Unschooling progress
Julie Bogart
Some of you may remember that my son (now 16) took Algebra II
at the local high school last year. It was completely new to us as
we had never had him in any school of any kind before that. And
it served to show me just ho easily bound up in school
expectations I can become. Sandra and others really helped me
to step back from the automatic school-y ways that set in as I
pressured, cajoled, nagged and reminded my son to work
harder. Yuck.
Just yesterday we went to his counselor appointment. He was
slated to take Adv. Math, computer science, Sign language and
Music Theory. But he had decided this summer that he doesn't
want any more math. I worried since his choice of profession is
computer game design and programming.
But what a pleasant surprise I had in store for me yesterday. His
counselor pressed him to take the math and he took control of
the conversation saying that he had researched and found that
he doesn't even necessarily need college let alone advanced
math for what he plans to do in the gaming world. The counselor
sort of clucked her tongue at him and he replied, "If I need the
math to do the work I'm actually doing, I'll get it then. I see no
need to ruin next year with math I don't like that I will forget
anyway." The counselor sort of broke out laughing and said,
"Well, I can't argue with that logic."
She then said with disappointment, "Shoot Noah. I thought we'd
get you here for all seven periods one of these years."
He replied, "No way. You'll never get me here for that many
periods. I like my life too much."
He then worked out his schedule so that he can be with the
computer science teacher (who he really likes) for study hall as
well as class and lunch hour (three hours to work with an
expert). ASL and Music Theory are on trial. he'll drop them like
hot potatoes if they aren't engaging, says he.
As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.
Julie B
at the local high school last year. It was completely new to us as
we had never had him in any school of any kind before that. And
it served to show me just ho easily bound up in school
expectations I can become. Sandra and others really helped me
to step back from the automatic school-y ways that set in as I
pressured, cajoled, nagged and reminded my son to work
harder. Yuck.
Just yesterday we went to his counselor appointment. He was
slated to take Adv. Math, computer science, Sign language and
Music Theory. But he had decided this summer that he doesn't
want any more math. I worried since his choice of profession is
computer game design and programming.
But what a pleasant surprise I had in store for me yesterday. His
counselor pressed him to take the math and he took control of
the conversation saying that he had researched and found that
he doesn't even necessarily need college let alone advanced
math for what he plans to do in the gaming world. The counselor
sort of clucked her tongue at him and he replied, "If I need the
math to do the work I'm actually doing, I'll get it then. I see no
need to ruin next year with math I don't like that I will forget
anyway." The counselor sort of broke out laughing and said,
"Well, I can't argue with that logic."
She then said with disappointment, "Shoot Noah. I thought we'd
get you here for all seven periods one of these years."
He replied, "No way. You'll never get me here for that many
periods. I like my life too much."
He then worked out his schedule so that he can be with the
computer science teacher (who he really likes) for study hall as
well as class and lunch hour (three hours to work with an
expert). ASL and Music Theory are on trial. he'll drop them like
hot potatoes if they aren't engaging, says he.
As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.
Julie B
Mary
From: "Julie Bogart" <julie@...>
<< I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.>>
Good for him and good for you. Sounds like all is going well. I'm glad you
were able to see how he's doing with it all. That will certainly help you
stay out of the way whenever you need to again. <BG> Great story.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<< I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.>>
Good for him and good for you. Sounds like all is going well. I'm glad you
were able to see how he's doing with it all. That will certainly help you
stay out of the way whenever you need to again. <BG> Great story.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/03 9:06:27 AM, julie@... writes:
<< As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
It was great to read.
I'm saving it.
Sandra
<< As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
>>VERY cool story, Julie!
It was great to read.
I'm saving it.
Sandra
Lea Mason
Julie,
I'm new to the list and wonder if you can review the background of how you
and your son arranged with the high school to take just the classes he
wants. I always thought that with public school you had to take the whole
package. I have a ds, now 16, who's been out of public school since 5th
grade. It would be great to know how we could use the system for our own
purposes, if he so desires.
Thanks for any information you can provide.
