Kids being tough
[email protected]
<< My kids are also tough enough to watch another child having a
rage without passing out etc etc. Most of the time they ignore it. >>
This is a separate topic from sibling relations. I have a long story but has
to do with why some kids can be tough enough to ignore rage while others
aren't.
My sister and I had an alcoholic mother. She threw a fit so big and so bad
one day they put her in the hospital for two weeks where she resisted
counseling, refused drugs, and came home worse than ever.
I'm not alcoholic. My sister is (but doesn't drink any more).
Once I left my home town, I didn't think too much about the fact that I was
living where there wasn't a lot of alcohol around, and life moves on through
the years. Keith and I were together seven years before we had a baby.
My mom quit drinking when Kirby was one, and quit for nine years.
Kirby was two when my mom and I went to visit Irene, my sister, who's three
years younger. She had three kids then, the oldest five. They lived in El
Duende, across the Rio Grande from San Juan Pueblo.
We were going to spend the night. My mom was taking a nap in my sister's
camper van, near the door to the house. My sister, brother-in-law, and a male
friend of ours their age (we've known him all our lives, his parents were
Baptist missionaries who translated the Bible into Tewa) were there drinking in the
kitchen, where we were sitting.
Irene's three kids were lined up on the couch watching cartoons in the next
room. I could see them all through the door from where I was sitting. Kirby
was sometimes playing with toys, sometimes visiting the other kids on the
couch, sometimes nursing. It got dark.
They drank and drank, and we were talking, and after a while my brother in
law got insulting. I asked him not to be that way. He insulted that. Don,
the friend, got into years' old stuff, for fun, just razzing and poking,
defending Gene, for fun. It wasn't going to be any fun for me. I tried changing
subjects, saying nice things, and they wouldn't have it. It was verbal, not
physical, but they were totally into having a fight. Kirby was scared of the
yelling, and scooted out to go see his granny.
They laughed at him for being afraid, and said he was a "titty-baby" and if I
hadn't nursed him after he could walk, he wouldn't be such a little baby.
At that point I was getting pretty cranky, because I don't drive well after
dark. I can see fine, but I get sleepy. So I felt trapped, 90 miles from
home, with crazed drunks intent on hooting until they passed out.
My mom came in, watched the situation for a minute, and said "I think we
should just go on back to Albuquerque." By then I was angry enough I could have
stayed awake to El Paso if I'd needed to. So I got our stuff and said we
were going, which was met by nonsense like "Oh, don't go, we were just playing,
you were going to spend the night, you should stay."
When we got in the van and started driving, my mom said what Kirby had done
was come out in the total darkness, open the van himself, rush up onto the bed
where she was and say "Granny, there's a monster in there!" He had never
cried or anything, just become really alert and worried, and gotten help.
On the way home I was feeling mixed fury and elation. Until that incident I
hadn't seen how free of alcoholic insanity my life with Keith was. I REALLY
had not noticed the huge difference between a life with resident drunks and
one without. When our drinking friends visited, or we visited them, it wasn't
the same situation as living with it.
When I got home I wrote my sister a long letter telling her what I had
thought on the way home.
The biggest and most telling thing of all was that through all the yelling,
through all the insults, through people deciding to go home and leaving,
Irene's kids didn't look away from the TV. They sat as calmly as though the house
had been quiet.
Kirby wasn't afraid because he had been nursed. He was afraid because in
over two years of life he had never ever yet once seen drunks yelling at each
other.
When I was his age, I had.
When Irene was his age, she had.
Their children obviously had heard it all before and it was no big deal.
I had resolved that night to continue to protect my kids from that kind of
behavior.
What's really wonderful about the story is that my sister and brother in law
decided to stop drinking when they got my letter, and they still don't drink.
That was fifteen years ago. They got a divorce last year, and I was afraid
Gene, at least, would drink in the wake of that horrible separation and
divorce, but he didn't. Neither did Irene.
My kids are horrified when they see someone swat a child, and I'm glad. It's
not a weakness, it's a strength. They're offended if a parent speaks really
hatefully or sarcastically to a child, or when a parent laughs at his own
child in front of other people. I think that makes them better people and will
make them better parents.
I was tough as a kid. When drunks woke me up yelling in the next room, I
just went back to sleep, knowing they'd eventually run out of liquor or pass out
or both. I wouldn't let drunks wake my kids up now if they're asleep. I
don't even let sober people make so much noise they wake other people up. That's
an example of a principle. The people who live in a house have the right to
sleep, even if they're little people. I don't have to give anyone the right
or power to disturb my children's peace in their own space.
