Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] champagne moment...
Ron and Stephanie
Tracy-
Are you a LLL
member?
Stephanie
Tracy Oldfield
care to elaborate ????? I don't have wrinkled stockings,
nor am I a peroxide blonde (airplane blonde, as someone I know calls it...)
maneater.... but I do have that accent :-)
Utterly intrigued in Huddersfield
Tracy
----- Original Message -----From: BrownSent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 8:35 PMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] champagne moment...Oh gosh, Tracy, now you've opened up a whole new vision of yourself for me. <g>Carol
Tracy Oldfield wrote:
I'm in West Yorks, 'Last of the Summer Wine' country if anyone's familiar with it...
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In a message dated 4/5/00 2:36:58 AM Central Daylight Time, sulan@...
writes:
<< It is absolutely the most superior wonder food in existence
on the planet and no informed person could possibly deny that for their
child. >>
OK - this is what I was talking about. Tracy (a LLL leader, and a firm
believer in the benefits of breastfeeding) emailed me off list and asked
about my reasons for feeding my children the way I do. She presented her
question in a respectful, adult fashion. Because of her attitude I was happy
to respond to her. This, on the other hand, is nothing but inflammatory. I
could respond to this post by explaining some of the valid reasons for
bottlefeeding, but I won't because you don't deserve my consideration. You
established that with the tone of your post. Clearly you decided not to
honor the request that I made about keeping this kind of attitude off of the
list, or even posting about breastfeeding under the subject line
"breastfeeding".
There ARE valid reasons for bottlefeeding. Perhaps one might have to be
willing to expand one's viewpoint in order to understand them. We should all
be familiar with that concept since we are unschoolers.
Get over yourself and your own opinions. BTW, I was a licensed
breastfeeding consultant and support leader for several years and therefore
am quite familiar with all the merits of breastfeeding, so you don't need to
go there.
Feel free to flame away - it will only further establish the fact that you
have a tremendous attitude problem and are judgmental and meddling. How
other people feed their children is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You can not pass
any kind of legitimate judgment on them. I'll say it once again - get over
yourself. Nobody placed you in charge of monitoring my children's nutrition.
Geesh.
writes:
<< It is absolutely the most superior wonder food in existence
on the planet and no informed person could possibly deny that for their
child. >>
OK - this is what I was talking about. Tracy (a LLL leader, and a firm
believer in the benefits of breastfeeding) emailed me off list and asked
about my reasons for feeding my children the way I do. She presented her
question in a respectful, adult fashion. Because of her attitude I was happy
to respond to her. This, on the other hand, is nothing but inflammatory. I
could respond to this post by explaining some of the valid reasons for
bottlefeeding, but I won't because you don't deserve my consideration. You
established that with the tone of your post. Clearly you decided not to
honor the request that I made about keeping this kind of attitude off of the
list, or even posting about breastfeeding under the subject line
"breastfeeding".
There ARE valid reasons for bottlefeeding. Perhaps one might have to be
willing to expand one's viewpoint in order to understand them. We should all
be familiar with that concept since we are unschoolers.
Get over yourself and your own opinions. BTW, I was a licensed
breastfeeding consultant and support leader for several years and therefore
am quite familiar with all the merits of breastfeeding, so you don't need to
go there.
Feel free to flame away - it will only further establish the fact that you
have a tremendous attitude problem and are judgmental and meddling. How
other people feed their children is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You can not pass
any kind of legitimate judgment on them. I'll say it once again - get over
yourself. Nobody placed you in charge of monitoring my children's nutrition.
Geesh.
Tracy Oldfield
Probably more like the woman who runs Sid's Cafe (which really
exists) can't remember her name, but younger :-)
Tracy
----- Original Message -----From: BrownSent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 5:50 AMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] champagne moment...TracySo many images to chose from! So if you aren't the blonde on a bicycle, well, are you a Norah Batty look alike? <ducking and running>
Carol
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/00 12:21:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
fxfireob@... writes:
<< imo sulan@... could have said, if she was interested in a hearty
discussion rather than a full blown fight: 'There ARE valid reasons for
bottlefeeding. '(quote from sulan's post) then added her personal reasons.
it's too bad you didn't express these reasons it would have helped 'expand
one's viewpoint in order to understand' (another quote from sulan's post).
then you could have politely disagreed stating that even though informed,
some
people would still not chose breastfeeding and this decision does not reflect
on a person's intellect. >>
from this perspective the
comment that upset 'sulan' makes sense but from the perspective of a person
who has chosen not to breastfeed, for whatever reason, i can see the
statement as insensitive and possibly argumentative.
Susan,
I think somehow it has gotten twisted around. The above quotes that you have
attributed to sulan as argumentative were actually my words - I don't want
you to think that sulan was guilty when actually it was me! Also, these
words WERE written from the viewpoint of a person who has chose not to
breastfeed. It gets confusing with all the cutting and pasting.
