Tanya

I would have to agree with many points brought up in this post. One is the reason
I took my 5 year old daughter out of school, MAJOR frustration with the system
and teacher.
Another is feeling totally inadequate, when it comes to unschooling. How do
we get rid of this fear that we aren't "teaching" our children enough?
I am pretty much having all of the fears and anxieties these two women are,
but the two I mentioned are my strongest so far. I've having only been unschooling
my daughter for a few months, so that is probably why it "seems" so difficult
now. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can relax about all of this?

Tanya (in WA)


>From: Catharine Slover <Catharine@...>
>
>Dear Kim and everybody,
>
>My name is Catharine and I'm homeschooling my 7, 4 and 1 - year old girls in

>Texas.
>
>Kim, I can really relate to your pendulum swings between structure and
>unschooling. I've read a lot of John Holt and other unschoolers, read Growing

>Without Schooling and have attended an unschooling conference. But I still

>sometimes feel insecure about unschooling.
>
>I think it's a combination of two factors.
>
>First, I was brainwashed by our "scope and sequence" education culture and
it's
>tough to go against that way of thinking. Intellectually I think unschooling

>makes sense. People remember, and build on, information that they are interested

>in and have a use for. They have to struggle to remember things they are learning

>for a test. Then they promptly forget them. That phenomenon is the best argument

>for unschooling I think. Still, I find myself wanting to organize and quantify
my
>7-year-old's knowledge. It's difficult to stop looking to the "expert" educators

>and institutions for the definitive body of knowledge a child should acquire.

>
>The other reason I get doubtful about unschooling is because I value the concepts

>of duty, responsibility, self-discipline and unselfishness. I guess I worry
that
>my children may become self-absorbed and undisciplined if they only have to

>please themselves. I am old-fashioned in some ways I guess. Still, it wouldn't

>make any sense to do school-at-home as some kind of excercise in moral
>development, would it? That sounds ridiculous when I write it down.
>
>For now we are pretty unstructured (except for ''math time'' when they get
my
>full attention and like it!). I hope that our rules/expectations about the
kids'
>social/personal behavior and the religious influences on them are enough to
form
>good characters.
>
>Anyone else have these worries about the "unschooling character?''
>
>Catharine
>
>
>APPLEKJF@... wrote:
>
>> From: APPLEKJF@...
>>
>> Hello All!
>>
>> My name is Kim and I reside here in Ohio with my husband Ralph and two boys,

>> Justin (11) and Joel (9). We have been "homeschooling" for a bit over a
year
>> now. My understandable frustration with the public school system led me
to
>> take the boys out of an institution and bring them home to be raised by their

>> family.
>>
>> I have had a year of great frustration and stress. Mainly because I keep

>> falling into the "school at home trap". My natural instincts do lead me
to
>> unschooling (always have I guess), but my lack of self-confidence and
>> brainwash from the system through me back into scope and sequence type
>> studies. No, I have not yet relaxed. when I do, I find that all of us are

>> much happier. Then I freak out and start looking to structure our day
>> more!!!! I need some balance here and to make a solid commitment to
>> believing my children are intelligent enough to figure it out.
>>
>> On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is
11,
>> is it wise to unschool him at this point? Soon school transcripts and
>> records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly

>> unschooling? I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they

>> previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
>> concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this???? When the children
are
>> doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some

>> time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf

>> that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep

>> dusting?!
>>
>> I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarassing in fact.
But
>> I truly need the help and advice of "experienced" unschoolers who have had

>> several years under their belts watching their children grow and trusting

>> their children. I want to somewhat settle into a way of living where I am

>> not constantly second guessing myself, irritating my children, feeling
>> totally inadequate, and spending way too much money on things that don't

>> belong in my home! HELP!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> I am looking forward to networking with you all and hearing your advice on
my
>> matters of concern.
>>
>> Red in the Face,
>> Kim
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Did you know each week we feature a ONElist story?
>> http://www.onelist.com
>> How has ONElist changed your life? Please share your story.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Check it out!
>> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
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>http://www.onelist.com
>Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>

Catharine Slover

Dear Kim and everybody,

My name is Catharine and I'm homeschooling my 7, 4 and 1 - year old girls in
Texas.