Sandra
rage without passing out etc etc. Most of the time they ignore it. >>
This is a separate topic from sibling relations. I have a long story but has
to do with why some kids can be tough enough to ignore rage while others
aren't.
My sister and I had an alcoholic mother. She threw a fit so big and so bad
one day they put her in the hospital for two weeks where she resisted
counseling, refused drugs, and came home worse than ever.
I'm not alcoholic. My sister is (but doesn't drink any more).
Once I left my home town, I didn't think too much about the fact that I was
living where there wasn't a lot of alcohol around, and life moves on through
the years. Keith and I were together seven years before we had a baby.
My mom quit drinking when Kirby was one, and quit for nine years.
Kirby was two when my mom and I went to visit Irene, my sister, who's three
years younger. She had three kids then, the oldest five. They lived in El
Duende, across the Rio Grande from San Juan Pueblo.
We were going to spend the night. My mom was taking a nap in my sister's
camper van, near the door to the house. My sister, brother-in-law, and a male
friend of ours their age (we've known him all our lives, his parents were
Baptist missionaries who translated the Bible into Tewa) were there drinking in the
kitchen, where we were sitting.
Irene's three kids were lined up on the couch watching cartoons in the next
room. I could see them all through the door from where I was sitting. Kirby
was sometimes playing with toys, sometimes visiting the other kids on the
couch, sometimes nursing. It got dark.
They drank and drank, and we were talking, and after a while my brother in
law got insulting. I asked him not to be that way. He insulted that. Don,
the friend, got into years' old stuff, for fun, just razzing and poking,
defending Gene, for fun. It wasn't going to be any fun for me. I tried changing
subjects, saying nice things, and they wouldn't have it. It was verbal, not
physical, but they were totally into having a fight. Kirby was scared of the
yelling, and scooted out to go see his granny.
They laughed at him for being afraid, and said he was a "titty-baby" and if I
hadn't nursed him after he could walk, he wouldn't be such a little baby.
At that point I was getting pretty cranky, because I don't drive well after
dark. I can see fine, but I get sleepy. So I felt trapped, 90 miles from
home, with crazed drunks intent on hooting until they passed out.
My mom came in, watched the situation for a minute, and said "I think we
should just go on back to Albuquerque." By then I was angry enough I could have
stayed awake to El Paso if I'd needed to. So I got our stuff and said we
were going, which was met by nonsense like "Oh, don't go, we were just playing,
you were going to spend the night, you should stay."
When we got in the van and started driving, my mom said what Kirby had done
was come out in the total darkness, open the van himself, rush up onto the bed
where she was and say "Granny, there's a monster in there!" He had never
cried or anything, just become really alert and worried, and gotten help.
On the way home I was feeling mixed fury and elation. Until that incident I
hadn't seen how free of alcoholic insanity my life with Keith was. I REALLY
had not noticed the huge difference between a life with resident drunks and
one without. When our drinking friends visited, or we visited them, it wasn't
the same situation as living with it.
When I got home I wrote my sister a long letter telling her what I had
thought on the way home.
The biggest and most telling thing of all was that through all the yelling,
through all the insults, through people deciding to go home and leaving,
Irene's kids didn't look away from the TV. They sat as calmly as though the house
had been quiet.
Kirby wasn't afraid because he had been nursed. He was afraid because in
over two years of life he had never ever yet once seen drunks yelling at each
other.
When I was his age, I had.
When Irene was his age, she had.
Their children obviously had heard it all before and it was no big deal.
I had resolved that night to continue to protect my kids from that kind of
behavior.
What's really wonderful about the story is that my sister and brother in law
decided to stop drinking when they got my letter, and they still don't drink.
That was fifteen years ago. They got a divorce last year, and I was afraid
Gene, at least, would drink in the wake of that horrible separation and
divorce, but he didn't. Neither did Irene.
My kids are horrified when they see someone swat a child, and I'm glad. It's
not a weakness, it's a strength. They're offended if a parent speaks really
hatefully or sarcastically to a child, or when a parent laughs at his own
child in front of other people. I think that makes them better people and will
make them better parents.
I was tough as a kid. When drunks woke me up yelling in the next room, I
just went back to sleep, knowing they'd eventually run out of liquor or pass out
or both. I wouldn't let drunks wake my kids up now if they're asleep. I
don't even let sober people make so much noise they wake other people up. That's
an example of a principle. The people who live in a house have the right to
sleep, even if they're little people. I don't have to give anyone the right
or power to disturb my children's peace in their own space.
