Stepheny Cappel

Ok, I have some questions here. I have been reading here and at RUL, and I have been gathering lots of great information..... My name is Stepheny, I live in N. Fl, have 7 children. Started hsing when my now 17 y ds was 8. Took him out of PS started 2nd gr., very relaxed, lots of reading, some forced schooling, until he balked too much. His sisters and younger brothers never saw the inside of a school which is fine by me.

Now he really fought me over schooling so much that we just put it all down and said forget it, that was about 4 years ago, funny he still listens when I read aloud, and I only know this by the comments he makes as I'm reading to the other kids.

Heres the questions: I notice Sandra, that you said something about Kirby taking the GED cold, are you or could you make him a diploma? From the great unschooling high school of your choice?

Now for some more. I noticed a post on brushing teeth how one child decided he didn't want to do it at all, (an episode of Ren and Stimpy took care of that here) but do any of you push bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a bath? I know that sounds stupid, but I am learning a totally new thing here. If you ask them to do something and they say no, do you just say ok? I can see where I am inconsistent in some things, making them do some things by force, other times I let it go, it would probably be better to wait until they just do it on their own. No mixed messages.


So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready, they don't have to eat right then? If they decide to eat candy from the neighborhood children instead then they just do? I mean that is what mine are doing LOL, so just throwing this out.

When I say you I don't mean any particular you, please don't be offended.

The childrens ages are 17, he's working and paying restitution for a burglary he did, drinking some with some friends, maybe some other things... I'm not pleased, any suggestions for this?
The 14 ydd is only interested in finding all she can about eminem. Anyone have anything on that, that I can direct her in.
The 12 ydd is going to do alright with this as she is pretty self directed already... has an iguana, and is generally enjoying life right now.
The 10 y dd is following the 12, likes to crochet, reverses some letters and words in her reading, loves books with tapes so she can read along or just listen.
The 9 y ds loves games of all kinds, cartoons, cartoons, games, plays well on the computer, does not enjoy reading but does like being read to.
All are doing some math, but since I am not going to force them anymore I don't know where that will go. I know not to worry as you all have said in posts I have read. Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for them to do if they want to? When they were younger we did no school type activities and I heard them talking and they were saying they thought I was trying to keep them dumb LOL, so we picked back up. Just some thoughts anyway.
Thanks, Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: moonstarshooter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:13 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Florida



> Where are you in Florida?
> I do not know any unschoolers here.
> I am in Kissimmee.
> Is there anyone 'out there' remotely near me????
>
> Peace~
>
> Jennifer
>

I almost posted the same question! I live in Lakeland, not far from
you at all. (At least in terms of finding unschoolers!)

Tory


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

>>but do any of you push bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a
bath?

**Hi Stepheny - We ask the kids if they want to take a shower (because they
like us to help them 'set up') every couple of days. If they say no, we say
ok. Sometimes they decide without our bringing it up that they want to take
one.

>>So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready, they
don't have to eat right then?

**Right. I offer it, and they decide if they're hungry/interested in what
I've made.

>>If they decide to eat candy from the neighborhood children instead then
they just do?

**They eat what they want when they want to. I can't remember them choosing
candy for dinner, but they have had ice cream for dinner (so have I :0)).

>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for them
to do if they want to?

**We have some workbooks that people have given us or the kids have picked
up, and they're just mixed in with the coloring books. Workbooks are not
the only (or best) way to learn something. I wouldn't worry about providing
workbooks. Live an interesting, interested life, and include your children
in it. ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], "Stepheny
Cappel" <stephc62@b...> wrote:

> Now for some more. I noticed a post on brushing teeth how
one child decided he didn't want to do it at all, (an episode of
Ren and Stimpy took care of that here) but do any of you push
bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a bath? I know
that sounds stupid, but I am learning a totally new thing here.