Kim, I can really relate to your pendulum swings between structure and
unschooling. I've read a lot of John Holt and other unschoolers, read Growing
Without Schooling and have attended an unschooling conference. But I still
sometimes feel insecure about unschooling.

I think it's a combination of two factors.

First, I was brainwashed by our "scope and sequence" education culture and it's
tough to go against that way of thinking. Intellectually I think unschooling
makes sense. People remember, and build on, information that they are interested
in and have a use for. They have to struggle to remember things they are learning
for a test. Then they promptly forget them. That phenomenon is the best argument
for unschooling I think. Still, I find myself wanting to organize and quantify my
7-year-old's knowledge. It's difficult to stop looking to the "expert" educators
and institutions for the definitive body of knowledge a child should acquire.

The other reason I get doubtful about unschooling is because I value the concepts
of duty, responsibility, self-discipline and unselfishness. I guess I worry that
my children may become self-absorbed and undisciplined if they only have to
please themselves. I am old-fashioned in some ways I guess. Still, it wouldn't
make any sense to do school-at-home as some kind of excercise in moral
development, would it? That sounds ridiculous when I write it down.

For now we are pretty unstructured (except for ''math time'' when they get my
full attention and like it!). I hope that our rules/expectations about the kids'
social/personal behavior and the religious influences on them are enough to form
good characters.

Anyone else have these worries about the "unschooling character?''

Catharine


APPLEKJF@... wrote:

> From: APPLEKJF@...
>
> Hello All!
>
> My name is Kim and I reside here in Ohio with my husband Ralph and two boys,
> Justin (11) and Joel (9). We have been "homeschooling" for a bit over a year
> now. My understandable frustration with the public school system led me to
> take the boys out of an institution and bring them home to be raised by their
> family.
>
> I have had a year of great frustration and stress. Mainly because I keep
> falling into the "school at home trap". My natural instincts do lead me to
> unschooling (always have I guess), but my lack of self-confidence and
> brainwash from the system through me back into scope and sequence type
> studies. No, I have not yet relaxed. when I do, I find that all of us are
> much happier. Then I freak out and start looking to structure our day
> more!!!! I need some balance here and to make a solid commitment to
> believing my children are intelligent enough to figure it out.
>
> On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is 11,
> is it wise to unschool him at this point? Soon school transcripts and
> records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly
> unschooling? I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they
> previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
> concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this???? When the children are
> doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some
> time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf
> that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
> dusting?!
>
> I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarassing in fact. But
> I truly need the help and advice of "experienced" unschoolers who have had
> several years under their belts watching their children grow and trusting
> their children. I want to somewhat settle into a way of living where I am
> not constantly second guessing myself, irritating my children, feeling
> totally inadequate, and spending way too much money on things that don't
> belong in my home! HELP!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I am looking forward to networking with you all and hearing your advice on my
> matters of concern.
>
> Red in the Face,
> Kim
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Did you know each week we feature a ONElist story?
> http://www.onelist.com
> How has ONElist changed your life? Please share your story.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/99 6:30:46 AM, tbone@... writes:

<< Another is feeling totally inadequate, when it comes to unschooling. How do
we get rid of this fear that we aren't "teaching" our children enough?
I am pretty much having all of the fears and anxieties these two women are,
but the two I mentioned are my strongest so far. I've having only been
unschooling
my daughter for a few months, so that is probably why it "seems" so difficult
now. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can relax about all of this?
>>

Hi - I'm Sharon Vander Ende in Kentucky -- with two grand unschoolers, Nick
(9) and Emma Rose (6). I think one thing which helps is transitioning from
what we're teaching to what they're learning. I was taught many things in
school, but retained those which I wanted to learn. I think the same is true
at home -- and we waste less time and experience less aggravation when we
focus on what our children want to learn rather than what we want to or feel
we should teach.

We facilitate, we provide, we support, we explore, we introduce -- but they
learn or not, as they see fit. :-)

Sharon

A.Y.