Sandra
Mary
<<From: <SandraDodd@...>
The biggest and most telling thing of all was that through all the yelling,
through all the insults, through people deciding to go home and leaving,
Irene's kids didn't look away from the TV. They sat as calmly as though
the house
had been quiet.
Kirby wasn't afraid because he had been nursed. He was afraid because in
over two years of life he had never ever yet once seen drunks yelling at
each
other.>>
I'm glad you told that story. I think it said an awful lot.
I was thinking of similar things when hearing of some kids just taking
disturbances easier than others. My first thought was when my sister in law
came to my house on the premise of handing over a belated birthday gift to
Sierra. Once inside, she went off on me big time. Things from years ago that
made no sense. To me, she went nuts. I'm not used to seeing people act that
way. I would say she was a lunatic. My husband didn't see anything so
absurd. He was used to it. But when she really went nuts, he wasn't home. I
was home with the kids and I asked her to leave. Then I told her to leave.
She refused and followed me through my house yelling like a nut. My kids
were scared and very confused. They just didn't handle that well. They had
never been around that kind of behavior. Sierra ran into my moms. I put
Alyssa and Joseph together in his room and Tara headed for hers. I called
Joe who was there in a heartbeat. The kids were affected by that for quite
awhile after.
No matter what the circumstances were, (my SIL's husband was dying) and no
matter what her beef with us was, there are ways and places to handle things
without thinking it okay to verbally abuse anyone to get a point across.
Ignoring her and letting her blow off steam wouldn't have helped me or my
kids in the least. I'm not saying it would have damaged them for life, but
definitely not something I was willing to put them through any longer than
it was happening.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
The biggest and most telling thing of all was that through all the yelling,
through all the insults, through people deciding to go home and leaving,
Irene's kids didn't look away from the TV. They sat as calmly as though
the house
had been quiet.
Kirby wasn't afraid because he had been nursed. He was afraid because in
over two years of life he had never ever yet once seen drunks yelling at
each
other.>>
I'm glad you told that story. I think it said an awful lot.
I was thinking of similar things when hearing of some kids just taking
disturbances easier than others. My first thought was when my sister in law
came to my house on the premise of handing over a belated birthday gift to
Sierra. Once inside, she went off on me big time. Things from years ago that
made no sense. To me, she went nuts. I'm not used to seeing people act that
way. I would say she was a lunatic. My husband didn't see anything so
absurd. He was used to it. But when she really went nuts, he wasn't home. I
was home with the kids and I asked her to leave. Then I told her to leave.
She refused and followed me through my house yelling like a nut. My kids
were scared and very confused. They just didn't handle that well. They had
never been around that kind of behavior. Sierra ran into my moms. I put
Alyssa and Joseph together in his room and Tara headed for hers. I called
Joe who was there in a heartbeat. The kids were affected by that for quite
awhile after.
No matter what the circumstances were, (my SIL's husband was dying) and no
matter what her beef with us was, there are ways and places to handle things
without thinking it okay to verbally abuse anyone to get a point across.
Ignoring her and letting her blow off steam wouldn't have helped me or my
kids in the least. I'm not saying it would have damaged them for life, but
definitely not something I was willing to put them through any longer than
it was happening.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Olga
Mary,
I think this is an excellent point: >
Many people believe they can behave in inapporopriate ways and a
small apology or excuse for current problems makes it okay.
Sometimes, it is important for them to truely understand that they
have hurt someone else deeply. They may be over it, but the person
who is hurt may not be for some time. This is a big issue with my
family where my mom says hurtful things and thinks that sorry or
some excuse to point the finger else where is enough. On the
surface it may be forgotten but it lingers in your heart for much
longer. Obviously, it is different with children but as mentioned
many times before on this topic kids need to understand that the
consequences for such behavior can create a wound that might not be
easy to heal. It's kinda reminds me of that Mercer Mayer book "I'm
Sorry" where he does a bunch of things and thinks saying sorry is
enough and Mom finally says sometimes that is not good enough. I
refer to this story with my son all the time with much more minor
behavior. I just gently remind him of the book and that we have to
work on that behavoir not just use sorry as a bandage. I am not
implying that with any particular case discussed here as I know it
goes much deeper and everyone has mentioned reminding their children
of this. I think it is one of the more important factors discussed
on this topic.
I do also think that sometimes someone calling you a *itch is not as
bad as direct personal attacks on decisions, looks, etc. I would
much rather someone call me an arbitrary cuss word than to attack my
decisions with my children or something of the sort. Those sort of
things feel very personal and create feelings of betrayal.
