Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] being home all day with kids
Heather Hall
This is the hardest part for me. I'm not sure if it's because I'm an
only child, or because I over-identify with my daughter who is the same
age I was when some pretty awful stuff happened to me...I just don't
handle being with them 24-7 very well. I've done for weeks or months
here and there, but we end up very sad. Right now they are at
Montessori for a few days a week and it seems to be a good balance to
keep the mean mommy at bay. I desperately want to unschool and enjoy
my children all day long. Instead when it comes down to it, I
withdraw. I don't like to read to my kids, I don't like it when they
try to 'help'. I feel like a creep! I used to have a lady come help
me while I was pregnant with Crispin (I was very very sick, couldn't
chase Harriet down to get the wet diapers off) She turned everything
into a game and I was so envious of her ability to do that. It is a
real test of my patience to let my kids help me do anything. How can I
so strongly believe something is right, yet feel so wrong in the role?
Am I alone in this dilemma?
--
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 09:19 PM,
[email protected] wrote:
only child, or because I over-identify with my daughter who is the same
age I was when some pretty awful stuff happened to me...I just don't
handle being with them 24-7 very well. I've done for weeks or months
here and there, but we end up very sad. Right now they are at
Montessori for a few days a week and it seems to be a good balance to
keep the mean mommy at bay. I desperately want to unschool and enjoy
my children all day long. Instead when it comes down to it, I
withdraw. I don't like to read to my kids, I don't like it when they
try to 'help'. I feel like a creep! I used to have a lady come help
me while I was pregnant with Crispin (I was very very sick, couldn't
chase Harriet down to get the wet diapers off) She turned everything
into a game and I was so envious of her ability to do that. It is a
real test of my patience to let my kids help me do anything. How can I
so strongly believe something is right, yet feel so wrong in the role?
Am I alone in this dilemma?
--
Heather, mom to
Harriet 12.15.99
Crispin 01.25.02
heatherette@...
On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 09:19 PM,
[email protected] wrote:
> Lots of parents think they would get tired of being with their kids[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> every
> day, but I haven't found that to be a problem at all. In the same way
> if you
> hang around with another friend (like an adult now, for me, or a kid
> when I was a
> kid), if you see them every day you have LOTS more to talk about than
> if you
> just see them once a week.
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/03 10:06:25 AM, Heatherette@... writes:
<< She turned everything
into a game and I was so envious of her ability to do that. It is a
real test of my patience to let my kids help me do anything. How can I
so strongly believe something is right, yet feel so wrong in the role? >>
I'm guessing the Montessori tuition is more expensive than counselling for
you.
Maybe you can (QUICKLY!) find a really good short-term counsellor, someone
who doesn't intend to draw out your entire life's story and keep you as a
regular client for years, but who could have some incredibly easy and good ideas for
getting you past your stuck place.
If you plan to stay stuck, unschooling might not work out for you. If you
want to unschool, you need to have some flexibility and joy and happy
expectation.
Are you an introvert and just get crowded? Can you hire a mother's helper,
to hang out with the kids and get them snacks and water and play with them?
<<I don't like to read to my kids, I don't like it when they
try to 'help'. I feel like a creep! >>
Some moms like one age lots more than others. Maybe you don't love toddlers,
but if you don't love THESE particular children, it will be harder to unfold
with them as they grow.
You can heal your own childhood traumas by looking at little things your
children do and thinking that you wish you could have done that. And if you think
it sweetly instead of with jealous resentment, you can allow the hurt child
inside you to experience a moment of release.
I could be off on this, but if you have childhood issues you've been burying
or ignoring, it might be the season to release them. If it's
child-of-alcoholic stuff, al-Anon can help you and it won't cost money. If it's codependency,
you might find a self-help group too. If it's survival of sexual abuse,
likewise. If it's less generic, it might be worth going to counselling for a
while, so that you are freed up and open to give your children what they need so
that they don't grow up with a lump left over from childhood too.
When I was 32 I started four years of going to Adult Children of Alcoholics
meetings. Without that, I would not have been a good mom, and my marriage
probably wouldn't have lasted, because I had knots in me I didn't know that other
people didn't all have. In that same first season, I got pregnant with Kirby.
And I went to La Leche League after he was born. Those two organizations
and their ideas about how peple can and should live in peace changed my life,
and my kids' lives, and my husband's life in really good ways.
Unschooling seemed quite like more of the same, to me, beause it's related
to them both. Children have natural needs for peace and positive regard and
for joy. They grow best when they're not stunted, which seems obvious, but
it's easy to forget if we go with the cultural flow which says children are bad,
irritating, whiney, sneaky and so forth. Children raised openly and kindly
don't need to be that way.
I think that where your kids are or aren't won't matter unless you change
your own heart and eyes toward them and toward yourself.
Sandra
<< She turned everything
into a game and I was so envious of her ability to do that. It is a
real test of my patience to let my kids help me do anything. How can I
so strongly believe something is right, yet feel so wrong in the role? >>
I'm guessing the Montessori tuition is more expensive than counselling for
you.
Maybe you can (QUICKLY!) find a really good short-term counsellor, someone
who doesn't intend to draw out your entire life's story and keep you as a
regular client for years, but who could have some incredibly easy and good ideas for
getting you past your stuck place.
If you plan to stay stuck, unschooling might not work out for you. If you
want to unschool, you need to have some flexibility and joy and happy
expectation.
Are you an introvert and just get crowded? Can you hire a mother's helper,
to hang out with the kids and get them snacks and water and play with them?
<<I don't like to read to my kids, I don't like it when they
try to 'help'. I feel like a creep! >>
Some moms like one age lots more than others. Maybe you don't love toddlers,
but if you don't love THESE particular children, it will be harder to unfold
with them as they grow.
You can heal your own childhood traumas by looking at little things your
children do and thinking that you wish you could have done that. And if you think
it sweetly instead of with jealous resentment, you can allow the hurt child
inside you to experience a moment of release.
