my lovely daughter
Jeff & Kate Kerr
We are having a problem I don't know how to deal with. My youngest,
Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful. I don't mean that in a disrespectful
way, I mean she is curious about everything, into everything, and wants
what she wants right now. She is bright and funny and a good mother to
her guinea pig. She considers herself an artist (I consider her one
also, she's got a talent for it) and seems to have the temperament of a
true artist (dedicated, true to her vision, etc...).
We have never spanked, but we used to give time outs (they don't work by
the way. Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.
Here's why: Storey has only ever wanted me to comfort her. When she
was a baby only I was allowed to hold her. She would scream if anyone
else did. She would wake up if she was set down to sleep (even though
she was sleeping right next to me, I needed to have my arms around
her). She nursed and would never take a bottle of breast milk (my
husband still has a hard time with this - our oldest allowed him to
bottle feed occasionally). I spent many years being "touched out"
because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.
My mother-in-law says that Storey is spoiled and rude because Storey
doesn't like to be around her (whereas our son is perfect and easy - she
actually says that in front of the kids). I say that mil has made it
very clear to Storey that she doesn't like her. Storey responds to mil
by not wanting to be near her, not answering her when spoken to.
We spent the afternoon at my in-laws this Sunday and Storey sat on my
lap. Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and to
get off. I kept repeating that she was fine and to let her be. Finally
I'd had enough and asked Storey to sit next to me, but that meant that
she would be sitting next to her grandmother and Storey did not want to
do that.
Storey had a melt down and was crying saying she didn't want to be
there, didn't want to come in the first place and could we please go
home. Instead of punishing her for what mil thinks was manipulative
behavior, I held her and talked calmly with her explaining that daddy
and Robin were having a good time, we had just gotten there and were
there to have lunch with the grandparents and that we would be leaving
soon, but not right now. (By the time we were ready to go Storey and
Robin were making pots - my in-laws are potters - and neither of them
wanted to go.)
Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband in
private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to behave
properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks this
also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's raised
7 kids and knows what she is talking about (btw, of those 7, all except
my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been in and
out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and punished
harshly and often.).
So now my husband is saying that maybe we should have her professionally
evaluated, maybe there really is something wrong with her. We ended up
in a long heated discussion over this. I disagree with him. Yes Storey
is needy, but she's 5, not 30. Yes Storey is a handful, but it's ok
because she is my daughter and I want to help her and be with her.
So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea of
professional evaluations? Do they do any good? I say we should just
raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so we
seem to be doing something right. But maybe my husband has a point?
I'm really confused. (Maybe I'm just looking for people to agree with
me? To help me back up what I think is the right way?)
My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this.
Sorry for the length, thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
Kate
who is a little confused right now
Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful. I don't mean that in a disrespectful
way, I mean she is curious about everything, into everything, and wants
what she wants right now. She is bright and funny and a good mother to
her guinea pig. She considers herself an artist (I consider her one
also, she's got a talent for it) and seems to have the temperament of a
true artist (dedicated, true to her vision, etc...).
We have never spanked, but we used to give time outs (they don't work by
the way. Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.
Here's why: Storey has only ever wanted me to comfort her. When she
was a baby only I was allowed to hold her. She would scream if anyone
else did. She would wake up if she was set down to sleep (even though
she was sleeping right next to me, I needed to have my arms around
her). She nursed and would never take a bottle of breast milk (my
husband still has a hard time with this - our oldest allowed him to
bottle feed occasionally). I spent many years being "touched out"
because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.
My mother-in-law says that Storey is spoiled and rude because Storey
doesn't like to be around her (whereas our son is perfect and easy - she
actually says that in front of the kids). I say that mil has made it
very clear to Storey that she doesn't like her. Storey responds to mil
by not wanting to be near her, not answering her when spoken to.
We spent the afternoon at my in-laws this Sunday and Storey sat on my
lap. Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and to
get off. I kept repeating that she was fine and to let her be. Finally
I'd had enough and asked Storey to sit next to me, but that meant that
she would be sitting next to her grandmother and Storey did not want to
do that.
Storey had a melt down and was crying saying she didn't want to be
there, didn't want to come in the first place and could we please go
home. Instead of punishing her for what mil thinks was manipulative
behavior, I held her and talked calmly with her explaining that daddy
and Robin were having a good time, we had just gotten there and were
there to have lunch with the grandparents and that we would be leaving
soon, but not right now. (By the time we were ready to go Storey and
Robin were making pots - my in-laws are potters - and neither of them
wanted to go.)
Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband in
private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to behave
properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks this
also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's raised
7 kids and knows what she is talking about (btw, of those 7, all except
my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been in and
out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and punished
harshly and often.).
So now my husband is saying that maybe we should have her professionally
evaluated, maybe there really is something wrong with her. We ended up
in a long heated discussion over this. I disagree with him. Yes Storey
is needy, but she's 5, not 30. Yes Storey is a handful, but it's ok
because she is my daughter and I want to help her and be with her.
So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea of
professional evaluations? Do they do any good? I say we should just
raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so we
seem to be doing something right. But maybe my husband has a point?
I'm really confused. (Maybe I'm just looking for people to agree with
me? To help me back up what I think is the right way?)
My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this.
Sorry for the length, thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
Kate
who is a little confused right now
Helen Hegener
Wow, Kate. From reading your post - and my *only* perspective comes
from that so please keep this in that context - I don't think the
problem is with your lovely daughter (what a wonderful image!), but
with others who don't want to take the time or make the effort you've
made to understand what's happening - and why. It seems to me that
you've got a good handle on the situation, so my advice would be to
keep doing just what you're doing and try to keep the MiL from
negatively affecting your daughter any more than she already has.
You mentioned being in marriage counseling - could Storey be picking
up on the vibes between you and your husband and reacting in the only
reasonable way she knows? As far as professional evaluations, I've
never had - or wanted - any experience with those, so I can't advise
in that department. But my instincts have always been to listen to my
kids when I wasn't sure how to proceed. Even when they were small and
seemingly inexperienced they knew an awful lot about what was going
on, and why, and what could or should be done to make things right.
Helen
from that so please keep this in that context - I don't think the
problem is with your lovely daughter (what a wonderful image!), but
with others who don't want to take the time or make the effort you've
made to understand what's happening - and why. It seems to me that
you've got a good handle on the situation, so my advice would be to
keep doing just what you're doing and try to keep the MiL from
negatively affecting your daughter any more than she already has.
You mentioned being in marriage counseling - could Storey be picking
up on the vibes between you and your husband and reacting in the only
reasonable way she knows? As far as professional evaluations, I've
never had - or wanted - any experience with those, so I can't advise
in that department. But my instincts have always been to listen to my
kids when I wasn't sure how to proceed. Even when they were small and
seemingly inexperienced they knew an awful lot about what was going
on, and why, and what could or should be done to make things right.
Helen
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 10:00:35 AM, windystreet@... writes:
<< So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea of
professional evaluations? Do they do any good? I say we should just
raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so we
seem to be doing something right. >>
You could easily give someone $100 to tell you you should put her in school.
You KNOW that's not the answer, but what other answers could possibly be
expected to come from a professional who became "professional" by 18 or 20 years
in school?
Do you think drugs or daycare would help?
First brainstorm with your husband what "professional help" he thinks would
help. Play therapy? (Are there serious home problems? I doubt it--you said
this was from birth, and play therapy isn't going to get to a genetic
level--they're looking for trauma or odd relationships or behaviors on the part of
other family members in her life which she would act out with dolls or puppets.)
Maybe a compromise would be discuss it with your husband, get some books to
read together, and say if she's still having such problems at eight, or nine,
you'll consider having someone else talk to her.
