Delinquent grandson
DW
Hi!
I have a friend who has custody of her 3 grandchildren. She has had each of them since birth. Anyway, she is very critical of unschooling because she did that with her oldest grandson. He is 18 and has a long rap sheet now and I am not talking music. He is currently on probation. I like my friend a lot, but she is constantly telling me that unschooling is a big mistake. She uses Abeka now with her other grandchildren (13 and 15 years old ).
My friend doesn't have the internet or otherwise she would sign up to ask herself. But she would like to ask you all what you think went wrong. She provided resources every time her grandson showed any interest in something or requested something. She said he never followed through on anything. He was never interested in learning much. Every now and then he would like to trace race cars. He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the Internet, go hang out and drink, smoke pot with friends.
She said his current interests are smoking cigarettes and pot, hanging out with other delinquents, and listening to rap music. The kid doesn't want to do school, go to school, or get a job. She is at a total loss as to what she should do, except he will probably end up in jail because of probation violations.
I don't know what to tell her...I know 99.9% of unschooling kids don't end up like her grandson. But she says that the psychologist told her that her grandson never had the structure and discipline he needed. He said he should have stayed in school or have been required to do school at home. He said he thought he was one spoiled rotten kid who never had any limits. I asked her what that was suppose to mean and she said spankings, taking things away, grounding, etc.
She feels that she sacrificed her grandson for her flirtation with unschooling. The other two kids are well-adjusted and seem to actually like doing Abeka. I am not sure what the deal is with the grandson. What do you all think? How would you advise her to go from here?
Thanks,
Deana
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I have a friend who has custody of her 3 grandchildren. She has had each of them since birth. Anyway, she is very critical of unschooling because she did that with her oldest grandson. He is 18 and has a long rap sheet now and I am not talking music. He is currently on probation. I like my friend a lot, but she is constantly telling me that unschooling is a big mistake. She uses Abeka now with her other grandchildren (13 and 15 years old ).
My friend doesn't have the internet or otherwise she would sign up to ask herself. But she would like to ask you all what you think went wrong. She provided resources every time her grandson showed any interest in something or requested something. She said he never followed through on anything. He was never interested in learning much. Every now and then he would like to trace race cars. He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the Internet, go hang out and drink, smoke pot with friends.
She said his current interests are smoking cigarettes and pot, hanging out with other delinquents, and listening to rap music. The kid doesn't want to do school, go to school, or get a job. She is at a total loss as to what she should do, except he will probably end up in jail because of probation violations.
I don't know what to tell her...I know 99.9% of unschooling kids don't end up like her grandson. But she says that the psychologist told her that her grandson never had the structure and discipline he needed. He said he should have stayed in school or have been required to do school at home. He said he thought he was one spoiled rotten kid who never had any limits. I asked her what that was suppose to mean and she said spankings, taking things away, grounding, etc.
She feels that she sacrificed her grandson for her flirtation with unschooling. The other two kids are well-adjusted and seem to actually like doing Abeka. I am not sure what the deal is with the grandson. What do you all think? How would you advise her to go from here?
Thanks,
Deana
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On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:56:26 -0700 (PDT) DW <schorsewoman@...>
writes:
parents when they're interested in something, because the parent then
goes and gets a stack of books from the library, and starts circling PBS
shows, and suggesting related projects... and the kid may have just been
observing that daddy long legs have two knees, isn't that cool? without
wanting to go any further. Sometimes, it starts to feel like a lot of
pressure. Sometimes, the best answer is something more low-key.
felt like he was expected to "follow through" and do a sort of unit-study
on whatever topic he was interested in, even if that wasn't what he
wanted to do. It's hard to get interested i thinsg when you feel it will
later be used against you.
didn't define it as such.
What was grandma doing, and learning? What was she modeling about
learning? What cool things were going on in the family that he was
invited to participate in? Was he treated as a functioning member of the
family, as someone who was competent? Was his input valued?
Is he happy with his life now?