I could be off on this, but if you have childhood issues you've been burying
or ignoring, it might be the season to release them. If it's
child-of-alcoholic stuff, al-Anon can help you and it won't cost money. If it's codependency,
you might find a self-help group too. If it's survival of sexual abuse,
likewise. If it's less generic, it might be worth going to counselling for a
while, so that you are freed up and open to give your children what they need so
that they don't grow up with a lump left over from childhood too.
When I was 32 I started four years of going to Adult Children of Alcoholics
meetings. Without that, I would not have been a good mom, and my marriage
probably wouldn't have lasted, because I had knots in me I didn't know that other
people didn't all have. In that same first season, I got pregnant with Kirby.
And I went to La Leche League after he was born. Those two organizations
and their ideas about how peple can and should live in peace changed my life,
and my kids' lives, and my husband's life in really good ways.
Unschooling seemed quite like more of the same, to me, beause it's related
to them both. Children have natural needs for peace and positive regard and
for joy. They grow best when they're not stunted, which seems obvious, but
it's easy to forget if we go with the cultural flow which says children are bad,
irritating, whiney, sneaky and so forth. Children raised openly and kindly
don't need to be that way.
I think that where your kids are or aren't won't matter unless you change
your own heart and eyes toward them and toward yourself.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2003 1:24:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
do without that whole stage. Large slugs! <g> I LOVE toddlers---could eat them
with a spoon, Eighteen months to three years? A housefull! I think it's
because they are learning SO much SO quickly. They are "coming into their own" as
people with obvious likes and dislikes---and can finally let you know. And
they're so damned funny!
The other stage I like is teens. Probably again for the same reasons! <g> I
don't get tired of teens. They change so much every day! And they want to know
SO much (just not necessarily what YOU want them to know! <g>)
A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Some moms like one age lots more than others. Maybe you don't loveYeah--I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't like baby-babies. I could really
> toddlers,
>
do without that whole stage. Large slugs! <g> I LOVE toddlers---could eat them
with a spoon, Eighteen months to three years? A housefull! I think it's
because they are learning SO much SO quickly. They are "coming into their own" as
people with obvious likes and dislikes---and can finally let you know. And
they're so damned funny!
The other stage I like is teens. Probably again for the same reasons! <g> I
don't get tired of teens. They change so much every day! And they want to know
SO much (just not necessarily what YOU want them to know! <g>)
A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <kbcdlovejo@...>
<<A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me
at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>>
Oh I just adore the baby stage. I think that's why it's so hard for me to
face the fact we won't have more kids. I just can't bare to think I won't
hold such a tiny little one in my arms and put my face to their wrinkly
little foreheads and breath deep. I have hope for lots of grandkids!!! So I
will take the babies, all of them. But then again I like the toddler stages
and kids stages and teen stages so you probably won't get them all back!
<BEG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me
at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>>
Oh I just adore the baby stage. I think that's why it's so hard for me to
face the fact we won't have more kids. I just can't bare to think I won't
hold such a tiny little one in my arms and put my face to their wrinkly
little foreheads and breath deep. I have hope for lots of grandkids!!! So I
will take the babies, all of them. But then again I like the toddler stages
and kids stages and teen stages so you probably won't get them all back!
<BEG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Kelly Lenhart
>How can INot even close to alone, I would guess. I'm with you, for one.
>so strongly believe something is right, yet feel so wrong in the role?
>Am I alone in this dilemma?
Right now I'm on the computer while my kids are downstairs watching tv. I
need some decompression time, or I'm going to be a raving bitch. But I KNOW
they are having problems, I can hear it.
I chose to be home, I chose to have kids, I chose to be pregnant right now.
But it isn't a role I'm natural at and I am having a hard time with it.
Sometimes we flow so well, then there is now. -sigh-
Off to help my kids cope with each other.
Kelly
Deborah Lewis
***age I was when some pretty awful stuff happened to me...I just don't
handle being with them 24-7 very well.***
I'm sorry. Terrible things from childhood do make a difference in our
adult life.
If you never heal from those things as a child they become open wounds
eventually and threaten happiness.
You owe your kids everything. They deserve the best mom ever and you
deserve to have that sadness filled
place inside you repaired and filled instead with the joy of your kids.
Someone recommended finding counseling and that's great advice. There
are so may ways you can start feeling better right now.
Deb L
handle being with them 24-7 very well.***
I'm sorry. Terrible things from childhood do make a difference in our
adult life.
If you never heal from those things as a child they become open wounds
eventually and threaten happiness.
You owe your kids everything. They deserve the best mom ever and you
deserve to have that sadness filled
place inside you repaired and filled instead with the joy of your kids.
Someone recommended finding counseling and that's great advice. There
are so may ways you can start feeling better right now.
Deb L
Backstrom kelli
oh the baby stage is it for me! I love those little toes and little chubby cheeks, I cant get enough, already I am looking at my dh with "that look" and Nora is only 8 months:) I like 3 too, 11 is so so, has its ups and downs:) Kelli
Mary <mummy124@...> wrote:From: <kbcdlovejo@...>
<<A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me
at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>>
Oh I just adore the baby stage. I think that's why it's so hard for me to
face the fact we won't have more kids. I just can't bare to think I won't
hold such a tiny little one in my arms and put my face to their wrinkly
little foreheads and breath deep. I have hope for lots of grandkids!!! So I
will take the babies, all of them. But then again I like the toddler stages
and kids stages and teen stages so you probably won't get them all back!
<BEG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
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Mary <mummy124@...> wrote:From: <kbcdlovejo@...>
<<A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me
at
18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>>
Oh I just adore the baby stage. I think that's why it's so hard for me to
face the fact we won't have more kids. I just can't bare to think I won't
hold such a tiny little one in my arms and put my face to their wrinkly
little foreheads and breath deep. I have hope for lots of grandkids!!! So I
will take the babies, all of them. But then again I like the toddler stages
and kids stages and teen stages so you probably won't get them all back!