Olga :)
I think this is an excellent point: >
> No matter what the circumstances were, (my SIL's husband wasdying) and no
> matter what her beef with us was, there are ways and places tohandle things
> without thinking it okay to verbally abuse anyone to get a pointacross.
Many people believe they can behave in inapporopriate ways and a
small apology or excuse for current problems makes it okay.
Sometimes, it is important for them to truely understand that they
have hurt someone else deeply. They may be over it, but the person
who is hurt may not be for some time. This is a big issue with my
family where my mom says hurtful things and thinks that sorry or
some excuse to point the finger else where is enough. On the
surface it may be forgotten but it lingers in your heart for much
longer. Obviously, it is different with children but as mentioned
many times before on this topic kids need to understand that the
consequences for such behavior can create a wound that might not be
easy to heal. It's kinda reminds me of that Mercer Mayer book "I'm
Sorry" where he does a bunch of things and thinks saying sorry is
enough and Mom finally says sometimes that is not good enough. I
refer to this story with my son all the time with much more minor
behavior. I just gently remind him of the book and that we have to
work on that behavoir not just use sorry as a bandage. I am not
implying that with any particular case discussed here as I know it
goes much deeper and everyone has mentioned reminding their children
of this. I think it is one of the more important factors discussed
on this topic.
I do also think that sometimes someone calling you a *itch is not as
bad as direct personal attacks on decisions, looks, etc. I would
much rather someone call me an arbitrary cuss word than to attack my
decisions with my children or something of the sort. Those sort of
things feel very personal and create feelings of betrayal.
Olga :)
>
>
> Mary B.
> http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Mary
<<From: "Olga" <mccluskieo@...>
Many people believe they can behave in inapporopriate ways and a
small apology or excuse for current problems makes it okay.
Sometimes, it is important for them to truely understand that they
have hurt someone else deeply.>>
And it's taken me awhile to understand, not coming from a family who "duked
it out verbally" that some families just handle things like that with their
kids and their kids grow into adults who handle things like that too. What
else did they know?
My husbands whole family all just say things in the spur of the moment, very
hurtful things that the next day they have forgotten all about. I'm a strong
believer, for me, not to say anything I don't really mean. I may be unclear
about things, but I won't tell someone to drop dead or that I hate them or
call them a name just because I may be upset. I have always been aware of
how personal and hurtful words can be. I know they are "just words" but for
me, I'm just very careful in what comes out. Especially when I'm upset.
So all the years of fighting and arguing and saying mean things with my
husbands family pretty much rolls right off his back. He grew up not knowing
how to communicate any other way. (with them) Surprisingly, he isn't that
way with anyone else but them. They on the other hand are like that with
everyone. If he wasn't the spitting image of his dad, I'd swear he was
adopted!
All the more reason I think for me to be so careful about how I speak around
and with my kids and how they in turn treat others. I like when on this list
Sandra will point out to her kids how maybe something they say or do is fine
around each other but others may not always interpret those words or actions
in the same way. I think that is very important for children to understand.
I like that someone is saying it's okay here with me and the family, but
someone else just may look at it differently. It makes the child aware of
others and the choices they can and will make accordingly.
It's late, does all that make sense?!
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Many people believe they can behave in inapporopriate ways and a
small apology or excuse for current problems makes it okay.
Sometimes, it is important for them to truely understand that they
have hurt someone else deeply.>>
And it's taken me awhile to understand, not coming from a family who "duked
it out verbally" that some families just handle things like that with their
kids and their kids grow into adults who handle things like that too. What
else did they know?
My husbands whole family all just say things in the spur of the moment, very
hurtful things that the next day they have forgotten all about. I'm a strong
believer, for me, not to say anything I don't really mean. I may be unclear
about things, but I won't tell someone to drop dead or that I hate them or
call them a name just because I may be upset. I have always been aware of
how personal and hurtful words can be. I know they are "just words" but for
me, I'm just very careful in what comes out. Especially when I'm upset.
So all the years of fighting and arguing and saying mean things with my
husbands family pretty much rolls right off his back. He grew up not knowing
how to communicate any other way. (with them) Surprisingly, he isn't that
way with anyone else but them. They on the other hand are like that with
everyone. If he wasn't the spitting image of his dad, I'd swear he was
adopted!
All the more reason I think for me to be so careful about how I speak around
and with my kids and how they in turn treat others. I like when on this list
Sandra will point out to her kids how maybe something they say or do is fine
around each other but others may not always interpret those words or actions
in the same way. I think that is very important for children to understand.
I like that someone is saying it's okay here with me and the family, but
someone else just may look at it differently. It makes the child aware of
others and the choices they can and will make accordingly.
