter what you
decide and you don't have to feel like you should be perfect all the
time or do what you think I'd want," stuff like that. As much as I
loved them and they were both wonderful in many ways - that one thing
kept a bit of distance between us.
I'm aware of this - but I've done some of the same stuff anyway. As
conscious as we may think we are, we STILL will look back and realize
we did things we didn't intend - it is extraordinary difficult to break
out of parenting our children in ways we were parented, when we get
down to the more subtle aspects.
My mom was very very "aware" of the influence of her own attitude and
words on her kids' sense of self, for want of a better expression. For
example, she didn't say things like, "That is good," in response to our
artistic attempts - singing or painting or whatever, because she didn't
want to give us the underlying message that SHE was the arbiter of what
was good and what was not. She'd ask questions, show lots of interest,
admire various aspects of what we'd done, say that she appreciated us
sharing it, that she'd enjoyed it, etc., but not tell us it was great,
wonderful, good, etc.
Lots of parents think that praise is so important. But I really don't
think it is - I think it is a double-edged sword, in fact. And if we
have a habit of saying, "I'm proud of you," that might, indeed, be
something worth spending some time observing and pondering - asking
ourselves whether our kids might be picking up an unintended message in
that.
On the other hand, it is important to let our spouses and kids and
other relatives know we appreciate and admire them, and I think that's
what people sometimes use, "I'm proud of you," to mean.
I looked up "proud" and the first thing it says is:
Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or
relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth.
So - again, might well be worth reconsidering whether we want to use
that term - we don't want our kids to think OUR self-worth depends on
them.
Changing terminology can also be really sweet and powerful - much more
meaningful than a common phrase. A couple of days ago, Sandra told me
to tell my 16 yo daughter "Happy Birthday and I'm really glad I know
you." Roxana got tears in her eyes and said, "Tell her I'm really glad
I know her too."
(So - Sandra, consider yourself told <G>.)
I wanted to say one more thing about parents praise and especially,
"I'm proud of you." Its such a general statement - and every kid has
feelings and even has done things that they think their parents
wouldn't be proud of, if they knew. So when a parent says, "I'm proud
of you," some kids (great kids whose parents would be surprised to know
they feel this way) will say to themselves, "You wouldn't be so proud
if you knew what I sometimes think or do." That is not the effect the
parent thinks their praise is having.
-pam
> I just feel pride in her. I guess I never looked atI have no idea what my dad REALLY was thinking, feeling, meaning. My
> pride as ownership. I'm just happy that my family is happy, healthy,
> loving... it all makes me feel pridefull. Maybe I am equating pride
> with happiness?
>
> Definitely something to think about.
>
grandmother did it too. All I can say is that I was a kid who wanted
to please them and got in the habit of thinking of what would make them
proud of me. BOTH of them came to realize this as they got older and
both told me, separately, "You know I'll love you no matter what you
decide and you don't have to feel like you should be perfect all the
time or do what you think I'd want," stuff like that. As much as I
loved them and they were both wonderful in many ways - that one thing
kept a bit of distance between us.
I'm aware of this - but I've done some of the same stuff anyway. As
conscious as we may think we are, we STILL will look back and realize
we did things we didn't intend - it is extraordinary difficult to break
out of parenting our children in ways we were parented, when we get
down to the more subtle aspects.
My mom was very very "aware" of the influence of her own attitude and
words on her kids' sense of self, for want of a better expression. For
example, she didn't say things like, "That is good," in response to our
artistic attempts - singing or painting or whatever, because she didn't
want to give us the underlying message that SHE was the arbiter of what
was good and what was not. She'd ask questions, show lots of interest,
admire various aspects of what we'd done, say that she appreciated us
sharing it, that she'd enjoyed it, etc., but not tell us it was great,
wonderful, good, etc.
Lots of parents think that praise is so important. But I really don't
think it is - I think it is a double-edged sword, in fact. And if we
have a habit of saying, "I'm proud of you," that might, indeed, be
something worth spending some time observing and pondering - asking
ourselves whether our kids might be picking up an unintended message in
that.
On the other hand, it is important to let our spouses and kids and
other relatives know we appreciate and admire them, and I think that's
what people sometimes use, "I'm proud of you," to mean.
I looked up "proud" and the first thing it says is:
Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or
relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth.
So - again, might well be worth reconsidering whether we want to use
that term - we don't want our kids to think OUR self-worth depends on
them.
Changing terminology can also be really sweet and powerful - much more
meaningful than a common phrase. A couple of days ago, Sandra told me
to tell my 16 yo daughter "Happy Birthday and I'm really glad I know
you." Roxana got tears in her eyes and said, "Tell her I'm really glad
I know her too."
(So - Sandra, consider yourself told <G>.)
I wanted to say one more thing about parents praise and especially,
"I'm proud of you." Its such a general statement - and every kid has
feelings and even has done things that they think their parents
wouldn't be proud of, if they knew. So when a parent says, "I'm proud
of you," some kids (great kids whose parents would be surprised to know
they feel this way) will say to themselves, "You wouldn't be so proud
if you knew what I sometimes think or do." That is not the effect the
parent thinks their praise is having.
