spelling
Brown
Bridget wrote:
discussion going on at the moment as to whether 'corrupt' american spellings
should be accepted in schools and in national examinations. The reason this has
arisen is because, so they say, kids are being exposed to the 'corrupt' spellings
through spending so much time on the internet!
So keep on spelling it 'colour' Bridget - so Michelle and Brooke and I can see
the corruption working in reverse!
Carol
in New Zealand
> I always spelled color colour in school andAs Michelle said, here in NZ the correct spelling is 'colour', but there is a
> got it marked wrong but i thought it was prettier!
discussion going on at the moment as to whether 'corrupt' american spellings
should be accepted in schools and in national examinations. The reason this has
arisen is because, so they say, kids are being exposed to the 'corrupt' spellings
through spending so much time on the internet!
So keep on spelling it 'colour' Bridget - so Michelle and Brooke and I can see
the corruption working in reverse!
Carol
in New Zealand
meghan anderson
<<<<lol... now *that* writing looks like my child#2's
attempts at written communication! yikes...Which is
why I'm convinced that, much as we'd like to hope,
spell checkers and calculators can't do it all. There
are some basic skills that are helpful in knowing
(spelling, adding & subtracting) to name a few. My
oldest was 'taught' these things by me. My youngest
has not been. Which child is doing better overall
(emotionally, academically)... the one taught the very
basics. And I say this with sadness because I consider
myself a rabid supporter of unschooling and follower
of John Holt. I wonder if we're missing the boat
sometimes by taking his words to the extreme. I wonder
if that's what he really meant.I don't know.....
Sarah>>>>
There are so many factors in life that could count for
the differences between your children. Even if you
parent your children in exactly the same way the
differences in their personalities makes them
*perceive* the parenting differently. Their brains are
different and work differently. You may have found
that if you had done the exact same thing with both of
them that nothing would be different now. I suppose
it's a question that we'll never know the answer to.
Also what do you mean by "doing better"? In what way?
Maybe the one who isn't 'doing as well' is better at
other less academic things, does that make those
activities less valuable? And maybe he'll come into
his own academically as he matures. I think we are so
conditioned as a society to think that academics are
the be all and end all of education that we forget
about the myriad of other possibilities. I firmly
believe that a child will get the 'basics' he needs
all on his own as they become relative to his
interests. Trusting in the process is the hardest
part. And I should know because I regularly go through
periods of doubt and uncertainty. Oh good! I guess
that means I'm normal and healthy?! :-)
Meghan
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
attempts at written communication! yikes...Which is
why I'm convinced that, much as we'd like to hope,
spell checkers and calculators can't do it all. There
are some basic skills that are helpful in knowing
(spelling, adding & subtracting) to name a few. My
oldest was 'taught' these things by me. My youngest
has not been. Which child is doing better overall
(emotionally, academically)... the one taught the very
basics. And I say this with sadness because I consider
myself a rabid supporter of unschooling and follower
of John Holt. I wonder if we're missing the boat
sometimes by taking his words to the extreme. I wonder
if that's what he really meant.I don't know.....
Sarah>>>>
There are so many factors in life that could count for
the differences between your children. Even if you
parent your children in exactly the same way the
differences in their personalities makes them
*perceive* the parenting differently. Their brains are
different and work differently. You may have found
that if you had done the exact same thing with both of
them that nothing would be different now. I suppose
it's a question that we'll never know the answer to.
Also what do you mean by "doing better"? In what way?
Maybe the one who isn't 'doing as well' is better at
other less academic things, does that make those
activities less valuable? And maybe he'll come into
his own academically as he matures. I think we are so
conditioned as a society to think that academics are
the be all and end all of education that we forget
about the myriad of other possibilities. I firmly
believe that a child will get the 'basics' he needs
all on his own as they become relative to his
interests. Trusting in the process is the hardest
part. And I should know because I regularly go through
periods of doubt and uncertainty. Oh good! I guess
that means I'm normal and healthy?! :-)
Meghan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
[email protected]
.> Which child is doing better overall
with one other?
If you're ready to believe that learning is a natural process, like
growing, then you must realize that the process happens at a different
rate and time for everyone.
All people do not learn, or need to learn, *all* the same things at the
same time or rate.
The problem is not in the child, but in the comparing of one individual
to another.
Being compared *academically* to a sibling who is perceived by everyone
as *doing better* would have emotional consequences.
way and not according to the standards or schedule of someone else.
Deb L
> (emotionally, academically)... the one taught the veryBetter according to what? Compared with twenty other kids? Compared
> basics.
with one other?
If you're ready to believe that learning is a natural process, like
growing, then you must realize that the process happens at a different
rate and time for everyone.
All people do not learn, or need to learn, *all* the same things at the
same time or rate.
The problem is not in the child, but in the comparing of one individual
to another.
Being compared *academically* to a sibling who is perceived by everyone
as *doing better* would have emotional consequences.
>And I say this with sadness because I considerThen you know John Holt would support letting a child learn in his own
> myself a rabid supporter of unschooling and follower
> of John Holt. I wonder if we're missing the boat
> sometimes by taking his words to the extreme. I wonder
> if that's what he really meant.I don't know.....
way and not according to the standards or schedule of someone else.
Deb L
Sarah Carothers
Dar wrote:
<Also what do you mean by "doing better"? In what way?
Maybe the one who isn't 'doing as well' is better at
other less academic things, does that make those
activities less valuable? And maybe he'll come into
his own academically as he matures. I think we are so
conditioned as a society to think that academics are
the be all and end all of education that we forget
about the myriad of other possibilities. >
By "doing better" I mean socially, academically, emotionally, physically, ...... you name it. One has to wonder if she would hold a better self image if she had also gotten the basics to begin with rather than being nearly 11 and still struggling to read, unable to do math *whatsoever* and have not a single friend because she doesn't know how to socially interact with kids her own age. I know that's something I couldn't teach her but I *could have* taught her how to tell time, count to 100, etc so she wouldn't be embarrassed to *be* around other kids her age. Kids are cruel and the ones who know these things often times make fun of the kids who don't. I remember hearing the neighbor kid comment, "you mean you *cant* tell *time* yet?!!"
By giving her the basics I could have avoided situations like that and imo she wouldn't be the insecure kid she is today.
jmo
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<Also what do you mean by "doing better"? In what way?