<<My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this.>>
I'd mention it.
Two friends of mine are in counselling and the counsellor has a GREAT plan.
One of their major problems is the relationship between the dad and the middle
child, older of two boys. That child is most like the mom (hmmmm) and the
dad is MEAN to him. So instead of first working on the marriage and later,
maybe, move on to the child, the counsellor uses 20 minutes of each session to
discuss how it's going with that child, and how the dad's changing his approach
and how the mom feels about it.
Lots of the marriage stuff shows in that.
And if that's changed, the husband will see changes in the relationship with
his wife, because part of his focus is that he doesn't WANT the boy to be so
much like his mom.
It's kinda flashingly (embarrassingly) obvious from the outside, but close up
the dad can't see any of it.
So 1/3 is that, 1/3 is personal relations, and I think the other 1/3 might be
finances. (I forget.)
That might apply not one bit, but then it might, a touch.
Sandra
<< So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea of
professional evaluations? Do they do any good? I say we should just
raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so we
seem to be doing something right. >>
You could easily give someone $100 to tell you you should put her in school.
You KNOW that's not the answer, but what other answers could possibly be
expected to come from a professional who became "professional" by 18 or 20 years
in school?
Do you think drugs or daycare would help?
First brainstorm with your husband what "professional help" he thinks would
help. Play therapy? (Are there serious home problems? I doubt it--you said
this was from birth, and play therapy isn't going to get to a genetic
level--they're looking for trauma or odd relationships or behaviors on the part of
other family members in her life which she would act out with dolls or puppets.)
Maybe a compromise would be discuss it with your husband, get some books to
read together, and say if she's still having such problems at eight, or nine,
you'll consider having someone else talk to her.
<<My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this.>>
I'd mention it.
Two friends of mine are in counselling and the counsellor has a GREAT plan.
One of their major problems is the relationship between the dad and the middle
child, older of two boys. That child is most like the mom (hmmmm) and the
dad is MEAN to him. So instead of first working on the marriage and later,
maybe, move on to the child, the counsellor uses 20 minutes of each session to
discuss how it's going with that child, and how the dad's changing his approach
and how the mom feels about it.
Lots of the marriage stuff shows in that.
And if that's changed, the husband will see changes in the relationship with
his wife, because part of his focus is that he doesn't WANT the boy to be so
much like his mom.
It's kinda flashingly (embarrassingly) obvious from the outside, but close up
the dad can't see any of it.
So 1/3 is that, 1/3 is personal relations, and I think the other 1/3 might be
finances. (I forget.)
That might apply not one bit, but then it might, a touch.
Sandra
saffronwoman
***You mentioned being in marriage counseling -
could Storey be picking
up on the vibes between you and your husband
and reacting in the only
reasonable way she knows?
Helen****
Well, both of our kids have certainly seen some tension around the
house in the past few months. Maybe it's been happening longer than my
husband and I realize. But the counseling is really helping and we all
see the changes for the better in our family.
As far as Storey's behaviour, it's only gotten better over time. She
is much less difficult to be with now, compared with even a year ago.
So I don't think that her "rude and disrespectful" (mil's quote)
behaviour is related to our marriage. Storey has never (even as a
baby) put up with people who don't like her, she has a great bullshit
meter and refuses to be with or talk to people who she feels are
condescending toward her or her brother.
I really feel that my mil is just demanding something (respect?) from
some one who feels that she doesn't deserve it. I mean, why would
Storey want to be kind to her grandmother when her grandmother has
never hugged her or said any kind word to her? The kind words are
reserved for our son.
Kate
feeling a little better now that I've been able to get this stuff off
my chest.
could Storey be picking
up on the vibes between you and your husband
and reacting in the only
reasonable way she knows?
Helen****
Well, both of our kids have certainly seen some tension around the
house in the past few months. Maybe it's been happening longer than my
husband and I realize. But the counseling is really helping and we all
see the changes for the better in our family.
As far as Storey's behaviour, it's only gotten better over time. She
is much less difficult to be with now, compared with even a year ago.
So I don't think that her "rude and disrespectful" (mil's quote)
behaviour is related to our marriage. Storey has never (even as a
baby) put up with people who don't like her, she has a great bullshit
meter and refuses to be with or talk to people who she feels are
condescending toward her or her brother.
I really feel that my mil is just demanding something (respect?) from
some one who feels that she doesn't deserve it. I mean, why would
Storey want to be kind to her grandmother when her grandmother has
never hugged her or said any kind word to her? The kind words are
reserved for our son.
Kate
feeling a little better now that I've been able to get this stuff off
my chest.
Jon and Rue Kream
> Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and toget off.
**If anyone needs professional help to learn how to 'behave properly', it's
your mother in law. Have you tried telling her privately that she needs to
stop interfering in your mothering?
Your daughter needs what she needs - whatever her age. You're absolutely
doing the right thing by giving her what she needs from you. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-=-We are having a problem I don't know how to deal with. My youngest,
Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful.
We have a dd who is of similar temperament - she's even illustrated a cover for a homeschooling book, so there are great outcomes when you are blessed with such a child! - but this is NOT an "easy" child. Good for you for taking this senstive approach! (And good for my wife, Maureen for leading me to this point of view because I was NOT in agreement at first) The irony is I'm like this myself and wasn't able to understand it. I think it had been beaten out of me with Dad's belt and A LOT of "those" looks that threaten more violence if not complying with their wishes.
-=-We have never spanked
We did in the early days to no good results, esp. with the "difficult" child - IMHO it destroys people & it does NOT build them or "character." I think you know this, but I hate the JUDGEMENTS out there. >:O(
Now that our dd is 15, our respective mil's are realizing that this IS the right way - tho they could not do it themselves now and could NOT buy the concept when she was 5. My mom is so uptight and Maureen's mom is too rash/used to hitting.
-=-When she was a baby only I was allowed to hold her.
Maybe try the "Highly Sensitive Child" book so often recommended here! Might helps you and maybe your husband undestand her.
-=-Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband in
private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to behave
properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks this
also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's raised
7 kids and knows what she is talking about
Maybe take a look at http://www.bullyonline.org generally and maybe http://www.bullyonline.org/familybully/index.htm for help with mil. Great site! Helped me see where the lines of help/hurt are a lot more clearly.
-=-(btw, of those 7, all except
my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been in and
out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and punished
harshly and often.)
I see a crisis in parenting in this world - very sad to me :O(
-=-So now my husband is saying that maybe we should have her professionally
evaluated
Well, it's my belief that this will help if you feel there is a need. If not, it will likely do damage. No one wants to be under the microscope for acting naturally, of course. Our dd has been assessed for CAPD and has some counselling but only as a teen. It's a hard choice because intervention by "authorities" can hurt as much as help, IMHO. It's like back surgery - might work - might be worse. :O)
Anyway, my humble thots are those brilliant, interesting, wonderful type people,
Tim T
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful.
We have a dd who is of similar temperament - she's even illustrated a cover for a homeschooling book, so there are great outcomes when you are blessed with such a child! - but this is NOT an "easy" child. Good for you for taking this senstive approach! (And good for my wife, Maureen for leading me to this point of view because I was NOT in agreement at first) The irony is I'm like this myself and wasn't able to understand it. I think it had been beaten out of me with Dad's belt and A LOT of "those" looks that threaten more violence if not complying with their wishes.
-=-We have never spanked
We did in the early days to no good results, esp. with the "difficult" child - IMHO it destroys people & it does NOT build them or "character." I think you know this, but I hate the JUDGEMENTS out there. >:O(
Now that our dd is 15, our respective mil's are realizing that this IS the right way - tho they could not do it themselves now and could NOT buy the concept when she was 5. My mom is so uptight and Maureen's mom is too rash/used to hitting.
