[UnschoolingDiscussion] Was Re: More clarifying.Now question about immunizations
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I have a question about immunizations. Some of you may remember past
discussions about this, my stance has always been that it is a necessary thing because
that is what I was always taught; in nursing school and before that from
living in third world countries growing up. But, throughout the years, reading
here and elsewhere, I have now decided that it isn't something I want for my kids
anymore.
The other day, we got a postcard from the kids pediatrician reminding that
both are due for annual check ups and that Jack still hasn't had his last round
of childhood immunizations and that Moly is due for a booster. (I don't
remember which one and I'm not going to the fridge to look. <g>) This evening, Darin
noticed the card and asked me why Jack hasn't yet gotten his last shots and I
told him I didn't think I was going to have Jack go through with the rest. He
was kind of upset, but mostly wondering why. I explained my change of ideals
and we talked about this and other things like circumcision, and he said he
would think about it. He asked if, as we plan, we have another child, will this
child be circumcised if it is a boy and if I plan on going through the
immunization series and I said that no I did not plan on doing either. Darin thinks I
really should have Jack finish the series and get the booster for Moly. I was
hoping that those of you (especially those who vaccinated some of your kids
and not others) would share some more on why you chose not to and why you did
one child (or children) but not others. Thanks!
~Nancy
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow the talent to the
dark place where it leads.
Erica Jong
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
discussions about this, my stance has always been that it is a necessary thing because
that is what I was always taught; in nursing school and before that from
living in third world countries growing up. But, throughout the years, reading
here and elsewhere, I have now decided that it isn't something I want for my kids
anymore.
The other day, we got a postcard from the kids pediatrician reminding that
both are due for annual check ups and that Jack still hasn't had his last round
of childhood immunizations and that Moly is due for a booster. (I don't
remember which one and I'm not going to the fridge to look. <g>) This evening, Darin
noticed the card and asked me why Jack hasn't yet gotten his last shots and I
told him I didn't think I was going to have Jack go through with the rest. He
was kind of upset, but mostly wondering why. I explained my change of ideals
and we talked about this and other things like circumcision, and he said he
would think about it. He asked if, as we plan, we have another child, will this
child be circumcised if it is a boy and if I plan on going through the
immunization series and I said that no I did not plan on doing either. Darin thinks I
really should have Jack finish the series and get the booster for Moly. I was
hoping that those of you (especially those who vaccinated some of your kids
and not others) would share some more on why you chose not to and why you did
one child (or children) but not others. Thanks!
~Nancy
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow the talent to the
dark place where it leads.
Erica Jong
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Barbara Chase
Nancy,
My dd had tetanus when she was little, and I only gave her 1 booster (I
think 3 or 4 are recommended.) I had planned on not giving her any
vaccines, but we were in a medical situation that really does call for
tetanus. The reason I only gave her 1 booster is because while doing my
research I found that the extra boosters do not contribute to any extra
protection. She was adequately covered for the incident, and really didn't
need anymore.
In your case, I would say it really does depend on how old your kids are
and what vaccines you are talking about. There are some vaccines I may end
up doing for my dd if she doesn't get the illness by the time she is a
teen, but we will see. It's been awhile, so my mind doesn't really have
the facts... but I do remember when I was doing the research I decided that
if I had a boy I would most certainly consider the vaccine once he became a
teen/young adult. Of course, by then the child is helping to make the
decision.
Namaste
--bc--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My dd had tetanus when she was little, and I only gave her 1 booster (I
think 3 or 4 are recommended.) I had planned on not giving her any
vaccines, but we were in a medical situation that really does call for
tetanus. The reason I only gave her 1 booster is because while doing my
research I found that the extra boosters do not contribute to any extra
protection. She was adequately covered for the incident, and really didn't
need anymore.
In your case, I would say it really does depend on how old your kids are
and what vaccines you are talking about. There are some vaccines I may end
up doing for my dd if she doesn't get the illness by the time she is a
teen, but we will see. It's been awhile, so my mind doesn't really have
the facts... but I do remember when I was doing the research I decided that
if I had a boy I would most certainly consider the vaccine once he became a
teen/young adult. Of course, by then the child is helping to make the
decision.
