sibling fighting/insulting, screaming etc...
Christine Kuglen
I rarely post but i thought I would throw something in here. The other posts I have read have been extraordinarily helpful. Our family experiences this rage at times. I have been insulted and hit. From my inexperienced position(I have never really seen it modeled in a way that I would like to do it and coming from a very violent childhood)I do not always respond appropriately. I am always trying to improve. I have analyzed this situation to try to find its roots. I have no answers but I agree with the need to set boundries. Insulting and blaming are all inefficient attempts that adults and children express anger, frustration, embarrassment and try to get needs met. There is a website called www.radicalhonesty.com that gives some examples of better ways to express anger. It is very radical and I don´t agree with everything there but it has been very helpful.
I have no problem walking away when it is directed at me, the problems arise when it is between two siblings and they are getting close to hitting. For example. Yesterday two kids(age 11 and 7) were watching TV in the bedroom. THe 7 y/o decided somehow(I was not present) that her arms needed to take up all the space and she wouldn´t move for the 11y/o who then had no place to sit. While they were restling over the space I was trying to point out how frustrated I was because a child needed a place to sit and another felt her arms were more important. Their pushing got to the point that someone was going to get hurt after about 10 minutes so I just picked her up and took her out of the room explaining that she wasn´t being reasonable and wouldn´t even negotiate or offer alternatives(this is obviously not about arm space...who knows what was really going on for her and it is a shame that I may never because of my mishandling of the situation). That is when her rage set in. She started kicking doors and punching the microwave. I felt the need to stop her because I don´t have enough money to replace doors and microwaves so I threatened her(I realized even at the time that this was wrong but didn´t know what to do)with damaging one of her things if she damaged one of mine. (this is hard for me to share...deep breath). SHe ended up crying in her room for awhile and I ended up in regret. When a child is unreasonable and infringing on anothers´s rights how do you get them to stop? ALso, Nancy B. wrote about working with foster children(a very helpful post btw) "Or, if I was in the middle of something, they
would have to leave the room, go upstairs, go outside...think about
things...but remove themselves from my presence. Same situation if they are harassing
another child or sibling. It really worked for us. " We do this too but the angry child refuses to go somewhere else, refuses to leave.... Sometimes I am cooking and others are hungry and I need to stay in the kitchen and the aggressor is in the kitchen. Or just yesterday the same 7 y/o came into the livingroom where the only VCR is, sat down and announced that she wanted quiet. I listed the places she could go to get quiet, I would even go with her, but one child wanted to watch a video and had no alternatives. She screamed and wailed about it for a long time, demanding space etc. It finally worked itself out that the child that wanted the video changed her mind and we left the room. But what if ....I can´t get her to be quiet or leave the room, She is unreasonable etc..Ideas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have no problem walking away when it is directed at me, the problems arise when it is between two siblings and they are getting close to hitting. For example. Yesterday two kids(age 11 and 7) were watching TV in the bedroom. THe 7 y/o decided somehow(I was not present) that her arms needed to take up all the space and she wouldn´t move for the 11y/o who then had no place to sit. While they were restling over the space I was trying to point out how frustrated I was because a child needed a place to sit and another felt her arms were more important. Their pushing got to the point that someone was going to get hurt after about 10 minutes so I just picked her up and took her out of the room explaining that she wasn´t being reasonable and wouldn´t even negotiate or offer alternatives(this is obviously not about arm space...who knows what was really going on for her and it is a shame that I may never because of my mishandling of the situation). That is when her rage set in. She started kicking doors and punching the microwave. I felt the need to stop her because I don´t have enough money to replace doors and microwaves so I threatened her(I realized even at the time that this was wrong but didn´t know what to do)with damaging one of her things if she damaged one of mine. (this is hard for me to share...deep breath). SHe ended up crying in her room for awhile and I ended up in regret. When a child is unreasonable and infringing on anothers´s rights how do you get them to stop? ALso, Nancy B. wrote about working with foster children(a very helpful post btw) "Or, if I was in the middle of something, they
would have to leave the room, go upstairs, go outside...think about
things...but remove themselves from my presence. Same situation if they are harassing
another child or sibling. It really worked for us. " We do this too but the angry child refuses to go somewhere else, refuses to leave.... Sometimes I am cooking and others are hungry and I need to stay in the kitchen and the aggressor is in the kitchen. Or just yesterday the same 7 y/o came into the livingroom where the only VCR is, sat down and announced that she wanted quiet. I listed the places she could go to get quiet, I would even go with her, but one child wanted to watch a video and had no alternatives. She screamed and wailed about it for a long time, demanding space etc. It finally worked itself out that the child that wanted the video changed her mind and we left the room. But what if ....I can´t get her to be quiet or leave the room, She is unreasonable etc..Ideas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/15/03 9:01:49 AM, wanderfree@... writes:
<< When a child is unreasonable and infringing on anothers´s rights how do
you get them to stop? >>
In the case of fighting over where to sit, put up another chair, scoot the
chairs apart, don't let either be on the couch---offer some quick alternative.