Unschooling isn't just letting your kids do whatever they want - kids
live in a family, a community, and a society, and their decisions have
repurcussions in all of these areas. If my kid choses not to shower and
really smells bad, I may chose not to drive her anywhere because I don't
like being in an enclosed space with that kind of smell. I won't drive
someone who smokes, either, because I don't like the smell. I'm not sure
how this kid is getting money for cigs, pot, alcohol, and all that, but I
wouldn't be handing out money for those things. If he choses to drink
(at 18) o smoke pit, he may be arrested and do time. Those are limits,
but they're not artificial or manipulative, they're just honest.
As far as what to do now, I think she should discuss her further
participation (on any level, including financial) with these activities
for her grandson, and point out that if he's living there as a family
member, he should be acting like one. In return, she needs to start
acting like an unschooling parent - watch some tv shows with him, talk
about race cars he traces, invite him to her activities, invite some
interesting people over... open his world up a bit, without pressure.
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> My friend doesn't have the internet or otherwise she would sign upThat could be good or bad. I know kids who become reluctant to tell their
> to ask herself. But she would like to ask you all what you think
> went wrong. She provided resources every time her grandson showed
> any interest in something or requested something.
parents when they're interested in something, because the parent then
goes and gets a stack of books from the library, and starts circling PBS
shows, and suggesting related projects... and the kid may have just been
observing that daddy long legs have two knees, isn't that cool? without
wanting to go any further. Sometimes, it starts to feel like a lot of
pressure. Sometimes, the best answer is something more low-key.
>She said he neverWas that okay? That makes me think of the above situation again - that he
> followed through on anything.
felt like he was expected to "follow through" and do a sort of unit-study
on whatever topic he was interested in, even if that wasn't what he
wanted to do. It's hard to get interested i thinsg when you feel it will
later be used against you.
>He was never interested in learningOr what he was doing didn't look like "learning" to his grandma, so she
> much.
didn't define it as such.
What was grandma doing, and learning? What was she modeling about
learning? What cool things were going on in the family that he was
invited to participate in? Was he treated as a functioning member of the
family, as someone who was competent? Was his input valued?
Is he happy with his life now?
Unschooling isn't just letting your kids do whatever they want - kids
live in a family, a community, and a society, and their decisions have
repurcussions in all of these areas. If my kid choses not to shower and
really smells bad, I may chose not to drive her anywhere because I don't
like being in an enclosed space with that kind of smell. I won't drive
someone who smokes, either, because I don't like the smell. I'm not sure
how this kid is getting money for cigs, pot, alcohol, and all that, but I
wouldn't be handing out money for those things. If he choses to drink
(at 18) o smoke pit, he may be arrested and do time. Those are limits,
but they're not artificial or manipulative, they're just honest.
As far as what to do now, I think she should discuss her further
participation (on any level, including financial) with these activities
for her grandson, and point out that if he's living there as a family
member, he should be acting like one. In return, she needs to start
acting like an unschooling parent - watch some tv shows with him, talk
about race cars he traces, invite him to her activities, invite some
interesting people over... open his world up a bit, without pressure.
Dar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-Anyway, she is very critical of unschooling because she did that with her
oldest grandson. He is 18-=-
-=- But she says that the psychologist told her that her grandson never had
the structure and discipline he needed. He said he should have stayed in
school-=-
How long was he in school?
How did she learn about unschooling? Did she keep in contact with others
while she was doing it? (Like online, or meetings? Did she read Growing Without
Schooling, while it was published?)
-=-She feels that she sacrificed her grandson for her flirtation with
unschooling. -=-
Perhaps she only had a flirtation with unschooling, instead of loving it
enough to marry it. I'm serious. It's a commitment.
-=- He was never interested in learning much. Every now and then he would
like to trace race cars. He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the
Internet, go hang out and drink, smoke pot with friends.-=-
Back to the "how long was he in school" question.
That's what she said HE did.
What did SHE do?
How old were the other kids?
How did she feel about the boy's mother?
-=-I have a friend who has custody of her 3 grandchildren. She has had each
of them since birth. -=-
Were they siblings? Was she taking each at birth as they popped out? Popped
out of whom? WHY was the mother not keeping them?
How did she mother her own children?
What are the genetics?
Did she raise/bear an irresponsible child who became pregnant by another
irresponsible person who didn't stick around to raise his own children? If not,
what's more to the story?
There are genetic factors to consider, and psychological factors (attitude of
the grandmother in the whole situation which would create the nest in which
the child grew--was it judgmental? resentful? martyrly?), and nurturing factors.
