Re:some people should not homeschool
Olga
Sorry I can't find the original source for this topic.
Two things always come to mind when people tell me they could not
homeschool their kids because they would go crazy spending all day
with them(or better yet the: you are a better person than I am):
1. If you can not stand to be with your kids all day, why would you
expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
(She has 30 of them!)
2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
unpleasant that you can not be around them?
Wouldn't it be nice for others to take some time to do some self
reflection about why they could never do this instead of convincing
homeschoolers they are crazy or saints!
Olga :)
Two things always come to mind when people tell me they could not
homeschool their kids because they would go crazy spending all day
with them(or better yet the: you are a better person than I am):
1. If you can not stand to be with your kids all day, why would you
expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
(She has 30 of them!)
2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
unpleasant that you can not be around them?
Wouldn't it be nice for others to take some time to do some self
reflection about why they could never do this instead of convincing
homeschoolers they are crazy or saints!
Olga :)
Carolyn Ashley-Wheeler
Hi Nancy,
I've copied the section I could find.
In response to somebody's comment re. people who couldn't cope with home
schooling, then you're right, they probably wouldn't be on this list, but
the comment was in response to Nancy's posting. Hm, just found the posting:
will go and respond to it directly.
In response to your comments:
Two things always come to mind when people tell me they could not
for people who are so keen on spending time with their children to
understand that, for other people, it's not what they want to do? They enjoy
their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not all kids are unhappy at
school. Some kids love it and would hate to be at home. I know this list is
for home schoolers (we do, home school I mean) and we love it - but I
wouldn't have wanted to do it a few years ago when my career still meant the
world to me - as did my children, but they were happy at school, and I was
happy so changing it wouldn't have brought us anything better - we would
have been unhappy.
anyway). Some children really are revolting at home and lovely at school.
Some people just want to do something other than be directly involved in
facilitating their childrens education. It doesn't make them bad people -
just different to us who choose to do it ourselves.
voices re. home ed. (we've been doing it for almost a year). Only on two
occasions have people made non-positive comments: the first was in a shop in
town, the sales assistant asked if the DD's were having a day off school,
they replied in unison, "No, we do home ed.", the woman looked at me and
said, slightly sarcastically, "What lesson is this then" (we were buying a
present for a friend), I shot back "Economics.", she smiled and shut up; the
second time was a lady at a check out and she so couldn't get her head round
the idea that I just smiled sweetly and thought it's probably better for her
and her child that she doesn't home ed. (my opinion). But other than those
two times everyone has been positive and interested in what we do. Various
people have asked if I'll 'take on' their children as well... I always so
'No thank you' as nicely as possible (and take it as a compliment!).
The bit below is the section from earlier - my comments re. flak jackets etc
are my sense of humour and I aplogise to anyone who doesn't see it that way.
Boy, am I going to get shot to pieces but here goes...
Have you ever stopped to think that, for some people, for a myriad of
reasons, it is actually better that they go to school than stay at home? For
some adults, having children at home all day and everyday, takes more
patience and love and understanding than they have to give. I know of two
mothers who, whilst they love their kids and would defend them to the hilt,
would be in the looney bin by the end of the week and their kids in care if
they weren't in school. And what about the people who have to go out to
work? Public schools aren't all great, some have some very good bits, some
have some very bad bits: a lot just muddle along okay - a bit like the rest
of us.
Slipping quickly into her flak jacket, she signs off and ducks, Carolyn
I've copied the section I could find.
In response to somebody's comment re. people who couldn't cope with home
schooling, then you're right, they probably wouldn't be on this list, but
the comment was in response to Nancy's posting. Hm, just found the posting:
will go and respond to it directly.
In response to your comments:
Two things always come to mind when people tell me they could not
> homeschool their kids because they would go crazy spending all dayDoes it matter? : - )
> with them(or better yet the: you are a better person than I am):
>A teacher chooses to be with x number of children all day. Why is it so hard
> 1. If you can not stand to be with your kids all day, why would you
> expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
> (She has 30 of them!)
>
for people who are so keen on spending time with their children to
understand that, for other people, it's not what they want to do? They enjoy
their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not all kids are unhappy at
school. Some kids love it and would hate to be at home. I know this list is
for home schoolers (we do, home school I mean) and we love it - but I
wouldn't have wanted to do it a few years ago when my career still meant the
world to me - as did my children, but they were happy at school, and I was
happy so changing it wouldn't have brought us anything better - we would
have been unhappy.
> 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them soIt's not a case of turning them into something unpleasant (not all of them
> unpleasant that you can not be around them?
>
anyway). Some children really are revolting at home and lovely at school.
Some people just want to do something other than be directly involved in
facilitating their childrens education. It doesn't make them bad people -
just different to us who choose to do it ourselves.
> Wouldn't it be nice for others to take some time to do some selfMaybe I have this attitude because I haven't come across any dissenting
> reflection about why they could never do this instead of convincing
> homeschoolers they are crazy or saints!
voices re. home ed. (we've been doing it for almost a year). Only on two
occasions have people made non-positive comments: the first was in a shop in
town, the sales assistant asked if the DD's were having a day off school,
they replied in unison, "No, we do home ed.", the woman looked at me and
said, slightly sarcastically, "What lesson is this then" (we were buying a
present for a friend), I shot back "Economics.", she smiled and shut up; the
second time was a lady at a check out and she so couldn't get her head round
the idea that I just smiled sweetly and thought it's probably better for her
and her child that she doesn't home ed. (my opinion). But other than those
two times everyone has been positive and interested in what we do. Various
people have asked if I'll 'take on' their children as well... I always so
'No thank you' as nicely as possible (and take it as a compliment!).
The bit below is the section from earlier - my comments re. flak jackets etc
are my sense of humour and I aplogise to anyone who doesn't see it that way.
Boy, am I going to get shot to pieces but here goes...
Have you ever stopped to think that, for some people, for a myriad of
reasons, it is actually better that they go to school than stay at home? For
some adults, having children at home all day and everyday, takes more
patience and love and understanding than they have to give. I know of two
mothers who, whilst they love their kids and would defend them to the hilt,
would be in the looney bin by the end of the week and their kids in care if
they weren't in school. And what about the people who have to go out to
work? Public schools aren't all great, some have some very good bits, some
have some very bad bits: a lot just muddle along okay - a bit like the rest
of us.
Slipping quickly into her flak jacket, she signs off and ducks, Carolyn
----- Original Message -----
From: <CelticFrau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:24 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] literacy rate??
