Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Learning plateaus.....Does lots of books
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grlynbl@... writes:
abilities and gifts that are valued, in our households, at least.
Now, let's work on the rest of the world!!
And, because he doesn't spend an inordinate amt of time improving his reading
skills, he has the time to spend on his true talents and loves. I love that
about unschooling, and it reminds of something I read long ago, maybe somebody
will remember where this comes from. I read so much I can never remember
sources!!
People have different capabilities to reach certain levels of mastery in
various subjects. At a certain point, the work required to reach the next level of
mastery becomes exponentially greater, and for some people, that is not a
hard reach, as they have the ability to comprehend large batches of that kind of
info at a time, and for others, the time and energy involved would be
incredibly large to improve a small amount of skills or knowledge.
For example, a friend of mine has taken the GED four or five times since she
dropped out of school. She has studied and gone to classes for years now, but
each time she takes the test, she only improves by a few points, still not
passing. For her, the skills that she must develop to pass take her an
extraordinary amount of time and effort to develop.
That girl has saved my ass quite a few times in life. lol We've known each
other since about 5th grade, and she is street smart in ways I have never even
tried to understand. My mind just doesn't work that way, and it's so funny
when she tries to explain something to me, it's the same as when I am teaching
her how to diagram sentences, blank looks and confused questions. We just have
radically different ways of being in the world. She's told me before, for
such a smart girl, you sure are stupid. ;-)
We help each other out when we can, but most of the time we give up, it just
takes too much time and energy to explain. But she is teaching me to be less
niave, and I am teaching her how to write essays. lol We both want to learn
those things, but it's just difficult because we've reached a learning plateau
on them. It's almost like we reached a barrier to the rest of that subject,
and we have to force our brains to look at things in an "unnatural" way for us
to comprehend them.
So, Ethan, for example, knows that in order to get to the next level in
reading, he would have to work extraordinarily hard to do so, and it's not worth it
to him. And you would just have to do too much to your own brain to
comprehend the VCR. The point is, if you WANT to, you can, but it would mean spending
a long time on a learning plateau first, before the understanding would come.
I love this idea, and I love that it explains why "well rounded education"
can really only go so far. When people reach these learning plateaus, it's
ridiculous to expect students to work thru them. You can only do so when YOU
REALLY WANT TO. There has to be an incredible amt of motivation and passion
behind it for it to happen eventually.
About my friend, she's taking the damn test again soon. She feels she has
to. I can't talk her out of it, and so I'm helping her as best I can. I
understand her well enough that I can explain things in a way that's not as hard for
her to process, and she's improving. She gets frustrated with how slow the
going is, and of course, when I first started explaining learning plateaus, she
had no idea what I'm talking about, but she's starting to understand that too.
She's not as hard on herself anymore. She doesn't call herself stupid
anymore, either. Hooray!!!
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Reading is not, and I thinkGreat post! I loved it. It's a perfect example of how all people have
> never will be, "natural" to Ethan. And, programming the VCR is not natural
> to
> me :-) It's a good thing we all have our own special gifts and talents.
>
> Teresa
>
abilities and gifts that are valued, in our households, at least.
Now, let's work on the rest of the world!!
And, because he doesn't spend an inordinate amt of time improving his reading
skills, he has the time to spend on his true talents and loves. I love that
about unschooling, and it reminds of something I read long ago, maybe somebody
will remember where this comes from. I read so much I can never remember
sources!!
People have different capabilities to reach certain levels of mastery in
various subjects. At a certain point, the work required to reach the next level of
mastery becomes exponentially greater, and for some people, that is not a
hard reach, as they have the ability to comprehend large batches of that kind of
info at a time, and for others, the time and energy involved would be
incredibly large to improve a small amount of skills or knowledge.
For example, a friend of mine has taken the GED four or five times since she
dropped out of school. She has studied and gone to classes for years now, but
each time she takes the test, she only improves by a few points, still not
passing. For her, the skills that she must develop to pass take her an
extraordinary amount of time and effort to develop.