It is possible that the grandmother is not a good candidate for unschooling
for various reasons.
It's possible she's not a match for one or more grandchildren, emotionally.
It's possible that without the mothering instinct she would have gained
biologically by being the birth mother (hormonal advantage) it's difficult in her
situation.
Sandra
oldest grandson. He is 18-=-
-=- But she says that the psychologist told her that her grandson never had
the structure and discipline he needed. He said he should have stayed in
school-=-
How long was he in school?
How did she learn about unschooling? Did she keep in contact with others
while she was doing it? (Like online, or meetings? Did she read Growing Without
Schooling, while it was published?)
-=-She feels that she sacrificed her grandson for her flirtation with
unschooling. -=-
Perhaps she only had a flirtation with unschooling, instead of loving it
enough to marry it. I'm serious. It's a commitment.
-=- He was never interested in learning much. Every now and then he would
like to trace race cars. He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the
Internet, go hang out and drink, smoke pot with friends.-=-
Back to the "how long was he in school" question.
That's what she said HE did.
What did SHE do?
How old were the other kids?
How did she feel about the boy's mother?
-=-I have a friend who has custody of her 3 grandchildren. She has had each
of them since birth. -=-
Were they siblings? Was she taking each at birth as they popped out? Popped
out of whom? WHY was the mother not keeping them?
How did she mother her own children?
What are the genetics?
Did she raise/bear an irresponsible child who became pregnant by another
irresponsible person who didn't stick around to raise his own children? If not,
what's more to the story?
There are genetic factors to consider, and psychological factors (attitude of
the grandmother in the whole situation which would create the nest in which
the child grew--was it judgmental? resentful? martyrly?), and nurturing factors.
It is possible that the grandmother is not a good candidate for unschooling
for various reasons.
It's possible she's not a match for one or more grandchildren, emotionally.
It's possible that without the mothering instinct she would have gained
biologically by being the birth mother (hormonal advantage) it's difficult in her
situation.
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 8/29/03 10:56 PM, DW at schorsewoman@... wrote:
because of problems?
It sounds like he was left to go it alone.
Unschooling is about walking along beside them as they explore the world.
It's about being there for them and knowing when to be with them and when to
give them their space.
And I think it helps if the parent is practicing natural learning herself by
being fascinated by the world and exploring it herself.
There's so little to go on, but his behavior is saying abandonment to me.
Maybe there was like a wall around him (from school? which is a big
abandonment for many kids who desperately want to be home). (And sounds like
there still is a wall around him.) What is there on the other side of the
wall for him? Is it criticism or unconditional love? If it's criticism,
there isn't a reason to come out from behind it.
Has she read Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira
Kirshenbaum. I think that book would help her see a lot of what went wrong.
There's still time for him!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452266165/qid=1062234002/sr=8
-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-0479715-4193717?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Joyce
> But she would like to ask you all what you think went wrong. She providedHow old was he when she started unschooling? Was he pulled out of school
> resources every time her grandson showed any interest in something or
> requested something. She said he never followed through on anything. He was
> never interested in learning much. Every now and then he would like to trace
> race cars. He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the Internet, go hang
> out and drink, smoke pot with friends.
because of problems?
It sounds like he was left to go it alone.
Unschooling is about walking along beside them as they explore the world.
It's about being there for them and knowing when to be with them and when to
give them their space.
And I think it helps if the parent is practicing natural learning herself by
being fascinated by the world and exploring it herself.
There's so little to go on, but his behavior is saying abandonment to me.
Maybe there was like a wall around him (from school? which is a big
abandonment for many kids who desperately want to be home). (And sounds like
there still is a wall around him.) What is there on the other side of the
wall for him? Is it criticism or unconditional love? If it's criticism,
there isn't a reason to come out from behind it.
Has she read Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira
Kirshenbaum. I think that book would help her see a lot of what went wrong.
There's still time for him!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452266165/qid=1062234002/sr=8
-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-0479715-4193717?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Joyce
DW
>How old was he when she started unschooling? Was he pulled out ofI think he was in 6th grade.
>school because of problems?