Namaste
--bc--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Judie C. Rall
We started out with immunizing our firstborn son. He got the first
round of DPT at 2 months. His leg got hot, and a knot came there,
and he cried and screamed for hours. After getting the shot, a mole
started to grow at the place where the shot was given. When I asked
doctors about it later, they said it could have nothing to do with
the shot. But my baby did NOT have that mole there at birth, it only
came there after receiving the shot.
Then he got the MMR at 12 months. Shortly thereafter, he broke out
with red spots. I took him to the emergency room. They said it was
not unusual for some children to catch the disease from the shot. So
what was the point of the shot, then? The point was to keep them
from getting the disease, and he got it anyway?
At that time I read "DPT - A Shot in the Dark" and "Immunizations:
Theory vs. Reality" and learned the that whole theory behind why
immunizatons are supposed to work is a flawed theory. Studies have
shown that the shots do not confer the true immunity that they are
supposed to confer.
Also, I object to many of the additives put into the shots, which I
believe are harmful, such as aluminum, thimerisol (mercury) and
formaldehyde. Formaldehyde polimerizes living tissue. Also, some of
the growth mediums used to grow the cultures are just gross. "To
make a live vaccine, the live virus must be attenuated, or weakened
for human use. This is accomplished by serial passage - passing the
virus through animal tissue several times to reduce its potency. For
example, measles virus is passed through chick embryos, polio virus
through monkey kidneys, and the rubella virus through human diploid
cells - the dissected organs of an aborted fetus!" (quote from
Immunization: Theory vs. Reality). So since the virus passes
through animal tissue, it picks up animal RNA and DNA and this goes
into your child as well. Who knows whether some of the reactions
children have to the shot is simply a reaction to the foreign animal
genetic material placed into their blood.
Also, the body is strengthened after the true disease has run it's
course, and immunity has been conferred, but after taking the shots,
the body is not strengthened, it is compromised.
In nature, you are probably only going to catch one disease at a
time, maybe two. You immune system can handle this. When they give
these shots, they give three, four or five combinations at once. It
is very hard on the immune system to be bombarded with three to five
different diseases at the same time which it must fight off. In
nature, you would not catch that many diseases at once. So this is
an unnatural condition.
Plus, most of the childhood diseases which killed so many can now be
successfully treated with antibiotics, they are not the threat they
once were. The shots are more of a threat than the actual disease,
in my opinion.
This are just a few of the reason we chose not to take the shots.
Along with the fact that, we do not take kindly to being told that we
HAVE to do anything, no matter what it is.
Judie
round of DPT at 2 months. His leg got hot, and a knot came there,
and he cried and screamed for hours. After getting the shot, a mole
started to grow at the place where the shot was given. When I asked
doctors about it later, they said it could have nothing to do with
the shot. But my baby did NOT have that mole there at birth, it only
came there after receiving the shot.
Then he got the MMR at 12 months. Shortly thereafter, he broke out
with red spots. I took him to the emergency room. They said it was
not unusual for some children to catch the disease from the shot. So
what was the point of the shot, then? The point was to keep them
from getting the disease, and he got it anyway?
At that time I read "DPT - A Shot in the Dark" and "Immunizations:
Theory vs. Reality" and learned the that whole theory behind why
immunizatons are supposed to work is a flawed theory. Studies have
shown that the shots do not confer the true immunity that they are
supposed to confer.
Also, I object to many of the additives put into the shots, which I
believe are harmful, such as aluminum, thimerisol (mercury) and
formaldehyde. Formaldehyde polimerizes living tissue. Also, some of
the growth mediums used to grow the cultures are just gross. "To
make a live vaccine, the live virus must be attenuated, or weakened
for human use. This is accomplished by serial passage - passing the
virus through animal tissue several times to reduce its potency. For
example, measles virus is passed through chick embryos, polio virus
through monkey kidneys, and the rubella virus through human diploid
cells - the dissected organs of an aborted fetus!" (quote from
Immunization: Theory vs. Reality). So since the virus passes
through animal tissue, it picks up animal RNA and DNA and this goes
into your child as well. Who knows whether some of the reactions
children have to the shot is simply a reaction to the foreign animal
genetic material placed into their blood.
Also, the body is strengthened after the true disease has run it's
course, and immunity has been conferred, but after taking the shots,
the body is not strengthened, it is compromised.
