[email protected]

In a message dated 9/16/2003 3:42:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> Again, I believe that the attitudes
> towards a woman's body have shaped public health policies that, even
> though we as women know they are wrong

Absolutely, Liza. Fear of exposing breasts is a big reason more women don't
breastfeed in the first place and many breastfeeding experts are starting to
talk about the need to change our cultural perception of breasts if we are ever
to have a fully breastfeeding culture. Katherine Dettwyler, an
anthropologist at (I think) UT has done cross cultural studies about whether or not breasts
are viewed as sexual. (I believe the article is called "Beauty and the
Breast" and it's in a book she co-edited.) Ours (US) is one of only two or three
cultures worldwide (I believe she looked at more than 50) which view breasts as
sexual. Many many women are conflicted about breastfeeding in our culture
because of this. In other places, that's what they're there for. In the US,
it's kind of muddled and it affects the health of babies and their mothers in a
significant way.

Joyce wrote:
>Does our government guarantee the right to nurse in public? I'll have to
>find out. This much I do know; People in our country *are* guaranteed
>the right to their outdated morality. <g>


In the last few years, quite a few states have passed "right to breastfeed in
public" laws, saying you have a right to nurse in public anywhere you have a
right to be. (Although there was that woman who nursed while driving....can't
legislate good judgment I guess!) Most of these laws state that it is not
indecent exposure to show the breast for purposes of breastfeeding. So legally,
in these states, a mother does have the right to be exposed, regardless of
other people's comfort levels. The laws came about because people were and still
are being harassed for nursing in public. (Often at swimming places, by
lifeguards, even when women are being discreet.)

Attitudes towards breasts do affect whether people breastfeed or not. Where
I live breastfeeding is very public, but people tell me when they visit some
parts of the US, no one does it publicly and they're very intimidated from
nursing outside the home. I, being a product of my culture, have always tried to
be discreet as I breastfeed in public. And it's true that it's very possible
to nurse discreetly.

In La Leche League, we are careful to help women fit breastfeeding in with
this culture we live in. But that doesn't mean that the culture is not a real
obstacle to breastfeeding. It is. Because of that, I have a certain
admiration for the women who do "whip it out." Out there at the margins, I think they
have the effect of making the discreet women feel safer. Even discreet women
are going to feel "exposed" if the local custom is to hide under those
elaborate cover-ups or worse, if most nursing women bottle-fed in public due to
shame. The women who choose to be "indiscreet" are changing the culture, the way
flappers in the 1920s did. It shocked; but it spread.

-Pam T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Pam,

I totally agree with your post. I was one of those moms who
struggled with the idea of feeding in public. I had a hard time
with the blanket and although it was a little easier with my second,
it was not too much better!

I think for the next one I am going to find a LLL leage before I
have the baby. I had called someone once I was home with the new
baby and they were not too helpful. In the furture, I think finding
and going to meetings where I feel comfortable ahead of time will
help so the support is already there. By the time the baby comes,
you are too crazed to go check out meetings and support.

I agree the more we see it, the easier it looks and hopefully the
more inclined others will be to try!

Olga :)


> In La Leche League, we are careful to help women fit breastfeeding
in with
> this culture we live in. But that doesn't mean that the culture
is not a real
> obstacle to breastfeeding. It is. Because of that, I have a
certain
> admiration for the women who do "whip it out." Out there at the
margins, I think they
> have the effect of making the discreet women feel safer. Even
discreet women
> are going to feel "exposed" if the local custom is to hide under
those
> elaborate cover-ups or worse, if most nursing women bottle-fed in
public due to
> shame. The women who choose to be "indiscreet" are changing the
culture, the way
> flappers in the 1920s did. It shocked; but it spread.
>
> -Pam T.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:20:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
warblwarbl@... writes:

> Fear of exposing breasts is a big reason more women don't
> breastfeed in the first place

There are LOTS of fears about breastfeeding than just exposing ones self.
Some of them include, how about how will I know if they are getting enough? what
if I can't eat certain foods or take certain medications or even for some,
can't drink alcohol? Others fear being too "tied down" that they can't leave
their baby with anyone else or can't rely on anyone else to help out with
feedings. Another fear is that it HURTS. It does hurt, for a few days at least, and
I'm always honest when someone asks me that, but I always add that the few
days of discomfort are nothing compared to the months of ease you will have by
nursing and all the other benefits.