> Help!! I got in a pissing contest with a lady (probably put my foot in my
> mouth) about homeschooling.
>
> Somewhere (of course I can't remember where now) I read statistics that
said
> the literacy rate was higher before public schools were mandatory in the
> United States, when everyone had to learn by themselves or by teaching
each other.
> Maybe it was test scores??? I can't remember, and can't find the article
> anywhere. Does this sound familiar to anyone? PLEASE email it to me if
you can
> find it.
>
> It's on an adoption board, where she's giving me the "We don't slam
> homeschooling, so just accept that public school is the right choice for
me and my
> family and leave it at that." These kids are having a terrible time in
public
> school, and my intent originally was to just present alternatives. Then I
got
> the whole "socialization" speech, and the whole "It's just not for me, I'd
go
> crazy with my kids home all day" speech. I don't want to be in this
> debate...but I don't just want to drop it...it would seem too much like I
agree that
> public school is OK. :o/
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Olga" <mccluskieo@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:59 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re:some people should not homeschool
> Sorry I can't find the original source for this topic.
>
> Two things always come to mind when people tell me they could not
> homeschool their kids because they would go crazy spending all day
> with them(or better yet the: you are a better person than I am):
>
> 1. If you can not stand to be with your kids all day, why would you
> expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
> (She has 30 of them!)
>
> 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
> unpleasant that you can not be around them?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice for others to take some time to do some self
> reflection about why they could never do this instead of convincing
> homeschoolers they are crazy or saints!
>
> Olga :)
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Judie C. Rall
A teacher chooses to be with x number of children all day. Why is it
so hard for people who are so keen on spending time with their
children to understand that, for other people, it's not what they
want to do? They enjoy their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not
all kids are unhappy at school. Some kids love it and would hate to
be at home. I know this list is for home schoolers (we do, home
school I mean) and we love it - but I wouldn't have wanted to do it a
few years ago when my career still meant the world to me - as did my
children, but they were happy at school, and I was happy so changing
it wouldn't have brought us anything better - we would have been
unhappy.
*******************************************************
Well, just because I myself was a good student and absolutely LOVED
school and everything about it doesn't mean that leaving my kids in
school was the right thing. Could they have continued on in the
school they were in? Probably....they weren't getting bad grades,
except my older son in math, but they were already prepared to give
him some kind of business math course in place of Algebra, so he
could have done OK there. We could have continued on, but I
couldn't in good conscience do it.
No, people who don't homeschool aren't "bad" people, but I myself had
to question why I would want to leave my kids in a system that is
squelching their potential, that is literally designed to keep them
from succeeding, to keep them from being free thinkers and from
breaking out of the mold society wants to place them in. I couldn't
do it.....I had to give them a chance. Even if kids in school get
straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's still
keeping them from reaching their potential.
so hard for people who are so keen on spending time with their
children to understand that, for other people, it's not what they
want to do? They enjoy their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not
all kids are unhappy at school. Some kids love it and would hate to
be at home. I know this list is for home schoolers (we do, home
school I mean) and we love it - but I wouldn't have wanted to do it a
few years ago when my career still meant the world to me - as did my
children, but they were happy at school, and I was happy so changing
it wouldn't have brought us anything better - we would have been
unhappy.
*******************************************************
Well, just because I myself was a good student and absolutely LOVED
school and everything about it doesn't mean that leaving my kids in
school was the right thing. Could they have continued on in the
school they were in? Probably....they weren't getting bad grades,
except my older son in math, but they were already prepared to give
him some kind of business math course in place of Algebra, so he
could have done OK there. We could have continued on, but I
couldn't in good conscience do it.
No, people who don't homeschool aren't "bad" people, but I myself had
to question why I would want to leave my kids in a system that is
squelching their potential, that is literally designed to keep them
from succeeding, to keep them from being free thinkers and from
breaking out of the mold society wants to place them in. I couldn't
do it.....I had to give them a chance. Even if kids in school get
straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's still
keeping them from reaching their potential.
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/10/03 9:00:01 PM, mccluskieo@... writes:
<< 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
unpleasant that you can not be around them? >>
School might have done that.
For each child who is dragged to school crying and screaming (or pushed to
school saying, "NO, mom"), what are the odds that the trauma and seeming
betrayal will damage or destroy the bond between them?
And how much advice is out there to break that bond earlier so the first day
of school won't be so traumatic?
Sandra
<< 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
unpleasant that you can not be around them? >>
School might have done that.
For each child who is dragged to school crying and screaming (or pushed to
school saying, "NO, mom"), what are the odds that the trauma and seeming
betrayal will damage or destroy the bond between them?
And how much advice is out there to break that bond earlier so the first day
of school won't be so traumatic?
Sandra
joanna514
--- In [email protected], "Olga" > Two things
always come to mind when people tell me they could not
ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going to say, "No,
you probably coudn't".
I'd love to see that reaction!
Joanna
always come to mind when people tell me they could not
> homeschool their kids because they would go crazy spending all dayA HS friend of mine just told me that the next time someone says the,
> with them(or better yet the: you are a better person than I am):
>
>
> Olga :)>>\
ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going to say, "No,
you probably coudn't".
I'd love to see that reaction!
Joanna
Sara
"A HS friend of mine just told me that the next time someone says
the, ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going to
say, "No you probably coudn't". I'd love to see that reaction! Joanna"
Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost connection,
the mild contempt, the mind frame here, I feel VERY sorry for the
kids and ache for the person they could be, the special happiness
they are missing, the real love they could feel if the parents didn't
feel this way. I do feel like the majority of people who say this
really mean it and will have always lost a so very important
connection with their child so that when the child does grow up,
contempt for the parents will destroy or severely test the family
bond. Brothers and sisters will not support each other. A general
unhappiness at the parents will develop and later as a grown child
decides to visit home, they might come away with the attitude, "damn,
I'm not going back there for a while!" Will they ever feel the total
unconditional plus this kind of love bond a homeschooled grown child
will likely feel? Maybe, but I don't think so.
I never say much about shame but this is a shame.
the, ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going to
say, "No you probably coudn't". I'd love to see that reaction! Joanna"
Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost connection,
the mild contempt, the mind frame here, I feel VERY sorry for the
kids and ache for the person they could be, the special happiness
they are missing, the real love they could feel if the parents didn't
feel this way. I do feel like the majority of people who say this
really mean it and will have always lost a so very important
connection with their child so that when the child does grow up,
contempt for the parents will destroy or severely test the family
bond. Brothers and sisters will not support each other. A general
unhappiness at the parents will develop and later as a grown child
decides to visit home, they might come away with the attitude, "damn,
I'm not going back there for a while!" Will they ever feel the total
unconditional plus this kind of love bond a homeschooled grown child
will likely feel? Maybe, but I don't think so.