There are no stupid questions. it takes hundreds of exposures to
change thinking and then to conceive of how to put that new
thinking into actual practice. One thing that helped me right away
was to stop asking hypothetical questions and to deal directly
with the real issues my children were offering me.

when I think aobut brushing teeth or bath times, in our house
they just aren't grounds for battles. I do say "Time to brush our
teeth" to the younger ones (6 and 8) but the older three (11, 14,
16) I never mention it to. We don't have powr struggles here
because the power struggles in our relationship are mostly gone
now.

These little areas become battle fields, in my experience, when
parents control all different aspects of their children's lives. Then
arguing over bath taking is just one more front for the battle.

With unschooling, it took me awhile to just let go of my
expectations for all aspects of life. I had to step back and watch
for awhile without suggesting toothbrushing, bath time or math. It
was time to learn what my kids did or didn't do naturally without
all my cajoling, controlling and prompting.

After several months they've grown convinced that I'm not out to
control them and they receive suggestions to me in the same
spirit I receive them from them. We are in a cooperative effort to
help each other. So far, I help them a lot more than they help me
but that makes sense too since I'm the adult with more
experience.


>If you ask them to do something and they say no, do you just
say ok?

Let's turn this around. How about asking them to do something
because you genuinely care about their answer. If you assume
that when you ask them the answer should be yes, then it wasn't
a question. It was a command veiled in a question format.

> So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready,
they don't have to eat right then? If they decide to eat candy from
the neighborhood children instead then they just do? I mean
that is what mine are doing LOL, so just throwing this out.

I guess what it sounds like to me is that your home has a lot of
detox going on. Your kids are wanting to have more say in their
lives because they haven't had it for so long. So right now they
are finding out if what they see starting to happen is actually real,
not just a facade.

Usually after several months, kids settle down into the routines
of the family (or not) and then it won't feel as chaotic.


> The childrens ages are 17, he's working and paying restitution
for a burglary he did, drinking some with some friends, maybe
some other things... I'm not pleased, any suggestions for this?

I wouldn't be pleased either. Is he getting some help?
Counseling? I'm reading a fabulous book right now called "Yes
Your Teen is Crazy" (the title is based on new brain research that
shows that teen brains are still developping hence the title--it's
tongue in cheek) by Dr, Michael Bradley. He has great advice for
families with teens who are going through some of what you
shared here.

> The 14 ydd is only interested in finding all she can about
eminem. Anyone have anything on that, that I can direct her in.

I have to admit: I'm a closet eminem fan. I don't always love all
his songs, but I find him to be a really relevant artist and his
songs are not just catchy but insightful. The movie 8 Mile is a
terrific look at how rap is a non-violent release valve for kids who
would otherwise have every reason to act out violently and
criminally. I learned a lot watching that movie and I came to
appreciate rap in a new way.

>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them
there for them to do if they want to? When they were younger we
did no school type activities and I heard them talking and they
were saying they thought I was trying to keep them dumb LOL,
so we picked back up.

There are some great threads on unschooling math in the
archives. I hope you can find them. The idea isn't so much to
throw workbooks on the table as it is to allow math to be a
meaningful part of all your lives. One of my sons is running a
cookie business. He's learned a ton about math through the
cooking, pricing, purchasing, accounting and using a bank
account that goes with it. Another one uses math in his
obessession with yu-gi-oh card games. My oldest uses math in
his computer programming.

Math is a normal part of life. Change how you see it before you try
to figure out how to "get it to your kids."

Hope some of that was helpful.

Julie B

[email protected]

>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them
there for them to do if they want to? When they were younger we
did no school type activities and I heard them talking and they
were saying they thought I was trying to keep them dumb LOL,
so we picked back up.

There are some great threads on unschooling math in the
archives. I hope you can find them.


Also, you might want to consider attending the Live & Learn UNschooling
Conference in Columbia, SC 22-24 August---just two weeks away. It's not very far
from you, right? Northern FL?

Pam Sorooshian will be speaking on math for young children as well as for
teens. I'm VERY excited about those two presentations! Not to mention all the
other cool things going on during the weekend!

I feel that I've been plugging the conference CONSTANTLY for MONTHS. But if
you're new, you may have missed me! <G> You're really TOO close to miss this!
And you will be FILLED with unschooling joy and wisdom when you leave---what a
great way to begin an unschooling life!