Could my words be read as argumentative? Yep, I admit it. Was I angry?
Absolutely. Lynda suggests that it would have been helpful for me to state
what some of those valid reasons (for not breastfeeding) were. But that is
my whole point - it is absolutely irrelevant what they were! They are no
one's business and no one should pass judgment on my method of feeding my
child for ANY reason!
Notice that I never, EVER entered into a debate about whether breastmilk is
best for babies. In fact, I stated that of course it IS best for babies.
But some felt it necessary to argue the virtues of breastmilk and, taking it
a step further, compare formula to trash from a dumpster. Why, in order to
show how good one thing is, is it necessary to state how bad another thing
is??? It's true - the dumpster comments were NOT directed solely at me. But
they definitely called into question the judgment of people who give their
children formula. The fact is, it was physically impossible for me to nurse
this baby. If I followed the "dumpster" line of thinking and refused to use
formula, then my baby would have starved. Am I making a ridiculous argument
here? Yes, of course! I wouldn't let my baby starve! But it seems to me to
be ridiculously obvious that if you can't nurse, then you use formula, and
there's absolutely no sense in dwelling on its "dumpster"-like qualities. It
doesn't do anyone any good to hear about them, and it could easily be seen
(NOT just by me, but by numerous folks on the list who have emailed me) as
inflammatory, smug, and self-satisfied.
I am not responding to your post in order to further this - I just wanted to
make sure that argumentative statements attributed to sulan were correctly
attributed to me. Fair is fair, and I'll take the rap for my own words!
Thanks for your thoughts on all this. I love your posts, and look forward to
more.
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors
fxfireob@... writes:
<< imo sulan@... could have said, if she was interested in a hearty
discussion rather than a full blown fight: 'There ARE valid reasons for
bottlefeeding. '(quote from sulan's post) then added her personal reasons.
it's too bad you didn't express these reasons it would have helped 'expand
one's viewpoint in order to understand' (another quote from sulan's post).
then you could have politely disagreed stating that even though informed,
some
people would still not chose breastfeeding and this decision does not reflect
on a person's intellect. >>
from this perspective the
comment that upset 'sulan' makes sense but from the perspective of a person
who has chosen not to breastfeed, for whatever reason, i can see the
statement as insensitive and possibly argumentative.
Susan,
I think somehow it has gotten twisted around. The above quotes that you have
attributed to sulan as argumentative were actually my words - I don't want
you to think that sulan was guilty when actually it was me! Also, these
words WERE written from the viewpoint of a person who has chose not to
breastfeed. It gets confusing with all the cutting and pasting.
Could my words be read as argumentative? Yep, I admit it. Was I angry?
Absolutely. Lynda suggests that it would have been helpful for me to state
what some of those valid reasons (for not breastfeeding) were. But that is
my whole point - it is absolutely irrelevant what they were! They are no
one's business and no one should pass judgment on my method of feeding my
child for ANY reason!
Notice that I never, EVER entered into a debate about whether breastmilk is
best for babies. In fact, I stated that of course it IS best for babies.
But some felt it necessary to argue the virtues of breastmilk and, taking it
a step further, compare formula to trash from a dumpster. Why, in order to
show how good one thing is, is it necessary to state how bad another thing
is??? It's true - the dumpster comments were NOT directed solely at me. But
they definitely called into question the judgment of people who give their
children formula. The fact is, it was physically impossible for me to nurse
this baby. If I followed the "dumpster" line of thinking and refused to use
formula, then my baby would have starved. Am I making a ridiculous argument
here? Yes, of course! I wouldn't let my baby starve! But it seems to me to
be ridiculously obvious that if you can't nurse, then you use formula, and
there's absolutely no sense in dwelling on its "dumpster"-like qualities. It
doesn't do anyone any good to hear about them, and it could easily be seen
(NOT just by me, but by numerous folks on the list who have emailed me) as
inflammatory, smug, and self-satisfied.
I am not responding to your post in order to further this - I just wanted to
make sure that argumentative statements attributed to sulan were correctly
attributed to me. Fair is fair, and I'll take the rap for my own words!
Thanks for your thoughts on all this. I love your posts, and look forward to
more.
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/00 8:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
fxfireob@... writes:
<< hi kim,
because there was no name at the bottom the only reference i could find was
sulan... at the top of the quoted stuff on lynda's post and i assumed that
was
the person her comments were addressed to. >>
Susan,
I've answered your post off-list to avoid dragging this tired topic out any
further.
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors
fxfireob@... writes:
<< hi kim,
because there was no name at the bottom the only reference i could find was
sulan... at the top of the quoted stuff on lynda's post and i assumed that
was
the person her comments were addressed to. >>
Susan,
I've answered your post off-list to avoid dragging this tired topic out any
further.
*** KiM ***
runs with scissors