-pam
Mary
From: "pam sorooshian" <pamsoroosh@...>
<< I have no idea what my dad REALLY was thinking, feeling, meaning. My
grandmother did it too. All I can say is that I was a kid who wanted
to please them and got in the habit of thinking of what would make them
proud of me. BOTH of them came to realize this as they got older and
both told me, separately, "You know I'll love you no matter what you
decide and you don't have to feel like you should be perfect all the
time or do what you think I'd want," stuff like that. As much as I
loved them and they were both wonderful in many ways - that one thing
kept a bit of distance between us.>>
Well Sunday is my day to rest my brain but you ladies are making that very
hard to do. I let a few posts go by because I didn't want to take the time
to respond but this whole thread really has be thinking.
I can't say I ever remember either of my parents telling me they were proud
of me. Not saying they never did, just that I can't remember that happening.
Regarding my mom, I have always felt like nothing I ever did was enough to
please her. Not anything in school, work, relationships, family, nothing. In
fact, even now, I just get the feeling like nothing will ever be good
enough. She gives me cards on special occasions sometimes that say
otherwise, but her actions tell me I will never be the kind of daughter she
had hoped for. And deep down I'm thinking I am something for her to be proud
of, she just can't bring herself to let me know.
My dad, on the other hand, always made me feel loved and I felt like he was
extremely proud of me, even though I can't remember him saying so. He was
the only person I trusted wholeheartedly and I always knew I had his
unconditional love and acceptance. He was everything to me and even after
almost 19 years, he's missed dearly.
So I can't remember anything in particular either parent did or didn't do,
but it must have been the small day to day conversations, hugs, looks, etc
that made such a difference in how I responded to each. Point being, I don't
think saying I'm proud of you once in awhile, along with seeing how else we
parent is a wrong thing. I also think one can get that point across well
without ever using that word too.
I can't say I use that word much, but I have used it. And I have said, "I'm
proud of you" to me kids. I've also heard my kids when they were small walk
around and say "I'm so proud." In the way they used it, they were extremely
pleased with themselves about something they did. And when I have used it, I
have used it in that way also. Being very happy *for them* about something
they accomplished. The only time I can remember is when one of them have
handled a situation, like with a cranky sibling, in a manner that we had
talked about previously. So when I saw that they *got it* and used the tools
we spoke of to handle something, I did say I was proud of them for not
losing their temper or hitting and doing the best thing under the
circumstances. So when I have said I was proud, I pinpointed exactly what it
was that I was happy with. I'm also hoping, and I think I succeeded in
letting them know it wasn't anything I had ownership of, but all their own
doing. And thinking of the times they have used that word themselves, I'm
sure they understood how I meant it.
I looked up proud too. It says, "Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an
attribute or act by which one's status or sense of self is measured."
Thanks for all the thinking today, even though I didn't really want it. <BG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<< I have no idea what my dad REALLY was thinking, feeling, meaning. My
grandmother did it too. All I can say is that I was a kid who wanted
to please them and got in the habit of thinking of what would make them
proud of me. BOTH of them came to realize this as they got older and
both told me, separately, "You know I'll love you no matter what you
decide and you don't have to feel like you should be perfect all the
time or do what you think I'd want," stuff like that. As much as I
loved them and they were both wonderful in many ways - that one thing
kept a bit of distance between us.>>
Well Sunday is my day to rest my brain but you ladies are making that very
hard to do. I let a few posts go by because I didn't want to take the time
to respond but this whole thread really has be thinking.
I can't say I ever remember either of my parents telling me they were proud
of me. Not saying they never did, just that I can't remember that happening.
Regarding my mom, I have always felt like nothing I ever did was enough to
please her. Not anything in school, work, relationships, family, nothing. In
fact, even now, I just get the feeling like nothing will ever be good
enough. She gives me cards on special occasions sometimes that say
otherwise, but her actions tell me I will never be the kind of daughter she
had hoped for. And deep down I'm thinking I am something for her to be proud
of, she just can't bring herself to let me know.
My dad, on the other hand, always made me feel loved and I felt like he was
extremely proud of me, even though I can't remember him saying so. He was
the only person I trusted wholeheartedly and I always knew I had his
unconditional love and acceptance. He was everything to me and even after
almost 19 years, he's missed dearly.
So I can't remember anything in particular either parent did or didn't do,
but it must have been the small day to day conversations, hugs, looks, etc
that made such a difference in how I responded to each. Point being, I don't
think saying I'm proud of you once in awhile, along with seeing how else we
parent is a wrong thing. I also think one can get that point across well
without ever using that word too.
I can't say I use that word much, but I have used it. And I have said, "I'm
proud of you" to me kids. I've also heard my kids when they were small walk
around and say "I'm so proud." In the way they used it, they were extremely
pleased with themselves about something they did. And when I have used it, I
have used it in that way also. Being very happy *for them* about something
they accomplished. The only time I can remember is when one of them have
handled a situation, like with a cranky sibling, in a manner that we had
talked about previously. So when I saw that they *got it* and used the tools
we spoke of to handle something, I did say I was proud of them for not
losing their temper or hitting and doing the best thing under the
circumstances. So when I have said I was proud, I pinpointed exactly what it
was that I was happy with. I'm also hoping, and I think I succeeded in
letting them know it wasn't anything I had ownership of, but all their own
doing. And thinking of the times they have used that word themselves, I'm
sure they understood how I meant it.
I looked up proud too. It says, "Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an
attribute or act by which one's status or sense of self is measured."
Thanks for all the thinking today, even though I didn't really want it. <BG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com