<BEG>
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***oh the baby stage is it for me! I love those little toes and little
chubby cheeks, I cant get enough, already I am looking at my dh with
"that look"***
My brother's baby is four weeks old today and I'm having the hardest
time. I'm just trying not to look at her and going out and finding a
lot of fun things to do with Dylan so I don't have to feel it.
Deb L, mamma to one wonderful eleven year old boy.
chubby cheeks, I cant get enough, already I am looking at my dh with
"that look"***
My brother's baby is four weeks old today and I'm having the hardest
time. I'm just trying not to look at her and going out and finding a
lot of fun things to do with Dylan so I don't have to feel it.
Deb L, mamma to one wonderful eleven year old boy.
[email protected]
A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to me at
I have a 14 mo old that wakes at 1am each night. A 3 almost 4 yr. old that
has gone to bed 8 times tonight, just decided for the second time tonight to
wash her hair (its long to her but),dump a bottle of strawberry and a bottle of
blueberry shampoo down the drain, water on her new laminate floor and told me
she loved me each time, lol but she's so cute.
Heres a photo she on Ebay as my motorcycle model
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6708&it
em=2426873944
All as hubby sleeps soundly. Oh and 11 yr. old decided to sew a camo hat at
9:30 and jammed my machine (fixable).
All of this would not have gone this way had I not been in a rush to get
quality time with hubby. He's snoring away..... gesh
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>lol,
>
> ~Kelly
I have a 14 mo old that wakes at 1am each night. A 3 almost 4 yr. old that
has gone to bed 8 times tonight, just decided for the second time tonight to
wash her hair (its long to her but),dump a bottle of strawberry and a bottle of
blueberry shampoo down the drain, water on her new laminate floor and told me
she loved me each time, lol but she's so cute.
Heres a photo she on Ebay as my motorcycle model
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6708&it
em=2426873944
All as hubby sleeps soundly. Oh and 11 yr. old decided to sew a camo hat at
9:30 and jammed my machine (fixable).
All of this would not have gone this way had I not been in a rush to get
quality time with hubby. He's snoring away..... gesh
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2003 10:37:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
~Kelly, Sleepless in South Carolina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> On the other hand, the sleep thing would probably reallyYou're complaining of lack of sleep and you're putting on a conference???!!!
> get to me now.
~Kelly, Sleepless in South Carolina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2003 11:02:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
Those are the ages YOU are stuck with---sorry. Remember: I don't get them
until 18 months old and I let go of them AT three. Eleven's also too young! See?
This is why I stick to those certain ages! <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> I have a 14 mo old that wakes at 1am each night. A 3 almost 4 yr. old thatLaura,
> has gone to bed 8 times tonight, just decided for the second time tonight to
>
> wash her hair (its long to her but),dump a bottle of strawberry and a bottle
> of
> blueberry shampoo down the drain, water on her new laminate floor and told
> me
> she loved me each time, lol but she's so cute.
> Heres a photo she on Ebay as my motorcycle model
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6708&
> it
> em=2426873944
> All as hubby sleeps soundly. Oh and 11 yr. old decided to sew a camo hat at
> 9:30 and jammed my machine (fixable).
> All of this would not have gone this way had I not been in a rush to get
> quality time with hubby. He's snoring away..... gesh
>
Those are the ages YOU are stuck with---sorry. Remember: I don't get them
until 18 months old and I let go of them AT three. Eleven's also too young! See?
This is why I stick to those certain ages! <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole
Kelly, I know you will tell me you are just kidding, didn't I notice the "<g>" after each one of your comments, but I have to say it to you because you have shown such vehemence lately in other places. Your comments on babies being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned my stomach. I can't imagine how a mother would think that of her children. What a hideous beginning for a child whose mother doesn't want to be around him or her. Poor babies. And, 18 months? You don't want to be around them for a year and a half? The whole notion is nauseating, Kelly.
I'm NOT kidding, grinning, or joking. And, I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't stand to be around her newborn baby.
Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!
I'm NOT kidding, grinning, or joking. And, I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't stand to be around her newborn baby.
Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Re: being home all day with kids
In a message dated 8/6/2003 11:02:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
> I have a 14 mo old that wakes at 1am each night. A 3 almost 4 yr. old that
> has gone to bed 8 times tonight, just decided for the second time tonight to
>
> wash her hair (its long to her but),dump a bottle of strawberry and a bottle
> of
> blueberry shampoo down the drain, water on her new laminate floor and told
> me
> she loved me each time, lol but she's so cute.
> Heres a photo she on Ebay as my motorcycle model
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6708&
> it
> em=2426873944
> All as hubby sleeps soundly. Oh and 11 yr. old decided to sew a camo hat at
> 9:30 and jammed my machine (fixable).
> All of this would not have gone this way had I not been in a rush to get
> quality time with hubby. He's snoring away..... gesh
>
Laura,
Those are the ages YOU are stuck with---sorry. Remember: I don't get them
until 18 months old and I let go of them AT three. Eleven's also too young! See?
This is why I stick to those certain ages! <BWG>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I thought she was kidding... I could be wrong but I hope not. Laura
<<<Kelly, I know you will tell me you are just kidding, didn't I notice the
"<g>" after each one of your comments, but I have to say it to you because you
have shown such vehemence lately in other places. Your comments on babies
being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned my stomach. I can't imagine how
a mother would think that of her children. What a hideous beginning for a
child whose mother doesn't want to be around him or her. Poor babies. And, 18
months? You don't want to be around them for a year and a half? The whole
notion is nauseating, Kelly.
I'm NOT kidding, grinning, or joking. And, I hope I never have to read
another post where a mother says she can't stand to be around her newborn baby.
Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<Kelly, I know you will tell me you are just kidding, didn't I notice the
"<g>" after each one of your comments, but I have to say it to you because you
have shown such vehemence lately in other places. Your comments on babies
being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned my stomach. I can't imagine how
a mother would think that of her children. What a hideous beginning for a
child whose mother doesn't want to be around him or her. Poor babies. And, 18
months? You don't want to be around them for a year and a half? The whole
notion is nauseating, Kelly.