Maybe the one who isn't 'doing as well' is better at
other less academic things, does that make those
activities less valuable? And maybe he'll come into
his own academically as he matures. I think we are so
conditioned as a society to think that academics are
the be all and end all of education that we forget
about the myriad of other possibilities. >
By "doing better" I mean socially, academically, emotionally, physically, ...... you name it. One has to wonder if she would hold a better self image if she had also gotten the basics to begin with rather than being nearly 11 and still struggling to read, unable to do math *whatsoever* and have not a single friend because she doesn't know how to socially interact with kids her own age. I know that's something I couldn't teach her but I *could have* taught her how to tell time, count to 100, etc so she wouldn't be embarrassed to *be* around other kids her age. Kids are cruel and the ones who know these things often times make fun of the kids who don't. I remember hearing the neighbor kid comment, "you mean you *cant* tell *time* yet?!!"
By giving her the basics I could have avoided situations like that and imo she wouldn't be the insecure kid she is today.
jmo
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>By "doing better" I mean socially, academically, emotionally, physically,...... you name it. One has to wonder if she would hold a better self image
if she had also gotten the basics to begin with rather than being nearly 11
and still struggling to read, unable to do math *whatsoever* and have not a
single friend because she doesn't know how to socially interact with kids
her own age. I know that's something I couldn't teach her but I *could
have* taught her how to tell time, count to 100, etc so she wouldn't be
embarrassed to *be* around other kids her age. Kids are cruel and the ones
who know these things often times make fun of the kids who don't. I remember
hearing the neighbor kid comment, "you mean you *cant* tell *time* yet?!!"
>By giving her the basics I could have avoided situations like that and imoshe wouldn't be the insecure kid she is today.
>jmoIn reading the above, a thought struck me. Has she ever come to you and
>Sarah
>
stated that she doesn't know how to do these things and it bothers her? If
so, then have you sat down and explained (I like this word better than
teach) the concepts to her? again if so, is she not understanding them at
all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
resources to help her learn these concepts.
If she has never expressed an interest in learning these things, maybe she
is developmentally unready to learn these concepts and might need some extra
reassurance that this is OK and she will have materials available to her
when she is ready to learn them.
Another thought I had was that my dd spends the majority of her time with
other home/unschooled kids who are much more understanding of learning
differences and pace. From them she receives validation that she is
progressing at her own pace rather than in comparison to others her age.
Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids on a
regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.
Maybe she would be more comfortable in a group of mixed age or kids younger
than herself. that may allow her a little more leeway in the social
development. area.
As to "doing better" - I have to ask than whom? than her sister who is a
different age (and person)? Than mass-schooled kids who are held to
ridiculous standards, than who? I am learning in my unschooling journey that
it is not always the fastest, strongest, cleverest, most outgoing,
articulate, highest test scorers that are the most "successful". I am
learning to change my definition of success, my notions of how children
learn and grow. It is a difficult journey, more so for us (the parents) than
for the child. We have many years of mass-schooling ideas in our heads with
which we have to come to terms. We truly are the ones who have to learn to
"think outside the box". Our kids just have to be themselves - we are the
ones who have to get out of the way!
Elissa
Sarah Carothers
<Then you know John Holt would support letting a child learn in his own
way and not according to the standards or schedule of someone else.
Deb L
Hm?????? I'm not being sarcastic...
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
way and not according to the standards or schedule of someone else.
Deb L
>Yes, I do. But when that child's lack of academics rolls over and has an affect on her social life, what then? Children can be cruel, not even realizing it. The only kids who *don't* point out these "academic differences" are the cousins whose parents have been warned by me that this is a hot button and to try to explain it to their kids to be kind ,etc. Should a parent go to all perspective playmates and their parents and say, "look.. my child can't do xxx so please don't bring these things up. No board games that involve math, please... she can't keep up. Oh! and no reading games... can't do that, either."
Hm?????? I'm not being sarcastic...
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Thanks for your post, Elissa. I'll section it out to respond:
stated that she doesn't know how to do these things and it bothers her?
Yes, she has... crying... often.
If
so, then have you sat down and explained (I like this word better than
teach) the concepts to her?
Yes, more than once... lots of times.
again if so, is she not understanding them at
all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
resources to help her learn these concepts.
She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily storms away. I've tried a million different approaches. I've talked with a psychologist/friend and she feels dd could use some counseling. We have not taken that step yet, though. I'm just now (after a few months) able to get her to even entertain the idea of seeing outside help from the medical community.
Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids on a
regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.
Maybe she would be more comfortable in a group of mixed age or kids younger
than herself. that may allow her a little more leeway in the social
development. area.
Good suggestions and we did try them. One of the kids gave her some grief over not being able to read yet and that was the end of that. :( She refused to go back to the park days.... said she hated them and never liked going in the first place.
As to "doing better" - I have to ask than whom? than her sister who is a
different age (and person)? Than mass-schooled kids who are held to
ridiculous standards, than who? I am learning in my unschooling journey that
it is not always the fastest, strongest, cleverest, most outgoing,
articulate, highest test scorers that are the most "successful". I am
learning to change my definition of success, my notions of how children
learn and grow. It is a difficult journey, more so for us (the parents) than
for the child. We have many years of mass-schooling ideas in our heads with
which we have to come to terms. We truly are the ones who have to learn to
"think outside the box". Our kids just have to be themselves - we are the
ones who have to get out of the way!
Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something? I mean, hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like it, I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little. But I didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's ready.. leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right* thing to do for *THIS* child.
~~~OR~~~~
will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock star????????
Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
Sarah
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>In reading the above, a thought struck me. Has she ever come to you and
stated that she doesn't know how to do these things and it bothers her?
Yes, she has... crying... often.
If
so, then have you sat down and explained (I like this word better than
teach) the concepts to her?
Yes, more than once... lots of times.
again if so, is she not understanding them at
all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
resources to help her learn these concepts.
She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily storms away. I've tried a million different approaches. I've talked with a psychologist/friend and she feels dd could use some counseling. We have not taken that step yet, though. I'm just now (after a few months) able to get her to even entertain the idea of seeing outside help from the medical community.
Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids on a
regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.
Maybe she would be more comfortable in a group of mixed age or kids younger
than herself. that may allow her a little more leeway in the social
development. area.
Good suggestions and we did try them. One of the kids gave her some grief over not being able to read yet and that was the end of that. :( She refused to go back to the park days.... said she hated them and never liked going in the first place.