That girl has saved my ass quite a few times in life. lol We've known each
other since about 5th grade, and she is street smart in ways I have never even
tried to understand. My mind just doesn't work that way, and it's so funny
when she tries to explain something to me, it's the same as when I am teaching
her how to diagram sentences, blank looks and confused questions. We just have
radically different ways of being in the world. She's told me before, for
such a smart girl, you sure are stupid. ;-)
We help each other out when we can, but most of the time we give up, it just
takes too much time and energy to explain. But she is teaching me to be less
niave, and I am teaching her how to write essays. lol We both want to learn
those things, but it's just difficult because we've reached a learning plateau
on them. It's almost like we reached a barrier to the rest of that subject,
and we have to force our brains to look at things in an "unnatural" way for us
to comprehend them.
So, Ethan, for example, knows that in order to get to the next level in
reading, he would have to work extraordinarily hard to do so, and it's not worth it
to him. And you would just have to do too much to your own brain to
comprehend the VCR. The point is, if you WANT to, you can, but it would mean spending
a long time on a learning plateau first, before the understanding would come.
I love this idea, and I love that it explains why "well rounded education"
can really only go so far. When people reach these learning plateaus, it's
ridiculous to expect students to work thru them. You can only do so when YOU
REALLY WANT TO. There has to be an incredible amt of motivation and passion
behind it for it to happen eventually.
About my friend, she's taking the damn test again soon. She feels she has
to. I can't talk her out of it, and so I'm helping her as best I can. I
understand her well enough that I can explain things in a way that's not as hard for
her to process, and she's improving. She gets frustrated with how slow the
going is, and of course, when I first started explaining learning plateaus, she
had no idea what I'm talking about, but she's starting to understand that too.
She's not as hard on herself anymore. She doesn't call herself stupid
anymore, either. Hooray!!!
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/16/03 1:50:21 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< She doesn't call herself stupid
anymore, either. Hooray!!! >>
I hope she's not calling you stupid either!
I lost the other part--maybe I sent something prematurely, and sorry if so.
<<We help each other out when we can, but most of the time we give up, it
just
takes too much time and energy to explain. But she is teaching me to be less
niave, and I am teaching her how to write essays. lol We both want to learn
those things, but it's just difficult because we've reached a learning
plateau
on them. It's almost like we reached a barrier to the rest of that subject,
and we have to force our brains to look at things in an "unnatural" way for
us
to comprehend them. >>
These are the weird differences which are explained pretty wonderfully by
Howard Gardner in Frames of Mind, and at multiple intelligences websites various
places. Anyone have a favorite one?
Sandra
<< She doesn't call herself stupid
anymore, either. Hooray!!! >>
I hope she's not calling you stupid either!
I lost the other part--maybe I sent something prematurely, and sorry if so.
<<We help each other out when we can, but most of the time we give up, it
just
takes too much time and energy to explain. But she is teaching me to be less
niave, and I am teaching her how to write essays. lol We both want to learn
those things, but it's just difficult because we've reached a learning
plateau
on them. It's almost like we reached a barrier to the rest of that subject,
and we have to force our brains to look at things in an "unnatural" way for
us
to comprehend them. >>
These are the weird differences which are explained pretty wonderfully by
Howard Gardner in Frames of Mind, and at multiple intelligences websites various
places. Anyone have a favorite one?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/16/03 3:50:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AimeeL73@...
writes:
my life that are not worth the time and effort for me to master. There are
lots of places and things where I will take the shortest route and the easiest
most convenient solution. I do not want to spend the time and energy to learn
how a car ( or anything mechanical ) works. If my Dh or Ethan was not here
to do maintenance on them.. I would hire someone. I know lots of folks who
will go out and buy cake or cookies because they don't want to learn how to
bake from scratch. I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely HAD to.. lol I have had
people say, .. uhhm, , you SEWED those curtains??? They are thinking,
"girl, you are crazy to spend $20 on fabric and 4 hours of your time to make
those curtains yourself when you could have bought some for $25." I think
some folks are whacked for spending all hot summer in their garden, planting,
hoeing, weeding, harvesting vegetables. Then, they prepare, can or freeze the
goods for later use.. when they could buy 3 cans of beans for $1.. :-) OH, now
don't get me wrong.. Boy, I will eat those homegrown beans right up YUMM. ..
But, I dont want to learn how, or spend the time to do it myself.