I'm NOT kidding, grinning, or joking. And, I hope I never have to read
another post where a mother says she can't stand to be around her newborn baby.
Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Liedel
You know I remember, very clearly, holding my adopted son Gene Gene in my
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window. Some days I still
do. Some days I don't want to be the perfect, or any mommy some days this is
VERY hard and I want to scream. Many days are really good days but the bad
ones sure do stand out. I need my time too. I need to get away and have time
with my husband that is child free. My in-laws once went on and on about how
they NEVER spent vacations away from their children and how horrible we are
for taking three days a year to go to Las Vegas or a three day cruise. The
flaw in this logic is that they both worked more than full time (Dad worked
so much OT that he virtually never saw the kids for weeks at a time). They
were also outted by my husbands aunt who clearly remembers watching the kids
several times so Mom and Dad could go on a trip together. The bottom line of
all this is children (not infants) need some time away to explore on their
own. My boys play in the living room or upstairs when I feed the baby and
get my e-mail I am not there 24/7 in their faces. I am here (unless it is
our once a month date night, which goes back to once a week when the baby is
older) if there is a problem or a question or to read to them or play cards
any time but I am not constantly with them and while I am in awe of women
and men who are with their kids, or anyone for that matter, constantly that
will never be who I am.
(Whew that was a long paragraph)
Needing an escape is 100% OK. It means you know your limits and understand
who you are and do not want to lose yourself in others. By perusing my
interests as well as being there for my kids I am a better Mom to all of
them. I am not saying things are perfect here, far from it and there are
some days that window looks awful tempting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window. Some days I still
do. Some days I don't want to be the perfect, or any mommy some days this is
VERY hard and I want to scream. Many days are really good days but the bad
ones sure do stand out. I need my time too. I need to get away and have time
with my husband that is child free. My in-laws once went on and on about how
they NEVER spent vacations away from their children and how horrible we are
for taking three days a year to go to Las Vegas or a three day cruise. The
flaw in this logic is that they both worked more than full time (Dad worked
so much OT that he virtually never saw the kids for weeks at a time). They
were also outted by my husbands aunt who clearly remembers watching the kids
several times so Mom and Dad could go on a trip together. The bottom line of
all this is children (not infants) need some time away to explore on their
own. My boys play in the living room or upstairs when I feed the baby and
get my e-mail I am not there 24/7 in their faces. I am here (unless it is
our once a month date night, which goes back to once a week when the baby is
older) if there is a problem or a question or to read to them or play cards
any time but I am not constantly with them and while I am in awe of women
and men who are with their kids, or anyone for that matter, constantly that
will never be who I am.
(Whew that was a long paragraph)
Needing an escape is 100% OK. It means you know your limits and understand
who you are and do not want to lose yourself in others. By perusing my
interests as well as being there for my kids I am a better Mom to all of
them. I am not saying things are perfect here, far from it and there are
some days that window looks awful tempting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Liedel
The baby stage is interesting but my sons from 4 up... what a great time! I
am very verbal and to be able to talk and reason with them.. WOW!! What an
amazing thing. Babies are cute but I am just not a "baby" person. Although
taking care of Herne is a joy. We plan to have more, we are going to adopt
older.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
am very verbal and to be able to talk and reason with them.. WOW!! What an
amazing thing. Babies are cute but I am just not a "baby" person. Although
taking care of Herne is a joy. We plan to have more, we are going to adopt
older.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't
stand to be around her newborn baby. ***
Kelly's been around here awhile, helping lots of people live better lives
with their kids. She's done unimaginable amounts of work to host TWO
unschooling conferences now. She has a big kid and a not as big kid who
where both babies once.
You might not have been here but in a recent bumpy expedition through the
weird land of spanking Kelly spoke out thoughtfully and intelligently in
defence of children. That's something she does every day on these lists
and at the message boards, in spite of being very busy getting ready for
the Schools Out Support 2003 Live and Learn Unschooling Conference in
Columbia, South Carolina, August 22, 23 and 24th. (shameless plug for
Kelly -- did I get that right? <g>) Kelly's helping a lot of people find
unschooling and peaceful parenting. You may not have noticed, but she's
one of my favorite people.
***expecting much backlash.... bring it on!***
That's not a very positive or helpful thought. There might be a
reason to expect fans of the pretty damn amazing Kelly Lovejoy -
Unschooling mom, conference host, basenji lover, worm grower
extraordinaire - to tell you you might have paid attention to the little
<g>'s.
Deb
stand to be around her newborn baby. ***
Kelly's been around here awhile, helping lots of people live better lives
with their kids. She's done unimaginable amounts of work to host TWO
unschooling conferences now. She has a big kid and a not as big kid who
where both babies once.
You might not have been here but in a recent bumpy expedition through the
weird land of spanking Kelly spoke out thoughtfully and intelligently in
defence of children. That's something she does every day on these lists
and at the message boards, in spite of being very busy getting ready for
the Schools Out Support 2003 Live and Learn Unschooling Conference in
Columbia, South Carolina, August 22, 23 and 24th. (shameless plug for
Kelly -- did I get that right? <g>) Kelly's helping a lot of people find
unschooling and peaceful parenting. You may not have noticed, but she's
one of my favorite people.
***expecting much backlash.... bring it on!***
That's not a very positive or helpful thought. There might be a
reason to expect fans of the pretty damn amazing Kelly Lovejoy -
Unschooling mom, conference host, basenji lover, worm grower
extraordinaire - to tell you you might have paid attention to the little
<g>'s.