I never say much about shame but this is a shame.
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/10/2003 11:00:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mccluskieo@... writes:
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mccluskieo@... writes:
> 1. If you can not stand to be with your kids all day, why would you**clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap!!!!!***
> expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
> (She has 30 of them!)
>
> 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
> unpleasant that you can not be around them?
>
> Wouldn't it be nice for others to take some time to do some self
> reflection about why they could never do this instead of convincing
> homeschoolers they are crazy or saints!
>
> Olga :)
>
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/03 7:05:06 AM, cheeps4u@... writes:
<< Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost connection,
the mild contempt, the mind frame here, I feel VERY sorry for the
kids and ache for the person they could be, the special happiness
they are missing, the real love they could feel if the parents didn't
feel this way. >>
That's how I feel when people say they're going to unschool except or math,
or except for reading. That's how I feel when people say they're going to
unschool but that doesn't mean their kids aren't still going to do exactly what
they say otherwise, and they're not going to spend their lives playing video
games or watching TV or doing whatever they want.
That's why people have said I was mean sometimes, because I don't say "Ok,
COOL!" when they express how they intend to sabotage their own attempt at
unschooling.
It's sad when people send their kids to school without knowing there's an
option, but at least they have the comfort of having society's backing, the
approval/sympathy of their relatives, the "support" of teachers telling them they
did the right thing, etc. They can blame any failings or unhappiness on the
school. The school will be blaming failings and unhappiness on them. That's
sad.
But I'm not invested in that system any longer, as I once was (not as a mom
with my kids, but with my self, and as a teacher).
What I AM invested in at this stage of life is helping people unschool, if
they want to. And when they claim to want to but say "I'm going to do 70% of
what you folks say I should do to make it work, though I don't think it's really
going to work," I feel two kinds of sad. Sad for their kids, first, and sad
for other if other unschoolers don't say "put down the switch and the rule
book" (figuratively speaking; put down whatever traditional things you're still
holding on to) and do it wholeheartedly and fully."
Sandra
<< Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost connection,
the mild contempt, the mind frame here, I feel VERY sorry for the
kids and ache for the person they could be, the special happiness
they are missing, the real love they could feel if the parents didn't
feel this way. >>
That's how I feel when people say they're going to unschool except or math,
or except for reading. That's how I feel when people say they're going to
unschool but that doesn't mean their kids aren't still going to do exactly what
they say otherwise, and they're not going to spend their lives playing video
games or watching TV or doing whatever they want.
That's why people have said I was mean sometimes, because I don't say "Ok,
COOL!" when they express how they intend to sabotage their own attempt at
unschooling.
It's sad when people send their kids to school without knowing there's an
option, but at least they have the comfort of having society's backing, the
approval/sympathy of their relatives, the "support" of teachers telling them they
did the right thing, etc. They can blame any failings or unhappiness on the
school. The school will be blaming failings and unhappiness on them. That's
sad.
But I'm not invested in that system any longer, as I once was (not as a mom
with my kids, but with my self, and as a teacher).
What I AM invested in at this stage of life is helping people unschool, if
they want to. And when they claim to want to but say "I'm going to do 70% of
what you folks say I should do to make it work, though I don't think it's really
going to work," I feel two kinds of sad. Sad for their kids, first, and sad
for other if other unschoolers don't say "put down the switch and the rule
book" (figuratively speaking; put down whatever traditional things you're still
holding on to) and do it wholeheartedly and fully."
Sandra
Marjorie Kirk
My kids had a neighbor girl they used to play with when we lived in the
Stepford Village who decided she wanted to homeschool too. When she asked
her mother if they could, her mother told her no, because she, the
seven-year-old, would drive her crazy if she was around the house all day.
Besides that, when would her mother be able to go shopping, or to the gym,
or get her nails done if she had to take care of her all of the time? Talk
about screwed up priorites! My heart ached for this little girl. It's one
thing to think these sorts of thoughts, but to say them out loud to a seven
year old is criminal. All of our neighbors seemed to have the attitude that
they wanted the best money could buy for their kids, and they were willing
to work as much as they needed to so their kids could have the very best.
The only thing they didn't have was parents who wanted to spend time with
them!
Marjorie
Stepford Village who decided she wanted to homeschool too. When she asked
her mother if they could, her mother told her no, because she, the
seven-year-old, would drive her crazy if she was around the house all day.
Besides that, when would her mother be able to go shopping, or to the gym,
or get her nails done if she had to take care of her all of the time? Talk
about screwed up priorites! My heart ached for this little girl. It's one
thing to think these sorts of thoughts, but to say them out loud to a seven
year old is criminal. All of our neighbors seemed to have the attitude that
they wanted the best money could buy for their kids, and they were willing
to work as much as they needed to so their kids could have the very best.
The only thing they didn't have was parents who wanted to spend time with
them!
Marjorie
Carolyn Ashley-Wheeler
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Carolyn : - )
Carolyn : - )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re:some people should not homeschool
> A teacher chooses to be with x number of children all day. Why is it
> so hard for people who are so keen on spending time with their
> children to understand that, for other people, it's not what they
> want to do? They enjoy their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not
> all kids are unhappy at school. Some kids love it and would hate to
> be at home. I know this list is for home schoolers (we do, home
> school I mean) and we love it - but I wouldn't have wanted to do it a
> few years ago when my career still meant the world to me - as did my
> children, but they were happy at school, and I was happy so changing
> it wouldn't have brought us anything better - we would have been
> unhappy.
>
> *******************************************************
>
> Well, just because I myself was a good student and absolutely LOVED
> school and everything about it doesn't mean that leaving my kids in
> school was the right thing. Could they have continued on in the
> school they were in? Probably....they weren't getting bad grades,
> except my older son in math, but they were already prepared to give
> him some kind of business math course in place of Algebra, so he
> could have done OK there. We could have continued on, but I
> couldn't in good conscience do it.
>
> No, people who don't homeschool aren't "bad" people, but I myself had
> to question why I would want to leave my kids in a system that is
> squelching their potential, that is literally designed to keep them
> from succeeding, to keep them from being free thinkers and from
> breaking out of the mold society wants to place them in. I couldn't
> do it.....I had to give them a chance. Even if kids in school get
> straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's still
> keeping them from reaching their potential.