As to "doing better" - I have to ask than whom? than her sister who is a
different age (and person)? Than mass-schooled kids who are held to
ridiculous standards, than who? I am learning in my unschooling journey that
it is not always the fastest, strongest, cleverest, most outgoing,
articulate, highest test scorers that are the most "successful". I am
learning to change my definition of success, my notions of how children
learn and grow. It is a difficult journey, more so for us (the parents) than
for the child. We have many years of mass-schooling ideas in our heads with
which we have to come to terms. We truly are the ones who have to learn to
"think outside the box". Our kids just have to be themselves - we are the
ones who have to get out of the way!
Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something? I mean, hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like it, I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little. But I didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's ready.. leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right* thing to do for *THIS* child.
~~~OR~~~~
will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock star????????
Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
Sarah
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:42:08 -0500 <ElissaJC@...> writes:
who was 15 at the time asked how to spell a word that Cacie knew how to
spell (and spelling is not her strong suit). He was okay with it, she
didn't think less of him (although she was proud that she could help him)
and nobody thought less of him. She has friends who are 9 and 10 who are
just learning to read and write, and friends who are 9 who are just
learning to calculate simple arithmetic problems. It just doesn't seem to
matter. When she's with schooled kids, it's usually during soccer or
drama, and she's pretty good at both of those things (she has a lot more
time to practice :-) and the times that her writing and spelling have
come up during dramam class - no one has ever mentioned them to her, but
she has felt self-conscious - it has become quickly apparent that her
acting skills are what really matters in that setting.
Sarah, you've said that your duaghter can't tell time or count to 100 and
doesn't have any friends. I don't think most of Cacie's friends know
whether she can do those things or not - no one has ever asked. In other
words, I'm not sure having friends around her age (and I'm assuming that
you don't mean exactly her age, but within few years) has anything to do
with those skills. Learning how to get along with other kids requires a
unique set of social skills, and I think that as unschooling parents, we
can help our kids learn them when they clearly seem to want to. It's
harder, because they're really more unwritten, but when we moved here a
few months ago I watched as Cacie came to a big park day full of kids and
really used some pretty sophisticated skills to hook up with some other
kids. It looked pretty random but she clearly had a strategy when you
watched closely... I was impressed, and it's something I couldn't have
done at her age.
The other thing I was wondering about is what has your daughter been
doing for the past 10 years, then. You've talked about what she can't do,
but what she can she do? For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie on
spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
she asked him the name of Odysseus' son. :-) It worked like a charm...
and my brother is a pretty nice guy, clueless but nice, so he pretty
cheerfully admitted that he didn't know and that was about the end of
quizzing.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
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> Another thought I had was that my dd spends the majority of her timewith
> other home/unschooled kids who are much more understanding of learningon
> differences and pace. From them she receives validation that she is
> progressing at her own pace rather than in comparison to others her
> age. Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids
> a regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.I think this is really true. I remember onnce when a friend of Cacie's
who was 15 at the time asked how to spell a word that Cacie knew how to
spell (and spelling is not her strong suit). He was okay with it, she
didn't think less of him (although she was proud that she could help him)
and nobody thought less of him. She has friends who are 9 and 10 who are
just learning to read and write, and friends who are 9 who are just
learning to calculate simple arithmetic problems. It just doesn't seem to
matter. When she's with schooled kids, it's usually during soccer or
drama, and she's pretty good at both of those things (she has a lot more
time to practice :-) and the times that her writing and spelling have
come up during dramam class - no one has ever mentioned them to her, but
she has felt self-conscious - it has become quickly apparent that her
acting skills are what really matters in that setting.
Sarah, you've said that your duaghter can't tell time or count to 100 and
doesn't have any friends. I don't think most of Cacie's friends know
whether she can do those things or not - no one has ever asked. In other
words, I'm not sure having friends around her age (and I'm assuming that
you don't mean exactly her age, but within few years) has anything to do
with those skills. Learning how to get along with other kids requires a
unique set of social skills, and I think that as unschooling parents, we
can help our kids learn them when they clearly seem to want to. It's
harder, because they're really more unwritten, but when we moved here a
few months ago I watched as Cacie came to a big park day full of kids and
really used some pretty sophisticated skills to hook up with some other
kids. It looked pretty random but she clearly had a strategy when you
watched closely... I was impressed, and it's something I couldn't have
done at her age.
The other thing I was wondering about is what has your daughter been
doing for the past 10 years, then. You've talked about what she can't do,
but what she can she do? For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie on
spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
she asked him the name of Odysseus' son. :-) It worked like a charm...
and my brother is a pretty nice guy, clueless but nice, so he pretty
cheerfully admitted that he didn't know and that was about the end of
quizzing.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Sarah Carothers
Dar wrote:
<The other thing I was wondering about is what has your daughter been
doing for the past 10 years, then. You've talked about what she can't do,
but what she can she do? For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie on
spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
she asked him the name of Odysseus' son. :-) It worked like a charm...
and my brother is a pretty nice guy, clueless but nice, so he pretty
cheerfully admitted that he didn't know and that was about the end of
quizzing.
Dar
DD can sing her heart out and dance like crazy. She is wonderful with animals (we now have seven). She's a natural when it comes to style (she's got looong legs so I can even see her modeling one day).
So for the last 10 years she's been singing and dancing and putting on performances for me and her Dad. She's been playing with the animals as if they were her playmates (they never criticize).
:-)
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<The other thing I was wondering about is what has your daughter been
doing for the past 10 years, then. You've talked about what she can't do,
but what she can she do? For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie on
spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
she asked him the name of Odysseus' son. :-) It worked like a charm...
and my brother is a pretty nice guy, clueless but nice, so he pretty
cheerfully admitted that he didn't know and that was about the end of
quizzing.
Dar
>Excellent point. I loved the story, too !
DD can sing her heart out and dance like crazy. She is wonderful with animals (we now have seven). She's a natural when it comes to style (she's got looong legs so I can even see her modeling one day).
So for the last 10 years she's been singing and dancing and putting on performances for me and her Dad. She's been playing with the animals as if they were her playmates (they never criticize).