In nature, you are probably only going to catch one disease at a
time, maybe two. You immune system can handle this. When they give
these shots, they give three, four or five combinations at once. It
is very hard on the immune system to be bombarded with three to five
different diseases at the same time which it must fight off. In
nature, you would not catch that many diseases at once. So this is
an unnatural condition.
Plus, most of the childhood diseases which killed so many can now be
successfully treated with antibiotics, they are not the threat they
once were. The shots are more of a threat than the actual disease,
in my opinion.
This are just a few of the reason we chose not to take the shots.
Along with the fact that, we do not take kindly to being told that we
HAVE to do anything, no matter what it is.
Judie
Olga
We struggled with this issue as well. We did not immunize our first
until he was past 1yo. I think any younger is just too compromising
to their immune systems. We only did the ones we deemed as
necessary but then we enrolled him in preschool and had to do the
whole series. I was not happy and should have filed for a religious
exemption even though we are not with any church. I heard later it
was really easy to do so that was my fauly for not checking into it
further. My second has had one round of polio and DTP. I may or
may not do the boosters on those but have not decided. He is not
going to school so I have no schedule for myself. The only one I
may do is the tetnus because when my older son got stitches recently
after falling on glass they *required* it. I was happy he already
had it since one more shot of anything may have put him over the
edge!! I have heard if you do MMR you should do them as 3 seperate
shots, not one which has been one factor that has been pointed to as
a cause for autism. My DR. gave me articles to disprove the theory
and although I agree it is most likely not the case, I would not bet
my child's health on it.
IMO, any health "initiative" that is linked with BIG time money is
hard for me to have faith in. Ever notice that in the last 10 years
we suddenly have a whole wave of new vaccines and they keep
growing. Chicken Pox? Come on, for the few cases who are serious I
am sure there are just as many reactions. But drug companies have a
massive interest. Can you imagine the amount of money earned for
every vaccine that is made mandatory. I find it scary. I also find
it scary that people just blindly follow their doctors and never
question anything. The people who question the norm are viewed as
crazy although they are the ones who have taken the extra time to do
the research. We are more educated and yet there is an implication
that we are the exact opposite. I find it is similar with
homeschooling. Everyone has to put their two cents in for why it
does not work and school is great, except these are the same people
who have NEVER read a single thing or investgated educational
options at all. My DH was on the phone with his sister yesterday
and after she went on and on about how she spent all day running
around open house for the kids' school and now at 9:30 pm she had to
check all 4 kids' homework, she proceeded to be suprised that we
were still planning on homeschooling now that we moved to an area
with a great school. DUH!!!!!!!!!!
Olga :)
UnschoolingDiscussion
until he was past 1yo. I think any younger is just too compromising
to their immune systems. We only did the ones we deemed as
necessary but then we enrolled him in preschool and had to do the
whole series. I was not happy and should have filed for a religious
exemption even though we are not with any church. I heard later it
was really easy to do so that was my fauly for not checking into it
further. My second has had one round of polio and DTP. I may or
may not do the boosters on those but have not decided. He is not
going to school so I have no schedule for myself. The only one I
may do is the tetnus because when my older son got stitches recently
after falling on glass they *required* it. I was happy he already
had it since one more shot of anything may have put him over the
edge!! I have heard if you do MMR you should do them as 3 seperate
shots, not one which has been one factor that has been pointed to as
a cause for autism. My DR. gave me articles to disprove the theory
and although I agree it is most likely not the case, I would not bet
my child's health on it.
IMO, any health "initiative" that is linked with BIG time money is
hard for me to have faith in. Ever notice that in the last 10 years
we suddenly have a whole wave of new vaccines and they keep
growing. Chicken Pox? Come on, for the few cases who are serious I
am sure there are just as many reactions. But drug companies have a
massive interest. Can you imagine the amount of money earned for
every vaccine that is made mandatory. I find it scary. I also find
it scary that people just blindly follow their doctors and never
question anything. The people who question the norm are viewed as
crazy although they are the ones who have taken the extra time to do
the research. We are more educated and yet there is an implication
that we are the exact opposite. I find it is similar with
homeschooling. Everyone has to put their two cents in for why it
does not work and school is great, except these are the same people
who have NEVER read a single thing or investgated educational
options at all. My DH was on the phone with his sister yesterday
and after she went on and on about how she spent all day running
around open house for the kids' school and now at 9:30 pm she had to
check all 4 kids' homework, she proceeded to be suprised that we
were still planning on homeschooling now that we moved to an area
with a great school. DUH!!!!!!!!!!