-=-When she was a baby only I was allowed to hold her.
Maybe try the "Highly Sensitive Child" book so often recommended here! Might helps you and maybe your husband undestand her.
-=-Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband in
private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to behave
properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks this
also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's raised
7 kids and knows what she is talking about
Maybe take a look at http://www.bullyonline.org generally and maybe http://www.bullyonline.org/familybully/index.htm for help with mil. Great site! Helped me see where the lines of help/hurt are a lot more clearly.
-=-(btw, of those 7, all except
my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been in and
out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and punished
harshly and often.)
I see a crisis in parenting in this world - very sad to me :O(
-=-So now my husband is saying that maybe we should have her professionally
evaluated
Well, it's my belief that this will help if you feel there is a need. If not, it will likely do damage. No one wants to be under the microscope for acting naturally, of course. Our dd has been assessed for CAPD and has some counselling but only as a teen. It's a hard choice because intervention by "authorities" can hurt as much as help, IMHO. It's like back surgery - might work - might be worse. :O)
Anyway, my humble thots are those brilliant, interesting, wonderful type people,
Tim T
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 10:54:51 AM, windystreet@... writes:
<< I really feel that my mil is just demanding something (respect?) from
some one who feels that she doesn't deserve it. I mean, why would
Storey want to be kind to her grandmother when her grandmother has
never hugged her or said any kind word to her? The kind words are
reserved for our son.
for too long.
When there's tension at their house, I take a kid for a walk, either in the
back yard (they have turtles, and grapes, and pecans) or down the alley (a
ditch, lots of interesting alley-stuff), or out the front, into the neighbornood.
Every house and tree is different, and it's a good tension breaking set of
behaviors. We haven't LEFT, yet we have. There's exercise, fresh air, and the
grandmother has a breather too. She's not used to a house full of people
anymore.
Sandra
<< I really feel that my mil is just demanding something (respect?) from
some one who feels that she doesn't deserve it. I mean, why would
Storey want to be kind to her grandmother when her grandmother has
never hugged her or said any kind word to her? The kind words are
reserved for our son.
>>My mother in law is difficult. Not as bad as yours sounds, but not too fun
for too long.
When there's tension at their house, I take a kid for a walk, either in the
back yard (they have turtles, and grapes, and pecans) or down the alley (a
ditch, lots of interesting alley-stuff), or out the front, into the neighbornood.
Every house and tree is different, and it's a good tension breaking set of
behaviors. We haven't LEFT, yet we have. There's exercise, fresh air, and the
grandmother has a breather too. She's not used to a house full of people
anymore.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
>What would your dh and mil have to say about the above paragraphs?
> As far as Storey's behaviour, it's only gotten better over time. She
> is much less difficult to be with now, compared with even a year ago.
> So I don't think that her "rude and disrespectful" (mil's quote)
> behaviour is related to our marriage. Storey has never (even as a
> baby) put up with people who don't like her, she has a great bullshit
> meter and refuses to be with or talk to people who she feels are
> condescending toward her or her brother.
>
> I really feel that my mil is just demanding something (respect?) from
> some one who feels that she doesn't deserve it. I mean, why would
> Storey want to be kind to her grandmother when her grandmother has
> never hugged her or said any kind word to her? The kind words are
> reserved for our son.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 11:18:20 AM, tmthomas@... writes:
<< Now that our dd is 15, our respective mil's are realizing that this IS the
right way - tho they could not do it themselves now and could NOT buy the
concept when she was 5. My mom is so uptight and Maureen's mom is too rash/used
to hitting.
parenting, recently, by letter. The kids are 16, 14 and 11. That's how long I had to
wait, and endure the negative comments and the snorts. Even the compliments
are insults. Holly could quote this better, but at Thanksgiving Holly ate all
kinds of food, and her grandmother said something like "You ate well, Holly,
much better than we expected."
"Eating well." Sheesh.
And in a house where people are constantly criticised for eating at the wrong
time, or for eating too much.
Sandra
<< Now that our dd is 15, our respective mil's are realizing that this IS the
right way - tho they could not do it themselves now and could NOT buy the
concept when she was 5. My mom is so uptight and Maureen's mom is too rash/used
to hitting.
>>Keith's mom finally said something nice about our homeschooling and
parenting, recently, by letter. The kids are 16, 14 and 11. That's how long I had to
wait, and endure the negative comments and the snorts. Even the compliments
are insults. Holly could quote this better, but at Thanksgiving Holly ate all
kinds of food, and her grandmother said something like "You ate well, Holly,
much better than we expected."
"Eating well." Sheesh.
And in a house where people are constantly criticised for eating at the wrong
time, or for eating too much.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> > Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and toit's
> get off.
>
> **If anyone needs professional help to learn how to 'behave properly',
> your mother in law. Have you tried telling her privately that she needsto
> stop interfering in your mothering?And how is your daughter going to learn manners from a grandma that doesn't
have any?
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/2003 1:33:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<<<<<Keith's mom finally said something nice about our homeschooling and
parenting, recently, by letter. The kids are 16, 14 and 11. That's how long
I had to
wait, and endure the negative comments and the snorts. Even the compliments
are insults>>>
My mom invited Dustin for the weekend two weeks ago.
When she saw me on Sunday she said "Laura Dustin was wonderful, He has really
come a long way, he is so polite" He is 11 she has had him 3 times in 11
years. She in the past caused arguments over comments he made and more recently
2yrs ago told me he should go back to school and I should get a job!
Or coarse my younger sister now 20 has herd my Mom speak bad things of Dustin
over the years and hates him. We are currently in a family rift because she
says he is a chronic liar because he told me something she said that upset him.
(She asked my Mom the weekend she had him why she took him for the weekend
cuz she hardly knows him! She was very angry that Mom had him.) Hmmm
Laura, the very sensitive black sheep (lack of better words) of the family
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<<<<<Keith's mom finally said something nice about our homeschooling and
parenting, recently, by letter. The kids are 16, 14 and 11. That's how long
I had to
wait, and endure the negative comments and the snorts. Even the compliments
are insults>>>
My mom invited Dustin for the weekend two weeks ago.
When she saw me on Sunday she said "Laura Dustin was wonderful, He has really
come a long way, he is so polite" He is 11 she has had him 3 times in 11
years. She in the past caused arguments over comments he made and more recently
2yrs ago told me he should go back to school and I should get a job!
Or coarse my younger sister now 20 has herd my Mom speak bad things of Dustin
over the years and hates him. We are currently in a family rift because she
says he is a chronic liar because he told me something she said that upset him.
(She asked my Mom the weekend she had him why she took him for the weekend
cuz she hardly knows him! She was very angry that Mom had him.) Hmmm
Laura, the very sensitive black sheep (lack of better words) of the family
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/2003 12:00:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
windystreet@... writes:
by clinging only to you, her mother all the time. It would make it difficult
to develop a relationship with a child that only wants to be with her mother.
My son was like this. He NEVER wanted to be with anyone but me. His dad did
feel left out. With the other babies he could at least bathe and dress them
and play with them and do things but not this one. He wanted only ME. Made
it difficult for anyone to make a bond or have any type of relationship with
the child.
I really couldn't blame it on the adults and there was no blame for my son
either. It was just how he was. It was frustrating to others that wanted him
to play/do things with them and get to know him on a different level other than
the clingy child that only wanted his mother.
I think at five I would point out that it is rude not to answer Grandma when
she is speaking to you, if it's just because she feels she doesn't want to.
It goes back to manners/rank/respect and while I don't want to revisit that
thread, I would at least ask my child at five to acknowledge that Grandmother is
speaking to them. If they don't want to engage in conversation well they can
say I don't feel like talking right now. But at least don't ignore someone
who is making an effort to speak to you.