>It sounds like he was left to go it alone.I didn't know her then, so I can't say what the deal was. But I know her first year she asked the kids what they wanted to do and supposedly they told her they wanted to read the Little House books and learn all about pioneer living. Supposedly, they did hands-on, child-led stuff. Maybe it has all been exaggerated how child-led.
>Unschooling is about walking along beside them as they explore theI don't know how much of this she did. She has so much anger about it all that I can't figure it out.
>world. It's about being there for them and knowing when to be with them and
>when to give them their space.
>And I think it helps if the parent is practicing natural learning herself byWell, now I will say that she does this. She is always reading...doing new things. She is an active person.
>being fascinated by the world and exploring it herself.
>There's so little to go on, but his behavior is saying abandonment toHis mother and father were into drugs and alcohol at the time. They had this kid and were living with her. They left and left her with the kid. Next thing you know the woman is pregnant again...they move back in...leaves her child #2........same thing for child #3.
>me.
She made them sign custody over to her because she didn't trust them to care for them.
Now the dad lives 2 doors down the street. He seldom interacts with the kids. He gives them $100 for birthdays and Christmas. He comes in and says hello to them when he is there to ask his mother something. But the hello is more like a hello reserved for a cousin. He is remarried. He has a stepson who lives with him and his wife. The wife is afraid to leave her house, so she is home every day. She won't leave to go shopping or to the doctor. She doesn't particularly care for the 18 year old because of his foul language, smokes cigarettes constantly, etc.
The mother is remarried. She lives in a very nice house. She flits in and out with the two younger ones. But she doesn't want to deal with any of the 18 year old's problems. She wears a necklace that has three children on it...sends out Christmas cards with her husband and 3 children's photo...like they are all one family.
Neither parent pays support of any kind. But my friend has never required anything. I think she is afraid the mother will take the kids back...well, she'd never take the 18 yo. I doubt if she would really take the younger two either. He husband doesn't seem like he likes kids. Plus they vacation all the time and kids would cut into that. They left for Disney yesterday, but didn't take the kids with them.
>Maybe there was like a wall around him (from school? which is a bigI think he has a lot of issues about being abandoned. My friend has had him in therapy for years, but it hasn't helped...probably because the situation never really changed. My friend said there was nothing she could do to change the parents at this point.
>abandonment for many kids who desperately want to be home). (And sounds
>like there still is a wall around him.) What is there on the other side of
>the wall for him? Is it criticism or unconditional love? If it's criticism,
>there isn't a reason to come out from behind it.
>Has she read Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach byI will recommend it to her.
>Mira Kirshenbaum. I think that book would help her see a lot of what went
>wrong.
>There's still time for him!That is what I told her. That he is only 18 and she shouldn't give up on him.
>How did she learn about unschooling? Did she keep in contact withNo. I think she just let him do whatever and said this is what unschooling is. She said she never saw him do anything other than smoke cigarettes (she buys...the psychiatrist told her that she should), listen to rap, and hang out with other delinquents in the neighborhood. She claims she didn't coerce him. He never developed interests. Just drawing race cars once in awhile.
>others while she was doing it? (Like online, or meetings? Did she read
>Growing Without Schooling, while it was published?)
>Perhaps she only had a flirtation with unschooling, instead of lovingYou raise a good point. I don't think she was committed to it. I think it was convenient for her to say she was unschooling. It was a way of not having to be responsible for what was going on perhaps?
>it enough to marry it. I'm serious. It's a commitment.
>Back to the "how long was he in school" question.Up until 6th grade, but he was always in trouble in school. He stole her car at 12.
>That's what she said HE did.She claims she got them resources when they asked. She claims she didn't go overboard. But her 15 yo grandson plays mostly computer games and has the Xbox, Nintendo, Game Cube, and GBA. She thinks she is doing what is right by letting him to what he wants. Except now she is on the "You are in 10th grade so you have to do Abeka now because we only have 3 years left of hsing."
>What did SHE do?
How old were the other kids?
The other kids finished 3rd and 5th and then came home.
>How did she feel about the boy's mother?She doesn't particularly like her, but she gets along with her. She isn't negative. Lets the kids go with the mother whenever she wants them. Though the kids don't always want to go, so the choice is theirs when and for how long. The father never comes and gets them. Never.