I am so glad that as unschoolers ( adults and children!) we have the freedom
to chose what we spend our time on, and the joy of pursuing only what we
REALLY want to learn.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> So, Ethan, for example, knows that in order to get to the next level inYES.. yes.. exactly.. .. to your whole post.. I have found many things in
> reading, he would have to work extraordinarily hard to do so, and it's not
> worth it
> to him. And you would just have to do too much to your own brain to
> comprehend the VCR. The point is, if you WANT to, you can, but it would
> mean spending
> a long time on a learning plateau first, before the understanding would
> come.
>
>
my life that are not worth the time and effort for me to master. There are
lots of places and things where I will take the shortest route and the easiest
most convenient solution. I do not want to spend the time and energy to learn
how a car ( or anything mechanical ) works. If my Dh or Ethan was not here
to do maintenance on them.. I would hire someone. I know lots of folks who
will go out and buy cake or cookies because they don't want to learn how to
bake from scratch. I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely HAD to.. lol I have had
people say, .. uhhm, , you SEWED those curtains??? They are thinking,
"girl, you are crazy to spend $20 on fabric and 4 hours of your time to make
those curtains yourself when you could have bought some for $25." I think
some folks are whacked for spending all hot summer in their garden, planting,
hoeing, weeding, harvesting vegetables. Then, they prepare, can or freeze the
goods for later use.. when they could buy 3 cans of beans for $1.. :-) OH, now
don't get me wrong.. Boy, I will eat those homegrown beans right up YUMM. ..
But, I dont want to learn how, or spend the time to do it myself.
I am so glad that as unschoolers ( adults and children!) we have the freedom
to chose what we spend our time on, and the joy of pursuing only what we
REALLY want to learn.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
grlynbl@... writes:
what I'm talking about!! lol
Well, here's one who sews her own curtains, but would also LOVE a vegetable
garden and a canning kit, lol
<<I know lots of folks who
will go out and buy cake or cookies because they don't want to learn how to
bake from scratch. I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely HAD to.. lol >>
I love to bake too. But there are certain things I buy, as well. See how
that works! lol
( Do you bake pies? Have any hints for a decent pie crust? My family's
getting sick of not eating the crust because it's so bad, hehehe. Maybe I should
just buy them frozen. See, it's not that I don't want to learn, I've just
reached a learning plateau! )
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am so glad that as unschoolers ( adults and children!) we have theThanks for letting me blabber to you about this, even tho you know darn well
> freedom
> to chose what we spend our time on, and the joy of pursuing only what we
> REALLY want to learn.
>
> Teresa
>
what I'm talking about!! lol
Well, here's one who sews her own curtains, but would also LOVE a vegetable
garden and a canning kit, lol
<<I know lots of folks who
will go out and buy cake or cookies because they don't want to learn how to
bake from scratch. I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely HAD to.. lol >>
I love to bake too. But there are certain things I buy, as well. See how
that works! lol
( Do you bake pies? Have any hints for a decent pie crust? My family's
getting sick of not eating the crust because it's so bad, hehehe. Maybe I should
just buy them frozen. See, it's not that I don't want to learn, I've just
reached a learning plateau! )
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/17/03 12:03:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AimeeL73@...
writes:
Grandma are both excellent pie crust and biscuit bakers.. I buy the frozen ones
too. There has to be something "special" to baking pie crusts and biscuits...
But, I have several dishes with which I can "outcook" my mom and my Grandma.
About the gardening and canning.. Anna saw a canning starter kit at the
grocery store.. Actually, I think it was geared for making jam/jelly/preserves..
She immediately became interested in making some type of canned fruit. I
didn't buy the pre packaged kit thingy, because it was just a marketing ploy..
lol.. You could easily buy all the components seperatly for a lot less $$.. I
promised her we would buy some canning supplies.and make some jelly or
something. We are going to look some ideas/recipes up online. So, even my "non
interest" in canning does not deter my children from pursuing it. OH, I
remember my MOST favorite thing my mom used to make was strawberry freezer jam..
That is fairly simple to make and.. OMG.. WONDERFUL on those homemade biscuits.