Maybe they are just trying to coax your daughter to come join them and give
you a break by saying she's too big for your lap. I'd say it's the wrong way
to go about it, but they probably have good intentions by wanting her to engage
with them. Otherwise they'd just ignore her.
I don't know about having her evaluated but I'd try to encourage her to get
to know her family and others.
My son was hospitalized for a fairly serious illness. I never once left him
day and night, I changed in his room, I ate in his room. When he was mostly
better and we were hoping he'd go home soon, the doctor asked to meet with me
and it seemed serious. I said before I send him home, you have to do a few
things. One was to go have lunch AWAY from the hospital and be gone at least an
hour. Another was to allow others to have a part of his life, help my son to
see that others are valuable and trustworthy and he can rely on them. He said
if something should ever happen to me, how desperate would my child be? That
made me think. At first I was very angry that he would tell me I had to do
these things before my child could come home. Then I thought about what he
said.
What IF something God forbid happened to me. How lost would my son be? I
worked hard on getting him to be comfortable with others. I realized that I had
never really encouraged it, just thinking it was his personality and he would
be fine and one day would be like the other children.
Anyway, there are lots of in betweens and you have to trust your instincts
for sure, but I wanted you to know that other children are like that and are
fine. My son is now almost 19, he's still a "momma's" boy and depends on me a
lot more than the other children but is perfectly capable of being on his own as
well.
He was just in Myrtle Beach for eight days without any adult and did just
fine. He still prefers to have me make his lunch and sometimes fold his laundry,
but he's more than capable of taking excellent care of himself and has lots
of friends.
So I'm sure your daughter will do just fine.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
windystreet@... writes:
> My mother-in-law says that Storey is spoiled and rude because StoreyMaybe MIL thinks Storey made it clear she didn't like her or anyone else much
> doesn't like to be around her (whereas our son is perfect and easy - she
> actually says that in front of the kids). I say that mil has made it
> very clear to Storey that she doesn't like her. Storey responds to mil
> by not wanting to be near her, not answering her when spoken to.
>
by clinging only to you, her mother all the time. It would make it difficult
to develop a relationship with a child that only wants to be with her mother.
My son was like this. He NEVER wanted to be with anyone but me. His dad did
feel left out. With the other babies he could at least bathe and dress them
and play with them and do things but not this one. He wanted only ME. Made
it difficult for anyone to make a bond or have any type of relationship with
the child.
I really couldn't blame it on the adults and there was no blame for my son
either. It was just how he was. It was frustrating to others that wanted him
to play/do things with them and get to know him on a different level other than
the clingy child that only wanted his mother.
I think at five I would point out that it is rude not to answer Grandma when
she is speaking to you, if it's just because she feels she doesn't want to.
It goes back to manners/rank/respect and while I don't want to revisit that
thread, I would at least ask my child at five to acknowledge that Grandmother is
speaking to them. If they don't want to engage in conversation well they can
say I don't feel like talking right now. But at least don't ignore someone
who is making an effort to speak to you.
Maybe they are just trying to coax your daughter to come join them and give
you a break by saying she's too big for your lap. I'd say it's the wrong way
to go about it, but they probably have good intentions by wanting her to engage
with them. Otherwise they'd just ignore her.
I don't know about having her evaluated but I'd try to encourage her to get
to know her family and others.
My son was hospitalized for a fairly serious illness. I never once left him
day and night, I changed in his room, I ate in his room. When he was mostly
better and we were hoping he'd go home soon, the doctor asked to meet with me
and it seemed serious. I said before I send him home, you have to do a few
things. One was to go have lunch AWAY from the hospital and be gone at least an
hour. Another was to allow others to have a part of his life, help my son to
see that others are valuable and trustworthy and he can rely on them. He said
if something should ever happen to me, how desperate would my child be? That
made me think. At first I was very angry that he would tell me I had to do
these things before my child could come home. Then I thought about what he
said.
What IF something God forbid happened to me. How lost would my son be? I
worked hard on getting him to be comfortable with others. I realized that I had
never really encouraged it, just thinking it was his personality and he would
be fine and one day would be like the other children.
Anyway, there are lots of in betweens and you have to trust your instincts
for sure, but I wanted you to know that other children are like that and are
fine. My son is now almost 19, he's still a "momma's" boy and depends on me a
lot more than the other children but is perfectly capable of being on his own as
well.
He was just in Myrtle Beach for eight days without any adult and did just
fine. He still prefers to have me make his lunch and sometimes fold his laundry,
but he's more than capable of taking excellent care of himself and has lots
of friends.
So I'm sure your daughter will do just fine.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole
Dear Kate,
Let me ask you a few questions.
If your daughter were to be evaluated <shudder!> by a professional psychologist/counselor, would you change your behavior, say, if she said your daughter were ADHD or some other childhood disordered. Would you put her on Ritalin or some other drug? Would you put her in Time Out? Would you treat her differently? Would you give her less love than she desires? Would you have in your mind that your child is somehow defective or disordered?
I'm so sorry that your husband and MIL are not giving you the support and your child the support that you both need. I bet the entire situation would be so much better if they were both treating her with respect and loving kindness instead of demanding that she behave differently.
All these people, even your mother, are seeing your lovely daughter through a different filter, one that is normally used by public schools, and society at large. They want her to be NORMAL, so it's easier for them.
I have a degree in counseling, but I am by no means a professional counselor. I recommend against professional evaluation of your lovely 5 1/2 year old daughter. Labels stick. I encourage you to continue to love and support your daughter the way you have been doing. Continue to show her your unconditional love. It sounds like you are the only source of it in her life.
This situation must cause you profound sadness, that your husband wants to punish your daughter for wanting you to love her up. I was in a situation like this one briefly and it made me sick. Yep, I'm married now for the third time, but I'd rather be married 3 times than be with someone who has totally different ideas about love and family than I do. My daughter's safety and security is A#1 in my book and everyone in my life knows that.
I'll keep you in my thoughts, Kate.
Nichole
Let me ask you a few questions.
If your daughter were to be evaluated <shudder!> by a professional psychologist/counselor, would you change your behavior, say, if she said your daughter were ADHD or some other childhood disordered. Would you put her on Ritalin or some other drug? Would you put her in Time Out? Would you treat her differently? Would you give her less love than she desires? Would you have in your mind that your child is somehow defective or disordered?
I'm so sorry that your husband and MIL are not giving you the support and your child the support that you both need. I bet the entire situation would be so much better if they were both treating her with respect and loving kindness instead of demanding that she behave differently.
All these people, even your mother, are seeing your lovely daughter through a different filter, one that is normally used by public schools, and society at large. They want her to be NORMAL, so it's easier for them.
I have a degree in counseling, but I am by no means a professional counselor. I recommend against professional evaluation of your lovely 5 1/2 year old daughter. Labels stick. I encourage you to continue to love and support your daughter the way you have been doing. Continue to show her your unconditional love. It sounds like you are the only source of it in her life.
This situation must cause you profound sadness, that your husband wants to punish your daughter for wanting you to love her up. I was in a situation like this one briefly and it made me sick. Yep, I'm married now for the third time, but I'd rather be married 3 times than be with someone who has totally different ideas about love and family than I do. My daughter's safety and security is A#1 in my book and everyone in my life knows that.
I'll keep you in my thoughts, Kate.
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff & Kate Kerr
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:57 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] my lovely daughter
We are having a problem I don't know how to deal with. My youngest,
Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful. I don't mean that in a disrespectful
way, I mean she is curious about everything, into everything, and wants
what she wants right now. She is bright and funny and a good mother to
her guinea pig. She considers herself an artist (I consider her one
also, she's got a talent for it) and seems to have the temperament of a
true artist (dedicated, true to her vision, etc...).