It's late, does all that make sense?!
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/15/2003 12:01:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mccluskieo@... writes:
I do also think that sometimes someone calling you a *itch is not as
bad as direct personal attacks on decisions, looks, etc. I would
much rather someone call me an arbitrary cuss word than to attack my
decisions with my children or something of the sort. Those sort of
things feel very personal and create feelings of betrayal.
My husband and I love the movie Slingblade, and everytime someone says
something that is truly meant to hurt then patches it with an "Oh I was just
kidding" or a quick sorry, we tell them they're sounding like Doyle again (the
character Dwight Yokum played in the movie. He would call someone who was obviously
M.R. a "retard" or someone gay a **cking faggot then say, "Oh, I was just
kidding, you know I'm playin' with ya." Attacks on someone's looks or abilities
or something they CAN'T change are the worse, IMO.
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mccluskieo@... writes:
I do also think that sometimes someone calling you a *itch is not as
bad as direct personal attacks on decisions, looks, etc. I would
much rather someone call me an arbitrary cuss word than to attack my
decisions with my children or something of the sort. Those sort of
things feel very personal and create feelings of betrayal.
My husband and I love the movie Slingblade, and everytime someone says
something that is truly meant to hurt then patches it with an "Oh I was just
kidding" or a quick sorry, we tell them they're sounding like Doyle again (the
character Dwight Yokum played in the movie. He would call someone who was obviously
M.R. a "retard" or someone gay a **cking faggot then say, "Oh, I was just
kidding, you know I'm playin' with ya." Attacks on someone's looks or abilities
or something they CAN'T change are the worse, IMO.
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
glad2bmadly
Thanks for sharing that. How wonderful that your sister and her husband quit because of your letter. I once wrote a letter to my dad about how his intense smoking was scaring me because I felt my kids might not end up with any grandparents on my side (my mother had already died) and he quit for a few years from that letter. He had already quit drinking. I hadn't thought about how free our lives are of the alcoholic insanity I grew up with. My kids don't walk on egg shells and aren't "toughened up" at all. It's a good realization.
However, I have been struggling lately with the emotions that come up in me when my more volatile son ignores me or gets really hyper. I just lose it, inside. I take a time-out, which usually calms me down pretty quickly. But there are times when I yell. I sometimes think he is smiling at my rising emotion, seeing if he can get it to erupt. It's entertainment. i don't think he feels nervous or unsafe, just likes the game. I guess it's good that he isn't scared. I'll think I've broken the pattern and then i'll have a tired day or be feeling emotional anyway and I lose my patience. I find that I take it out on my dog and cat (verbally, and not in a big way) and not on my kids, as a rule. I have been blaming this on my exhaustion when i am having a difficult bout of Chronic Fatigue (it comes and goes). But maybe I should invest some time in adult chil. of alc. reading or meetings. It's hard to know sometimes which comes first in us, the physical or the mental. You know?
And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a waste of time to do so much inner work. I have done some in the past, but not related to the parental alcoholism.
Madeline
SandraDodd@... wrote:
I had resolved that night to continue to protect my kids from that kind of
behavior.
What's really wonderful about the story is that my sister and brother in law
decided to stop drinking when they got my letter, and they still don't drink.
That was fifteen years ago. They got a divorce last year, and I was afraid
Gene, at least, would drink in the wake of that horrible separation and
divorce, but he didn't. Neither did Irene.
My kids are horrified when they see someone swat a child, and I'm glad. It's
not a weakness, it's a strength. They're offended if a parent speaks really
hatefully or sarcastically to a child, or when a parent laughs at his own
child in front of other people. I think that makes them better people and will
make them better parents.
I was tough as a kid. When drunks woke me up yelling in the next room, I
just went back to sleep, knowing they'd eventually run out of liquor or pass out
or both. I wouldn't let drunks wake my kids up now if they're asleep. I
don't even let sober people make so much noise they wake other people up. That's
an example of a principle. The people who live in a house have the right to
sleep, even if they're little people. I don't have to give anyone the right
or power to disturb my children's peace in their own space.
Sandra
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However, I have been struggling lately with the emotions that come up in me when my more volatile son ignores me or gets really hyper. I just lose it, inside. I take a time-out, which usually calms me down pretty quickly. But there are times when I yell. I sometimes think he is smiling at my rising emotion, seeing if he can get it to erupt. It's entertainment. i don't think he feels nervous or unsafe, just likes the game. I guess it's good that he isn't scared. I'll think I've broken the pattern and then i'll have a tired day or be feeling emotional anyway and I lose my patience. I find that I take it out on my dog and cat (verbally, and not in a big way) and not on my kids, as a rule. I have been blaming this on my exhaustion when i am having a difficult bout of Chronic Fatigue (it comes and goes). But maybe I should invest some time in adult chil. of alc. reading or meetings. It's hard to know sometimes which comes first in us, the physical or the mental. You know?