I'm also not saying any of the above fears are valid reasons to NOT
breastfeed, but in today's world I think exposing a breast would not be the primary
reason that women would choose NOT to breastfeed. after all, a blanket would take
care of that if that was the biggest fear.

In all my years of nursing and encouraging others, not once has anyone told
me they were afraid of exposing themselves so they were reluctant to nurse.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catherine aceto

I think the original poster was right that "fear of flashing" so to speak, is a big reason for not nursing. The other reasons that you mention are also important ones, of course, but in my experience they tend to come from people who are at least *considering* nursing. I've talked to people who wouldn't even consider it, and the exposure aspect seemed to play a big part in their decision.

I also agree with whoever posted that until breasts are seen primarily (or even equally) as food-sources rather than sex sources, there will be whole cultural bias against nursing. I had not seen that K. Detwlyer article, I will look for it. I LOVE her writing about cross-cultural and cross-species extended nursing.

-cat
----- Original Message -----
From: rubyprincesstsg@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] discreet breastfeeding


In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:20:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
warblwarbl@... writes:

> Fear of exposing breasts is a big reason more women don't
> breastfeed in the first place

There are LOTS of fears about breastfeeding than just exposing ones self.
Some of them include, how about how will I know if they are getting enough? what
if I can't eat certain foods or take certain medications or even for some,
can't drink alcohol? Others fear being too "tied down" that they can't leave
their baby with anyone else or can't rely on anyone else to help out with
feedings. Another fear is that it HURTS. It does hurt, for a few days at least, and
I'm always honest when someone asks me that, but I always add that the few
days of discomfort are nothing compared to the months of ease you will have by
nursing and all the other benefits.

I'm also not saying any of the above fears are valid reasons to NOT
breastfeed, but in today's world I think exposing a breast would not be the primary
reason that women would choose NOT to breastfeed. after all, a blanket would take
care of that if that was the biggest fear.

In all my years of nursing and encouraging others, not once has anyone told
me they were afraid of exposing themselves so they were reluctant to nurse.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Glena,

Well, I was one of those people. It makes it hard to leave the
house when you have difficulty nursing outside of it. The other
issues were a non-issue for me.

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], rubyprincesstsg@a...
wrote:
> In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:20:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> warblwarbl@a... writes:
>
> > Fear of exposing breasts is a big reason more women don't
> > breastfeed in the first place
>
> There are LOTS of fears about breastfeeding than just exposing
ones self.
> Some of them include, how about how will I know if they are
getting enough? what
> if I can't eat certain foods or take certain medications or even
for some,
> can't drink alcohol? Others fear being too "tied down" that they
can't leave
> their baby with anyone else or can't rely on anyone else to help
out with
> feedings. Another fear is that it HURTS. It does hurt, for a few
days at least, and
> I'm always honest when someone asks me that, but I always add that
the few
> days of discomfort are nothing compared to the months of ease you
will have by
> nursing and all the other benefits.
>
> I'm also not saying any of the above fears are valid reasons to
NOT
> breastfeed, but in today's world I think exposing a breast would
not be the primary
> reason that women would choose NOT to breastfeed. after all, a
blanket would take
> care of that if that was the biggest fear.
>
> In all my years of nursing and encouraging others, not once has
anyone told
> me they were afraid of exposing themselves so they were reluctant
to nurse.
>
> glena
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amy and Cory Nelson

Yes, yes, yes! Please do that, Olga! I wish every woman would start
attending LLL meetings or set up a breastfeeding support network before they
give birth. When you have that support in place already and feel at ease
with other breastfeeding mothers, it's so much easier to ask for help (if
you need it) in those rather hectic days after the baby arrives.

Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99) and Cole (9/03/02)
"Allow children to be happy in their own way, for what better
way will they find?"
--Dr, Samuel Johnson
http://thissideofsomewhere.blogspot.com/

> I think for the next one I am going to find a LLL leage before I
> have the baby. I had called someone once I was home with the new
> baby and they were not too helpful. In the furture, I think finding
> and going to meetings where I feel comfortable ahead of time will
> help so the support is already there. By the time the baby comes,
> you are too crazed to go check out meetings and support.