We have never spanked, but we used to give time outs (they don't work by
the way. Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.
Here's why: Storey has only ever wanted me to comfort her. When she
was a baby only I was allowed to hold her. She would scream if anyone
else did. She would wake up if she was set down to sleep (even though
she was sleeping right next to me, I needed to have my arms around
her). She nursed and would never take a bottle of breast milk (my
husband still has a hard time with this - our oldest allowed him to
bottle feed occasionally). I spent many years being "touched out"
because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.
My mother-in-law says that Storey is spoiled and rude because Storey
doesn't like to be around her (whereas our son is perfect and easy - she
actually says that in front of the kids). I say that mil has made it
very clear to Storey that she doesn't like her. Storey responds to mil
by not wanting to be near her, not answering her when spoken to.
We spent the afternoon at my in-laws this Sunday and Storey sat on my
lap. Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and to
get off. I kept repeating that she was fine and to let her be. Finally
I'd had enough and asked Storey to sit next to me, but that meant that
she would be sitting next to her grandmother and Storey did not want to
do that.
Storey had a melt down and was crying saying she didn't want to be
there, didn't want to come in the first place and could we please go
home. Instead of punishing her for what mil thinks was manipulative
behavior, I held her and talked calmly with her explaining that daddy
and Robin were having a good time, we had just gotten there and were
there to have lunch with the grandparents and that we would be leaving
soon, but not right now. (By the time we were ready to go Storey and
Robin were making pots - my in-laws are potters - and neither of them
wanted to go.)
Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband in
private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to behave
properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks this
also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's raised
7 kids and knows what she is talking about (btw, of those 7, all except
my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been in and
out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and punished
harshly and often.).
So now my husband is saying that maybe we should have her professionally
evaluated, maybe there really is something wrong with her. We ended up
in a long heated discussion over this. I disagree with him. Yes Storey
is needy, but she's 5, not 30. Yes Storey is a handful, but it's ok
because she is my daughter and I want to help her and be with her.
So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea of
professional evaluations? Do they do any good? I say we should just
raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so we
seem to be doing something right. But maybe my husband has a point?
I'm really confused. (Maybe I'm just looking for people to agree with
me? To help me back up what I think is the right way?)
My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this.
Sorry for the length, thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
Kate
who is a little confused right now
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
"My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I was thinking
of asking the counselor about this."
Yeah, I might mention the fact that your mil seems to have some enormous influence over your dh, to the detriment of your relationship!
I don't think I'd want any "professional" advice about the dd, you already feel comfortable meeting her needs. The problem is the dynamics between you and dh...he should be backing you up with mil, especially in light of her own miserable parenting choices.
Some children are very needy, it will change.
My 2.5 y.o. is pretty much only happy with me. If I am at work, then Dad is just fine, but when I'm here, I am the only one he wants.
He sleeps right next to me, he nurses frequently and I don't see how changing any of that is going to make him a better person in any way.
Sierra is six, and still doesn't take to people readily. She doesn't like talking to anyone that isn't very familiar, but she talks my ear off! :) Everyone has their own time table, your dd is just fine!!
I would however, try to strengthen the family dynamics so everyone can tell the mil to butt out when she gets rude again.
Ren
of asking the counselor about this."
Yeah, I might mention the fact that your mil seems to have some enormous influence over your dh, to the detriment of your relationship!
I don't think I'd want any "professional" advice about the dd, you already feel comfortable meeting her needs. The problem is the dynamics between you and dh...he should be backing you up with mil, especially in light of her own miserable parenting choices.
Some children are very needy, it will change.
My 2.5 y.o. is pretty much only happy with me. If I am at work, then Dad is just fine, but when I'm here, I am the only one he wants.
He sleeps right next to me, he nurses frequently and I don't see how changing any of that is going to make him a better person in any way.
Sierra is six, and still doesn't take to people readily. She doesn't like talking to anyone that isn't very familiar, but she talks my ear off! :) Everyone has their own time table, your dd is just fine!!
I would however, try to strengthen the family dynamics so everyone can tell the mil to butt out when she gets rude again.
Ren
nellebelle
>>>>>We have never spanked, but we used to give time outs (they don't work bythe way. Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.>>>>>>
If their behavior is more pleasant, why does he think you need to go back to punishing? (You don't have to answer here, just something to think about or ask him why.)
As for your dd wanting to sit with you rather than Grandma, I happened to glance at Dear Abby this am. Someone wrote in about child sexual abuse, and Abby wrote back that children need to be taught to say no to things that make them uncomfortable. I thought what irony it is that our society usually teaches children to do whatever it takes to please adults, especially relatives (who are in the category of those most likely to sexually abuse children!). I'm not suggesting that your mil has any of those intents, just that if we expect children to say no when they are uncomfortable, we need to allow the children to be the judge of when they are uncomfortable!
Sometimes I might try to soften a situation like that by making a joke about it or reminding others that children grow so quickly and before you know it she won't want to sit on your lap and doesn't she (your mil) miss those days when her little children wanted to cuddle with her?
It really helped my mom to understand some of my parenting decisions when I compared a parent making a child eat their vegetables (the child may eat the vegetables to please the parent, but learns that we do things we don't want to do in order to make those we love happy) to a teenage friend urging a child to try drugs (the child may try the drugs to please the friend because they have learned that is more important to please others than to trust their own wants/needs.)
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: "Jeff & Kate Kerr" <windystreet@...>
I'm not really answering what you asked but commenting on the post. If
that's not what you want, just toss this. I won't be offended. <BG>
<<Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.>>
My first thought was why??? Does you husband not see the difference? Maybe
pointing out specifics would help. To him only. Like remember when Storey
would...... and now she doesn't do that? Maybe he's just not seeing it.
<<I spent many years being "touched out"
because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.>>
I spent years feeling like I was doing something totally different than
anyone else in this house! <BG> Seemed like no one could comb hair, tie
shoes, put on socks, you name it, like I could. Joe would try and the kids
would freak and it was just easier and way more peaceful for me to just do
it. Joseph and Sierra are now 8 and 7 and Daddy is very good at all those
jobs he could never do before. <BG> They got out of it. Alyssa doesn't do
that with her dad but once in awhile. Joseph and Sierra were notorious for
"I want Mommy to do it." For them it passed. If I would have forced "no
daddy will", I do believe it would have been worse. You're doing fine.
<<We spent the afternoon at my in-laws this Sunday and Storey sat on my
lap. Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and to
get off. I kept repeating that she was fine and to let her be. Finally
I'd had enough and asked Storey to sit next to me, but that meant that
she would be sitting next to her grandmother and Storey did not want to
do that.>>
I'm just wondering what you had enough of? Was it Storey on your lap or you
MIL? If it was MIL, why make Storey get off? If it were me, I would have
gotten up and moved me and my kid away from MIL. Knowing me, I may have just
packed up the whole family and left. I've done that before. My kids need to
know, that no matter who in the family is being a pita, I will protect my
kids. My mom has a tendency to pester Joseph and not the girls. I've had
words with her about it. It wasn't nice. But things are better because she
knows I won't stand for it. He's better because he knows I won't stand for
it. My in laws would say awful things in front of my kids. It was their
house, but my kids. I won't tell them what to do, but I won't stay there if
my kids aren't safe.
I see the issue, from what you wrote as your MIL. I don't suppose you can
force a professional on her can you?? I'm pretty up front when it comes to
my kids. I avoid conflict a lot, but not when it has to do with them. I
would let my MIL know (and I have) that they are not her kids and I will not
stand by while she hurts them in anyway. So you either keep your mouth
closed and see them or don't see them. But that's just me.