>Were they siblings? Was she taking each at birth as they popped out?YES! They also have a half-brother, but the boy has a different mother. The mother has custody of him, but she drops him off at my friend's every weekend and school vacation. My friend isn't happy about it but says if she didn't then the kid would be home with his 15 yo sister.
>Popped out of whom? WHY was the mother not keeping them?Mother didn't want them.
>How did she mother her own children?This is the biggest clue to me. My friend is the nicest person. But if we talk about her mothering skills, well, I think there are problems. She has 3 children. Son #1 is the one with all these kids who now live with her. She claims he had ADHD and that he was no academic in school. But she says he was respectful, didn't cuss her out like the 18 yo, never got arrested or anything like that. He has had drug problems in the past, but I think he is clean now. Seems to be anyway. Doesn't get into trouble. Has his own small business. But detached from his kids.
Son #2 is married with 3 kids. He has had problems with cocaine addictions in the past. Is supposedly clean now. He has a regular job, sings in the church choir. He and his wife work and leave their kids with her at least 3 days a week. She takes them because she doesn't want them to go to daycare. But it seems obvious to me that they are using her for free babysitting because they have no respect for her schedule, don't pay her, just drops them off and come back whenever, etc.
Only daughter-- was married for a short period of time and came home. She is remarried and has no children. Doesn't want children. Has a decent job. Likes the grandkids.
She has a panic disorder like her mother.
>What are the genetics?YES.
>Did she raise/bear an irresponsible child who became pregnant by
>another irresponsible person who didn't stick around to raise his own children?
>There are genetic factors to consider, and psychological factorsThe grandmother will not let any of her children or grandchildren take consequences. She bails them out every time. She has an excuse why this time she has to bail them out.
>(attitude of the grandmother in the whole situation which would create the nest in
>which the child grew--was it judgmental? resentful? martyrly?), and nurturing
>factors.
But now the 18 yo has such a long rap sheet that the day is coming when she won't be able to do that. She says she doesn't care what happens to him but she does. She falls apart every time he is arrested or is in an accident due to drunk driving. The 18 is the teflon kid. He has never had to serve any time.
I wanted her to put him in a drug and alcohol rehab program. But she said that would be not be very unschooling and too coercive. She said she wasn't making him do anything he didn't want to do. Also, she won't turn him in for drug or probation violations. She said they have to catch him. She isn't going to be the one to turn him in because he will blame her the rest of his life.
The 18 yo does blame her for everything. When he rages, which is quite frequently, it is against her. Her husband is quiet. He doesn't let the 18 take consequences either, but he always tells me that it is because his wife won't let him do anything.
I worry about the 2 younger children who are always having to live amidst this emotionally charged atmosphere.
The situation is a mess and seems to keep getting worse each year. I get tired of the drama, but I do like my friend. It is just hard now to have unschooling come between us.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
Deana
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***I have a friend who has custody of her 3 grandchildren. She has had
each of them since birth.***
Why? Why has she had custody of her grand children since birth?
Because in the why there might be a world of information about what went
wrong.
***But she would like to ask you all what you think went wrong.***
*** he never followed through on anything.***
*** He was never interested in learning much. ***
***He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the Internet, go hang out
and drink, smoke pot with friends.***
***other delinquents,***
We can't know how she lived with her grandson but if, in retrospect she's
only critical of his choices and his failures and not her own role, I
suspect she was also critical of him as he was growing up.
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma.
Deb L
each of them since birth.***
Why? Why has she had custody of her grand children since birth?
Because in the why there might be a world of information about what went
wrong.
***But she would like to ask you all what you think went wrong.***
*** he never followed through on anything.***
*** He was never interested in learning much. ***
***He wanted to watch TV, surf porno sites on the Internet, go hang out
and drink, smoke pot with friends.***
***other delinquents,***
We can't know how she lived with her grandson but if, in retrospect she's
only critical of his choices and his failures and not her own role, I
suspect she was also critical of him as he was growing up.
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/30/2003 7:57:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
schorsewoman@... writes:
No. I think she just let him do whatever and said this is what unschooling
is. <<<
OK. So we know she wasn't unschooling. She was simply neglectful---of her own
children and now her grandchildren. Sounds as if she's blaming her bad
parenting skills and her children's bad parenting skills on unschooling------and she
wasn't even unschooling.