Lea
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Bogart [mailto:julie@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Unschooling progress
Some of you may remember that my son (now 16) took Algebra II
at the local high school last year. It was completely new to us as
we had never had him in any school of any kind before that. And
it served to show me just ho easily bound up in school
expectations I can become. Sandra and others really helped me
to step back from the automatic school-y ways that set in as I
pressured, cajoled, nagged and reminded my son to work
harder. Yuck.
Just yesterday we went to his counselor appointment. He was
slated to take Adv. Math, computer science, Sign language and
Music Theory. But he had decided this summer that he doesn't
want any more math. I worried since his choice of profession is
computer game design and programming.
But what a pleasant surprise I had in store for me yesterday. His
counselor pressed him to take the math and he took control of
the conversation saying that he had researched and found that
he doesn't even necessarily need college let alone advanced
math for what he plans to do in the gaming world. The counselor
sort of clucked her tongue at him and he replied, "If I need the
math to do the work I'm actually doing, I'll get it then. I see no
need to ruin next year with math I don't like that I will forget
anyway." The counselor sort of broke out laughing and said,
"Well, I can't argue with that logic."
She then said with disappointment, "Shoot Noah. I thought we'd
get you here for all seven periods one of these years."
He replied, "No way. You'll never get me here for that many
periods. I like my life too much."
He then worked out his schedule so that he can be with the
computer science teacher (who he really likes) for study hall as
well as class and lunch hour (three hours to work with an
expert). ASL and Music Theory are on trial. he'll drop them like
hot potatoes if they aren't engaging, says he.
As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.
Julie B
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I'm new to the list and wonder if you can review the background of how you
and your son arranged with the high school to take just the classes he
wants. I always thought that with public school you had to take the whole
package. I have a ds, now 16, who's been out of public school since 5th
grade. It would be great to know how we could use the system for our own
purposes, if he so desires.
Thanks for any information you can provide.
Lea
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Bogart [mailto:julie@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Unschooling progress
Some of you may remember that my son (now 16) took Algebra II
at the local high school last year. It was completely new to us as
we had never had him in any school of any kind before that. And
it served to show me just ho easily bound up in school
expectations I can become. Sandra and others really helped me
to step back from the automatic school-y ways that set in as I
pressured, cajoled, nagged and reminded my son to work
harder. Yuck.
Just yesterday we went to his counselor appointment. He was
slated to take Adv. Math, computer science, Sign language and
Music Theory. But he had decided this summer that he doesn't
want any more math. I worried since his choice of profession is
computer game design and programming.
But what a pleasant surprise I had in store for me yesterday. His
counselor pressed him to take the math and he took control of
the conversation saying that he had researched and found that
he doesn't even necessarily need college let alone advanced
math for what he plans to do in the gaming world. The counselor
sort of clucked her tongue at him and he replied, "If I need the
math to do the work I'm actually doing, I'll get it then. I see no
need to ruin next year with math I don't like that I will forget
anyway." The counselor sort of broke out laughing and said,
"Well, I can't argue with that logic."
She then said with disappointment, "Shoot Noah. I thought we'd
get you here for all seven periods one of these years."
He replied, "No way. You'll never get me here for that many
periods. I like my life too much."
He then worked out his schedule so that he can be with the
computer science teacher (who he really likes) for study hall as
well as class and lunch hour (three hours to work with an
expert). ASL and Music Theory are on trial. he'll drop them like
hot potatoes if they aren't engaging, says he.
As we left he said, "I don't know how school kids can stand those
counselors. She was so condescending. Maybe they're used to
being treated like little helpless kids that don't know what they
want to do with their own lives. But I can't stand it. There is no
possible way I'd ever want to spend my entire day in a place like
this."
I smiled. And I learned a lot. Let Noah do the talking. He really
does know what he wants and where he's going. I've just got to
get out of the way.
Julie B
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Lea Mason"
<masonle@p...> wrote:
It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.
I'd call the guidance office at your local school district to find out if
they are familiar with part time enrollment. If they give you the
cold shoulder brush off, ignore it and call the district. Go to the
superintendant. Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.
Ideally your son shouldn't even have to prove his skill level or
anything. Sometimes it helps to contact the teacher of the class
he wants first so that the teacher will go to bat for you as well.