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Tia Leschke
>I find that when the people who say this have preschoolers, they just don't
> "A HS friend of mine just told me that the next time someone says
> the, ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going to
> say, "No you probably coudn't". I'd love to see that reaction! Joanna"
>
> Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost connection,
> the mild contempt, the mind frame here
realize that most kids get a lot easier just about the time we ship them off
to school. Having a 5 or 6 year old at home is a lot easier than having a 3
or 4 year old, simply because the child is a bit more mature and less needy
than they were. If their kids are already in school, they're thinking of
how wrangy kids can be after school and during the summer. But those kids
are wrangy *because* of school. They finally have some freedom, but they
don't know what to do with it because they've been told what to do, why to
do it, when to do it, and how to do it so much all day.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
liza sabater
On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Marjorie Kirk wrote:
This is a keeper! It is soooooooooooo the NYC mentality, home of the
"kids as accessories" mentality. I could not have said it better.
Brava!
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> All of our neighbors seemed to have the attitude thatMarjorie,
> they wanted the best money could buy for their kids, and they were
> willing
> to work as much as they needed to so their kids could have the very
> best.
> The only thing they didn't have was parents who wanted to spend time
> with
> them!
>
>
> Marjorie
>
This is a keeper! It is soooooooooooo the NYC mentality, home of the
"kids as accessories" mentality. I could not have said it better.
Brava!
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
Even if kids in school get
their kids, that the academic success didn't make up for the other things
that were bad about it. They say that they learned to look to someone else
for evaluation and approval rather than learning to evaluate what they'd
done themselves, among other things.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
> straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's stillI've heard from some of those straight A students, who are now unschooling
> keeping them from reaching their potential.
their kids, that the academic success didn't make up for the other things
that were bad about it. They say that they learned to look to someone else
for evaluation and approval rather than learning to evaluate what they'd
done themselves, among other things.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Olga
I agree with you there. My nephew just started 1st grade.
Kindergarten was great for him. He loved going and was very
successful. This year started out totally different. He was coming
home with behavior reports and pretty ridiculous comments on his
work which is actually quite good. A different teacher with
different expectations. The whole idea of allowing your child to
get used to one way of doing things and then pull the carpet out
from under him is a whole other issue for me! If I had to have a
new boss every year I am not sure how successful I would be! He
wrote "I am not smart" and stuck it on the door. Talk about a loud
cry for help there.
There is a great book on raising boys from Dr. Micheal Thompson. I
believe it is Raising Cain that has a whole excerpt on the damage
done by forcing boys to go to kindergarten and seperate from their
moms before they are ready. He discussed how society particulary
does not allow for boys to cry and maintain a close monther/son
relationship. We expect them to be "big boys" and how moms are
manipulated to feel they are doing the best for their sons otherwise
they will be "babies" or "whimps", etc.
Anyone with boys might also like his other book which is in question
and answer format so it is an easy read called "Speaking of Boys"
Olga :)
Kindergarten was great for him. He loved going and was very
successful. This year started out totally different. He was coming
home with behavior reports and pretty ridiculous comments on his
work which is actually quite good. A different teacher with
different expectations. The whole idea of allowing your child to
get used to one way of doing things and then pull the carpet out
from under him is a whole other issue for me! If I had to have a
new boss every year I am not sure how successful I would be! He
wrote "I am not smart" and stuck it on the door. Talk about a loud
cry for help there.
There is a great book on raising boys from Dr. Micheal Thompson. I
believe it is Raising Cain that has a whole excerpt on the damage
done by forcing boys to go to kindergarten and seperate from their
moms before they are ready. He discussed how society particulary
does not allow for boys to cry and maintain a close monther/son
relationship. We expect them to be "big boys" and how moms are
manipulated to feel they are doing the best for their sons otherwise
they will be "babies" or "whimps", etc.
Anyone with boys might also like his other book which is in question
and answer format so it is an easy read called "Speaking of Boys"
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/10/03 9:00:01 PM, mccluskieo@b... writes:
>
> << 2. What the heck have you turned them into that makes them so
>
> unpleasant that you can not be around them? >>
>
> School might have done that.
>
> For each child who is dragged to school crying and screaming (or
pushed to
> school saying, "NO, mom"), what are the odds that the trauma and
seeming
> betrayal will damage or destroy the bond between them?
>
> And how much advice is out there to break that bond earlier so the
first day
> of school won't be so traumatic?
>
> Sandra
liza sabater
On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 12:52 PM, Tia Leschke wrote:
people who equaled success with getting as many college degrees as
possible. When people ask me "but what about college", I like to remind
people of Bill Gates :-)
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Yep. That's me. I've said it a few times here. I am also one of those
> Even if kids in school get
> > straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's still
> > keeping them from reaching their potential.
>
> I've heard from some of those straight A students, who are now
> unschooling
> their kids, that the academic success didn't make up for the other
> things
> that were bad about it. They say that they learned to look to someone
> else
> for evaluation and approval rather than learning to evaluate what
> they'd
> done themselves, among other things.
> Tia
> leschke@...
people who equaled success with getting as many college degrees as
possible. When people ask me "but what about college", I like to remind
people of Bill Gates :-)
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
Carolyn,
I certainly agree with some of your comments. However, I was
probably not clear enough with my statement. I was not reffering to
the general population, but to friends and family who I consider
just like me. Others who are perfectly capable of homeschooling and
who would surely be successful. I was not reffering to those who
cannot due to work or budget or those who are probably not really
great parents to begin with. So, I apologize for not being more
clear there :)
I have quite a few friends who think it is really great and love the
idea but their thought process stops there. Why? Because they have
bought so deeply into the idea that they are not capable, they would
go crazy, etc. I feel like there is this acceptable belief in
society that children are meant to drive you crazy and that parents
need to get rid of them into hands that are much more adept at
taking care of them. Have you met the majority of preschool
teachers out there? That is scary, because I worked in training and
accredidation and it amazed me that people believed because someone
held a job in a preschool center they were better equiped to teach
the ABC's. It is kind of the same look you get when you tell people
you want more than 2.2 kids. I think it is sad that many people
would never give this a shot or even read about it because they have
bought into that idea.
some teachers who love their work and are passionate? Sure. Are
there others who suck and need to retire or find a new profession?