I don't see where you daughter needs professional help. It may help to bring
it out in your own counseling. Depends on the therapist. It may not help and
they may suggest school or some such silly thing. You can probably figure
out where they may stand.
Again I see the only one that needs handling is MIL. You seem to be doing
fine with your daughter. Good luck with the family.
Mary B
I'm not really answering what you asked but commenting on the post. If
that's not what you want, just toss this. I won't be offended. <BG>
<<Since we've stopped doing that both of my kids behavior is
more pleasant and they don't misbehave as they used to). My husband
thinks we need to go back to the punishing.>>
My first thought was why??? Does you husband not see the difference? Maybe
pointing out specifics would help. To him only. Like remember when Storey
would...... and now she doesn't do that? Maybe he's just not seeing it.
<<I spent many years being "touched out"
because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.>>
I spent years feeling like I was doing something totally different than
anyone else in this house! <BG> Seemed like no one could comb hair, tie
shoes, put on socks, you name it, like I could. Joe would try and the kids
would freak and it was just easier and way more peaceful for me to just do
it. Joseph and Sierra are now 8 and 7 and Daddy is very good at all those
jobs he could never do before. <BG> They got out of it. Alyssa doesn't do
that with her dad but once in awhile. Joseph and Sierra were notorious for
"I want Mommy to do it." For them it passed. If I would have forced "no
daddy will", I do believe it would have been worse. You're doing fine.
<<We spent the afternoon at my in-laws this Sunday and Storey sat on my
lap. Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and to
get off. I kept repeating that she was fine and to let her be. Finally
I'd had enough and asked Storey to sit next to me, but that meant that
she would be sitting next to her grandmother and Storey did not want to
do that.>>
I'm just wondering what you had enough of? Was it Storey on your lap or you
MIL? If it was MIL, why make Storey get off? If it were me, I would have
gotten up and moved me and my kid away from MIL. Knowing me, I may have just
packed up the whole family and left. I've done that before. My kids need to
know, that no matter who in the family is being a pita, I will protect my
kids. My mom has a tendency to pester Joseph and not the girls. I've had
words with her about it. It wasn't nice. But things are better because she
knows I won't stand for it. He's better because he knows I won't stand for
it. My in laws would say awful things in front of my kids. It was their
house, but my kids. I won't tell them what to do, but I won't stay there if
my kids aren't safe.
I see the issue, from what you wrote as your MIL. I don't suppose you can
force a professional on her can you?? I'm pretty up front when it comes to
my kids. I avoid conflict a lot, but not when it has to do with them. I
would let my MIL know (and I have) that they are not her kids and I will not
stand by while she hurts them in anyway. So you either keep your mouth
closed and see them or don't see them. But that's just me.
I don't see where you daughter needs professional help. It may help to bring
it out in your own counseling. Depends on the therapist. It may not help and
they may suggest school or some such silly thing. You can probably figure
out where they may stand.
Again I see the only one that needs handling is MIL. You seem to be doing
fine with your daughter. Good luck with the family.
Mary B
Mary
From: <starsuncloud@...>
<<Sierra is six, and still doesn't take to people readily. She doesn't like
talking to anyone that isn't very familiar, but she talks my ear off! :)
Everyone has their own time table, your dd is just fine!!>>
Okay except for saying Sierra is 7, I could have written that word for word.
Must be the name!
Mary B
<<Sierra is six, and still doesn't take to people readily. She doesn't like
talking to anyone that isn't very familiar, but she talks my ear off! :)
Everyone has their own time table, your dd is just fine!!>>
Okay except for saying Sierra is 7, I could have written that word for word.
Must be the name!
Mary B
Tia Leschke
> I spent years feeling like I was doing something totally different thanMy 2 1/2 year old grandson, after a period of, "I want Mummy do it," went
> anyone else in this house! <BG> Seemed like no one could comb hair, tie
> shoes, put on socks, you name it, like I could. Joe would try and the kids
> would freak and it was just easier and way more peaceful for me to just do
> it. Joseph and Sierra are now 8 and 7 and Daddy is very good at all those
> jobs he could never do before. <BG> They got out of it. Alyssa doesn't do
> that with her dad but once in awhile. Joseph and Sierra were notorious for
> "I want Mommy to do it." For them it passed. If I would have forced "no
> daddy will", I do believe it would have been worse. You're doing fine.
through a similar period of, "I want Daddy do it." Now he's happy with
either.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Mary
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
<<Sometimes I might try to soften a situation like that by making a joke
about it or reminding others that children grow so quickly and before you
know it she won't want to sit on your lap and doesn't she (your mil) miss
those days when her little children wanted to cuddle with her?>>
I just had to write this. I just put my last post on hold because Tara came
out and pulled my chair away from the desk to sit on my lap and cuddle with
me. She sat here with me for about 25 minutes and then she was gone. She's
17.
Mary B
<<Sometimes I might try to soften a situation like that by making a joke
about it or reminding others that children grow so quickly and before you
know it she won't want to sit on your lap and doesn't she (your mil) miss
those days when her little children wanted to cuddle with her?>>
I just had to write this. I just put my last post on hold because Tara came
out and pulled my chair away from the desk to sit on my lap and cuddle with
me. She sat here with me for about 25 minutes and then she was gone. She's
17.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 1:20:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
not like to go as there is nothing to play with, nothing to do, and she is not
kid friendly. She doesn't say anything terrible but has no idea how to talk to
children. But I see her only every couple of years. So Jackson will usually
take him and/or Dallen for a walk in the field or to look at all the
fascinating things outside. Gets them out of a place where they don't want to be. I
know I hate it when I have to sit somewhere and I really don't want to be
there. I do the same when we visit Jackson's dad. The boys really hate that
visit.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> When there's tension at their house, I take a kid for a walkI do the same thing. When we visit my grandmother my youngest (6 yo) does
not like to go as there is nothing to play with, nothing to do, and she is not
kid friendly. She doesn't say anything terrible but has no idea how to talk to
children. But I see her only every couple of years. So Jackson will usually
take him and/or Dallen for a walk in the field or to look at all the
fascinating things outside. Gets them out of a place where they don't want to be. I
know I hate it when I have to sit somewhere and I really don't want to be
there. I do the same when we visit Jackson's dad. The boys really hate that
visit.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 4:17:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
going on in that original post. The husbands relationship with his mother, your
relationship with the MIL. But in just focusing on your daughter, I know I
have never pushed my boys into doing something they were not comfortable with.
Giving great grandma a hug. Saying Hi to anyone. Shaking hands with anyone.
Answering anyone who had a question. If they were not comfortable I did not
push and now my oldest is such a good judge of people. He is not introverted
and clingy, like some people told me he would be. People always said he was
old enough for this or that but I listened to him. He let me know when he was
ready to venture away from me. I want my boys to know what that gut instinct
is and what it feels like and that it is OK to follow that instinct.
Anyway too long.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle@... writes:
> . I thought what irony it is that our society usually teaches children toI was thinking the exact same thing. It seems like there are many things
> do whatever it takes to please adults, especially relatives (who are in the
> category of those most likely to sexually abuse children!). I'm not
> suggesting that your mil has any of those intents, just that if we expect children to
> say no when they are uncomfortable, we need to allow the children to be the
> judge of when they are uncomfortable!
>
>
going on in that original post. The husbands relationship with his mother, your
relationship with the MIL. But in just focusing on your daughter, I know I
have never pushed my boys into doing something they were not comfortable with.
Giving great grandma a hug. Saying Hi to anyone. Shaking hands with anyone.