:-)
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kolleen
>Yes, I do. But when that child's lack of academics rolls over and has anThere's so many types of ways people learn (Frames of Mind). Public
>affect on her social life, what then? Children can be cruel, not even
>realizing it. The only kids who *don't* point out these "academic
>differences" are the cousins whose parents have been warned by me that
>this is a hot button and to try to explain it to their kids to be kind
>,etc. Should a parent go to all perspective playmates and their parents
>and say, "look.. my child can't do xxx so please don't bring these things
>up. No board games that involve math, please... she can't keep up. Oh! and
>no reading games... can't do that, either."
>Hm?????? I'm not being sarcastic...
>Sarah
education is based on 'linear' thinking so only some people excel.
Maybe your child needs to learn differently? Most of us learn by a
combination of two or three ways of seeing the world. (Physical, Musical,
Graphical etc.)
And if she is very creative, MOST likely she won't be a great linear
learner.
Mothering Magazine had a great article about this. Sorry, I can't tell
you when. I've been a suscriber for what seems to be forever and its all
just one big blur! Maybe someone else here remembers.
k
[email protected]
Elissa and Sarah,
I think I understand what you are both trying to say. AND I think I
agree with both of you. Yes, in a perfect world a child should not have
to be pushed into learning. But, we don't live in a perfect world. It
sounds to as if the 11 year old in question needs a little push to help
her believe she can do it. My son is nearly ten an he is just now
learning to read. He only very recently learned to tell time on an
analog clock. Six months ago he truly believed he could not do it -
either thing. My mother convinced him otherwise. He needed her to
believe in him enough to make him believe too. She did that by never
giving up. She lives next door and he goes there for a few hours a day.
She worked with him and helped him learn.
Now she helps the older two with math at their asking - they both want to
take the ACT in February.
But the thing about individuality is that Wyndham would never have been
able to ask for help. He didn't understand that help was possible. And
I think that was partly the effect of his sister's never needing any help
with stuff like that. He saw them learning everything by themselves and
thought he should be able to and since he couldn't it was his problem.
But that's what should be the good thing about unschooling . . . we are
free to figure out for ourselves what our children need. Two of mine
don't need encouragement to learn, the third did.
And the original thought on this thread was that there are some "basics"
that all should know. Maybe that should say most should know? I do
think that nearly every child needs to learn (eventually) to read and
maybe do some basic math - adding and subtracting. I think most will
learn with no trouble and little help. Beyond that, I don't think there
is any 'core' knowledge that everyone needs. I don't need to know what a
logarhythm is and my dh does not need to know what a past participle is.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
_______________________________________________________________
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:42:08 -0500 <ElissaJC@...> writes:
I think I understand what you are both trying to say. AND I think I
agree with both of you. Yes, in a perfect world a child should not have
to be pushed into learning. But, we don't live in a perfect world. It
sounds to as if the 11 year old in question needs a little push to help
her believe she can do it. My son is nearly ten an he is just now
learning to read. He only very recently learned to tell time on an
analog clock. Six months ago he truly believed he could not do it -
either thing. My mother convinced him otherwise. He needed her to
believe in him enough to make him believe too. She did that by never
giving up. She lives next door and he goes there for a few hours a day.
She worked with him and helped him learn.
Now she helps the older two with math at their asking - they both want to
take the ACT in February.
But the thing about individuality is that Wyndham would never have been
able to ask for help. He didn't understand that help was possible. And
I think that was partly the effect of his sister's never needing any help
with stuff like that. He saw them learning everything by themselves and
thought he should be able to and since he couldn't it was his problem.
But that's what should be the good thing about unschooling . . . we are
free to figure out for ourselves what our children need. Two of mine
don't need encouragement to learn, the third did.
And the original thought on this thread was that there are some "basics"
that all should know. Maybe that should say most should know? I do
think that nearly every child needs to learn (eventually) to read and
maybe do some basic math - adding and subtracting. I think most will
learn with no trouble and little help. Beyond that, I don't think there
is any 'core' knowledge that everyone needs. I don't need to know what a
logarhythm is and my dh does not need to know what a past participle is.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
_______________________________________________________________
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:42:08 -0500 <ElissaJC@...> writes:
>
>
> >By "doing better" I mean socially, academically, emotionally,
> physically,
> ...... you name it. One has to wonder if she would hold a better
> self image
> if she had also gotten the basics to begin with rather than being
> nearly 11
> and still struggling to read, unable to do math *whatsoever* and
> have not a
> single friend because she doesn't know how to socially interact with
> kids
> her own age. I know that's something I couldn't teach her but I
> *could
> have* taught her how to tell time, count to 100, etc so she wouldn't
> be
> embarrassed to *be* around other kids her age. Kids are cruel and
> the ones
> who know these things often times make fun of the kids who don't. I
> remember
> hearing the neighbor kid comment, "you mean you *cant* tell *time*
> yet?!!"
> >By giving her the basics I could have avoided situations like that
> and imo
> she wouldn't be the insecure kid she is today.
> >jmo
> >Sarah
> >
> In reading the above, a thought struck me. Has she ever come to you
> and
> stated that she doesn't know how to do these things and it bothers
> her? If
> so, then have you sat down and explained (I like this word better
> than
> teach) the concepts to her? again if so, is she not understanding
> them at
> all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find
> outside
> resources to help her learn these concepts.
> If she has never expressed an interest in learning these things,
> maybe she
> is developmentally unready to learn these concepts and might need
> some extra
> reassurance that this is OK and she will have materials available to
> her
> when she is ready to learn them.
> Another thought I had was that my dd spends the majority of her time
> with
> other home/unschooled kids who are much more understanding of
> learning
> differences and pace. From them she receives validation that she is
> progressing at her own pace rather than in comparison to others her
> age.
> Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids on
> a
> regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.
> Maybe she would be more comfortable in a group of mixed age or kids
> younger
> than herself. that may allow her a little more leeway in the social
> development. area.
> As to "doing better" - I have to ask than whom? than her sister who
> is a
> different age (and person)? Than mass-schooled kids who are held to
> ridiculous standards, than who? I am learning in my unschooling
> journey that
> it is not always the fastest, strongest, cleverest, most outgoing,
> articulate, highest test scorers that are the most "successful". I
> am
> learning to change my definition of success, my notions of how
> children
> learn and grow. It is a difficult journey, more so for us (the
> parents) than
> for the child. We have many years of mass-schooling ideas in our
> heads with
> which we have to come to terms. We truly are the ones who have to
> learn to
> "think outside the box". Our kids just have to be themselves - we
> are the
> ones who have to get out of the way!