Deb
Backstrom kelli
phew, I am so relieved to hear some really heart felt and honest discussion about the hard realities of parenting for 24/7. I know that as a relative newcomer to this list I have often felt like I could never imagine being the perfect parent that is illustrated so often on this list. I think that it becomes more of a reality as easier over time of practicing some of the ideas and thoughts that have been articulated beautifully on this list but I clearly remember having a miny breakdown a few months after joining this list because I was trying soo hard to practice these ideas and let go of some of my "issues" and I just found myself totally overwhelmed by all three of my children and yelling at one of them for something (so stupid and silly I don't even remember what it is now) but I remember thinking, my God, do those unschooling moms ever screw up like this? and feeling a little inept. I quickly apologized for my behavior and went on but the fact remains that parenting for me has
been the most rewarding wonderful, heartbreaking and exhausting job I have ever had. I wish all those mothers that may struggle great luck and love in their pursuit to find some joy in parenting and unschooling. Kelli
Nancy Liedel <naliedel@...> wrote:You know I remember, very clearly, holding my adopted son Gene Gene in my
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window. Some days I still
do. Some days I don't want to be the perfect, or any mommy some days this is
VERY hard and I want to scream. Many days are really good days but the bad
ones sure do stand out. I need my time too. I need to get away and have time
with my husband that is child free. My in-laws once went on and on about how
they NEVER spent vacations away from their children and how horrible we are
for taking three days a year to go to Las Vegas or a three day cruise. The
flaw in this logic is that they both worked more than full time (Dad worked
so much OT that he virtually never saw the kids for weeks at a time). They
were also outted by my husbands aunt who clearly remembers watching the kids
several times so Mom and Dad could go on a trip together. The bottom line of
all this is children (not infants) need some time away to explore on their
own. My boys play in the living room or upstairs when I feed the baby and
get my e-mail I am not there 24/7 in their faces. I am here (unless it is
our once a month date night, which goes back to once a week when the baby is
older) if there is a problem or a question or to read to them or play cards
any time but I am not constantly with them and while I am in awe of women
and men who are with their kids, or anyone for that matter, constantly that
will never be who I am.
(Whew that was a long paragraph)
Needing an escape is 100% OK. It means you know your limits and understand
who you are and do not want to lose yourself in others. By perusing my
interests as well as being there for my kids I am a better Mom to all of
them. I am not saying things are perfect here, far from it and there are
some days that window looks awful tempting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
been the most rewarding wonderful, heartbreaking and exhausting job I have ever had. I wish all those mothers that may struggle great luck and love in their pursuit to find some joy in parenting and unschooling. Kelli
Nancy Liedel <naliedel@...> wrote:You know I remember, very clearly, holding my adopted son Gene Gene in my
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window. Some days I still
do. Some days I don't want to be the perfect, or any mommy some days this is
VERY hard and I want to scream. Many days are really good days but the bad
ones sure do stand out. I need my time too. I need to get away and have time
with my husband that is child free. My in-laws once went on and on about how
they NEVER spent vacations away from their children and how horrible we are
for taking three days a year to go to Las Vegas or a three day cruise. The
flaw in this logic is that they both worked more than full time (Dad worked
so much OT that he virtually never saw the kids for weeks at a time). They
were also outted by my husbands aunt who clearly remembers watching the kids
several times so Mom and Dad could go on a trip together. The bottom line of
all this is children (not infants) need some time away to explore on their
own. My boys play in the living room or upstairs when I feed the baby and
get my e-mail I am not there 24/7 in their faces. I am here (unless it is
our once a month date night, which goes back to once a week when the baby is
older) if there is a problem or a question or to read to them or play cards
any time but I am not constantly with them and while I am in awe of women
and men who are with their kids, or anyone for that matter, constantly that
will never be who I am.
(Whew that was a long paragraph)
Needing an escape is 100% OK. It means you know your limits and understand
who you are and do not want to lose yourself in others. By perusing my
interests as well as being there for my kids I am a better Mom to all of
them. I am not saying things are perfect here, far from it and there are
some days that window looks awful tempting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole
Yeah, Perhaps, Deb, but she's been being extremely upsetting on a few lists, and I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut.
One may not be a baby person, but to say babies are big slugs, is nauseating and, yeah, in my opinion, extremely wrong. I said nothing about never taking a break from your newborns.
I expected backlash because all these groups are clique-y and I'm not stupid.
Nichole
One may not be a baby person, but to say babies are big slugs, is nauseating and, yeah, in my opinion, extremely wrong. I said nothing about never taking a break from your newborns.
I expected backlash because all these groups are clique-y and I'm not stupid.
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Lewis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Re: Re: being home all day with kids
***I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't
stand to be around her newborn baby. ***
Kelly's been around here awhile, helping lots of people live better lives
with their kids. She's done unimaginable amounts of work to host TWO
unschooling conferences now. She has a big kid and a not as big kid who
where both babies once.
You might not have been here but in a recent bumpy expedition through the
weird land of spanking Kelly spoke out thoughtfully and intelligently in
defence of children. That's something she does every day on these lists
and at the message boards, in spite of being very busy getting ready for
the Schools Out Support 2003 Live and Learn Unschooling Conference in
Columbia, South Carolina, August 22, 23 and 24th. (shameless plug for
Kelly -- did I get that right? <g>) Kelly's helping a lot of people find
unschooling and peaceful parenting. You may not have noticed, but she's
one of my favorite people.
***expecting much backlash.... bring it on!***
That's not a very positive or helpful thought. There might be a
reason to expect fans of the pretty damn amazing Kelly Lovejoy -
Unschooling mom, conference host, basenji lover, worm grower
extraordinaire - to tell you you might have paid attention to the little
<g>'s.
Deb
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Solich
>> A deal! I'll ship tiny babies to someone, if you'll ship them back to meat 18 months. You get them back at three. I get them again at 13! <BWG>
>Done deal Kelly. When can I have one and how will you deliver? Sorry, pun
> ~Kelly
intended.
Julie
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Nichole
I'm all for escaping when necessary. My little girl is extremely verbal and creative and talks pretty much the entire time she is awake. I usually love to listen to her chatter, but sometimes I do need a break. I build in two breaks a day, in fact, and they are both at the gym. My gym has day care, and I can drop Margaux for an hour in the morning and an hour after my husband gets off work. She likes the aids there and she can play video games and dress up. It's a great play area, with a playground outside, too.
Last week I asked a friend to watch her all day while I went to Spokane with a friend. Turned out that my friends car broke down about 2/3 of the way there and we had to come back, but it was a day without kids for both of us, and it was very refreshing.