In order to help my fears, I have to stop comparing my kids to other children.
If I do that, then I forget of wonderful and unique each one is.
My children are great, well mannered kids. Everyone who meets them thinks they are
wonderful. They carry on conversations with adult and children alike. They know many
things, much of which can't be measured in any way.
I keep telling myself, that the "other" stuff will be learned much more quickly and
happily, and thoroughly when they have a need and want to know it.
Yes, its hard.... There are lots of doubts, but I know in my heart they are great
very happy kids.
An if all else fails, I talk to a friend who is in our homeschool group. She does
more structure than I, and her kids are more book smart than mine, but she still
reminds me off how wonderful they are and all the things they DO know.
Ann

Tanya wrote:

> From: "Tanya" <tbone@...>
>
> I would have to agree with many points brought up in this post. One is the reason
> I took my 5 year old daughter out of school, MAJOR frustration with the system
> and teacher.
> Another is feeling totally inadequate, when it comes to unschooling. How do
> we get rid of this fear that we aren't "teaching" our children enough?
> I am pretty much having all of the fears and anxieties these two women are,
> but the two I mentioned are my strongest so far. I've having only been unschooling
> my daughter for a few months, so that is probably why it "seems" so difficult
> now. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can relax about all of this?
>
> Tanya (in WA)
>
> >From: Catharine Slover <Catharine@...>
> >
> >Dear Kim and everybody,
> >
> >My name is Catharine and I'm homeschooling my 7, 4 and 1 - year old girls in
>
> >Texas.
> >
> >Kim, I can really relate to your pendulum swings between structure and
> >unschooling. I've read a lot of John Holt and other unschoolers, read Growing
>
> >Without Schooling and have attended an unschooling conference. But I still
>
> >sometimes feel insecure about unschooling.
> >
> >I think it's a combination of two factors.
> >
> >First, I was brainwashed by our "scope and sequence" education culture and
> it's
> >tough to go against that way of thinking. Intellectually I think unschooling
>
> >makes sense. People remember, and build on, information that they are interested
>
> >in and have a use for. They have to struggle to remember things they are learning
>
> >for a test. Then they promptly forget them. That phenomenon is the best argument
>
> >for unschooling I think. Still, I find myself wanting to organize and quantify
> my
> >7-year-old's knowledge. It's difficult to stop looking to the "expert" educators
>
> >and institutions for the definitive body of knowledge a child should acquire.
>
> >
> >The other reason I get doubtful about unschooling is because I value the concepts
>
> >of duty, responsibility, self-discipline and unselfishness. I guess I worry
> that
> >my children may become self-absorbed and undisciplined if they only have to
>
> >please themselves. I am old-fashioned in some ways I guess. Still, it wouldn't
>
> >make any sense to do school-at-home as some kind of excercise in moral
> >development, would it? That sounds ridiculous when I write it down.
> >
> >For now we are pretty unstructured (except for ''math time'' when they get
> my
> >full attention and like it!). I hope that our rules/expectations about the
> kids'
> >social/personal behavior and the religious influences on them are enough to
> form
> >good characters.
> >
> >Anyone else have these worries about the "unschooling character?''
> >
> >Catharine
> >
> >
> >APPLEKJF@... wrote:
> >
> >> From: APPLEKJF@...
> >>
> >> Hello All!
> >>
> >> My name is Kim and I reside here in Ohio with my husband Ralph and two boys,
>
> >> Justin (11) and Joel (9). We have been "homeschooling" for a bit over a
> year
> >> now. My understandable frustration with the public school system led me
> to
> >> take the boys out of an institution and bring them home to be raised by their
>
> >> family.
> >>
> >> I have had a year of great frustration and stress. Mainly because I keep
>
> >> falling into the "school at home trap". My natural instincts do lead me
> to
> >> unschooling (always have I guess), but my lack of self-confidence and
> >> brainwash from the system through me back into scope and sequence type
> >> studies. No, I have not yet relaxed. when I do, I find that all of us are
>
> >> much happier. Then I freak out and start looking to structure our day
> >> more!!!! I need some balance here and to make a solid commitment to
> >> believing my children are intelligent enough to figure it out.
> >>
> >> On to my questions... Since I have just started a year ago, and Justin is
> 11,
> >> is it wise to unschool him at this point? Soon school transcripts and
> >> records for college will come into play, how do I manage this if I am truly
>
> >> unschooling? I have noticed that my boys backslide, lose the knowledge they
>
> >> previously displayed, when we slack off and become more informal. This
> >> concerns me greatly, can anyone help me with this???? When the children
> are
> >> doing close to nothing (usually not a problem with Justin), for quite some
>
> >> time, how do you manage that at my boys' ages? All those books on the shelf
>
> >> that they never touch, how do you get them interested, or do I just keep
>
> >> dusting?!
> >>
> >> I apologize for sounding so ignorant... it is quite embarassing in fact.
> But
> >> I truly need the help and advice of "experienced" unschoolers who have had
>
> >> several years under their belts watching their children grow and trusting
>
> >> their children. I want to somewhat settle into a way of living where I am
>
> >> not constantly second guessing myself, irritating my children, feeling
> >> totally inadequate, and spending way too much money on things that don't
>
> >> belong in my home! HELP!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >> I am looking forward to networking with you all and hearing your advice on
> my
> >> matters of concern.
> >>
> >> Red in the Face,
> >> Kim
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> Did you know each week we feature a ONElist story?
> >> http://www.onelist.com
> >> How has ONElist changed your life? Please share your story.
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >> Check it out!
> >> http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >How has ONElist changed your life?
> >http://www.onelist.com
> >Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Check it out!
> >http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily...
> http://www.onelist.com
> ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/1/99 10:04:37 PM PST, Catharine@... writes:

<< e other reason I get doubtful about unschooling is because I value the
concepts
of duty, responsibility, self-discipline and unselfishness. I guess I worry
that
my children may become self-absorbed and undisciplined if they only have to
please themselves. I am old-fashioned in some ways I guess. Still, it
wouldn't
make any sense to do school-at-home as some kind of excercise in moral
development, would it? That sounds ridiculous when I write it down.

For now we are pretty unstructured (except for ''math time'' when they get my
full attention and like it!). I hope that our rules/expectations about the
kids'
social/personal behavior and the religious influences on them are enough to
form
good characters.

Anyone else have these worries about the "unschooling character?''
>>

Hi Catharine,

It is easy to get caught up in the worry of "what about learning some
structure". Here is what I have discovered.

My DS (16) is in Civil Air Patrol - he must be there at the appointed time,
in uniform, ready to work. He has a job at a theatre, he must be there on
time, ready to work, in uniform. He likes the church youth group, he must be
there on time, ready for whatever it is they are planning (He is a student
leader there). Plenty of structure. not to mention orthondist appointments,
time arranged with friends, etc. He has learned about standing in line, by
standing in lines that mean something. (Grocery store, movie theatres, "chow
line" on camping trips)

DD (13) has voice/piano lesson, she has to be there on time, or lose some of
the lesson time. She babysits a lot - she must be ready to go on time, or be
deemed unreliable and lose some jobs.

DDs (8, 6, 3) have Spanish lessons - they must be ready to go on time, or
lose out on some of the lesson ( they learned the hard way...10 minutes late
for a 45 minute lesson eliminates one whole game they can play.!)

There are PLENTY of real life things that help teach structure, timeliness,
courtesy, etc. Schools manufacture these things, and are not very effective
at it. Have you ever SEEN a line-up of kids at a school?? All pushing and
shoving and trying to be first.... That won't go over real well in the real
world....

It takes self-discipline to get yourself ready for the things you want to do,
it takes structure sometimes. Because our children "follow their bliss" in
their educational choices, because we see education in everything we do
doesn't mean that they don't have responsibilities too. We have a large
family (7th child is on the way) - even the 1-1/2 year old is encouraged to
pick up her toys, take her dish to the sink (where mom or dad or sibling puts
it in sink/dishwasher). These things are naturally learned as being part of
a family, and are an important part of their overall education. Once a week
or so, the children are required to pick up their rooms, they don't have to
keep them spotless all the time, but periodically they must be "company
ready".

Step into the adventure, and notice things that already teach the stuff you
are worried about, soon you will see a "whole life education" forming!!!

Mary

Catharine Slover

Hi Mary,

This is Catharine. Thanks for the great message about homelife structure and its
character-building power. The reminders about structure in family life really hit
home. I guess one can be an unschooler and still not be too ''permissive.'' (Or maybe
the point is that often the unschooled kids learn the consequences without even
causing the parents' authority to be to taxed...)
Wow, seven kids! That's great!