> Elissa
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
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>
Lynda
Ya know, she might be like son #3. He has a real low tolerance, o.k., so no
tolerance at all, for learning. He has to know thing instantly and I don't
mean in a short period of time, I mean in nano-seconds!
So, he loves math. He "got" math instantly. he loves sports. He "got"
sports instantly, all the rules, all the moves, everything. He likes
science because it didn't take much effort on his part to "get" the
theories.
But he HATES reading because he couldn't "get" all the principles without
having to sit still and actually work at it.
It is just the way he is built. No sense agonizing over it, we just go with
the flow. It is the same with his current job. He will be the first person
to be a supervisor under the age of 18 since this business was established
in the 50s. He was born with people skills, so people love being around him
and that has gotten him two employee of the month awards in less than 9
months. Again something that has never happened in the past. He is rarely
frustrated by out of control customers.
But in learning areas his frustration level is in the basement. Don't ask,
I haven't been able to figure out the logic here either <g>
So, my suggestion would be to use the music angle. If she is like son #3,
if the foundation you work from is something that is something they really
want or enjoy, then the rest will follow. For example, rythm is math.
Learning temp calls for counting. Beat calls for learning fractions.
Learning to read music (not lyrics) would progress to reading the lyrics
which would further the reading and writing goal.
Oh, and maybe she is an auditory learner??? There are CDs (both to play on
a CD player and for the computer) for learning music. Maybe that is an
option.
Am I clear as mud as usual???
Lynda
tolerance at all, for learning. He has to know thing instantly and I don't
mean in a short period of time, I mean in nano-seconds!
So, he loves math. He "got" math instantly. he loves sports. He "got"
sports instantly, all the rules, all the moves, everything. He likes
science because it didn't take much effort on his part to "get" the
theories.
But he HATES reading because he couldn't "get" all the principles without
having to sit still and actually work at it.
It is just the way he is built. No sense agonizing over it, we just go with
the flow. It is the same with his current job. He will be the first person
to be a supervisor under the age of 18 since this business was established
in the 50s. He was born with people skills, so people love being around him
and that has gotten him two employee of the month awards in less than 9
months. Again something that has never happened in the past. He is rarely
frustrated by out of control customers.
But in learning areas his frustration level is in the basement. Don't ask,
I haven't been able to figure out the logic here either <g>
So, my suggestion would be to use the music angle. If she is like son #3,
if the foundation you work from is something that is something they really
want or enjoy, then the rest will follow. For example, rythm is math.
Learning temp calls for counting. Beat calls for learning fractions.
Learning to read music (not lyrics) would progress to reading the lyrics
which would further the reading and writing goal.
Oh, and maybe she is an auditory learner??? There are CDs (both to play on
a CD player and for the computer) for learning music. Maybe that is an
option.
Am I clear as mud as usual???
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Carothers <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: spelling
> Thanks for your post, Elissa. I'll section it out to respond:
>
> >
> In reading the above, a thought struck me. Has she ever come to you and
> stated that she doesn't know how to do these things and it bothers her?
>
> Yes, she has... crying... often.
>
> If
> so, then have you sat down and explained (I like this word better than
> teach) the concepts to her?
>
> Yes, more than once... lots of times.
>
> again if so, is she not understanding them at
> all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
> resources to help her learn these concepts.
> She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily
storms away. I've tried a million different approaches. I've talked with a
psychologist/friend and she feels dd could use some counseling. We have not
taken that step yet, though. I'm just now (after a few months) able to get
her to even entertain the idea of seeing outside help from the medical
community.
>
>
> Maybe getting your DD more involved with other homeschooled kids on a
> regular basis would help against the hurt of neighborhood kids.
> Maybe she would be more comfortable in a group of mixed age or kids
younger
> than herself. that may allow her a little more leeway in the social
> development. area.
>
> Good suggestions and we did try them. One of the kids gave her some
grief over not being able to read yet and that was the end of that. :( She
refused to go back to the park days.... said she hated them and never liked
going in the first place.
>
> As to "doing better" - I have to ask than whom? than her sister who is a
> different age (and person)? Than mass-schooled kids who are held to
> ridiculous standards, than who? I am learning in my unschooling journey
that
> it is not always the fastest, strongest, cleverest, most outgoing,
> articulate, highest test scorers that are the most "successful". I am
> learning to change my definition of success, my notions of how children
> learn and grow. It is a difficult journey, more so for us (the parents)
than
> for the child. We have many years of mass-schooling ideas in our heads
with
> which we have to come to terms. We truly are the ones who have to learn
to
> "think outside the box". Our kids just have to be themselves - we are
the
> ones who have to get out of the way!
>
> Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something? I mean,
hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such
problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like it,
I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little. But I
didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's ready..
leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right* thing to
do for *THIS* child.
> ~~~OR~~~~
> will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock
star????????
> Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
> Sarah
>
> Elissa
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
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> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
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>
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>
>
[email protected]
> again if so, is she not understanding them atstorms away. I've tried a million different approaches.
> all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
> resources to help her learn these concepts.
> She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily
****Sometimes an outside the family tutor is needed. Our local HSing
community has math clubs for all ages. One really great aspect is that the
older children teach the younger children. It is very empowering for the
kids because they see people their own age who once struggled with the same
things.
>>counseling. We have not taken that step yet, though. I'm just now (after a
>I've talked with a psychologist/friend and she feels dd could use some
few months) able to get her to even entertain the idea of seeing outside
help from the medical community.
>If she had a serious physical problem that required treatment (ie.
suspicious mole, sx of diabetes etc.) would you still be trying to convince
her to go or would you say I'm sorry but for your safety, I need to take you
to see a doctor and then take her? (and I am one of those parents who
attempts to respect my kids autonomy and choices.) Whether a problem is
physical or emotional, it should be treated as equal, IMO.
>over not being able to read yet and that was the end of that. :( She refused
>
> Good suggestions and we did try them. One of the kids gave her some grief
to go back to the park days.... said she hated them and never liked going in
the first place.
****Is there more to the HS community than park days? Sometimes a large
number of children can be overwhelming, especially those children that are
shy. Maybe smaller activities are better
>Of course! If my child is in immediate danger than I would step in. If she
>
> Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something?
can't read at 11 (and my dd may not) then I would look, listen adn discuss
some possible reasons, I would check if she has any physical reasons for not
reading, I would probably then a.) take her to a specialist for a physical
or emotional problem or b.) relax. Children do things in their own time. I
would take that as a mantra and repeat it constantly.