One of my friends had to make about a million phone calls in CA
to get the school to finally accept her daughter (so that she could
also play basketball). But she did it! It just took repeatedly telling
the school administrators that she had the right and that she
wouldn't give up until they accomodated her.
I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
Good luck!
Julie B
<masonle@p...> wrote:
> Julie,of how you
> I'm new to the list and wonder if you can review the background
> and your son arranged with the high school to take just theclasses he
> wants.Hi Lea.
>
> Lea
It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.
I'd call the guidance office at your local school district to find out if
they are familiar with part time enrollment. If they give you the
cold shoulder brush off, ignore it and call the district. Go to the
superintendant. Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.
Ideally your son shouldn't even have to prove his skill level or
anything. Sometimes it helps to contact the teacher of the class
he wants first so that the teacher will go to bat for you as well.
One of my friends had to make about a million phone calls in CA
to get the school to finally accept her daughter (so that she could
also play basketball). But she did it! It just took repeatedly telling
the school administrators that she had the right and that she
wouldn't give up until they accomodated her.
I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
Good luck!
Julie B
Lea Mason
Thanks so much, Julie. I guess I'll have to be prepared for a million phone
calls, as I'm in CA ... but if my ds wants to go there, I will do it.
Lea
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Bogart [mailto:julie@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Unschooling progress
--- In [email protected], "Lea Mason"
<masonle@p...> wrote:
It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.
I'd call the guidance office at your local school district to find out if
they are familiar with part time enrollment. If they give you the
cold shoulder brush off, ignore it and call the district. Go to the
superintendant. Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.
Ideally your son shouldn't even have to prove his skill level or
anything. Sometimes it helps to contact the teacher of the class
he wants first so that the teacher will go to bat for you as well.
One of my friends had to make about a million phone calls in CA
to get the school to finally accept her daughter (so that she could
also play basketball). But she did it! It just took repeatedly telling
the school administrators that she had the right and that she
wouldn't give up until they accomodated her.
I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
Good luck!
Julie B
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
calls, as I'm in CA ... but if my ds wants to go there, I will do it.
Lea
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie Bogart [mailto:julie@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Unschooling progress
--- In [email protected], "Lea Mason"
<masonle@p...> wrote:
> Julie,of how you
> I'm new to the list and wonder if you can review the background
> and your son arranged with the high school to take just theclasses he
> wants.Hi Lea.
>
> Lea
It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.
I'd call the guidance office at your local school district to find out if
they are familiar with part time enrollment. If they give you the
cold shoulder brush off, ignore it and call the district. Go to the
superintendant. Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.
Ideally your son shouldn't even have to prove his skill level or
anything. Sometimes it helps to contact the teacher of the class
he wants first so that the teacher will go to bat for you as well.
One of my friends had to make about a million phone calls in CA
to get the school to finally accept her daughter (so that she could
also play basketball). But she did it! It just took repeatedly telling
the school administrators that she had the right and that she
wouldn't give up until they accomodated her.
I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
Good luck!
Julie B
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/03 9:20:54 AM, julie@... writes:
<< It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. >>
It does depend on the school district,
but there are no technical rights.
You have the right to be enrolled if you're under 18 and you legally reside
in that district. But the terms of enrollment can be set by district and state.
It's not a buffet.
<<The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.>>
If you're not enrolled at least half time, they might not be able to get
anything. AND their liability insurance won't cover non-students, so that's a
huge part of getting kids enrolled half or full time.
<<Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.>>
I'd leave out that last part, but the first part could work. <g>
Schools are run off property taxes, generally, with some federal aid funding
on top of all that, and special programs, and sometimes projects run from
bonds or mill-tax blah blah. But the state funding usually comes from property
taxes.
A childless 60 year old guy with a big piece of land in an expensive
neighborhood can't go down to the school and say "I'd like to take art and play
football but THAT IS ALL, and I'm a TAXPAYER!"
<<I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
absolutely worth a try, but they don't HAVE to do anything but enroll your kid full
time and treat him like they treat every other kid. That's THEIR starting bid.
Sandra
<< It really depends on the school district. Tehcnically, you have the
right to take any clases you want. Your tax dollars pay for public
education. >>
It does depend on the school district,
but there are no technical rights.