And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a waste of time to do so much inner work. I have done some in the past, but not related to the parental alcoholism.
Madeline
SandraDodd@... wrote:
I had resolved that night to continue to protect my kids from that kind of
behavior.
What's really wonderful about the story is that my sister and brother in law
decided to stop drinking when they got my letter, and they still don't drink.
That was fifteen years ago. They got a divorce last year, and I was afraid
Gene, at least, would drink in the wake of that horrible separation and
divorce, but he didn't. Neither did Irene.
My kids are horrified when they see someone swat a child, and I'm glad. It's
not a weakness, it's a strength. They're offended if a parent speaks really
hatefully or sarcastically to a child, or when a parent laughs at his own
child in front of other people. I think that makes them better people and will
make them better parents.
I was tough as a kid. When drunks woke me up yelling in the next room, I
just went back to sleep, knowing they'd eventually run out of liquor or pass out
or both. I wouldn't let drunks wake my kids up now if they're asleep. I
don't even let sober people make so much noise they wake other people up. That's
an example of a principle. The people who live in a house have the right to
sleep, even if they're little people. I don't have to give anyone the right
or power to disturb my children's peace in their own space.
Sandra
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"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 9/15/03 9:02:38 AM, glad2bmadly@... writes:
<< I'll think I've broken the pattern and then i'll have a tired day or be
feeling emotional anyway and I lose my patience. >>
Me too.
I can act JUST like my mom on a bad day of my childhood if I don't keep
myself mindful of my goals and priorities.
Kirby ignores me sometimes, or rather just doesn't respond verbally in the
way I would most like him to. He mutters, or doesn't say anything. Sometimes
I've poked him in the shame area, and sometimes I've done better and said, when
we're alone, that it's frustrating and embarrassing for me, and he'll do
better for a while.
<<But maybe I should invest some time in adult chil. of alc. reading or
meetings. It's hard to know sometimes which comes first in us, the physical or the
mental. You know?>>
It surely helped me. Our culture so separates physical and mental that we
think one must come first, because we see them as separate. But I think
biochemistry will be much better understood by our children, when they're grown, and
their children. Movement and diet and mood won't be seen as the totally
separate things they seem to be by the words we use to discuss them now.
If everyone in the family is smiled at, fed, watered, warm or cool as they
need, their shoes are comfortable, their next project/meeting/visit is on
schedule and they have what they need, there's not so much need for panic and
argument.
[Scanning my own life at the moment.... Kirby has to be at work at 11:30 and
I haven't heard him moving--Holly went to check. His gi is still in the bag
from a seminar he attended yesterday, but he teaches karate tomorrow
afternoon. He works until 7:30 tonight, so I should get that and put it in the
laundry... Stuff like that shouldn't have been left to slide, but it's not too
late to pull it out! If I just totally consider it HIS problem, his problem
becomes everyone's problem, and I don't help him learn generosity and compassion.]
It's NEXT Monday he works at 11:30. Today is 2:00. Holly woke him up early
because I was confused. Ooops.
<<And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a waste
of time to do so much inner work. I have done some in the past, but not
related to the parental alcoholism. >>
The best trick I did you can do easily (and you probably already are anyway).
When Kirby, as a baby or toddler, would want to do something, my first
thought or reaction was whatever my mom would have said or done. That was kind of
lizard-brain level. The "no" would pop to the top of my choices, and I would
run a quick internal dialog.
"Why not?"
(my mom's lame excuse pops up)
"What if the answer had been yes? What if she had said yes TO ME when I was
little? Would my life have been better? Would my relationship with her have
been better? Wouldn't she even have been happier and been a better mom if
she'd just said YES sometimes?"
So I would do for Kirby what I wished had been done for me. And I would be
doing it simultaneously for baby Kirby AND for baby Sandra.
The way some people take teddy bears with them to self-help groups dealing
with inner child work, I just used the living Kirby Dodd as my "lovey," and as I
parented him, I reparented me.
Sandra
<< I'll think I've broken the pattern and then i'll have a tired day or be
feeling emotional anyway and I lose my patience. >>
Me too.
I can act JUST like my mom on a bad day of my childhood if I don't keep
myself mindful of my goals and priorities.