I hope you'll join us!

~Kelly


Kelly Lovejoy, Coordinator
Schools Out Support
mailto:coordinator@...
803-776-4849
Fax: 803-776-7006
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/2003conference.html

Kelli Traaseth

----- Original Message -----
From: Stepheny Cappel

**All are doing some math, but since I am not going to force them anymore I don't know where that will go. **


It will probably allow them to keep doing math in their lives. They won't see it as separate from their lives. It's everywhere you go, you can't escape it! <g>



**Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for them to do if they want to?**

If they ask for workbooks, sure. Mine haven't. They would much rather do fun things like what you listed your kids like to do; listen to music, do crafts, read, play on the computer, play with our snake.

Just keep letting them follow their interests.


I was just reminded of a quote of John Holt's that can help when we are wondering about what to do with kids and learning. This is from How Children Learn,

"Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns. Therefore, we do not need to motivate children into learning by wheedling, bribing or bullying. We do not need to keep picking away at their minds to make sure they are learning. What we need to do, and all we need to do, is bring as much of the world as we can into their lives. Give children as much help and guidance as they ask for; listen respectfully when they feel like talking; and then get out of the way. We can trust them to do the rest."

This was brought back to me again in Valerie Fitzenreiter's new book _The Unprocessed Child_


Stepheny, this is a great book for getting a look into an unschooling life and addresses a lot of what you asked about in your post. Here's the link: http://www.ubpub.com/unprocessedchild.html

Check it out!

Kelli~






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joylyn

Jon and Rue Kream wrote:

> >>but do any of you push bath time, or suggest that it may be time to
> take a
> bath?

my kids love to take baths. Lots of fun water play.

> >>So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready, they
> don't have to eat right then?

nope, why would I make them eat if they weren't hungry. Sometimes they
eat one meal a day. They rarely eat breakfast, I generally like the
idea that people need to eat when hungry and not eat when they aren't
hungry, and not look at the clock much. And we never say finish your
food or one more bite or any of that. We totally unfood, and my kids do
very well. Are very healthy.

> >>If they decide to eat candy from the neighborhood children instead then
> they just do?

They don't usually eat candy from the neighborhood children, they eat
candy from our own home. ;-) No really, I don't think my kids have
ever chosen to eat nothing but candy. They might eat candy before
dinner instead of after.

To be honest, my kids don't really see foods in categories like good
food/bad food. They usually get a treat when we go shopping. Janene's
favorite treats are grape tomatoes, blueberries, and chocolate. Lexie
usually goes for broccoli , olives (she likes to try gormet, different
flavors, etc.), and chocolate. I'm glad about the chocolate, that's
usually my treat.

> >>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for
> them
> to do if they want to?

Workbooks, what are those?

no really, why workbooks? One really needs workbooks to learn? I don't
think so. My father recently had a conversation with Lexie, 8, about
how Romans had toilets and indoor plumbing and hot water and baths, etc.
so what happened to them? I was not only amazed at how much she knew
about history but that she was an equal in the conversation, not a kid
being taught.

Mostly we read, go do things, go to museums, have LOTS of conversation
about lots of different things, read, watch tv, and read.
Joylyn

[email protected]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:19:34 -0400 "Stepheny Cappel"
<stephc62@...> writes:
>but do any of you push bath time, or
> suggest that it may be time to take a bath?

Yup. I do. When she starts to smell, anyway. I consider it a kindness,
really, and sometimes I ask her if I'm stinky, when I'm trying to figure
out if I really need to fit a shower into a busy morning or I can wait
until evening.

Just because I tell her she's getting stinky doesn't mean she *has* to
shower, although she generally does. She doesn't want to walk around with
offensive BO. When she was little, she always loved baths but didn't like
hairwashes, so we did various things with weird shampoos and hairwashing
in the sink with a sprayer and just eaving it dirty sometimes. She likes
to have it braided but after a week or so it was too knotted to braid, so
we had to wash and condition it so I could get a comb through it to braid
it...