You have to take care of yourself so that you can be a good mom, no matter what the age of your children.
I'm fortunate in that I've loved all my daughter's ages and stages, and I've always had a great support system.
Nichole
Last week I asked a friend to watch her all day while I went to Spokane with a friend. Turned out that my friends car broke down about 2/3 of the way there and we had to come back, but it was a day without kids for both of us, and it was very refreshing.
You have to take care of yourself so that you can be a good mom, no matter what the age of your children.
I'm fortunate in that I've loved all my daughter's ages and stages, and I've always had a great support system.
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Backstrom kelli
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-Discussion] being home all day with kids
phew, I am so relieved to hear some really heart felt and honest discussion about the hard realities of parenting for 24/7.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 06:55 AM, Nichole wrote:
Kelly made a joke you didn't find in good taste. So what?
You have other issues with her from other lists.
You are forcing over a thousand other people to listen to you whine
about it and THAT is truly rude.
You consistently write personal notes on this public list asking Deb to
come back to some other local list and that is cliquish - that is also
rude.
You are wasting our time.
If you can't post something useful, something that moves discussion
forward or adds to the mix of ideas, then don't post anything at all.
-pam
> I expected backlash because all these groups are clique-y and I'm notHere's your backlash.
> stupid.
>
Kelly made a joke you didn't find in good taste. So what?
You have other issues with her from other lists.
You are forcing over a thousand other people to listen to you whine
about it and THAT is truly rude.
You consistently write personal notes on this public list asking Deb to
come back to some other local list and that is cliquish - that is also
rude.
You are wasting our time.
If you can't post something useful, something that moves discussion
forward or adds to the mix of ideas, then don't post anything at all.
-pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/7/03 5:40:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ms_fausey@... writes:
your own child.
I love my boys and I am an attachment parent but I admit that period when a
baby is so dependent was not my favorite time. I loved it when they started
looking being curious. Some mothers hold another baby and want one of their
own...not me. I think boy am I glad mine are older than that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ms_fausey@... writes:
> I'm NOT kidding, grinning, or joking. And, I hope I never have to readNot liking that period in a babies life is far from not being able to stand
> another post where a mother says she can't stand to be around her newborn baby
your own child.
I love my boys and I am an attachment parent but I admit that period when a
baby is so dependent was not my favorite time. I loved it when they started
looking being curious. Some mothers hold another baby and want one of their
own...not me. I think boy am I glad mine are older than that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
I'm going to piggy back (kind-of) onto what Sandra was saying.
**If you plan to stay stuck, unschooling might not work out for you. If you
want to unschool, you need to have some flexibility and joy and happy
expectation.**
Yes, and if you want it bad enough you can do it.
I was raised in a pretty much traditional status quo home, kids played with kids, adults hung with adults. The seperateness was startling.
I also had some abuse that was belittled, and made light of, but am dealing with it now.
So as you said, when I had children, I didn't enjoy *really* playing with them or later, even really *being* with them. I didn't know how, I was never shown. I needed some solitude and felt it (I am an introvert) when my oldest 2 were 18 months and a baby, it was especially hard. I was never told that this would be a short time, enjoy them and cuddle them, it will help them and you in the long run.....and so on.
You are probably ahead of me on this and have heard all of this, but this was advice that I didn't even think of or hear of until after the fact.
Point being, I am now enjoying my children. We are living together happily, playing together. And I don't get sick of them. They hang with me sometimes, go on their own sometimes. They are older now. We are all healing and loving this unschooling life.
I did have to make a conscious decision though. I was going to parent differently from how I was parented and every so often I have to remind myself. Especially with society being so different than these ways. I want to give to my children what I didn't have! And you know what? Its awesome!
A tape of Sandra's has helped me: the Peaceful Parenting parenting one from: http://www.hsc.org/tapes2002.html
and also Anne O's-- Unschooling As Mindful Living available at: http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/resources.html
I do also have to take time to care for myself and that is the balancing act part. Sometimes it comes easier than other times and when it doesn't come as easy, I am learning how to deal with that too :) Yoga and breathing. Which you can do in a variety of places.
You can do it! And it is so worth the effort.
Sorry this is so disjointed, but until my kids are older, :) I probably won't be able to write a nice flowing piece.
Kelli~ who is also getting toast for dd, thread for other dd, and talking to Shyrley on IM!
PS Oh, and I am now reading The Unprocessed Child by Valerie Fitzenreiter. Wonderful!! Unschooling, gentle and respectful parenting, all rolled up into one!
Check it out! http://www.ubpub.com/unprocessedchild.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**If you plan to stay stuck, unschooling might not work out for you. If you
want to unschool, you need to have some flexibility and joy and happy
expectation.**
Yes, and if you want it bad enough you can do it.
I was raised in a pretty much traditional status quo home, kids played with kids, adults hung with adults. The seperateness was startling.
I also had some abuse that was belittled, and made light of, but am dealing with it now.
So as you said, when I had children, I didn't enjoy *really* playing with them or later, even really *being* with them. I didn't know how, I was never shown. I needed some solitude and felt it (I am an introvert) when my oldest 2 were 18 months and a baby, it was especially hard. I was never told that this would be a short time, enjoy them and cuddle them, it will help them and you in the long run.....and so on.
You are probably ahead of me on this and have heard all of this, but this was advice that I didn't even think of or hear of until after the fact.
Point being, I am now enjoying my children. We are living together happily, playing together. And I don't get sick of them. They hang with me sometimes, go on their own sometimes. They are older now. We are all healing and loving this unschooling life.
I did have to make a conscious decision though. I was going to parent differently from how I was parented and every so often I have to remind myself. Especially with society being so different than these ways. I want to give to my children what I didn't have! And you know what? Its awesome!