If they can't decide who gets couch and who gets chair, do
rock/paper/scissors with them (you call it so they just DO it) and the winner picks.
Offer the person with the worse chair a pillow and a blanket.
One time I turned the TV off so they would look at me instead of the TV and
said "Where are you going to sit? You're missing the show, fighting." They
scrambled for places so I would turn it back on, and I did.
Sometimes that sort of cold-water moment helps, but only if it's JUST a
moment, and not just mom's fit replacing their fit. Turning the TV off and telling
them it STAYS off isn't modelling a better plan at all. That's just oldtime
spite and punishment.
Calling one kid away for an honest reason (check the mailbox, please; let the
dog out; roll up the windows on the car, it's going to rain) gives you a
moment to speak to the remaining child quickly before the other one returns a bit
renewed. Buying 30 seconds can make a big difference.
If they're doing a game or a movie they can pause, pause and send both on
little errands (help me set the table, please; turn the back yard lights off,
it's wasting electricity, thanks!), and the physical activity and breathing will
give them new starting places.
Above all, model a way that they can solve their own problem next time. Let
them start to see that getting up DOES help, that games DO pause (usually, at
some point, not always at every point) that either they're watching TV and
there will come a commercial, or they're watching recorded shows and they can
pause, etc.
If a kid throws a board game everywhere, the best thing to do is get everyone
out of there and away from it so they can calm down NOT in the presence of sc
attered pieces and parts. Then there are options, too. Either the calmest
kid can pick it all up, the mom can pick it up, the mom can ask the thrower to
help, but if the mom only has one plan (you threw it, you have to clean it up
by yourself), the mom isn't modelling making the smoothest choice from several
options. Moms with rigid rules teach kids to make rigid decisions and stick
to them no matter how badly they're affecting people. And those kids are
more likely, I think, to throw tantrums, and gameboards, and each other.
Sandra
<< When a child is unreasonable and infringing on anothers´s rights how do
you get them to stop? >>
In the case of fighting over where to sit, put up another chair, scoot the
chairs apart, don't let either be on the couch---offer some quick alternative.
If they can't decide who gets couch and who gets chair, do
rock/paper/scissors with them (you call it so they just DO it) and the winner picks.
Offer the person with the worse chair a pillow and a blanket.
One time I turned the TV off so they would look at me instead of the TV and
said "Where are you going to sit? You're missing the show, fighting." They
scrambled for places so I would turn it back on, and I did.
Sometimes that sort of cold-water moment helps, but only if it's JUST a
moment, and not just mom's fit replacing their fit. Turning the TV off and telling
them it STAYS off isn't modelling a better plan at all. That's just oldtime
spite and punishment.
Calling one kid away for an honest reason (check the mailbox, please; let the
dog out; roll up the windows on the car, it's going to rain) gives you a
moment to speak to the remaining child quickly before the other one returns a bit
renewed. Buying 30 seconds can make a big difference.
If they're doing a game or a movie they can pause, pause and send both on
little errands (help me set the table, please; turn the back yard lights off,
it's wasting electricity, thanks!), and the physical activity and breathing will
give them new starting places.
Above all, model a way that they can solve their own problem next time. Let
them start to see that getting up DOES help, that games DO pause (usually, at
some point, not always at every point) that either they're watching TV and
there will come a commercial, or they're watching recorded shows and they can
pause, etc.
If a kid throws a board game everywhere, the best thing to do is get everyone
out of there and away from it so they can calm down NOT in the presence of sc
attered pieces and parts. Then there are options, too. Either the calmest
kid can pick it all up, the mom can pick it up, the mom can ask the thrower to
help, but if the mom only has one plan (you threw it, you have to clean it up
by yourself), the mom isn't modelling making the smoothest choice from several
options. Moms with rigid rules teach kids to make rigid decisions and stick
to them no matter how badly they're affecting people. And those kids are
more likely, I think, to throw tantrums, and gameboards, and each other.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Monday, September 15, 2003, at 09:59 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
observed a whole lot of rigid-rules kids behave in very aggressive, but
sneaky, ways when they think they can get away with it.
-pam
> Moms with rigid rules teach kids to make rigid decisions and stickAlthough - not in front of their own moms a lot of the time. I've
> to them no matter how badly they're affecting people. And those kids
> are
> more likely, I think, to throw tantrums, and gameboards, and each
> other.
>
observed a whole lot of rigid-rules kids behave in very aggressive, but
sneaky, ways when they think they can get away with it.
-pam