Kirby ignores me sometimes, or rather just doesn't respond verbally in the
way I would most like him to. He mutters, or doesn't say anything. Sometimes
I've poked him in the shame area, and sometimes I've done better and said, when
we're alone, that it's frustrating and embarrassing for me, and he'll do
better for a while.
<<But maybe I should invest some time in adult chil. of alc. reading or
meetings. It's hard to know sometimes which comes first in us, the physical or the
mental. You know?>>
It surely helped me. Our culture so separates physical and mental that we
think one must come first, because we see them as separate. But I think
biochemistry will be much better understood by our children, when they're grown, and
their children. Movement and diet and mood won't be seen as the totally
separate things they seem to be by the words we use to discuss them now.
If everyone in the family is smiled at, fed, watered, warm or cool as they
need, their shoes are comfortable, their next project/meeting/visit is on
schedule and they have what they need, there's not so much need for panic and
argument.
[Scanning my own life at the moment.... Kirby has to be at work at 11:30 and
I haven't heard him moving--Holly went to check. His gi is still in the bag
from a seminar he attended yesterday, but he teaches karate tomorrow
afternoon. He works until 7:30 tonight, so I should get that and put it in the
laundry... Stuff like that shouldn't have been left to slide, but it's not too
late to pull it out! If I just totally consider it HIS problem, his problem
becomes everyone's problem, and I don't help him learn generosity and compassion.]
It's NEXT Monday he works at 11:30. Today is 2:00. Holly woke him up early
because I was confused. Ooops.
<<And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a waste
of time to do so much inner work. I have done some in the past, but not
related to the parental alcoholism. >>
The best trick I did you can do easily (and you probably already are anyway).
When Kirby, as a baby or toddler, would want to do something, my first
thought or reaction was whatever my mom would have said or done. That was kind of
lizard-brain level. The "no" would pop to the top of my choices, and I would
run a quick internal dialog.
"Why not?"
(my mom's lame excuse pops up)
"What if the answer had been yes? What if she had said yes TO ME when I was
little? Would my life have been better? Would my relationship with her have
been better? Wouldn't she even have been happier and been a better mom if
she'd just said YES sometimes?"
So I would do for Kirby what I wished had been done for me. And I would be
doing it simultaneously for baby Kirby AND for baby Sandra.
The way some people take teddy bears with them to self-help groups dealing
with inner child work, I just used the living Kirby Dodd as my "lovey," and as I
parented him, I reparented me.
Sandra
Olga
Nancy,
I agree with this. My mom used to do this all the time and it made
you feel even angrier. Not only have you insulted me but with
the "I was only joking" statement you take away the other persons
right to defend themselves and insulted their intelligence.
Olga :)
I agree with this. My mom used to do this all the time and it made
you feel even angrier. Not only have you insulted me but with
the "I was only joking" statement you take away the other persons
right to defend themselves and insulted their intelligence.
Olga :)
> My husband and I love the movie Slingblade, and everytime someonesays
> something that is truly meant to hurt then patches it with an "OhI was just
> kidding" or a quick sorry, we tell them they're sounding likeDoyle again (the
> character Dwight Yokum played in the movie. He would call someonewho was obviously
> M.R. a "retard" or someone gay a **cking faggot then say, "Oh, Iwas just
> kidding, you know I'm playin' with ya." Attacks on someone'slooks or abilities
> or something they CAN'T change are the worse, IMO.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
glad2bmadly
SandraDodd@... wrote:
The "no" would pop to the top of my choices, and I would
run a quick internal dialog.
"Why not?"
(my mom's lame excuse pops up)
"What if the answer had been yes? What if she had said yes TO ME when I was
little? Would my life have been better? Would my relationship with her have
been better? Wouldn't she even have been happier and been a better mom if
she'd just said YES sometimes?"
So I would do for Kirby what I wished had been done for me. And I would be
doing it simultaneously for baby Kirby AND for baby Sandra.
The way some people take teddy bears with them to self-help groups dealing
with inner child work, I just used the living Kirby Dodd as my "lovey," and as I
parented him, I reparented me.
Sandra
I like that alot. I give my kids a lot of yeses (much more since coming here for sure) and lots of love. But I could probably say "no" even less; and I would erase all subconscious sadness/resentment I bet if I were reparenting myself while loving them. It's hard (but only sometimes) to see them able to express their needs and power so grandiosely when I was shot down for the same as a child.
I decided to go to an ACA meeting and found out the nearest one is an hour away. But it is on a night when the boys are at soccer with my husband and after I teach my acting class, so I won't feel too self-indulgent <g>!