> So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready,
> they don't have to eat right then? If they decide to eat candy from
> the neighborhood children instead then they just do? I mean that is
> what mine are doing LOL, so just throwing this out.

I generally ask before I make dinner if my kid is going to want some or
not. If I'm planning something involved (which doesn't happen very often)
and I've talked to her about it and she's agreed, then I generally expect
her to make at least a token appearance... it seems rude not to.
Generally, though, she makes her own meals at least half the time.
Sometimes they're candy, but generally not - actually we have 3
half-eaten bags with candy in the refrigerator right now, some from
Easter (we keep it there so the ants won't attack).

Dar

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/03 7:40:36 PM, tktraas@... writes:

<< "Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns." >>


"Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand."


From "The Book of Bokonon"
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

And here's a gratuitious Vonnegut quote I found when looking for that other
one:

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds
himself no wiser than before...He is full of murderous resentment of people who
are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

Pamela Sorooshian

Stepheny,

The first thing I'd do, if I was you, is quickly get my hands on a copy
of "The Parent-Teen Breakthrough: the Relationship Approach" by Mira
Kirchenbaum. Really helps you think through your priorities and get a
focus on the long-term - which is, as I'm sure you know, critical when
parenting teenagers.

Also - what you do about high school graduation, diplomas, and all that
depends on what your son wants to do with himself and what the laws are
in your state.

-pam

Pamela Sorooshian

On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 06:01 PM, Julie Bogart wrote:

> but do any of you push
> bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a bath?

I hold my nose and say, "Something stinks around here," while staring
fixedly at the child who needs to bathe or just start using the
endearing term, "Little Skunk" to refer to her. <g>

(And whoever was the person so insulted by the slug joke will probably
be insulted by this one too. )

Bathing - ahhhh - I SO miss those days when I even thought about my
kids and bathing. I didn't worry about it much - just did it in a fun
way. I'd line up all three little girls in the back yard sometimes and
wash their hair, one after the other, with the hose (on very hot days,
obviously). Sometimes they played with instant pudding in the tub for
a while, like fingerpaint, and then washed out the tub and themselves.
Lots of tub toys and kitchen utensils in the tub. And so on.

-pam

Stepheny Cappel

Thanks, I sent it to her email, and I will tell her about it. I appreciate your response. Some of his music isn't bad! My son let me listen to it and told me after I said it wasn't all bad that it was Eminem. I've a feeling I will be eating some of my words from past years LOL. Thanks again. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: TreeGoddess
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Newbie Questions (pretty long


Stepheny Cappel wrote:

>The 14 ydd is only interested in finding all she can about eminem. Anyone have anything on that, that I can direct her in.
>
Just go to www.google.com and type in Eminem or Marshall Mathers and
you'll come up with loads of stuff. Here's something that I recently
read and it turns out we went to elementary school together for a
spell. LOL I also know the guy suing him from high school.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/emschool1.html

TreeGoddess


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny Cappel

About bath time, when I went shopping tonight I got bubble bath in a hulk bottle, that worked. Made bath time more fun. He didn't stay in there long but he is clean!

Mixing the workbooks with coloring books is a great idea, don't know why I keep them separate! I have a basket to keep them in, and some crates too, I can just leave them out.

I'm also glad to hear that we are detoxing *G* ..... and I mean we. I don't always eat dinner right away either. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon and Rue Kream
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 8:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-Discussion] Newbie Questions (pretty long


>>but do any of you push bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a
bath?

**Hi Stepheny - We ask the kids if they want to take a shower (because they
like us to help them 'set up') every couple of days. If they say no, we say
ok. Sometimes they decide without our bringing it up that they want to take
one.

>>So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready, they
don't have to eat right then?

**Right. I offer it, and they decide if they're hungry/interested in what
I've made.

>>If they decide to eat candy from the neighborhood children instead then
they just do?

**They eat what they want when they want to. I can't remember them choosing
candy for dinner, but they have had ice cream for dinner (so have I :0)).