Yes. What a child gets varies from year to year. I have my degree
in teaching and have worked with some great and some not so great
people. In 13 years how many great teachers do you think most kids
get? In low income communities, how many good teachers do kids
get?
It's not a case of turning them into something unpleasant (not all
of them
shouldn't. It is all personal preference. However, I think more
people should at least consider the options, read some books, talk
to some people. They don't have to ever choose to do it, but isn't
it nice to know that it is an option. I would never look down on
someone for not choosing to homeschool but I do admit that my
resepct certainly does not increase when someone tells me they do
not want to spend time with their children and are happier to have
someone else do it. That is different than you saying, I loved my
career and wanted to continue with it. That is a choice in
lifestyle but obviously you were very open minded to other avenues.
Olga :)
PS. You don't have to duck and hide, I can handle some criticism.
I mean, hey I spent my whole childhood in school ;)
I certainly agree with some of your comments. However, I was
probably not clear enough with my statement. I was not reffering to
the general population, but to friends and family who I consider
just like me. Others who are perfectly capable of homeschooling and
who would surely be successful. I was not reffering to those who
cannot due to work or budget or those who are probably not really
great parents to begin with. So, I apologize for not being more
clear there :)
I have quite a few friends who think it is really great and love the
idea but their thought process stops there. Why? Because they have
bought so deeply into the idea that they are not capable, they would
go crazy, etc. I feel like there is this acceptable belief in
society that children are meant to drive you crazy and that parents
need to get rid of them into hands that are much more adept at
taking care of them. Have you met the majority of preschool
teachers out there? That is scary, because I worked in training and
accredidation and it amazed me that people believed because someone
held a job in a preschool center they were better equiped to teach
the ABC's. It is kind of the same look you get when you tell people
you want more than 2.2 kids. I think it is sad that many people
would never give this a shot or even read about it because they have
bought into that idea.
>it so hard
> If you do not want to be with your kids all day, why would you
> > expect a teacher to spend all day with them and treat them well?
> > (She has 30 of them!)
> >
> A teacher chooses to be with x number of children all day. Why is
> for people who are so keen on spending time with their children toThey enjoy
> understand that, for other people, it's not what they want to do?
> their jobs, or they enjoy their time out. Not all kids are unhappyat
> school. Some kids love it and would hate to be at home. I knowthis list is
> for home schoolers (we do, home school I mean) and we love it -but I
> wouldn't have wanted to do it a few years ago when my career stillmeant the
> world to me - as did my children, but they were happy at school,and I was
> happy so changing it wouldn't have brought us anything better - wewould
> have been unhappy.Well, that completely depends on the teacher, doesn't it? Are there
>
some teachers who love their work and are passionate? Sure. Are
there others who suck and need to retire or find a new profession?
Yes. What a child gets varies from year to year. I have my degree
in teaching and have worked with some great and some not so great
people. In 13 years how many great teachers do you think most kids
get? In low income communities, how many good teachers do kids
get?
It's not a case of turning them into something unpleasant (not all
of them
> anyway). Some children really are revolting at home and lovely atschool.
> Some people just want to do something other than be directlyinvolved in
> facilitating their childrens education. It doesn't make them badpeople -
> just different to us who choose to do it ourselvesI also agree that if someone does not want to do it, they
shouldn't. It is all personal preference. However, I think more
people should at least consider the options, read some books, talk
to some people. They don't have to ever choose to do it, but isn't
it nice to know that it is an option. I would never look down on
someone for not choosing to homeschool but I do admit that my
resepct certainly does not increase when someone tells me they do
not want to spend time with their children and are happier to have
someone else do it. That is different than you saying, I loved my
career and wanted to continue with it. That is a choice in
lifestyle but obviously you were very open minded to other avenues.
Olga :)
PS. You don't have to duck and hide, I can handle some criticism.
I mean, hey I spent my whole childhood in school ;)
Olga
Joanna,
Oh, I wish I had the nerve! I'll make sure to think it though! <g>
Olga :)
Oh, I wish I had the nerve! I'll make sure to think it though! <g>
Olga :)
>the,
> A HS friend of mine just told me that the next time someone says
> ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going tosay, "No,
> you probably coudn't".
> I'd love to see that reaction!
> Joanna
Olga
<All of our neighbors seemed to have the attitude that
today. So sad, but so true. When I worked with preschools, one
thing that amazed me was some of the "best" preschools with all the
fancy facilities really had little to offer and did not invest in
their staff. Once you saw through the great playground or wood
floors, you would notice there was not really a great selection of
toys or the teacher was really harsh. How many parents spend hours
to come up with the cash to pay these tuitions but never spent those
same hours at the school to see if it was really worth the money?
Olga :)
> they wanted the best money could buy for their kids, and they werewilling
> to work as much as they needed to so their kids could have thevery best.
> The only thing they didn't have was parents who wanted to spendtime with
> them!Isn't that the truth about the screwed up mentality of society
>
>
> Marjorie
today. So sad, but so true. When I worked with preschools, one
thing that amazed me was some of the "best" preschools with all the
fancy facilities really had little to offer and did not invest in
their staff. Once you saw through the great playground or wood
floors, you would notice there was not really a great selection of
toys or the teacher was really harsh. How many parents spend hours
to come up with the cash to pay these tuitions but never spent those
same hours at the school to see if it was really worth the money?
Olga :)
Olga
Tia,
I have been reapeating that same line to everyone lately. We ship
them off to preschool at 3 right when things get easier. Than the
teacher tells you what a pleasant child you have. My 5 yo is not an
issue, it is the 2yo that keeps me on my toes!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], Tia Leschke
<leschke@s...> wrote:
I have been reapeating that same line to everyone lately. We ship
them off to preschool at 3 right when things get easier. Than the
teacher tells you what a pleasant child you have. My 5 yo is not an
issue, it is the 2yo that keeps me on my toes!
Olga :)
--- In [email protected], Tia Leschke
<leschke@s...> wrote:
>says
>
>
> >
> > "A HS friend of mine just told me that the next time someone
> > the, ever popular, "Oh I could never do that" She was going toJoanna"
> > say, "No you probably coudn't". I'd love to see that reaction!
> >connection,
> > Seriously this horrifies when people say this. The lost
> > the mild contempt, the mind frame herejust don't
>
> I find that when the people who say this have preschoolers, they
> realize that most kids get a lot easier just about the time weship them off
> to school. Having a 5 or 6 year old at home is a lot easier thanhaving a 3
> or 4 year old, simply because the child is a bit more mature andless needy
> than they were. If their kids are already in school, they'rethinking of
> how wrangy kids can be after school and during the summer. Butthose kids
> are wrangy *because* of school. They finally have some freedom,but they
> don't know what to do with it because they've been told what todo, why to
> do it, when to do it, and how to do it so much all day.