A tape of Sandra's has helped me: the Peaceful Parenting parenting one from: http://www.hsc.org/tapes2002.html
and also Anne O's-- Unschooling As Mindful Living available at: http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/resources.html
I do also have to take time to care for myself and that is the balancing act part. Sometimes it comes easier than other times and when it doesn't come as easy, I am learning how to deal with that too :) Yoga and breathing. Which you can do in a variety of places.
You can do it! And it is so worth the effort.
Sorry this is so disjointed, but until my kids are older, :) I probably won't be able to write a nice flowing piece.
Kelli~ who is also getting toast for dd, thread for other dd, and talking to Shyrley on IM!
PS Oh, and I am now reading The Unprocessed Child by Valerie Fitzenreiter. Wonderful!! Unschooling, gentle and respectful parenting, all rolled up into one!
Check it out! http://www.ubpub.com/unprocessedchild.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Liedel
For those of you with verbal children. Gene Gene is VERY verbal, chatters
all the time, and I love it but he tends to run over his brother who cannot
get a word in edgewise. When Steven and Gene Gene are apart poor Steve tries
to get out all the words his brother will not allow him to get into. Steven,
when with just us, will talk and talk and I know he wants to talk more to
Gene Gene but Gene Gene tends to boss and talk a lot. I want to help Gene
Gene allow Steven to interact more rather than react to what Gene Gene is
saying to him. I want Steven to have more opportunities to talk and discuss
things as he wishes to rather than have to wait for alone time with Mom and
Dad which is getting less frequent.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
all the time, and I love it but he tends to run over his brother who cannot
get a word in edgewise. When Steven and Gene Gene are apart poor Steve tries
to get out all the words his brother will not allow him to get into. Steven,
when with just us, will talk and talk and I know he wants to talk more to
Gene Gene but Gene Gene tends to boss and talk a lot. I want to help Gene
Gene allow Steven to interact more rather than react to what Gene Gene is
saying to him. I want Steven to have more opportunities to talk and discuss
things as he wishes to rather than have to wait for alone time with Mom and
Dad which is getting less frequent.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>Not liking that period in a babies life is far from not being able to standFor me, kids start getting "interesting" at about 10 months or so, when they
>your own child.
are really mobile and starting on the way to toddlerhood. Not to say they
aren't cool and loved and all that in infancy, but...they just aren't that
interesting.
My little one is 26 months and started talking this summer. Went from one
word to sentences in about a month. WAY more fun now when we can actually
TALK!!! My seven year old is facinating. I have a baby due in, oh 2 weeks,
and while I'm happy about it, the reality is--the next six months or so is
just a matter of figuring out his temperment and taking care of him.
Integrating him into the family. Crucial and all that. Loving and all
that, but honestly, not that interesting to me.
I do feel a bit like I'm "waiting" until ALL my boys are at least 2.5 so
that we can live "normally." Not an attitude that always makes life easy, I
admit. And one I'm working on. BUT in many ways it's not unreasonable.
I'm not an awful mom, but I'm not the BEST mom of very little kids. Doesn't
mean I
Doesn't mean I don't love them. Doesn't mean I don't take care of htem.
Doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Just means babies don't thrill me.
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/7/03 3:40:37 AM, ms_fausey@... writes:
<< Your comments on babies being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned
my stomach. >>
IT WAS A JOKE.
It was a reference (I'm guessing) to my having said many times that babies
aren't just grubs, as some people seem to treat them.
<<And, I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't
stand to be around her newborn baby. >>
You DON'T have to.
What Kelly wrote was in the context of me having tried to reassure another
mom.
<<Poor babies. And, 18 months? You don't want to be around them for a year
and a half? The whole notion is nauseating, Kelly.>>
Kelly's kids are really, truly happy boys--I've seen them in their home.
And their mom is really, truly happy.
Your post wasn't. Please try to breathe a few times before going off like
that.
<<Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!>>
Why do you want to do that to the list when it's peaceful and your complaints
were based on something you knew were intended to be humor?
Sandra
<< Your comments on babies being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned
my stomach. >>
IT WAS A JOKE.
It was a reference (I'm guessing) to my having said many times that babies
aren't just grubs, as some people seem to treat them.
<<And, I hope I never have to read another post where a mother says she can't
stand to be around her newborn baby. >>
You DON'T have to.
What Kelly wrote was in the context of me having tried to reassure another
mom.
<<Poor babies. And, 18 months? You don't want to be around them for a year
and a half? The whole notion is nauseating, Kelly.>>
Kelly's kids are really, truly happy boys--I've seen them in their home.
And their mom is really, truly happy.
Your post wasn't. Please try to breathe a few times before going off like
that.
<<Nichole, expecting much backlash.... bring it on!>>
Why do you want to do that to the list when it's peaceful and your complaints
were based on something you knew were intended to be humor?
Sandra
[email protected]
>>>Kelly made a joke you didn't find in good taste. So what?You have otherissues with her from other lists.You are forcing over a thousand other people to
listen to you whine about it and THAT is truly rude.<<<
Her issues on the other list:
On Unschooling 101 we had someone, who is an eclectic homeschooler with a
Waldorf bent, posting that she needs some help finding ways to motivate the
children in a science class she's teaching this fall. I said that this is an
UNschooling list for beginners and that and that she would do better to find a
Waldorf or teachers' list.
Then Oom came on to say that she thinks that her children's doing workbooks
is "working".
Again, this is Unschooling-101. Neither of those things has ANYthing to do
with unschooling---especially unschooling for beginners. Please, anyone who's
interested in adding to the conversation, jump right in!
Nicole likened me to a townsperson searching out Frankenstein---with a "torch
and pitchfork". If you're interested, it's still all there in black & white.
The slug thing is a JOKE. Cameron, as an infant--he just slept and
ate---easiest child anyone could ever want. But I thought I'd made a huge mistake
because I didn't feel this overwhelming joy that everyone else does with tiny
infants. At three months, he smiled at me, and I started to think he *was* actually
cute! <G> I still have no overwhelming need to hold others' babies.