You have the right to be enrolled if you're under 18 and you legally reside
in that district. But the terms of enrollment can be set by district and state.
It's not a buffet.
<<The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.>>
If you're not enrolled at least half time, they might not be able to get
anything. AND their liability insurance won't cover non-students, so that's a
huge part of getting kids enrolled half or full time.
<<Tell him that you know they get money if your
son attends and that you won't take no for an answer, you simply
want to know "how" to make it happen. Be persistent and let him
know that you know school districts around the country offer part
time enrollment so he can't say it isn't done. Remnind him/her
that you are a tax payer.>>
I'd leave out that last part, but the first part could work. <g>
Schools are run off property taxes, generally, with some federal aid funding
on top of all that, and special programs, and sometimes projects run from
bonds or mill-tax blah blah. But the state funding usually comes from property
taxes.
A childless 60 year old guy with a big piece of land in an expensive
neighborhood can't go down to the school and say "I'd like to take art and play
football but THAT IS ALL, and I'm a TAXPAYER!"
<<I'm lucky. Our school district loves homeschoolers and bends
over backwards to include them... for the money. :)
>>It can vary from year to year, too, even in the same district, so it's
absolutely worth a try, but they don't HAVE to do anything but enroll your kid full
time and treat him like they treat every other kid. That's THEIR starting bid.
Sandra
Betsy
**<<The school districts ought to want you as they get a
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.>>**
I think in California the school only gets money for students who are
enrolled full-time. That's why it's fairly uncommon for California kids
to go to public school part-time. But it looks like, from the example
given, that there may be exceptions.
Betsy
portion of the ADAs (Average Daily Attendance monies) for
whatever number of classes your son takes.>>**
I think in California the school only gets money for students who are
enrolled full-time. That's why it's fairly uncommon for California kids
to go to public school part-time. But it looks like, from the example
given, that there may be exceptions.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/03 11:44:10 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< I think in California the school only gets money for students who are
enrolled full-time. That's why it's fairly uncommon for California kids
to go to public school part-time. But it looks like, from the example
given, that there may be exceptions. >>
In New Mexico I think they can get benefits if the kid goes more than half
time, which is why "The Family School" has kids for a morning and lunch, or
lunch and an afternoon. They SAY it's so the kids in the two sessions can meet
each other, but I've heard that's what makes their funding. They get money for
ALL the kids, though they use the classrooms and lessons twice a day for two
batches.
More power to them. I think alternative programs are better than
school-as-usual. But it's still school at its core.
Sandra
<< I think in California the school only gets money for students who are
enrolled full-time. That's why it's fairly uncommon for California kids
to go to public school part-time. But it looks like, from the example
given, that there may be exceptions. >>
In New Mexico I think they can get benefits if the kid goes more than half
time, which is why "The Family School" has kids for a morning and lunch, or
lunch and an afternoon. They SAY it's so the kids in the two sessions can meet
each other, but I've heard that's what makes their funding. They get money for
ALL the kids, though they use the classrooms and lessons twice a day for two
batches.
More power to them. I think alternative programs are better than
school-as-usual. But it's still school at its core.
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<<A childless 60 year old guy with a big piece of land in an expensive
neighborhood can't go down to the school and say "I'd like to take art
and play football but THAT IS ALL, and I'm a TAXPAYER!">>>
Another indictment of the PS system! ;) Seriously though, it is a shame
that this can't happen, except in Community Colleges I guess.
The other day Jayn had a blast doing art with one of her grandfather's
old friends, a painter. Little masterpieces.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
neighborhood can't go down to the school and say "I'd like to take art
and play football but THAT IS ALL, and I'm a TAXPAYER!">>>
Another indictment of the PS system! ;) Seriously though, it is a shame
that this can't happen, except in Community Colleges I guess.
The other day Jayn had a blast doing art with one of her grandfather's
old friends, a painter. Little masterpieces.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
[email protected]
SandraDodd@... writes:
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> A childless 60 year old guy with a big piece of land in an expensiveLOL, wouldn't it be GREAT if he could, tho! Oh, the day.....
> neighborhood can't go down to the school and say "I'd like to take art and
> play
> football but THAT IS ALL, and I'm a TAXPAYER!"
>
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]