I mean, hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have
such problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like
it, I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little.
But I didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's
ready.. leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right*
thing to do for *THIS* child.
****IMPO, I think unschooling IS right for every child. Because IMPO, it is
facillitating my child's desire to learn. It is not a method of
homeschooling. It is not even to me an educational philosophy, it is a
lifestyle philosophy.
My suggestion about all this is to do just a few things.
1. Have her see a therapist that SHE likes and is willing to talk to. Who
cares if you consult with 10, sometimes it takes a while to find the right
one.
2. Suggest to her that she may enjoy learning some of these basic skills
from someone outside of the family, an older HSer, a college student or
beloved family friend.
3. Try some smaller HS activities
4. (and most important) BREATHE. She's only 11 and she's only "behind" if
she is viewed that way by those who love her and have her best welfare at
heart. Keep on telling her that she WILL get this stuff one day, it may take
some creativity but you will help and support her and give her as much time
as she needs.
> Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!Put your name on the reserve list after mine!
> Elissa
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/28/2001 12:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:
needs help in those areas from other people. . . she and I just clash in
those situations (I guess mainly math at this point). I take responsibility
for the situation because of not being clear myself when we first started
"school". She does fine with other people explaining things, except when it
is a person who doesn't have the amount of patience she needs. So we have
found other people where she can get what she needs when she wants it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
puddles@... writes:
> again if so, is she not understanding them atI had a very similar situation with my daughter who is 12. . . turns out she
> all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
> resources to help her learn these concepts.
> She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily
> storms away.
needs help in those areas from other people. . . she and I just clash in
those situations (I guess mainly math at this point). I take responsibility
for the situation because of not being clear myself when we first started
"school". She does fine with other people explaining things, except when it
is a person who doesn't have the amount of patience she needs. So we have
found other people where she can get what she needs when she wants it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
*Lots* to think over from your post, Elissa. Thank you for giving me something to think about......
Sarah
****Sometimes an outside the family tutor is needed. Our local HSing
community has math clubs for all ages. One really great aspect is that the
older children teach the younger children. It is very empowering for the
kids because they see people their own age who once struggled with the same
things.
.
suspicious mole, sx of diabetes etc.) would you still be trying to convince
her to go or would you say I'm sorry but for your safety, I need to take you
to see a doctor and then take her? (and I am one of those parents who
attempts to respect my kids autonomy and choices.) Whether a problem is
physical or emotional, it should be treated as equal, IMO.
number of children can be overwhelming, especially those children that are
shy. Maybe smaller activities are better
facillitating my child's desire to learn. It is not a method of
homeschooling. It is not even to me an educational philosophy, it is a
lifestyle philosophy.
My suggestion about all this is to do just a few things.
1. Have her see a therapist that SHE likes and is willing to talk to. Who
cares if you consult with 10, sometimes it takes a while to find the right
one.
2. Suggest to her that she may enjoy learning some of these basic skills
from someone outside of the family, an older HSer, a college student or
beloved family friend.
3. Try some smaller HS activities
4. (and most important) BREATHE. She's only 11 and she's only "behind" if
she is viewed that way by those who love her and have her best welfare at
heart. Keep on telling her that she WILL get this stuff one day, it may take
some creativity but you will help and support her and give her as much time
as she needs.
Sarah
****Sometimes an outside the family tutor is needed. Our local HSing
community has math clubs for all ages. One really great aspect is that the
older children teach the younger children. It is very empowering for the
kids because they see people their own age who once struggled with the same
things.
.
>If she had a serious physical problem that required treatment (ie.
suspicious mole, sx of diabetes etc.) would you still be trying to convince
her to go or would you say I'm sorry but for your safety, I need to take you
to see a doctor and then take her? (and I am one of those parents who
attempts to respect my kids autonomy and choices.) Whether a problem is
physical or emotional, it should be treated as equal, IMO.
>****Is there more to the HS community than park days? Sometimes a large
number of children can be overwhelming, especially those children that are
shy. Maybe smaller activities are better
>****IMPO, I think unschooling IS right for every child. Because IMPO, it is
facillitating my child's desire to learn. It is not a method of
homeschooling. It is not even to me an educational philosophy, it is a
lifestyle philosophy.
My suggestion about all this is to do just a few things.
1. Have her see a therapist that SHE likes and is willing to talk to. Who
cares if you consult with 10, sometimes it takes a while to find the right
one.
2. Suggest to her that she may enjoy learning some of these basic skills
from someone outside of the family, an older HSer, a college student or
beloved family friend.
3. Try some smaller HS activities
4. (and most important) BREATHE. She's only 11 and she's only "behind" if
she is viewed that way by those who love her and have her best welfare at
heart. Keep on telling her that she WILL get this stuff one day, it may take
some creativity but you will help and support her and give her as much time
as she needs.
> Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!Put your name on the reserve list after mine!
> Elissa[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/28/2001 12:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:
has wanted to be a singer, and actually has the talent to do it. We have at
times dragged our feet, because she was so young, and wanting to be in "show
business", feeling it was passing her by. As time goes on, her voice gets
better and better, to where she brings people to tears when she sings. She
had backed off on it a bit. . .is really into dogs now and has a job at a dog
training place, but has started talking about singing again. She goes back
and forth. She was ridiculed at times as well, about math, and such, but now
has a great group of unschooler friends who just don't see people as
"behind", so its not an issue anymore. Do you think she would like an email
pal Sarah? I can ask Lelia first, but I know her, and I am sure her answer
would be yes. Let me know.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
puddles@... writes:
>Wow. . sounds a lot like Lelia (my 12 yeard old). For the longest time she
> ~~~OR~~~~
> will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock
> star????????
> Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
> Sarah
>
has wanted to be a singer, and actually has the talent to do it. We have at
times dragged our feet, because she was so young, and wanting to be in "show
business", feeling it was passing her by. As time goes on, her voice gets
better and better, to where she brings people to tears when she sings. She
had backed off on it a bit. . .is really into dogs now and has a job at a dog
training place, but has started talking about singing again. She goes back
and forth. She was ridiculed at times as well, about math, and such, but now
has a great group of unschooler friends who just don't see people as
"behind", so its not an issue anymore. Do you think she would like an email
pal Sarah? I can ask Lelia first, but I know her, and I am sure her answer
would be yes. Let me know.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/28/2001 1:15:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:
. . so when her extremely educated grandparents start talking about higher
math, she just goes into her dog thing, and eyes glass over. . . LOL. . .kind
of how she does when they talk about the math and stuff.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freeform@... writes:
> For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie onYep this is a good idea as well. Lelia can tell you anything about dogs, etc.
> spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
> know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
>
. . so when her extremely educated grandparents start talking about higher
math, she just goes into her dog thing, and eyes glass over. . . LOL. . .kind
of how she does when they talk about the math and stuff.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/28/2001 1:35:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:
She sounds like a real treasure!!!! You are doing a great job!! (patting
myself on the back too. ;) I think she is doing just fine, and you are on
the right track. I totally understand about the second guessing yourself, but
I think this would be a really bad time to change what you are doing. . .this
girl sounds like she is soaring.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
puddles@... writes:
> DD can sing her heart out and dance like crazy. She is wonderful withSarah,
> animals (we now have seven). She's a natural when it comes to style (she's
> got looong legs so I can even see her modeling one day).
> So for the last 10 years she's been singing and dancing and putting on
> performances for me and her Dad. She's been playing with the animals as if
> they were her playmates (they never criticize).
> :-)
> Sarah
>
She sounds like a real treasure!!!! You are doing a great job!! (patting
myself on the back too. ;) I think she is doing just fine, and you are on
the right track. I totally understand about the second guessing yourself, but
I think this would be a really bad time to change what you are doing. . .this
girl sounds like she is soaring.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Alrighty, donning flame proof suit here. Maybe some of the acceptance has
to do with the part of the country one lives in.
I've thought back and can only come up with two negative comments about
homeschooling and they weren't that bad. Youngest kidlet handled it well
and left some folks with mouths hanging open and with a tad more knowledge
than when they arrived at the grocery store. And once when I was first
homeschooling (there was an unschooling name then) but that one was a hoot
and I shamelessly egged it on. Me bad <g> But, hey, I was only 20 at the
time. Guess the stick it to uptight, bigoted racists had already started
perculating in my gray matter <g>
In an uptight, rabid Southern Baptist area, perhaps folks and thus their
children are more critical and less accepting of things and people that are
"different." More into my way or the highway judgements???
Lynda
to do with the part of the country one lives in.
I've thought back and can only come up with two negative comments about
homeschooling and they weren't that bad. Youngest kidlet handled it well
and left some folks with mouths hanging open and with a tad more knowledge
than when they arrived at the grocery store. And once when I was first
homeschooling (there was an unschooling name then) but that one was a hoot
and I shamelessly egged it on. Me bad <g> But, hey, I was only 20 at the
time. Guess the stick it to uptight, bigoted racists had already started
perculating in my gray matter <g>
In an uptight, rabid Southern Baptist area, perhaps folks and thus their
children are more critical and less accepting of things and people that are
"different." More into my way or the highway judgements???
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Carothers <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: spelling
> Dar wrote:
> <The other thing I was wondering about is what has your daughter been
> doing for the past 10 years, then. You've talked about what she can't do,
> but what she can she do? For a while, my brother was quizzing Cacie on
> spelling and stuff every time he saw her, so we talked about what she did
> know and worked out a plan, so when he asked her how to spell some word,
> she asked him the name of Odysseus' son. :-) It worked like a charm...
> and my brother is a pretty nice guy, clueless but nice, so he pretty
> cheerfully admitted that he didn't know and that was about the end of
> quizzing.
>
> Dar
> >
> Excellent point. I loved the story, too !
>
> DD can sing her heart out and dance like crazy. She is wonderful with
animals (we now have seven). She's a natural when it comes to style (she's
got looong legs so I can even see her modeling one day).
> So for the last 10 years she's been singing and dancing and putting on
performances for me and her Dad. She's been playing with the animals as if
they were her playmates (they never criticize).
> :-)
> Sarah
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>If these parents and their children are willing to try to accomodate her,
>Yes, I do. But when that child's lack of academics rolls over and has an
>affect on her social life, what then? Children can be cruel, not even
>realizing it. The only kids who *don't* point out these "academic
>differences" are the cousins whose parents have been warned by me that
>this is a hot button and to try to explain it to their kids to be kind
>,etc. Should a parent go to all perspective playmates and their parents
>and say, "look.. my child can't do xxx so please don't bring these things
>up. No board games that involve math, please... she can't keep up. Oh! and
>no reading games... can't do that, either."
maybe they could play the same games in partners, with someone helping with
the reading and math. Who knows, maybe that's the way she'll learn to read
and do math. Or you could play the games with her until she's comfortable
with them. A lot of games only require a little bit of reading, which
could almost be memorized, like Monopoly.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>I have a son much like this, and I *did* push him a little to learn. Big
>
> Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something? I mean,
> hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such
> problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like
> it, I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a
> little. But I didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when
> she's ready.. leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the
> *right* thing to do for *THIS* child.
mistake. It backfired. But he didn't want to learn then. Because he
didn't want to, it was hard for him, and then he decided he couldn't. I
had to back off and let him do it his own way and in his own time. He
still doesn't read well at 14, but he definitely doesn't want any
help. (Both family and out of family help have been offered.)
> ~~~OR~~~~Could well do. At this point, I can't see my son getting into academics in
> will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock
> star????????
a big way. I'm not going to say he never will, because he certainly is
bright enough. But he's a physical kid. He's into sports. He builds
things like bike trails and ramps. He's good at fixing things. (His
friends ask for his help fixing bikes, and he's been going to the bike
store to use some of their tools. I think he's made a good impression on
them and may eventually get hired there.) He's a good worker. (He just
finished working full time for his dad for a few weeks. Rod said his work
habits were quite good.) He knows how to do at least one trade (tree
planting) that would put food on his table or put him through
university. He also knows that he doesn't want to do that for a
living. How many 14 year olds have that?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>Has she had a chance to take drama classes or join a choir? Where I live,
>
>DD can sing her heart out and dance like crazy. She is wonderful with
>animals (we now have seven). She's a natural when it comes to style (she's
>got looong legs so I can even see her modeling one day).
>So for the last 10 years she's been singing and dancing and putting on
>performances for me and her Dad. She's been playing with the animals as if
>they were her playmates (they never criticize).
she would be able to volunteer as a dog walker at the SPCA if a parent went
along. Same with the petting zoo. Would she want to do any of these things?