Olga :)
UnschoolingDiscussion
Mary
From: <Dnowens@...>
<< I was hoping that those of you (especially those who vaccinated some of
your kids
and not others) would share some more on why you chose not to and why you
did
one child (or children) but not others. Thanks!>>
From all 4 of my kids, each one has been vaccinated to a different degree.
Tara has had all shots necessary (by Dr. standards) because at that time I
didn't know one could refuse them, never heard of anyone doing so, and had
never looked into doing things any other way. When Joseph was born, I
started off the same way. He's had all his shots for the first 2 years. When
he was two, I joined my local homeschool support group. With that came new
questions regarding breastfeeding, circumcisions and vaccinations. So I
started to look into it. By this time, Sierra had already had her initial
shots too. I did a lot of reading on the internet, both for and against vacs
and talked to as many people as I could about it. By the time Sierra had her
first MMR, she had a terrible reaction and I had decided to stop them all at
that point. I think Joseph had one or two more than Sierra at that time. A
friend of mine had a husband who was some kind of scientist studying vacs
and she said if she knew then what she knew now, she would only do killed
polio and tetanus. And only after the child was 2. So I took all the info I
had, spoke with my husband and made decisions based on what we could live
with.
Giving our kids all the vacs, which had some nasty stuff in them, given way
too young as far as I was concerned and way too many at once and take a
chance on something happening. Or not giving them anymore and taking a
chance on them catching something and then how that would affect them. It's
a risk either way for some people. So we decided we were more comfortable
with no vaccinating. Our last child hasn't had one.
A parent really has to do the work and be totally comfortable with the
decision they make for their kids. Either for or against.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<< I was hoping that those of you (especially those who vaccinated some of
your kids
and not others) would share some more on why you chose not to and why you
did
one child (or children) but not others. Thanks!>>
From all 4 of my kids, each one has been vaccinated to a different degree.
Tara has had all shots necessary (by Dr. standards) because at that time I
didn't know one could refuse them, never heard of anyone doing so, and had
never looked into doing things any other way. When Joseph was born, I
started off the same way. He's had all his shots for the first 2 years. When
he was two, I joined my local homeschool support group. With that came new
questions regarding breastfeeding, circumcisions and vaccinations. So I
started to look into it. By this time, Sierra had already had her initial
shots too. I did a lot of reading on the internet, both for and against vacs
and talked to as many people as I could about it. By the time Sierra had her
first MMR, she had a terrible reaction and I had decided to stop them all at
that point. I think Joseph had one or two more than Sierra at that time. A
friend of mine had a husband who was some kind of scientist studying vacs
and she said if she knew then what she knew now, she would only do killed
polio and tetanus. And only after the child was 2. So I took all the info I
had, spoke with my husband and made decisions based on what we could live
with.
Giving our kids all the vacs, which had some nasty stuff in them, given way
too young as far as I was concerned and way too many at once and take a
chance on something happening. Or not giving them anymore and taking a
chance on them catching something and then how that would affect them. It's
a risk either way for some people. So we decided we were more comfortable
with no vaccinating. Our last child hasn't had one.
A parent really has to do the work and be totally comfortable with the
decision they make for their kids. Either for or against.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
lydia campbell
--- Dnowens@... wrote:
I can't answer your whole question as I only have 1
child. Lyndsey has not had any immunizations. We made
that decision from lots of research. Her doctor is
okay with this as Tom and I are both from medical
backgrounds and medically aware of what is going on in
our community.
Lydia, who has to do work now.
__________________________________
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> I have a question about immunizations. Some of youNancy,
> may remember past
> discussions about this, my stance has always been
> that it is a necessary thing because
> that is what I was always taught;
I can't answer your whole question as I only have 1
child. Lyndsey has not had any immunizations. We made
that decision from lots of research. Her doctor is
okay with this as Tom and I are both from medical
backgrounds and medically aware of what is going on in
our community.