Answering anyone who had a question. If they were not comfortable I did not
push and now my oldest is such a good judge of people. He is not introverted
and clingy, like some people told me he would be. People always said he was
old enough for this or that but I listened to him. He let me know when he was
ready to venture away from me. I want my boys to know what that gut instinct
is and what it feels like and that it is OK to follow that instinct.
Anyway too long.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> As far as Storey's behaviour, it's only gotten better over time. SheYour daughter sounds very similar in temperment to my oldest daughter, Zoë.
> is much less difficult to be with now, compared with even a year ago.
She is now 6.75 years old and she is getting more and more less challenging
to deal with. Zoë, like Storey, has been this way SINCE BIRTH. If she had
been an "easy" baby, we never would have learned the joys of the family bed,
or extended breastfeeding, or unschooling. She and her personality are what
opened up my world to the possibility of homeschooling. She has taught me
more than anyone else has. Whenever she has a bad day, I look back to how
it was a year ago. Now there are at least a day here and there that she
doesn't have some sort of a breakdown.
I hesitate to post this publically. I actually posted a question similar to
yours about a year ago to this list. Dealing with a child that seems
illogical and irrational at times is very challenging. She is literal
minded and a true genius (IMO, we've never had her tested and we won't
ever), with the personality that goes with it. She questions everything and
everything has to be "just right always" and "perfect according to her
standards" or she'll throw a major fit that affects everyone within hearing
distance. I'm sounding like I hate her, which I don't. Yesterday was a
particularly difficult day for her and I wasn't feeling very sympathetic
(she was in the wrong every single time- seriously). However, these days
with multiple meltdowns only happen a couple of times a month now, versus
EVERY SINGLE day for her entire life under age of 4-4.5 or so, so it does
get better and I can see that. She still complains about things that
happened to her when she was 2 (she has a great memory). For example, one
day when she was 2, I picked out a blue dress for her to wear (we were in a
hurry). Well, she wanted the green dress. So, I immediately put the blue
dress away and got the green dress, only to have her say, "You didn't fix
the problem, I wanted the green dress first and you have forever ruined it
because you got the blue dress first and it will always be that you got the
blue dress first." (She was very verbal from a very early age.) That was
when she became in charge of forever more picking out her own clothing.
I'm convinced that if we had sent Zoë to school that she would either be on
drugs for ADD (or something) or she would be punished every single day. I
am also convinced that she wouldn't have the sparkle and excitement for life
and learning new things that she has if she had been forced to attend
school. I can say without hesitation that she is the smartest and most
alive 6.75 girl that I have ever met, and I've met a lot of girls her age.
I can say this for every stage of her life thus far. DH and I have gotten
really good at heading off some of her breakdowns, but people like my mother
have a way of making them worse and making them last for days and days and
days. We didn't speak to DH's parents for several years because they
thought that we were/are parenting so horribly (they ignore it now and we
only see them about once a year or so). I'll never forget the day that they
screamed, "SHE'S NOT NORMAL!" when Zoë refused to immediately go to them
after she hadn't seen them for 3 or 4 months (they thought that they could
"fix" her if and they demanded to take her away from us for a week- we
refused). Be forewarned that if you confront anyone on their issues with
your daughter, they might possibly not be in your life ever again (or for at
least a really long time- not that this is a bad thing necessarily).
Zoë just had her first play date away from home without DH or I there also,
last week. She is 6.75 years old. I realized that this is a much older age
than most kids, but we waited until she was ready. We've spent a lot of
time with this family and they've seen Zoe during some of her lesser
breakdowns. They have a new baby, and were only comfortable hosting with
both of the parents home. Anyway, after discussing it a lot by all parties,
we (Zoe included) decided on a 3 hour time limit. It went fantastic. So
well, in fact, that everyone wants to do it again. It was hard for DH and
I. We were a good 10-15 minutes away from her and we were nervous the
entire time that she would have a breakdown and no one would be able to
handle it and she would get so out of control that they'd never want
anything to do with her again. I think that she sensed this and was more
aware of herself and her emotions than she usually is with us. We are
actually planning a sleep over now, but since she isn't quite ready for
this, our whole family is going to sleep over at their house. Everyone's
needs will be met this way.
Long story, I know, but I wanted to let you know that I commiserate and I am
convinced that Unschooling-type parenting is the ONLY solution for
"spirited" or "high needs" children. Really, these children NEED us MORE.
We have the responsibility to give them that more. Good luck dealing with
your husband. If I was fighting my husband on this issue, I don't know if I
could handle it. I feel for you.
-Lisa in AZ
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/2003 4:18:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
'Mommy, Mommy, Mommy'. When will it ever be 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy'? Why does he
never want me?" I told him that I was going to take ALL the time Cameron would
give me. That, when Cameron got to be about 8 or so, he would start wanting
Ben's attention more (sports and such---"boy-stuff"). I figured I'd lose him by
the teen years for sure and that I might "get him back" in his twenties.
I was right. Cam's still a bit of a "Mama's boy" (in a nice way)---we're VERY
close, but he and Ben have a bond that they didn't have when he was
little---sports and music and "boy stuff".
I'm a "Daddy's girl". I'm guessing I wanted my mother when I was really
little, but for as long as I can remember, I've "belonged" to my dad.
Ben's not worried about Duncan because he's seen what has happened with
Cameron---he KNOWS he'll get plenty of "Dad time" with Dunc---and soon!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> I spent years feeling like I was doing something totally different thanBen used to get upset that Cameron only wanted ME. He said, "It's always,
> anyone else in this house! <BG> Seemed like no one could comb hair, tie
> shoes, put on socks, you name it, like I could. Joe would try and the kids
> would freak and it was just easier and way more peaceful for me to just do
> it. Joseph and Sierra are now 8 and 7 and Daddy is very good at all those
> jobs he could never do before. <BG> They got out of it. Alyssa doesn't do
> that with her dad but once in awhile. Joseph and Sierra were notorious for
> "I want Mommy to do it." For them it passed. If I would have forced "no
> daddy will", I do believe it would have been worse. You're doing fine.
>
'Mommy, Mommy, Mommy'. When will it ever be 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy'? Why does he
never want me?" I told him that I was going to take ALL the time Cameron would
give me. That, when Cameron got to be about 8 or so, he would start wanting
Ben's attention more (sports and such---"boy-stuff"). I figured I'd lose him by
the teen years for sure and that I might "get him back" in his twenties.
I was right. Cam's still a bit of a "Mama's boy" (in a nice way)---we're VERY
close, but he and Ben have a bond that they didn't have when he was
little---sports and music and "boy stuff".
I'm a "Daddy's girl". I'm guessing I wanted my mother when I was really
little, but for as long as I can remember, I've "belonged" to my dad.
Ben's not worried about Duncan because he's seen what has happened with
Cameron---he KNOWS he'll get plenty of "Dad time" with Dunc---and soon!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
I think your MIL should keep her mouth shut, that your daughter was having a
perfectly normal reaction to being treated like a second class citizen and
your husband needs to stop running to momma for advice on being a parent.
Oh, was I supposed to answer that politely? Sorry. But I'd have ripped MIL
a new one, long ago.
Kelly
perfectly normal reaction to being treated like a second class citizen and
your husband needs to stop running to momma for advice on being a parent.
Oh, was I supposed to answer that politely? Sorry. But I'd have ripped MIL
a new one, long ago.
Kelly
the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], Jeff & Kate Kerr
<windystreet@e...> wrote:
that with time, and with respectful parenting things have continued
to get easier for him and even the grandparents are coming around.