I know that my relationship with my son has improved a lot since I started
focussing on what he *can* do rather than what he can't. We've made it
clear that we'll help him do just about anything he wants to do. Does your
daughter know that you'll do the same? (I'm not saying you don't do this,
just that we had to make it explicit with our son.)
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
At 01:31 PM 28/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
Tia
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>how do you unsubscribe to this list?Try looking down the page just a little bit. It's right there.
Tia
>-maxTia Leschke leschke@...
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>***To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:***
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On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>Maybe. More likely, the kids would just find something else she didn't
>By "doing better" I mean socially, academically, emotionally, physically,
>...... you name it. One has to wonder if she would hold a better self
>image if she had also gotten the basics to begin with rather than being
>nearly 11 and still struggling to read, unable to do math *whatsoever* and
>have not a single friend because she doesn't know how to socially interact
>with kids her own age. I know that's something I couldn't teach her but I
>*could have* taught her how to tell time, count to 100, etc so she
>wouldn't be embarrassed to *be* around other kids her age. Kids are cruel
>and the ones who know these things often times make fun of the kids who
>don't. I remember hearing the neighbor kid comment, "you mean you *cant*
>tell *time* yet?!!"
>By giving her the basics I could have avoided situations like that and imo
>she wouldn't be the insecure kid she is today.
know and bug her about that. My friend's daughter used to get called
stupid by the neighbourhood kids because she didn't go to school. Then
they'd turn around and get her to do their homework for them. These were
the same kids who once argued for ages with her about how long a century
was. They were adament that it lasted 10 years!.......sigh.
I think the suggestion about finding things she does know in order to quiz
them back might be useful. She probably knows at least a few things that
they don't.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
**She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily
storms away. I've tried a million different approaches.
I'm curious why you believe that there would have been a different outcome if
you'd started earlier? Do you believe there was a time when she was more
ready than she is now, or is it that you think she isn't learning things now
out of resistance and fear?
Deborah in IL
slightly cheshire
storms away. I've tried a million different approaches.
I'm curious why you believe that there would have been a different outcome if
you'd started earlier? Do you believe there was a time when she was more
ready than she is now, or is it that you think she isn't learning things now
out of resistance and fear?
Deborah in IL
slightly cheshire
Sarah Carothers
Do you co-op with other hsing parents?
Sarah
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: lite2yu@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: spelling
In a message dated 11/28/2001 12:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:
> again if so, is she not understanding them at
> all? and then again if so, maybe that would be the time to find outside
> resources to help her learn these concepts.
> She gets sooo frustrated and when she goofs up *one* time, she angrily
> storms away.
I had a very similar situation with my daughter who is 12. . . turns out she
needs help in those areas from other people. . . she and I just clash in
those situations (I guess mainly math at this point). I take responsibility
for the situation because of not being clear myself when we first started
"school". She does fine with other people explaining things, except when it
is a person who doesn't have the amount of patience she needs. So we have
found other people where she can get what she needs when she wants it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Lovemary,
And this is why I hesitate taking her to a psychologist and treating this as any other physical illness as was pointed out earlier today. I had to give it some thought, but when she's got a sore throat, off we trot to the doc.. I can *see* the red streaks in the throat, feel the temp., etc. With dd's social/emotional/intellectual situation, though... who's to say it's broken and needs fixing? Me? I often times think so, but then a day comes along and I think, no.. she's fine... it'll all work out. Lovemary, I'm so glad to know you have a child like this, too. It gives me a bit of reassurance that it *is* ok and even though the lack of some skills has an effect on other areas in her life, they may just impact her in a positive way.
<sigh> I still am in need of that parenting manual if anybody finds one :-)
Sarah
THANKS to everybody who has contributed to this thread and given me pause to think and evaluate our situation! Hope I can return the favor in some way sometime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
And this is why I hesitate taking her to a psychologist and treating this as any other physical illness as was pointed out earlier today. I had to give it some thought, but when she's got a sore throat, off we trot to the doc.. I can *see* the red streaks in the throat, feel the temp., etc. With dd's social/emotional/intellectual situation, though... who's to say it's broken and needs fixing? Me? I often times think so, but then a day comes along and I think, no.. she's fine... it'll all work out. Lovemary, I'm so glad to know you have a child like this, too. It gives me a bit of reassurance that it *is* ok and even though the lack of some skills has an effect on other areas in her life, they may just impact her in a positive way.
<sigh> I still am in need of that parenting manual if anybody finds one :-)
Sarah
THANKS to everybody who has contributed to this thread and given me pause to think and evaluate our situation! Hope I can return the favor in some way sometime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
----- Original Message -----
From: lite2yu@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: spelling
Sarah,
She sounds like a real treasure!!!! You are doing a great job!! (patting
myself on the back too. ;) I think she is doing just fine, and you are on
the right track. I totally understand about the second guessing yourself, but
I think this would be a really bad time to change what you are doing. . .this
girl sounds like she is soaring.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
<Oh, and maybe she is an auditory learner??? There are CDs (both to play on
a CD player and for the computer) for learning music. Maybe that is an
option.
Am I clear as mud as usual???
Lynda
@@ Sarah... walking away a little embarrassed but at least willing to admit I need to pay more attention to the cues!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a CD player and for the computer) for learning music. Maybe that is an
option.
Am I clear as mud as usual???
Lynda
>You're great, as usual Lynda ;-). And the CD reminder is a good one. It made bells go off in my head. If you have a child that talks constantly, then you'll understand when I say that sometimes you hear them but you don't *really* hear them because it's such a constant stream of 'noise' going on. The other day I was messing with the sound in the car and trying to get it balanced in all the speakers. When I got this accomplished, dd said something like 'you know those books on tape you want me to listen to? I could do it like this". DONG. HIT ME OVER THE HEAD WITH A WET NOODLE, GANG. !!!!!!! geesh... I didn't "process" what she said until just now, reading your suggestion.
@@ Sarah... walking away a little embarrassed but at least willing to admit I need to pay more attention to the cues!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Lynda wrote:<And once when I was first
homeschooling (there was an unschooling name then) but that one was a hoot
and I shamelessly egged it on. Me bad <g> >>>
You aren't going to leave me hangin' are you?
What wasthe name?????
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschooling (there was an unschooling name then) but that one was a hoot
and I shamelessly egged it on. Me bad <g> >>>
You aren't going to leave me hangin' are you?
What wasthe name?????
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]