> Tia
> leschke@s...
>
> "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
> there is no path and leave a trail."
> - Ralph Waldo Emerson
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "Sara" <cheeps4u@y...>
wrote:
I do feel like the majority of people who say this
them, and sad for their kids. Every year here, a local radio station
sponsors a mom's breakfast out to "celebrate" the first day
of "freedom" (when kids go back to school). I just keep thinking, how
does it feel to be that kid?
Is it any wonder that I heard on the radio yesterday they are now
estimating that 1 in 5 American teenagers suffers from depression...
I'd be depressed too if even my own parents didn't want to be around
me.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
wrote:
I do feel like the majority of people who say this
> really mean it and will have always lost a so very importantattitude, "damn,
> connection with their child so that when the child does grow up,
> contempt for the parents will destroy or severely test the family
> bond. Brothers and sisters will not support each other. A general
> unhappiness at the parents will develop and later as a grown child
> decides to visit home, they might come away with the
> I'm not going back there for a while!" Will they ever feel thetotal
> unconditional plus this kind of love bond a homeschooled grownchild
> will likely feel? Maybe, but I don't think so.I agree, I always just feel sad when people say this to me. Sad for
>
> I never say much about shame but this is a shame.
them, and sad for their kids. Every year here, a local radio station
sponsors a mom's breakfast out to "celebrate" the first day
of "freedom" (when kids go back to school). I just keep thinking, how
does it feel to be that kid?
Is it any wonder that I heard on the radio yesterday they are now
estimating that 1 in 5 American teenagers suffers from depression...
I'd be depressed too if even my own parents didn't want to be around
me.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], Tia Leschke
<leschke@s...> wrote:
or number that some almost-stranger assigned to us, based on criteria
designed by even stranger people far, far away. It's a pretty bizarre
way to live your life, no? I remember crying my heart out in college
when I got my first B in a course. Up to that point, I had only ever
gotten A's. The most important thing I never learned in school was
how to fail gracefully and learn from failure. If there's one thing I
can model for my kids, it's that making mistakes is part of life and
part of every learning experience.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<leschke@s...> wrote:
>still
> Even if kids in school get
> > straight A's, that doesn't mean school is good for them. It's
> > keeping them from reaching their potential.unschooling
>
> I've heard from some of those straight A students, who are now
> their kids, that the academic success didn't make up for the otherthings
> that were bad about it. They say that they learned to look tosomeone else
> for evaluation and approval rather than learning to evaluate whatthey'd
> done themselves, among other things.I agree. Also, we learned to put so much value in an arbitrary letter
or number that some almost-stranger assigned to us, based on criteria
designed by even stranger people far, far away. It's a pretty bizarre
way to live your life, no? I remember crying my heart out in college
when I got my first B in a course. Up to that point, I had only ever
gotten A's. The most important thing I never learned in school was
how to fail gracefully and learn from failure. If there's one thing I
can model for my kids, it's that making mistakes is part of life and
part of every learning experience.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
Betsy
**That's how I feel when people say they're going to unschool except or
math, or except for reading. **
OK, I know "unschooling except for math" is an oxymoron, like
"occasional chastity"<g>, or like giving up smoking 6 days out of 7, but
having a pack every Saturday night when you go out with friends.
However, not doing something 90% of the time IS progress in many cases.
(In this analogy, one is still a habitual smoker, but has at least cut
back on the amount of stuff going into their lungs.)
I guess I don't feel "horrified" if people are relaxed homeschoolers who
still have math lessons daily, because, I don't imagine it to be very
unpleasant. (Perhaps because I liked math.) Based on my HS friends'
families, I think living in a gentle family and spending only a small
amount of time in lessons is greatly superior to either living in a mean
family or having attend school, or doing school at home for longer
periods of time. Being "done with lessons" by 10 or 11 am every day
sounds like a pretty nice life to me, but maybe that's only because I
toiled all day in service to the public school as a kid. I dunno. I'm
interested in thrashing this out further in my mind.
Betsy
**What I AM invested in at this stage of life is helping people
unschool, if
they want to. And when they claim to want to but say "I'm going to do
70% of
what you folks say I should do to make it work, though I don't think
it's really
going to work," I feel two kinds of sad. **
I thought your cookie analogy was really good and deserves repeating.
It isn't going to taste the same if you use margarine.
math, or except for reading. **
OK, I know "unschooling except for math" is an oxymoron, like
"occasional chastity"<g>, or like giving up smoking 6 days out of 7, but
having a pack every Saturday night when you go out with friends.
However, not doing something 90% of the time IS progress in many cases.
(In this analogy, one is still a habitual smoker, but has at least cut
back on the amount of stuff going into their lungs.)
I guess I don't feel "horrified" if people are relaxed homeschoolers who
still have math lessons daily, because, I don't imagine it to be very
unpleasant. (Perhaps because I liked math.) Based on my HS friends'
families, I think living in a gentle family and spending only a small
amount of time in lessons is greatly superior to either living in a mean
family or having attend school, or doing school at home for longer
periods of time. Being "done with lessons" by 10 or 11 am every day
sounds like a pretty nice life to me, but maybe that's only because I
toiled all day in service to the public school as a kid. I dunno. I'm
interested in thrashing this out further in my mind.
Betsy
**What I AM invested in at this stage of life is helping people
unschool, if
they want to. And when they claim to want to but say "I'm going to do
70% of
what you folks say I should do to make it work, though I don't think
it's really
going to work," I feel two kinds of sad. **
I thought your cookie analogy was really good and deserves repeating.
It isn't going to taste the same if you use margarine.
Wendy Usher-Peigan
>>Some kids love it and would hate to be at home.But why would anyone be okay with their children hating to be at home? My kids hated it at first too, well my second oldest did, because at home, he is held to a much higher standard of behaviour, while his learning is at his own pace and based on his own desires. He was without the all-knowing Teacher figure telling him when, where, how to sit, walk, talk, stand, read write, learn. No bells to tell him it was time to 'socialize' outside for 15 minutes. He was totally lost for the first year or so.