MMMM, now thinking about that makes me consider taking another stab at
conquering the biscuit challange. lol.. OR, I could just call Moma and ask her to
make me some :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> ( Do you bake pies? Have any hints for a decent pie crust? My family'sLOL.. I can't back pie crusts either! Or decent biscuits. My mom and
> getting sick of not eating the crust because it's so bad, hehehe. Maybe I
> should
> just buy them frozen. See, it's not that I don't want to learn, I've just
> reached a learning plateau! )
>
> ~Aimee
>
>
Grandma are both excellent pie crust and biscuit bakers.. I buy the frozen ones
too. There has to be something "special" to baking pie crusts and biscuits...
But, I have several dishes with which I can "outcook" my mom and my Grandma.
About the gardening and canning.. Anna saw a canning starter kit at the
grocery store.. Actually, I think it was geared for making jam/jelly/preserves..
She immediately became interested in making some type of canned fruit. I
didn't buy the pre packaged kit thingy, because it was just a marketing ploy..
lol.. You could easily buy all the components seperatly for a lot less $$.. I
promised her we would buy some canning supplies.and make some jelly or
something. We are going to look some ideas/recipes up online. So, even my "non
interest" in canning does not deter my children from pursuing it. OH, I
remember my MOST favorite thing my mom used to make was strawberry freezer jam..
That is fairly simple to make and.. OMG.. WONDERFUL on those homemade biscuits.
MMMM, now thinking about that makes me consider taking another stab at
conquering the biscuit challange. lol.. OR, I could just call Moma and ask her to
make me some :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
SandraDodd@... writes:
to find out where I picked that term up.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> These are the weird differences which are explained pretty wonderfully byThanks! Remember any mention of "plateus" in particular? Driving me crazy
> Howard Gardner in Frames of Mind, and at multiple intelligences websites
> various
> places.
to find out where I picked that term up.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/17/03 11:41:04 AM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< Thanks! Remember any mention of "plateus" in particular? >>
No, but it's like "topping out," and if someone has gotten as far as they're
going to get in one or another hobby/pursuit, is it better for others to push
and pressure or to leave them alone? Maybe it's a plateau with yet a higher
level to be obtained later, someday, maybe. Maybe it a plateau that's their
highest ever in that field. I'd let it go either way.
Sandra
<< Thanks! Remember any mention of "plateus" in particular? >>
No, but it's like "topping out," and if someone has gotten as far as they're
going to get in one or another hobby/pursuit, is it better for others to push
and pressure or to leave them alone? Maybe it's a plateau with yet a higher
level to be obtained later, someday, maybe. Maybe it a plateau that's their
highest ever in that field. I'd let it go either way.
Sandra
[email protected]
SandraDodd@... writes:
lots of different subjects without ever "topping out", tho. lol
~AImee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Maybe it's a plateau with yet a higherI try. I have to admit I am jealous of people who are able to coast thru
> level to be obtained later, someday, maybe. Maybe it a plateau that's their
>
> highest ever in that field. I'd let it go either way.
>
> Sandra
>
lots of different subjects without ever "topping out", tho. lol
~AImee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
grlynbl@... writes:
Ah, biscuits, I just made some last nite, very good!!! So I can make those,
hehe, but I think you've got something there.
I wonder if what made this biscuit so good and easy would also help with pie
crusts...Shortening, not butter. Something about butter having too much
water. Now European butter has a higher fat content and less water, I just heard
about it, but it's hard to find.
Wanna try those biscuits? I'll send the recipe off list.....And to anyone
else who wants em, post to me off list, they were SO GOOD.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> now thinking about that makes me consider taking another stab at<<There has to be something "special" to baking pie crusts and biscuits... >>
> conquering the biscuit challange. lol.. OR, I could just call Moma and ask
> her to
> make me some :-)
>
> Teresa
Ah, biscuits, I just made some last nite, very good!!! So I can make those,
hehe, but I think you've got something there.
I wonder if what made this biscuit so good and easy would also help with pie
crusts...Shortening, not butter. Something about butter having too much
water. Now European butter has a higher fat content and less water, I just heard
about it, but it's hard to find.
Wanna try those biscuits? I'll send the recipe off list.....And to anyone
else who wants em, post to me off list, they were SO GOOD.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]