Thanks, Madeline
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The "no" would pop to the top of my choices, and I would
run a quick internal dialog.
"Why not?"
(my mom's lame excuse pops up)
"What if the answer had been yes? What if she had said yes TO ME when I was
little? Would my life have been better? Would my relationship with her have
been better? Wouldn't she even have been happier and been a better mom if
she'd just said YES sometimes?"
So I would do for Kirby what I wished had been done for me. And I would be
doing it simultaneously for baby Kirby AND for baby Sandra.
The way some people take teddy bears with them to self-help groups dealing
with inner child work, I just used the living Kirby Dodd as my "lovey," and as I
parented him, I reparented me.
Sandra
I like that alot. I give my kids a lot of yeses (much more since coming here for sure) and lots of love. But I could probably say "no" even less; and I would erase all subconscious sadness/resentment I bet if I were reparenting myself while loving them. It's hard (but only sometimes) to see them able to express their needs and power so grandiosely when I was shot down for the same as a child.
I decided to go to an ACA meeting and found out the nearest one is an hour away. But it is on a night when the boys are at soccer with my husband and after I teach my acting class, so I won't feel too self-indulgent <g>!
Thanks, Madeline
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
** And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a
waste of time to do so much inner work.**
The word "self-indulgent" really tripped my alarm bells. So...
Being "indulgent" with people you love can be WONDERFUL. And I so wish
that you will include yourself in the list of people that you love that
deserve to be indulged. OK?
Betsy
PS If that argument doesn't work and you have to be "useful", try
considering the idea that you will have more to give to the world if you
can become your most free, relaxed and fully spiritual self. Doing the
inner work should really help with this. (Can you tell I've been
reading last month's Oprah issue, on "passion"?)
waste of time to do so much inner work.**
The word "self-indulgent" really tripped my alarm bells. So...
Being "indulgent" with people you love can be WONDERFUL. And I so wish
that you will include yourself in the list of people that you love that
deserve to be indulged. OK?
Betsy
PS If that argument doesn't work and you have to be "useful", try
considering the idea that you will have more to give to the world if you
can become your most free, relaxed and fully spiritual self. Doing the
inner work should really help with this. (Can you tell I've been
reading last month's Oprah issue, on "passion"?)
Stepheny Cappel
This is something I have been doing and didn't know how to word it. I'm really glad you are writing things about acoc, because feeling guilty all the time, or wondering if your doing it right because of all the old tapes etc. is really hard. I feel like I'm at home in this one. The other day my mom was harrassing my 9 year old son. I feel like she likes to see him get mad and "disrespect" her to 1) see how I will react or what I will do or 2) she actually enjoys tormenting this child. I do say stop mom and redirect the situation, send F out to play etc. and generally over ride her and she usually leaves in a huff. good who cares LOL . It gets to the point of ridiculous. The other day she actually pinched his nose very hard to the point that his eyes watered. She was giving us a ride some place. How can you have a relationship with a grandma like that? And she used to drink a lot and heavily, sometimes she just was ugly just because or what ever. It makes me so angry that she thinks or I think she thinks that she is picking up where I am lacking. I was just thinking the other day that I am 45 years old and I have issues damn it and they just won't go away. I just have to deal with them. I left home and got married at 16 and yes had my own teddy bear too. And I remember thinking "finally something of my own. That beautiful baby girl that I could love unconditionally and she loved me back very well. Well this turned into a rant. sorry. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
If everyone in the family is smiled at, fed, watered, warm or cool as they
need, their shoes are comfortable, their next project/meeting/visit is on
schedule and they have what they need, there's not so much need for panic and
argument.
<<And I have this problem of thinking it will be self-indulgent and a waste
of time to do so much inner work. I have done some in the past, but not
related to the parental alcoholism. >>
The best trick I did you can do easily (and you probably already are anyway).
When Kirby, as a baby or toddler, would want to do something, my first
thought or reaction was whatever my mom would have said or done. That was kind of
lizard-brain level. The "no" would pop to the top of my choices, and I would
run a quick internal dialog.
"Why not?"
(my mom's lame excuse pops up)
"What if the answer had been yes? What if she had said yes TO ME when I was
little? Would my life have been better? Would my relationship with her have
been better? Wouldn't she even have been happier and been a better mom if
she'd just said YES sometimes?"
So I would do for Kirby what I wished had been done for me. And I would be
doing it simultaneously for baby Kirby AND for baby Sandra.
The way some people take teddy bears with them to self-help groups dealing
with inner child work, I just used the living Kirby Dodd as my "lovey," and as I
parented him, I reparented me.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]