>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for them
to do if they want to?

**We have some workbooks that people have given us or the kids have picked
up, and they're just mixed in with the coloring books. Workbooks are not
the only (or best) way to learn something. I wouldn't worry about providing
workbooks. Live an interesting, interested life, and include your children
in it. ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny Cappel

Julie,
-----Let's turn this around. How about asking them to do something
because you genuinely care about their answer. If you assume
that when you ask them the answer should be yes, then it wasn't
a question. It was a command veiled in a question format.


Ok this is a fact, and I have told them that. It was " I know I asked you nicely but I expect you to do it now, so do it now or I will have to tell you to do it. I see this now. Stepheny


From: Julie Bogart
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 9:01 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Newbie Questions (pretty long)


--- In [email protected], "Stepheny
Cappel" <stephc62@b...> wrote:

> Now for some more. I noticed a post on brushing teeth how
one child decided he didn't want to do it at all, (an episode of
Ren and Stimpy took care of that here) but do any of you push
bath time, or suggest that it may be time to take a bath? I know
that sounds stupid, but I am learning a totally new thing here.

There are no stupid questions. it takes hundreds of exposures to
change thinking and then to conceive of how to put that new
thinking into actual practice. One thing that helped me right away
was to stop asking hypothetical questions and to deal directly
with the real issues my children were offering me.

when I think aobut brushing teeth or bath times, in our house
they just aren't grounds for battles. I do say "Time to brush our
teeth" to the younger ones (6 and 8) but the older three (11, 14,
16) I never mention it to. We don't have powr struggles here
because the power struggles in our relationship are mostly gone
now.

These little areas become battle fields, in my experience, when
parents control all different aspects of their children's lives. Then
arguing over bath taking is just one more front for the battle.

With unschooling, it took me awhile to just let go of my
expectations for all aspects of life. I had to step back and watch
for awhile without suggesting toothbrushing, bath time or math. It
was time to learn what my kids did or didn't do naturally without
all my cajoling, controlling and prompting.

After several months they've grown convinced that I'm not out to
control them and they receive suggestions to me in the same
spirit I receive them from them. We are in a cooperative effort to
help each other. So far, I help them a lot more than they help me
but that makes sense too since I'm the adult with more
experience.


>If you ask them to do something and they say no, do you just
say ok?


> So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready,
they don't have to eat right then? If they decide to eat candy from
the neighborhood children instead then they just do? I mean
that is what mine are doing LOL, so just throwing this out.

I guess what it sounds like to me is that your home has a lot of
detox going on. Your kids are wanting to have more say in their
lives because they haven't had it for so long. So right now they
are finding out if what they see starting to happen is actually real,
not just a facade.

Usually after several months, kids settle down into the routines
of the family (or not) and then it won't feel as chaotic.


> The childrens ages are 17, he's working and paying restitution
for a burglary he did, drinking some with some friends, maybe
some other things... I'm not pleased, any suggestions for this?

I wouldn't be pleased either. Is he getting some help?
Counseling? I'm reading a fabulous book right now called "Yes
Your Teen is Crazy" (the title is based on new brain research that
shows that teen brains are still developping hence the title--it's
tongue in cheek) by Dr, Michael Bradley. He has great advice for
families with teens who are going through some of what you
shared here.

> The 14 ydd is only interested in finding all she can about
eminem. Anyone have anything on that, that I can direct her in.

I have to admit: I'm a closet eminem fan. I don't always love all
his songs, but I find him to be a really relevant artist and his
songs are not just catchy but insightful. The movie 8 Mile is a
terrific look at how rap is a non-violent release valve for kids who
would otherwise have every reason to act out violently and
criminally. I learned a lot watching that movie and I came to
appreciate rap in a new way.

>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them
there for them to do if they want to? When they were younger we
did no school type activities and I heard them talking and they
were saying they thought I was trying to keep them dumb LOL,
so we picked back up.

