[email protected]

fuerst@... writes:

> >>>If my child still wasn't reading when he was 13 or 14, I might be a
> bit concerned, and as a loving parent I might sit down with him and
> ask him if he's having any specific difficulties, and ask him if he
> would like any help. <<<
>
> Well, Natural Parenting Magazine and John Holt have this reply to you:
>
> "Another version of 'good' teaching is one who waits to be asked. Holt
> proposed the dictum of 'no question, no teaching'. Unless someone has
> asked a question, there is no mandate for teaching."(from "What is a
> good teacher?" Education Heretics Press)
> Susan
>


I don't know if that's a great quote or an awful one, lol. Mandate for
teaching? When my son has a question, we share things with each other until
we both understand things better, but there are never "teaching sessions".
But that doesn't mean that I never ask him questions, or that I never offer
assistance, either.

It seems like a good quote to understand some part of unschooling, the part
about child led interest, but not child led learning, and doesn't do much to
answer Deniz's point about concern and assistance. When I see my child
struggling with something, I ask him if he needs help. I accept the answer no
thanks. But I am reminding him that I am indeed there if he needs it. I don't
think it's appropriate to let the kid go on having problems if a little one on one
can help.

Right now, Alex has been refusing *all* help. It could very well be
in reaction to my offering to help too much. Hey, he's changing and he needed
to be clear with me that that was so. It seems like it happened all of a
sudden, but of that I couldn't be sure. I probably missed the cues. So he told me
out right. It has been hard for me not to offer help, and it's been hard on
him not to accept any. ;-) But this is what he needs right now, and we talk
a lot, so that's clear to me, now.

I understood instantly when he told me, ' I don't want help' , at
least part of the process that he's going thru. He's testing out his abilities,
stretching them to see what he can do next, and that's been wonderful. I
know being a good mommy right now means trusting this, and keeping half an eye
on him just in case he changes his mind. :-)

We brought two metal folding chairs from my aunt's house because some
family members are coming over for dinner. I went to grab one and ask him to
grab the other, but he said he wanted to carry both of them. Half way up the
stairs he tripped (I think because he couldn't quite lift them both, at the
same time, high enough to clear the steps). I grabbed ahold of the two
chairs....both sliding down right towards me, of course! Can you see me, stuff in my
hands, stretched out both arms to stop the chairs, but I can't quite reach to
pick them up??? lol Stuck there? lol I looked like I was trying to fly up
the stairs with chairs as my wings, it was hilarious.

One of my neighbors was coming out and grabbed one chair and brought
it upstairs for me. My son saw me accepting help and thanking him profusely,
lol, so maybe he'll soon catch on that getting help doesn't mean being weak,
not a big boy etc. Maybe none of that is involved, and he is just fleshing out
his understanding of what he's capable of, alone.

That's important to him now, and I'm not going to subvert his process
with a lot of interference. I'm not going to ask him constantly if he wants
help, because he's been clear that he doesn't.

But there were so many instances where we shared things with each
other, and helped each other, and those conversations didn't always start with a
question from him. Sometimes they started from a question from me, and I've
never seen a problem with that.

Sorry this got so long, went off on a tangent......I'm really trying to
reconcile this, and understand this...and see the line between being there for
him and judging his process by interfering.

~Aimee



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan Fuerst

Aimee,
I suppose the quote is a bit out of context. It is part of an article
entitled, "What Makes a Good Teacher?" I think it is a lead-in for
those who are so ingrained in the "school" mindset that they need to
start there. The whole of the article is too make the point that what
would be considered a "good teacher" is, in fact, one who doesn't
teach, but who facilitates land fosters learning as led by the child
(or person of any age). The language is used to communicate with those
who cannot grasp the whole concept yet...you notice they word *good* is
in quotes. For the whole article, see http://edheretics.gn.apc.org
"What is a Good Teacher?"

Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: AimeeL73@... [mailto:AimeeL73@...]
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 3:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Concern and assistance was"What is
unschooling?"

fuerst@... writes:

> >>>If my child still wasn't reading when he was 13 or 14, I might be a

> bit concerned, and as a loving parent I might sit down with him and
> ask him if he's having any specific difficulties, and ask him if he
> would like any help. <<<
>
> Well, Natural Parenting Magazine and John Holt have this reply to
you:
>
> "Another version of 'good' teaching is one who waits to be asked. Holt
> proposed the dictum of 'no question, no teaching'. Unless someone has
> asked a question, there is no mandate for teaching."(from "What is a
> good teacher?" Education Heretics Press)
> Susan
>


I don't know if that's a great quote or an awful one, lol. Mandate
for
teaching? When my son has a question, we share things with each other
until
we both understand things better, but there are never "teaching
sessions".
But that doesn't mean that I never ask him questions, or that I never
offer
assistance, either.

It seems like a good quote to understand some part of unschooling, the
part
about child led interest, but not child led learning, and doesn't do
much to
answer Deniz's point about concern and assistance. When I see my child

struggling with something, I ask him if he needs help. I accept the
answer no
thanks. But I am reminding him that I am indeed there if he needs it.
I don't
think it's appropriate to let the kid go on having problems if a little
one on one
can help.

Right now, Alex has been refusing *all* help. It could very
well be
in reaction to my offering to help too much. Hey, he's changing and he
needed
to be clear with me that that was so. It seems like it happened all of
a
sudden, but of that I couldn't be sure. I probably missed the cues. So
he told me
out right. It has been hard for me not to offer help, and it's been
hard on
him not to accept any. ;-) But this is what he needs right now, and we
talk
a lot, so that's clear to me, now.

I understood instantly when he told me, ' I don't want help' ,
at
least part of the process that he's going thru. He's testing out his
abilities,
stretching them to see what he can do next, and that's been wonderful.
I
know being a good mommy right now means trusting this, and keeping half
an eye
on him just in case he changes his mind. :-)

We brought two metal folding chairs from my aunt's house because
some
family members are coming over for dinner. I went to grab one and ask
him to
grab the other, but he said he wanted to carry both of them. Half way
up the
stairs he tripped (I think because he couldn't quite lift them both, at
the
same time, high enough to clear the steps). I grabbed ahold of the two
chairs....both sliding down right towards me, of course! Can you see
me, stuff in my
hands, stretched out both arms to stop the chairs, but I can't quite
reach to
pick them up??? lol Stuck there? lol I looked like I was trying to
fly up
the stairs with chairs as my wings, it was hilarious.

One of my neighbors was coming out and grabbed one chair and
brought
it upstairs for me. My son saw me accepting help and thanking him
profusely,
lol, so maybe he'll soon catch on that getting help doesn't mean being
weak,
not a big boy etc. Maybe none of that is involved, and he is just
fleshing out
his understanding of what he's capable of, alone.

That's important to him now, and I'm not going to subvert his
process
with a lot of interference. I'm not going to ask him constantly if he
wants
help, because he's been clear that he doesn't.

But there were so many instances where we shared things with each

other, and helped each other, and those conversations didn't always
start with a
question from him. Sometimes they started from a question from me, and
I've
never seen a problem with that.

Sorry this got so long, went off on a tangent......I'm really trying
to
reconcile this, and understand this...and see the line between being
there for
him and judging his process by interfering.

~Aimee



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[email protected]

fuerst@... writes:
> I think it is a lead-in for
> those who are so ingrained in the "school" mindset that they need to
> start there. The whole of the article is too make the point that what
> would be considered a "good teacher" is, in fact, one who doesn't
> teach, but who facilitates land fosters learning as led by the child
> (or person of any age).


Thanks for clearing that up for me ;-)

~Aimee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]