I think she needs to drop the "unschooling is bad/doesn't work" and realize
that genetics and bad parenting and school all made an impact---an awful one.
~Kelly.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
schorsewoman@... writes:
No. I think she just let him do whatever and said this is what unschooling
is. <<<
OK. So we know she wasn't unschooling. She was simply neglectful---of her own
children and now her grandchildren. Sounds as if she's blaming her bad
parenting skills and her children's bad parenting skills on unschooling------and she
wasn't even unschooling.
I think she needs to drop the "unschooling is bad/doesn't work" and realize
that genetics and bad parenting and school all made an impact---an awful one.
~Kelly.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/30/2003 8:13:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ddzimlew@... writes:
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma. <<<
Bingo!
I've been hearing a lot of this talk lately around my house. MANY of
Cameron's friends are SOOOO miserable at home and at school that the other
pot-smoking/hard-drinking delinquents are MUCH more attractive than their own families.
And some of these same kids---knowing full-well that they are welcome
here---are having a hard time accepting the life Cameron gets to lead. It's hard to
be here on the weekends and have to go back to school and creepy families. It
makes their lives look THAT much worse! Two showed up here last night after
11:00 with no place to go. They're just now stirring. They are good, sweet kids
with parents who have forgotten what it was like to be 15/16 years old. They
don't feel welcome or understood in their own homes---and certainly not in
SCHOOL!
When what *should* be your haven is not welcoming or understanding, where
else can/do you go? You pal around others with the same crappy lives---at least
you're a "family"; you've created your own "family".
I can see why a group of delinquents would be more attractive than a critical
family. That's easy!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ddzimlew@... writes:
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma. <<<
Bingo!
I've been hearing a lot of this talk lately around my house. MANY of
Cameron's friends are SOOOO miserable at home and at school that the other
pot-smoking/hard-drinking delinquents are MUCH more attractive than their own families.
And some of these same kids---knowing full-well that they are welcome
here---are having a hard time accepting the life Cameron gets to lead. It's hard to
be here on the weekends and have to go back to school and creepy families. It
makes their lives look THAT much worse! Two showed up here last night after
11:00 with no place to go. They're just now stirring. They are good, sweet kids
with parents who have forgotten what it was like to be 15/16 years old. They
don't feel welcome or understood in their own homes---and certainly not in
SCHOOL!
When what *should* be your haven is not welcoming or understanding, where
else can/do you go? You pal around others with the same crappy lives---at least
you're a "family"; you've created your own "family".
I can see why a group of delinquents would be more attractive than a critical
family. That's easy!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim and Maureen
There was this neighbour kid when we were teens. His parents were extreme workaholics and when he brought home a woodshop class lamp he made, they were critical that it was ugly etc.
He was hanging out with my brother at the time and came over with his lamp, saddened like I've never seen saddened.
He offered it to my mom. She made a fuss about giving it to his own parents and the whole story spilled out. Of course Mom accepted it.
He became one of our town's biggest pot-heads. Go figure!
PS. Now nearing 40, he and my sister are an item :O)) No, don't think he's smokin' still.
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma. <<<
Bingo!
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He was hanging out with my brother at the time and came over with his lamp, saddened like I've never seen saddened.
He offered it to my mom. She made a fuss about giving it to his own parents and the whole story spilled out. Of course Mom accepted it.
He became one of our town's biggest pot-heads. Go figure!
PS. Now nearing 40, he and my sister are an item :O)) No, don't think he's smokin' still.
Maybe pot smoking delinquents are preferable to a critical grandma. <<<
Bingo!
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momto4squirts
This is so sad. I don't think it has anything to do with
unschooling.
If I was this 18 year old I'd be mad as hell, too. He rages against
the grandma because she's the only one he can rage to. He's been
abandoned, discarded, thrown away by his parents. Why? Wasn't he
good enough? What did he do? There are so many reasons he feels
hurt, angry, worthless. Why not smoke pot & throw his life away?
Has your friend thought about seeking a different counselor for this
family? I find it astonishing that the expert found lack of
structure to be the main problem. I don't think so.