There are some great threads on unschooling math in the
archives. I hope you can find them. The idea isn't so much to
throw workbooks on the table as it is to allow math to be a
meaningful part of all your lives. One of my sons is running a
cookie business. He's learned a ton about math through the
cooking, pricing, purchasing, accounting and using a bank
account that goes with it. Another one uses math in his
obessession with yu-gi-oh card games. My oldest uses math in
his computer programming.

Math is a normal part of life. Change how you see it before you try
to figure out how to "get it to your kids."

Hope some of that was helpful.

Julie B


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Solich

> All are doing some math, but since I am not going to force them anymore I
don't know where that will go. I know not to worry as you all have said in
posts I have read. Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave
them there for them to do if they want to?>


Hi Stephany,

Instead of workbooks, why not get some puzzles and games and have them on
the table. I put out different craft stuff every week and a new game or
puzzle too. I also bought a tub of pattern blocks (having heard about them
from this list) and they sit on the table all the time, though mostly I'm
the one who plays with them.<g> My 4yod loves to play with the Cuisinare
rods and builds with them, She made a computer with them last week.

Tape measures are great too. I haven't met a kid yet who didn't love
playing with them. Games; puzzles, chess, monopoly, trisolitaire, dominoes,
computer and video games, there is no end to them! My son has struggled
through workbooks and hasn't been able to grasp numbers until we stopped
using them and just played games.

HTH

Julie



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Stepheny Cappel

OOHhhhhhh Kelly, I would love to make this conference and how! Finances won't allow it, so I'm hoping for the next one. Thanks for the invite, I would love to hear all about unschooling in this way, but believe me, the list is great too. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Newbie Questions (pretty long)


>>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them
there for them to do if they want to? When they were younger we
did no school type activities and I heard them talking and they
were saying they thought I was trying to keep them dumb LOL,
so we picked back up.

There are some great threads on unschooling math in the
archives. I hope you can find them.


Also, you might want to consider attending the Live & Learn UNschooling
Conference in Columbia, SC 22-24 August---just two weeks away. It's not very far
from you, right? Northern FL?

Pam Sorooshian will be speaking on math for young children as well as for
teens. I'm VERY excited about those two presentations! Not to mention all the
other cool things going on during the weekend!

I feel that I've been plugging the conference CONSTANTLY for MONTHS. But if
you're new, you may have missed me! <G> You're really TOO close to miss this!
And you will be FILLED with unschooling joy and wisdom when you leave---what a
great way to begin an unschooling life!

I hope you'll join us!

~Kelly


Kelly Lovejoy, Coordinator
Schools Out Support
mailto:coordinator@...
803-776-4849
Fax: 803-776-7006
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/2003conference.html

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny Cappel

Good to know they won't starve! I have been pretty free with the snacks, they go with dad to the store everyone has a candy bar, special things at the grocery, and they have a little money of their own to buy with.Last week Caitlin dd10 would have spent her 5 dollars on candy, but my mom made me aware of it, and then it suddenly didn't look right. UGH!! Now I wish I had shrugged and let her do it. And the dinner thing, yeesh, and I asked them, I miss dinner together I guess, but they wish to stay out and not break from playing. Sooo Caitlin says well I guess we don't have any choice *BG* but they do now. Maybe I will just make dinner later... like 8 or 9 we stay up till all hours anyway, it couldn't hurt. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: Joylyn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Newbie Questions (pretty long




Jon and Rue Kream wrote:

> >>but do any of you push bath time, or suggest that it may be time to
> take a
> bath?

my kids love to take baths. Lots of fun water play.

> >>So if they don't want to eat dinner the moment you have it ready, they
> don't have to eat right then?

nope, why would I make them eat if they weren't hungry. Sometimes they
eat one meal a day. They rarely eat breakfast, I generally like the
idea that people need to eat when hungry and not eat when they aren't
hungry, and not look at the clock much. And we never say finish your
food or one more bite or any of that. We totally unfood, and my kids do
very well. Are very healthy.

> >>If they decide to eat candy from the neighborhood children instead then
> they just do?