>>Some children really are revolting at home and lovely at school.I agree, but it doesn't have to be that way and my feeling is that the way children/people behave in *any* situation is a reflection of how they are raised. My children are not perfect, by any stretch, so that's not a judgement on anyone. (Or, I guess it is, but not a "I'm better than you" type judgement).
I have a friend who's son just started Kindergarten. She is constantly praising me on my patience and saintliness (lol). Her son is at school today for his third day in a row and she is marvelling at how well he's doing. I very gently warned her that some kids (my now 6yo, who did a month in public school, included) are very excited and wonderful for the first little while, but after a few weeks, when the novelty wears off, things may hit the fan. I would never tell her school was bad for her child (although I beleive it is), and I would never tell her to pull him out (although I certainly hope she does). She says she could never homeschool as she lacks the patience. She could never homeschool because she doesn't do a lot of reading. She could never homeschool because she needs to go back to work when he goes into Grade One and is full time. Every suggestion...okay argument I make to disprove her theories (?) is met with an "oh, but you're so patient and such a good mom".
I lost my point again...
Wendy
"The sheeplike tendency of human society soon makes inroads on a child's unsophistications, and then popular education completes the dastardly work with its systematic formulas, and away goes the individual, hurtling through space into that hateful oblivion of mediocrity. We are pruned into stumps, one resembling another, without character or grace." --- NC Wyeth, father of Andrew Wyeth, Artist/Painter, who was home educated.
Wendy Usher
PartyLite Consultant
wendy.au@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> I have been reapeating that same line to everyone lately. We shipAnd that pleasant child comes home from school and lets out all the stuff
> them off to preschool at 3 right when things get easier. Than the
> teacher tells you what a pleasant child you have. My 5 yo is not an
> issue, it is the 2yo that keeps me on my toes!
they've been holding in all day in order to not get in trouble. Yuck!
Easier to have them all day
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/2003 11:55:47 AM Central Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
straight A mentality (although I refused to cheap and therefore was only 11th
in my class). Look at me, notice me, approve me!
Oberlin College and years of work helped me to overcome that. But I still
find myself falling into that role with my siblings and parents. Sometimes it's
easier to fall into old roles than forge new ones.
I guess the point is that even if on the outside a student is succeeding, the
school system and mentality is still more likely to be failing her than not.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> I've heard from some of those straight A students, who are now unschoolingYes, yes, yes! That's me waving my hand from the front of the class with my
> their kids, that the academic success didn't make up for the other things
> that were bad about it. They say that they learned to look to someone else
> for evaluation and approval rather than learning to evaluate what they'd
> done themselves, among other things.
>
straight A mentality (although I refused to cheap and therefore was only 11th
in my class). Look at me, notice me, approve me!
Oberlin College and years of work helped me to overcome that. But I still
find myself falling into that role with my siblings and parents. Sometimes it's
easier to fall into old roles than forge new ones.
I guess the point is that even if on the outside a student is succeeding, the
school system and mentality is still more likely to be failing her than not.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/03 11:56:04 AM, mccluskieo@... writes:
<< However, I think more
people should at least consider the options, read some books, talk
to some people. >>
Sometimes I think we shouldn't "advertise" what we do so much, but only help
people who REALLY truly want to do it. Sometimes I wonder if someone who
"tried unschooling and failed" doesn't do more damage to a child's self worth
than one who just left her kids in school.
And the more people there are doing something, the more they seem to expect
others to hold their hands, to walk them through it point by point, and to take
their flak if they can't figure out how to do it.
It's a weird thing, but I've seen it in other groups too. When people KNOW a
group is small, they seem to appreciate the efforts that go into helping
them. When the surface and mass of the group/club/movement are big, some people
think they're at the mall and can sit on a bench filing their nails and the
bustle around them will entertain their kids, or them.
Sandra
<< However, I think more
people should at least consider the options, read some books, talk
to some people. >>
Sometimes I think we shouldn't "advertise" what we do so much, but only help
people who REALLY truly want to do it. Sometimes I wonder if someone who
"tried unschooling and failed" doesn't do more damage to a child's self worth
than one who just left her kids in school.
And the more people there are doing something, the more they seem to expect
others to hold their hands, to walk them through it point by point, and to take
their flak if they can't figure out how to do it.
It's a weird thing, but I've seen it in other groups too. When people KNOW a
group is small, they seem to appreciate the efforts that go into helping
them. When the surface and mass of the group/club/movement are big, some people
think they're at the mall and can sit on a bench filing their nails and the
bustle around them will entertain their kids, or them.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/03 12:16:07 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< I guess I don't feel "horrified" if people are relaxed homeschoolers who
still have math lessons daily, because, I don't imagine it to be very
unpleasant. >>
Whether it's pleasant or unpleasant, it's not going to be the kind of pure,
freeing, life-expanding unschooling they COULD be experiencing if they REALLY
thought their children could learn anything and everything. They live their
doubt.
Sandra
<< I guess I don't feel "horrified" if people are relaxed homeschoolers who
still have math lessons daily, because, I don't imagine it to be very
unpleasant. >>
Whether it's pleasant or unpleasant, it's not going to be the kind of pure,
freeing, life-expanding unschooling they COULD be experiencing if they REALLY
thought their children could learn anything and everything. They live their
doubt.
Sandra
liza sabater
On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 09:01 AM, Sara wrote:
people that I have known for awhile, both as acquaintances and close
friends. I believe they do not know what we mean by my saying "we
homeschool" nor do I believe they understand when I follow with "it is
just an extension of parenting, you know". I have sincerely gotten the
most dumb-founded looks I have ever seen in my life. It's as if I had
told them that all of a sudden I switched to speaking in a foreing
language.
"There has to be more than that!" No not really, I tell them and they
just look at me even more confounded. When I explain to them what
happens in an elementary school classroom --and why, when I decided to
teach long ago I vowed that I could not do it because it really is
insane to try to have 35 7-year old kids sitting silently in their
chairs for 5-6 hours a day-- their disbelief and now anger grows even
stronger.
I truly believe that homeschooling is still a radical reality. The idea
of homeschooling as a valid educational choice has settled in but the
reality of homeschooling is only real to those who do it. It's like the
reality of being gay --yeah, it looks fun on "Will and Grace" but only
those who actually live "the life" know what it really is.
A lot of this really has to do with most people believing that
education is a consumer's choice and not part of a way of life.
Schoolers look at education as a shopping experience. Deschooled
people, on the other hand, look at it as a way of life. We are like Neo
awakened to the reality of the Matrix. Some may say that it is true
only for unschoolers but I really believe that it goes across of the
board, from the left to the right. Stepping out of the mainstream will
make you more aware of it, no matter what your ultimate goal ---hence
the Merovingians in "Reloaded".