Not only can the 18 year old use the help, but the younger kids and
your friend needs it for her own anger. The younger ones may be
following in his footsteps before long because of all these horrible
issues. Its not a lack of structure. Its not unschooling. Its hurt
by the people who are supposed to always love you no matter what.
Dev
unschooling.
If I was this 18 year old I'd be mad as hell, too. He rages against
the grandma because she's the only one he can rage to. He's been
abandoned, discarded, thrown away by his parents. Why? Wasn't he
good enough? What did he do? There are so many reasons he feels
hurt, angry, worthless. Why not smoke pot & throw his life away?
Has your friend thought about seeking a different counselor for this
family? I find it astonishing that the expert found lack of
structure to be the main problem. I don't think so.
Not only can the 18 year old use the help, but the younger kids and
your friend needs it for her own anger. The younger ones may be
following in his footsteps before long because of all these horrible
issues. Its not a lack of structure. Its not unschooling. Its hurt
by the people who are supposed to always love you no matter what.
Dev
[email protected]
tmthomas@... writes:
old, I might've seen it a million times, but when I sit down to watch it all the
way thru like I did, I always cry at the end.
One of the lyrics is "the boy was something that Mommy wouldn't wear". Kids
know that it's not the lamp that's not "good enough". Thank your Mom for me
that she loved and appreciated that lamp, AND him.
~Aimee
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> There was this neighbour kid when we were teens. His parents were extremeI just saw the Pearl Jam "Jeremy" video the other nite. Might be 10 years
> workaholics and when he brought home a woodshop class lamp he made, they were
> critical that it was ugly etc.
old, I might've seen it a million times, but when I sit down to watch it all the
way thru like I did, I always cry at the end.
One of the lyrics is "the boy was something that Mommy wouldn't wear". Kids
know that it's not the lamp that's not "good enough". Thank your Mom for me
that she loved and appreciated that lamp, AND him.
~Aimee
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[email protected]
AimeeL73@... writes:
video....
The chorus is "Jeremy spoke in class today" and the video ends with him
shooting himself in front of his whole class at school.
I never thought about it directly, but seeing that before my son was even a
twinkle in my eye planted at LEAST one of the seeds of homeschooling.
~Aimee
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> I just saw the Pearl Jam "Jeremy" video the other nite.Sorry, for those who have NO IDEA what song this is, or ever seen the
video....
The chorus is "Jeremy spoke in class today" and the video ends with him
shooting himself in front of his whole class at school.
I never thought about it directly, but seeing that before my son was even a
twinkle in my eye planted at LEAST one of the seeds of homeschooling.
~Aimee
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glad2bmadly
Several years ago I decided one day to look up unschooling online (didn't find this list unfortunately) for the first time and was reading an article about it by a woman named Jan Hunt (?), with my TV on in the background. Right as I finished the article, the Columbine news exploded into everyone's world. Amazing timing. Kind of sealed the deal for hschooling for me, (though I did subsequently lend my John Holt book away, lose my nerve and send my son to school for a yr! ) I'll never forget the contrast between what I was reading and the horror of that day's news. I can't imagine how I ever could have been sucked away from the inner conviction I came to in the sadness of that day. I need support to stay conscious I guess. Glad I found this list.
Do they still show music videos somewhere? I thought it was all programs now on MTV and VH1. I would love to find a Train video!
Madeline
AimeeL73@... wrote:
AimeeL73@... writes:
video....
The chorus is "Jeremy spoke in class today" and the video ends with him
shooting himself in front of his whole class at school.
I never thought about it directly, but seeing that before my son was even a
twinkle in my eye planted at LEAST one of the seeds of homeschooling.
~Aimee
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Do they still show music videos somewhere? I thought it was all programs now on MTV and VH1. I would love to find a Train video!
Madeline
AimeeL73@... wrote:
AimeeL73@... writes:
> I just saw the Pearl Jam "Jeremy" video the other nite.Sorry, for those who have NO IDEA what song this is, or ever seen the
video....
The chorus is "Jeremy spoke in class today" and the video ends with him
shooting himself in front of his whole class at school.
I never thought about it directly, but seeing that before my son was even a
twinkle in my eye planted at LEAST one of the seeds of homeschooling.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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