They don't usually eat candy from the neighborhood children, they eat
candy from our own home. ;-) No really, I don't think my kids have
ever chosen to eat nothing but candy. They might eat candy before
dinner instead of after.

To be honest, my kids don't really see foods in categories like good
food/bad food. They usually get a treat when we go shopping. Janene's
favorite treats are grape tomatoes, blueberries, and chocolate. Lexie
usually goes for broccoli , olives (she likes to try gormet, different
flavors, etc.), and chocolate. I'm glad about the chocolate, that's
usually my treat.

> >>Do I just throw some workbooks on the table and leave them there for
> them
> to do if they want to?

Workbooks, what are those?

no really, why workbooks? One really needs workbooks to learn? I don't
think so. My father recently had a conversation with Lexie, 8, about
how Romans had toilets and indoor plumbing and hot water and baths, etc.
so what happened to them? I was not only amazed at how much she knew
about history but that she was an equal in the conversation, not a kid
being taught.

Mostly we read, go do things, go to museums, have LOTS of conversation
about lots of different things, read, watch tv, and read.
Joylyn



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:32:17 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> In a message dated 8/8/03 7:40:36 PM, tktraas@...
> writes:
>
> << "Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns." >>
>
>
> "Tiger got to hunt,
> Bird got to fly;
> Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?'
> Tiger got to sleep,
> Bird got to land;
> Man got to tell himself he understand."
>
And then there's the showtunes version, from "Showboat":

"Fish gotta swim, and
Birds gotta fly.
I gotta love
One man (gal) 'til I die.
Can't help lovin' dat man (gal) of mine."

Rain was singing the Vonnegut version to the tune of "Can't Help Lovin
Dat Man"... it sort of works.

Dar

Stepheny Cappel

In a message dated 8/8/03 7:40:36 PM, tktraas@... writes:

<< "Birds fly, fish swim, man thinks and learns." >>


"Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand."


From "The Book of Bokonon"
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

And here's a gratuitious Vonnegut quote I found when looking for that other
one:

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds
himself no wiser than before...He is full of murderous resentment of people who
are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

Interesting Sandra, I've often thought of Neal ds 17 and how we've schooled and how he unschooled himself so rebelliously. Full of resentment, he is, and I have apologized to him, telling him I didn't know better. I'm glad we talk, and even after we went through the police thing, he put his head on my lap as if he were 4 again. We are learning together. Stepheny

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/03 9:32:43 PM, mjsolich@... writes:

<< I also bought a tub of pattern blocks (having heard about them

from this list) and they sit on the table all the time >>

Oh right! I would buy some of those. (We have two sets.)

There's a game called Five Crowns that's definitely worth having. It's a $10
card game.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:42:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stephc62@... writes:

> OOHhhhhhh Kelly, I would love to make this conference and how! Finances
> won't allow it, so I'm hoping for the next one. Thanks for the invite, I would
> love to hear all about unschooling in this way, but believe me, the list is
> great too.

Me too....not so much the finances, but the time. We're scrambling to get
our house closed in and fixed before we run out of money and my husband has to
go back to work, and before winter strikes.

The conference looks absolutely heavenly...I sit and drool over everything
you all will enjoy together *sniff-sniff*

BTW, will there be tapes available from the workshops? I'd be very
interested in copies of them!!

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stepheny Cappel

Pam, Oh the diploma thing I know, I did give him one because he wanted one. So I made him one thats all. I will check on that book. Like I said in one of my posts, we talk, we are close, I have apologized to him, first one hs'ed yada, yada, he says he knows, he forgives. We joke together, I don't chase him around saying anything about the drinking, except I wish he would reconsider his decisions... Not sure if thats right either. He does have a counselor, voluntary on his part, for alcohol and drugs, and sees her weekly. Thanks for the info. Stepheny
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Newbie Questions (pretty long


Stepheny,

The first thing I'd do, if I was you, is quickly get my hands on a copy
of "The Parent-Teen Breakthrough: the Relationship Approach" by Mira
Kirchenbaum. Really helps you think through your priorities and get a
focus on the long-term - which is, as I'm sure you know, critical when
parenting teenagers.

