Pam Hartley

> Are you suggesting that I shouldn't even ASK them to help, either?
> Even if they are free to say no? Because I say, "Would you like to
> help me by cleaning the cat box? and they don't mind saying, "No, I
> wouldn't like to."

Well, it's kind of a silly question if you think about it. :)

What happens if you say instead, "I could really use some help cleaning this
living room, can one of you give me a hand when you get a moment? I'd really
appreciate it."

If you regularly ask in such a way and regularly don't receive any help, I'd
say you need to get the family together for a talk about why they don't feel
any desire to help you, and examine what you may be doing that causes them
to NOT want to help, such as:

1. Nagging
2. Sighing in a put-upon fashion about the mess as you drag yourself
muttering through the clean-up
3. Letting the mess go for awhile and then getting sick of it and leaping to
your feet to suddenly clean and expecting everyone else to leap, too

and get it sorted out. Dr. Phil says, "relationships are managed, not cured"
which means that talking these things out is an ongoing process, not a
one-off problem fixed forever.

My husband and I clean the downstairs of our house every morning. It doesn't
take long, we have a small house. <g> My daughters pick up their own room
now (this is new, like for the past week) every evening. This was by my
request, made kindly with a reasonable explanation about my own busy
schedule vs. falling all over toys in my quest to kiss them good night or
close their window. ;) I asked if they'd be willing to do it, they were.
They asked if it got REALLY messy would I help. I assured them I would. I
also offered to organize their bins of toys by "type" once a week or so,
which they thought was a good idea.

I asked what was a good time of day, and they gave this some serious thought
and came up with 7:30 p.m. I asked if I could remind them if they forgot,
and they said yes. So about half the time they've remembered and about half
the time I've reminded them. One night they said, "Okay, after this show"
and I said fine and it was fine. One night they may say, "We're really
tired" and I will offer to help or do it entirely or find some other
reasonable solution.

If they come to me in a week and say, "We're sick of cleaning our room"
we'll figure out something else. When they get older if they want privacy or
WANT to keep their rooms in 10 inches of clothing, well, it's their room.

What is said isn't as important as how it's said. Figuring out comfortable
ways to live with several other people is NOT always an easy matter. Turning
into a martyr or a dictator are both bad solutions to the problem. Figuring
out ways to work together toward our individual and group goals, without me
asserting that I'm "right" and they're "wrong" because I like the house
neater than my children do is a good starting point.

>
> My older son is 18, when is this desire to help out supposed to kick
> in?

I'd expect these things depend on the child, the family, and the dynamics of
the relationship, as well as the child's own "inner neatness" barometer. I
was a rare slob until I had a house of my own, in spite of chore charts,
rewards, punishments, etc.

If you help him with what he considers important TO HIM (i.e, helping him by
washing his socks doesn't count unless he's a sock fanatic who cannot
achieve pristine whiteness on his own and is therefore truly grateful to
you) will cause him to want to help you with what is important TO YOU. Going
out of your way to aid him in his pursuits is more likely to cause him to
want to go out of HIS way to aid you in yours, including cleaning the cat
box.

Karma: What goes around comes around.
The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Physics: For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction.

It's all the same.

Pam

psoroosh

If they come to me in a week and say, "We're sick of cleaning our
room"
we'll figure out something else. When they get older if they want
privacy or
WANT to keep their rooms in 10 inches of clothing, well, it's their
room.>>

I WANT my house to be spotless and orderly and everything always put
away and all the surfaces cleaned off so I have plenty of room to do
whatever I want, etc.

I apparently don't want it ENOUGH to make it happen, though.

--pam