My favorite ages are toddlers and teens---the two that *most* people find the
most "choresome" and difficult. I like that they are constantly growing and
evolving and becoming more and more fascinating. Those two ages are my
favorites. Period. (Until they become adults, maybe? <g>)
~Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/7/2003 10:01:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mjsolich@... writes:
Second one was emergency C-section. :-P~~~~~~~~~
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mjsolich@... writes:
> When can I have one and how will you deliver? Sorry, pun<g> I don't "deliver" well---first one was 45 hours after the water broke.
> intended.
>
Second one was emergency C-section. :-P~~~~~~~~~
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/7/03 7:18:36 AM, kellibac@... writes:
<< I clearly remember having a miny breakdown a few months after joining this
list . . . I remember thinking, my God, do those unschooling moms ever screw
up like this? >>
I don't think I know of any mom who's never gotten grumpy and said some
version of NOT NOW (or worse). The corner is turned when your thought is not "they
asked for that," but "I screwed up."
There are parents who never apologize to their children. They think that the
way to maintain their superior position is to justify their mistakes and
blame the children for them instead of even consider that they could humble
themselves to the point of admitting fault.
There's a famous example (used on me and other friends of mine, I know) of
spanking all the kids when you don't know who was truly at fault and don't want
to take the time to find out, and saying "If you didn't do it this time,
there's some other time you did something and didn't get caught."
<<I quickly apologized for my behavior and went on but the fact remains that
parenting for me has
been the most rewarding wonderful, heartbreaking and exhausting job I have
ever had.>
But you're willing to do it to the point of exhaustion. Some parents don't
bother.
They couldn't possible be unschoolers.
<<I remember, very clearly, holding my adopted son Gene Gene in my
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window.>>
I think there are exceptions of mothers who birth naturally and nurse their
babies and maybe the hormones don't kick in right and their mothering instinct
doesn't engage, and there may be adoptive moms whose hormones flow easily and
they get the same kinds of warmth and nighttime waking and bonding with
someone else's infant, but on average, in general, it seems it would be MUCH easier
with one's own child.
I didn't have much free-floating mothering instinct before I had Kirby. I
had never liked to babysit. I didn't have the urge to hold my friends' babies.
But when I was pregnant, the hormones came on STRONGLY and breastfeeding was
a clear and definite physical advantage for me. Before, I had wondered how I
was possibly going to sit still in a chair for half an hour to nurse a baby,
but I found easy to sit for a WHOLE hour, and smell him and touch him and talk
to him and just watch him breathe.
Not everyone has the same level of biochemistry in different levels. I'm
sure different people's biochemistry must be at least as varied as their hair
texture, skin color and shapes of noses. Someday people will know more about
all that, but now it's new and vague.
If we listen to people who say "Your baby needs to learn to be independent,
put him in daycare," that's a danger to bonding and to the child's sense of
confidence and safety.
Sandra
<< I clearly remember having a miny breakdown a few months after joining this
list . . . I remember thinking, my God, do those unschooling moms ever screw
up like this? >>
I don't think I know of any mom who's never gotten grumpy and said some
version of NOT NOW (or worse). The corner is turned when your thought is not "they
asked for that," but "I screwed up."
There are parents who never apologize to their children. They think that the
way to maintain their superior position is to justify their mistakes and
blame the children for them instead of even consider that they could humble
themselves to the point of admitting fault.
There's a famous example (used on me and other friends of mine, I know) of
spanking all the kids when you don't know who was truly at fault and don't want
to take the time to find out, and saying "If you didn't do it this time,
there's some other time you did something and didn't get caught."
<<I quickly apologized for my behavior and went on but the fact remains that
parenting for me has
been the most rewarding wonderful, heartbreaking and exhausting job I have
ever had.>
But you're willing to do it to the point of exhaustion. Some parents don't
bother.
They couldn't possible be unschoolers.
<<I remember, very clearly, holding my adopted son Gene Gene in my
arms at 4 weeks. He was screaming for the third hour (he had terrible colic)
and I just wanted to toss his butt right out the window.>>
I think there are exceptions of mothers who birth naturally and nurse their
babies and maybe the hormones don't kick in right and their mothering instinct
doesn't engage, and there may be adoptive moms whose hormones flow easily and
they get the same kinds of warmth and nighttime waking and bonding with
someone else's infant, but on average, in general, it seems it would be MUCH easier
with one's own child.
I didn't have much free-floating mothering instinct before I had Kirby. I
had never liked to babysit. I didn't have the urge to hold my friends' babies.
But when I was pregnant, the hormones came on STRONGLY and breastfeeding was
a clear and definite physical advantage for me. Before, I had wondered how I
was possibly going to sit still in a chair for half an hour to nurse a baby,
but I found easy to sit for a WHOLE hour, and smell him and touch him and talk
to him and just watch him breathe.
Not everyone has the same level of biochemistry in different levels. I'm
sure different people's biochemistry must be at least as varied as their hair
texture, skin color and shapes of noses. Someday people will know more about
all that, but now it's new and vague.
If we listen to people who say "Your baby needs to learn to be independent,
put him in daycare," that's a danger to bonding and to the child's sense of
confidence and safety.
Sandra
Shyrley
SandraDodd@... wrote:
couldn't possible believe I knew my own dates....-
I looked at the fuzzy picture and said 'Oh, it looks like a peanut.'
The Ob said I should be referred to counselling to explore my 'issues
around having another baby.'
Ahem.
Shyrley who should know better than to joke in Virginia
>In a message dated 8/7/03 3:40:37 AM, ms_fausey@... writes:When I had a ultrasound/sonogram the other week - mainly cos the Ob
>
><< Your comments on babies being big slugs made me sick. Truly, it turned
>my stomach. >>
>
>IT WAS A JOKE.
>
>It was a reference (I'm guessing) to my having said many times that babies
>aren't just grubs, as some people seem to treat them.
>
>
>
couldn't possible believe I knew my own dates....-
I looked at the fuzzy picture and said 'Oh, it looks like a peanut.'
The Ob said I should be referred to counselling to explore my 'issues
around having another baby.'
Ahem.
Shyrley who should know better than to joke in Virginia