Also - what you do about high school graduation, diplomas, and all that
depends on what your son wants to do with himself and what the laws are
in your state.

-pam


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/03 10:13:50 PM, freeform@... writes:

<<
Rain was singing the Vonnegut version to the tune of "Can't Help Lovin
Dat Man"... it sort of works. >>

I think it's a calypso tune, the Vonnegut thing.
I think, somewhere, he sang it. (book on tape maybe?)

Sandra

Pamela Sorooshian

On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 08:56 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> There's a game called Five Crowns that's definitely worth having. It's
> a $10
> card game.

And SET. Outstanding!!!

-pam

Fetteroll

on 8/8/03 11:41 PM, Stepheny Cappel at stephc62@... wrote:

> OOHhhhhhh Kelly, I would love to make this conference and how! Finances won't
> allow it, so I'm hoping for the next one. Thanks for the invite, I would love
> to hear all about unschooling in this way, but believe me, the list is great
> too. Stepheny

No, don't wait until next year! The conference is moving north of Boston!

Do you camp? Maybe you could borrow a tent and camp near town.

Kelly has working scholarships.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
stephc62@... writes:


> Ok this is a fact, and I have told them that. It was " I know I asked you
> nicely but I expect you to do it now, so do it now or I will have to tell
> you to do it. I see this now. Stepheny
>

I LOVE when the lights go on!

The other stuff will make sense too---just give it time! Then you can
"clique" with us! <BWG>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:49:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
stephc62@... writes:


> Maybe I will just make dinner later... like 8 or 9 we stay up till all
> hours anyway, it couldn't hurt. Stepheny
>

Just in the summer. It's HARD to come in when it's so pretty. I've been
gardening before, and Ben's walked out and said, "You realize it's 8:30, right?" I
had NO idea! I really thought it was just after 6:00! You can get lost in time
so easily in the summer.

When the days start getting shorter, supper will naturally be earlier.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:57:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:


> BTW, will there be tapes available from the workshops? I'd be very
> interested in copies of them!!
>

Tapes will be available form the main presentations, NOT the funshops. We
still have some from last year's conference too.

http://schoolsoutsupport.org/resources.html

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

Hi,
I don't know if this is done or can be done. Can you videotape some of the speakers?? I can't attend but I'd love to 'be' there.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: CelticFrau@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Newbie Questions (pretty long)


In a message dated 8/8/2003 11:42:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
stephc62@... writes:

> OOHhhhhhh Kelly, I would love to make this conference and how! Finances
> won't allow it, so I'm hoping for the next one. Thanks for the invite, I would
> love to hear all about unschooling in this way, but believe me, the list is
> great too.

Me too....not so much the finances, but the time. We're scrambling to get
our house closed in and fixed before we run out of money and my husband has to
go back to work, and before winter strikes.

The conference looks absolutely heavenly...I sit and drool over everything
you all will enjoy together *sniff-sniff*

BTW, will there be tapes available from the workshops? I'd be very
interested in copies of them!!

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/9/2003 5:54:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:


> No, don't wait until next year! The conference is moving north of Boston!
>
> Do you camp? Maybe you could borrow a tent and camp near town.
>
> Kelly has working scholarships.
>
> Joyce
>

Yep, yep, yep!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

In a message dated 8/9/2003 5:54:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:

> No, don't wait until next year! The conference is moving north of Boston!
>
> Do you camp? Maybe you could borrow a tent and camp near town.

I have a tent that I would be happy to bring along, if you'd like!

Also, you could see (even at this late date) if anyone would be into
sharing a room with you. That's what we did last year and we're doing it
again this year and not only does it make it more affordable, but it's
really cool to be in close proximity with another unschooling family. Last
year, we were the only unschoolers we knew. It was great for Liam (my son)
and for me to see other unschoolers in action, doing the same or similar
things we do.

Going to the conference is one of the best possible things you can do for
your unschooling, and you shouldn't let a goofy thing like money stop you!

Marji, who is REALLY looking forward!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]