Lydia, who has to do work now.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
joylyn
We also selectively vacinate on our own schedule. If I have another
baby (doubtful) I will delay vaccinations for at least a year, then I
will selectively vaccinate. Tetanus is one vaccination we do do, but we
get the Td or Dt (depending upon the age of the child) instead of the
PTd, because it's the P part that is the worse. We don't do chicken pox
(anyone gets it and wants to share, let me know) either. Nor Hep B.
Joylyn
Barbara Chase wrote:
baby (doubtful) I will delay vaccinations for at least a year, then I
will selectively vaccinate. Tetanus is one vaccination we do do, but we
get the Td or Dt (depending upon the age of the child) instead of the
PTd, because it's the P part that is the worse. We don't do chicken pox
(anyone gets it and wants to share, let me know) either. Nor Hep B.
Joylyn
Barbara Chase wrote:
> Nancy,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> My dd had tetanus when she was little, and I only gave her 1 booster (I
> think 3 or 4 are recommended.) I had planned on not giving her any
> vaccines, but we were in a medical situation that really does call for
> tetanus. The reason I only gave her 1 booster is because while doing my
> research I found that the extra boosters do not contribute to any extra
> protection. She was adequately covered for the incident, and really
> didn't
> need anymore.
>
> In your case, I would say it really does depend on how old your kids are
> and what vaccines you are talking about. There are some vaccines I
> may end
> up doing for my dd if she doesn't get the illness by the time she is a
> teen, but we will see. It's been awhile, so my mind doesn't really have
> the facts... but I do remember when I was doing the research I decided
> that
> if I had a boy I would most certainly consider the vaccine once he
> became a
> teen/young adult. Of course, by then the child is helping to make the
> decision.
>
>
> Namaste
> --bc--
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Barbara Chase
>Tetanus is one vaccination we do do, but weFYI, it is possible, but extremely difficult, to get just plain tetanus.
>get the Td or Dt (depending upon the age of the child)
I've done it. Most physicians won't even allow for the possibility, so
often people are given a false 'no, this can't be done'. The key is that
tetanus only hasn't been tested on all ages, so getting it for a young
child can be challenging. But as I said, I've done it. Also, IMHO, I
don't think I would ever get a tetanus vax as a prevention unless I were
going to be out in the bush for awhile, away from immediate medical
treatments. Why infect a healthy body?
Namaste
--bc--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
liza sabater
After the MMRs, my son Evan's immunological system became so weak that
he is now allergic to 17 different allergens. He may have been already
had the allergies. The fact is that he never got sick before the MMRs
and immediately thereafter he went from one cold or flu to the other,
had his first asthma attack within months, had a horrible reaction to
antibiotics AND developed irritable bowel syndrome. We stopped all
immunization, especially after his first asthma attack.
I also changed peds and looked for a FAMILY MD who, would not only care
to learn all about our family history but who could practice
homeopathy. We've been treated homeopathically now for about 3.5 years
As to immunization, I asked how he felt about it. He responded with
another question: "Are you going anytime soon to Bombay?" Not to insult
all Bombay residents out there, but his point was that, from a public
health POV it was not an issue.
I think I allowed Aidan to have the tetanus vacc. That was it. No MMRs
for him. None.
he is now allergic to 17 different allergens. He may have been already
had the allergies. The fact is that he never got sick before the MMRs
and immediately thereafter he went from one cold or flu to the other,
had his first asthma attack within months, had a horrible reaction to
antibiotics AND developed irritable bowel syndrome. We stopped all
immunization, especially after his first asthma attack.
I also changed peds and looked for a FAMILY MD who, would not only care
to learn all about our family history but who could practice
homeopathy. We've been treated homeopathically now for about 3.5 years
As to immunization, I asked how he felt about it. He responded with
another question: "Are you going anytime soon to Bombay?" Not to insult
all Bombay residents out there, but his point was that, from a public
health POV it was not an issue.
I think I allowed Aidan to have the tetanus vacc. That was it. No MMRs
for him. None.
On Friday, September 19, 2003, at 04:19 AM, Judie C. Rall wrote:
> Then he got the MMR at 12 months. Shortly thereafter, he broke out
> with red spots. I took him to the emergency room. They said it was
> not unusual for some children to catch the disease from the shot. So
> what was the point of the shot, then? The point was to keep them
> from getting the disease, and he got it anyway?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]