That's why, the other day, afte yet another dumbstruck look, I told my
husband, "now I know why a gay person would choose to stay in the
closet. it's just not worth the anger." To which he quipped: "Not gay
in NYC. Gay and black in the middle of Utah".
I apologize to all Utah people. My DH, btw, is a non-black man :-)
I have been really, really thinking about going into the closet. Then
again, I feel it is my civic duty to talk about these things. It's that
spirit of the civil rights movement that my parents instilled in me.
Still, it ain't easy when your out there all by yourself and right now,
that's what our situation is. We are the only "visible" homeschoolers
in our neck of the woods. And this is NYC. It sucks.
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I do feel like the majority of people who say thisI actually feel differently. A lot of the people that tell me this are
> really mean it
people that I have known for awhile, both as acquaintances and close
friends. I believe they do not know what we mean by my saying "we
homeschool" nor do I believe they understand when I follow with "it is
just an extension of parenting, you know". I have sincerely gotten the
most dumb-founded looks I have ever seen in my life. It's as if I had
told them that all of a sudden I switched to speaking in a foreing
language.
"There has to be more than that!" No not really, I tell them and they
just look at me even more confounded. When I explain to them what
happens in an elementary school classroom --and why, when I decided to
teach long ago I vowed that I could not do it because it really is
insane to try to have 35 7-year old kids sitting silently in their
chairs for 5-6 hours a day-- their disbelief and now anger grows even
stronger.
I truly believe that homeschooling is still a radical reality. The idea
of homeschooling as a valid educational choice has settled in but the
reality of homeschooling is only real to those who do it. It's like the
reality of being gay --yeah, it looks fun on "Will and Grace" but only
those who actually live "the life" know what it really is.
A lot of this really has to do with most people believing that
education is a consumer's choice and not part of a way of life.
Schoolers look at education as a shopping experience. Deschooled
people, on the other hand, look at it as a way of life. We are like Neo
awakened to the reality of the Matrix. Some may say that it is true
only for unschoolers but I really believe that it goes across of the
board, from the left to the right. Stepping out of the mainstream will
make you more aware of it, no matter what your ultimate goal ---hence
the Merovingians in "Reloaded".
That's why, the other day, afte yet another dumbstruck look, I told my
husband, "now I know why a gay person would choose to stay in the
closet. it's just not worth the anger." To which he quipped: "Not gay
in NYC. Gay and black in the middle of Utah".
I apologize to all Utah people. My DH, btw, is a non-black man :-)
I have been really, really thinking about going into the closet. Then
again, I feel it is my civic duty to talk about these things. It's that
spirit of the civil rights movement that my parents instilled in me.
Still, it ain't easy when your out there all by yourself and right now,
that's what our situation is. We are the only "visible" homeschoolers
in our neck of the woods. And this is NYC. It sucks.
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/2003 4:10:18 PM Central Standard Time,
listdiva@... writes:
consumer decision as you mentioned. I remember my now 13 year old had a videotaped
interview for PRESCHOOL. And it was oh-so-important so he could get into the
right private school, yada, yada, yada. Even back then I thought it was
absurd. You'd think, with New York being so densely propulated, there would be
more unschoolers around for you. But maybe they are all in the closet. Not
everyone can be so tied to the consumer culture, can they? Did you see Law and
Order last night (I'm sure it was a re-run). It was about a $20000 per year
kindergarden admissions official who was killed.
But here in midwest suburbia, preschool choice is similar. Not a legacy, try
this one. And then there's the public and catholic school split. Most folks
assume I'm a capital C Christian Homeschooler, which is fine by me. Others
who actually know me ask questions but really don't want to know what we do all
day. That's ok too. We are closet unschoolers. When people ask when we do
our lessons, I tell them in the morning. Because I don't feel like explaining
unschooling to a less than receptive audience and because we are not morning
people and would rather not be bothered. It can only get worse once my oldest
"graduates from kindergarden."
I went to pick up a raw milk delivery the other day and the family that hosts
the delivery out of their sidewalk homeschools. I was told the incorrect
time and arrived at 11:30 a.m. She breathlessly explained to me, dry erase
marker in hand, that they homeschool and the children aren't allowed out of the
house until after lunch, so the delivery is usually at 1. Yikes.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
listdiva@... writes:
> We are the only "visible" homeschoolersI know what you mean. Especially in New York, I think, education is a
> in our neck of the woods. And this is NYC. It sucks.
consumer decision as you mentioned. I remember my now 13 year old had a videotaped
interview for PRESCHOOL. And it was oh-so-important so he could get into the
right private school, yada, yada, yada. Even back then I thought it was
absurd. You'd think, with New York being so densely propulated, there would be
more unschoolers around for you. But maybe they are all in the closet. Not
everyone can be so tied to the consumer culture, can they? Did you see Law and
Order last night (I'm sure it was a re-run). It was about a $20000 per year
kindergarden admissions official who was killed.
But here in midwest suburbia, preschool choice is similar. Not a legacy, try
this one. And then there's the public and catholic school split. Most folks
assume I'm a capital C Christian Homeschooler, which is fine by me. Others
who actually know me ask questions but really don't want to know what we do all
day. That's ok too. We are closet unschoolers. When people ask when we do
our lessons, I tell them in the morning. Because I don't feel like explaining
unschooling to a less than receptive audience and because we are not morning
people and would rather not be bothered. It can only get worse once my oldest
"graduates from kindergarden."
I went to pick up a raw milk delivery the other day and the family that hosts
the delivery out of their sidewalk homeschools. I was told the incorrect
time and arrived at 11:30 a.m. She breathlessly explained to me, dry erase
marker in hand, that they homeschool and the children aren't allowed out of the
house until after lunch, so the delivery is usually at 1. Yikes.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
liza sabater
On Thursday, September 11, 2003, at 04:05 PM, ejcrewe@... wrote:
If she were a light-skinned black hair, that would be me, down to the
frizzy hair :-)
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yes, yes, yes! That's me waving my hand from the front of the classSoooooo, what do you think of Hermione (from the Harry Potter books).
> with my
> straight A mentality (although I refused to cheap and therefore was
> only 11th
> in my class). Look at me, notice me, approve me!
If she were a light-skinned black hair, that would be me, down to the
frizzy hair :-)
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://liza.typepad.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]