Now they are more likely to say that they agree with the way we're
doing things (amazing).
about my son when I took him to a mommy-and-me class. All the other
infants were in their baby carriers or in their mom's lap, but mine
would scream unless he was in the sling and I was walking. Every time
I stopped moving, he'd scream. He didn't just accept attachment
parenting, he *demanded* it (smart kid :-).
relatives is that by giving our kids the option to decide for
themselves their own comfort levels around others, we are really
giving them the future ability to follow their own intuition in more
dangerous circumstances. A child who isn't forced against their
intuition to give a grandparent a kiss might be much more likely in
the future to stand up for the rights of their own body when tempted
with sex, drugs, or something else they don't feel comfortable with.
Most likely, it's kids who have had the "respect for all adults"
drummed into them who are at the biggest risk of being abused as well.
there in that paragraph. What she believes in *doesn't work*. It just
doesn't. You can't raise kids to be respectful people by
disrespecting them. It sounds to me like she's threatened by the fact
that you're parenting differently and that probably deep in her
heart, she knows that "her way" didn't work out all that well in the
end. Some people are able to look the facts in the eye and realize
that there might be a better way. Some people just can't deal with
the cognitive dissonance and revert to lying to themselves and
pushing their own methods more than ever. People will continue to
believe that their methods "worked" even as they bail out their kids
from jail. I had a woman in a campground once expound on her theories
of parenting to me (which basically boiled down to "smack 'em around
if they don't behave") and then she told me that her daughter had run
away, was on drugs, and was pregnant. So why would she be giving me
advice? Who knows. People are strange that way. It gets harder, of
course, when we're related to them. We have to work harder to turn a
deaf ear :-)
what you want to get out of the evaluation, how good of an evaluator
you get, how supportive they are of homeschooling, what kinds of
support or recommendations they can give you, etc. We had our son
evaluated for SID (sensory integration dysfunction) and went through
OT (occupational therapy) with him, in addition to doing a lot of
stuff with him at home. I think the evaluation was helpful, it
definitely showed us areas that he was really struggling with, and
our therapist gave us a lot of things we could do to help him out in
those areas. For him, the SID was interfering with every aspect of
his life, and making things very difficult for him (and for us). So
it made a lot of sense to get help in figuring out how to help him
work through it and make things easier for him. Some of this was
stuff we were already doing, but some of it I wouldn't have known to
do without the therapist pointing it out. She was really great, and
very supportive of homeschooling. As more and more "special needs"
kids are homeschooling, I think a lot of the therapists out there
have become quite supportive of it.
If there are specific things that you/she are concerned about or want
to improve, then it might make sense to get an evaluation and therapy
(esp. if you can get a recommendation for a good therapist). If not,
then it probably doesn't make sense. I guess it depends on where on
the spectrum of "special" she falls. There's special that just means
a different way of being in the world, and then there's special that
interferes with the child's natural ability to grow. If she falls in
the former, then I doubt that an evaluation would help. If she falls
into the latter, then it might. For our son, many of his behaviors
were things that we could specifically address with sensory therapy.
It helped him a lot just to be able to be out and in the world (where
lights are bright, music is playing on the stereo in stores, people
are jostling in lines, etc.) without the meltdowns.
see why not.
Child". It opened my eyes to the ways in which my son's brain/body
were developing, and the things that were going on that were
hindering him. It had a lot of checklists that gave me an idea of
which areas were just slightly different, and which areas he had
severe issues in. It also made me realize that just the attachment
parenting and being with him were not going to be enough. I had to
learn new ways of helping him, but nothing that I learned went
against my basic child-respecting philosophy (and our occupational
therapist did not either).
counselor about whether or not an evaluation is a good idea). Most
marriage counselors aren't all that knowledgeable about this kind of
thing. I guess it would depend heavily on how much you trust this
counselor's general judgement. I'm guessing it would definitely be
worthwhile to discuss how you want to approach dealing with inlaws,
especially in the areas where their parenting suggestions run counter
to your own.
journey will be different. I've found that following our own hearts
about what was right for our son lead us in the right direction.
There was a time when we just took it day by day and parented by
instinct, there was a time when we used therapy for him and
professionals who understand SID to help us out, and since then there
have been 2 years with no therapy but with some extra attention paid
in our own minds to his needs and to helping him get through things
that are easier for most kids but difficult for him. Remember that
whatever decision you make today doesn't have to be binding forever.
You can always re-evaluate in a day, a month, a year if circumstances
change. One phrase that often works with well-meaning relatives who
give advice is "Thanks, I'll think about that" (even if that means
I'll think to myself how stupid it was :-)
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
<windystreet@e...> wrote:
> We are having a problem I don't know how to deal with. My youngest,wants
> Storey is 5 1/2, is a handful. I don't mean that in a disrespectful
> way, I mean she is curious about everything, into everything, and
> what she wants right now.Wow, that sounds a lot like my oldest, now almost 7. The good news is
that with time, and with respectful parenting things have continued
to get easier for him and even the grandparents are coming around.
Now they are more likely to say that they agree with the way we're
doing things (amazing).
> Here's why: Storey has only ever wanted me to comfort her. Whenshe
> was a baby only I was allowed to hold her. She would scream ifanyone
> else did. She would wake up if she was set down to sleep (eventhough
> she was sleeping right next to me, I needed to have my arms aroundYep, yep, yep. Nodding my head here. I knew something was "different"
> her). She nursed and would never take a bottle of breast milk (my
> husband still has a hard time with this - our oldest allowed him to
> bottle feed occasionally). I spent many years being "touched out"
> because of the amount of time that Storey needed from me.
about my son when I took him to a mommy-and-me class. All the other
infants were in their baby carriers or in their mom's lap, but mine
would scream unless he was in the sling and I was walking. Every time
I stopped moving, he'd scream. He didn't just accept attachment
parenting, he *demanded* it (smart kid :-).
> My mother-in-law says that Storey is spoiled and rude because Storeyshe
> doesn't like to be around her (whereas our son is perfect and easy -
> actually says that in front of the kids). I say that mil has madeit
> very clear to Storey that she doesn't like her. Storey responds tomil
> by not wanting to be near her, not answering her when spoken to.LOL, nodding my head again. One thing I've pointed out to my
relatives is that by giving our kids the option to decide for
themselves their own comfort levels around others, we are really
giving them the future ability to follow their own intuition in more
dangerous circumstances. A child who isn't forced against their
intuition to give a grandparent a kiss might be much more likely in
the future to stand up for the rights of their own body when tempted
with sex, drugs, or something else they don't feel comfortable with.
Most likely, it's kids who have had the "respect for all adults"
drummed into them who are at the biggest risk of being abused as well.
> Mil was pissed and spent the next 1/2 hour talking to my husband inbehave
> private about how Storey needed professional help to learn how to
> properly and how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks thisraised
> also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's
> 7 kids and knows what she is talking about (btw, of those 7, allexcept
> my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have beenin and
> out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1punished
> doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
> husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and
> harshly and often.).That unfortunately sounds familiar too. But that's the answer, right
there in that paragraph. What she believes in *doesn't work*. It just
doesn't. You can't raise kids to be respectful people by
disrespecting them. It sounds to me like she's threatened by the fact
that you're parenting differently and that probably deep in her
heart, she knows that "her way" didn't work out all that well in the
end. Some people are able to look the facts in the eye and realize
that there might be a better way. Some people just can't deal with
the cognitive dissonance and revert to lying to themselves and
pushing their own methods more than ever. People will continue to
believe that their methods "worked" even as they bail out their kids
from jail. I had a woman in a campground once expound on her theories
of parenting to me (which basically boiled down to "smack 'em around
if they don't behave") and then she told me that her daughter had run
away, was on drugs, and was pregnant. So why would she be giving me
advice? Who knows. People are strange that way. It gets harder, of
course, when we're related to them. We have to work harder to turn a
deaf ear :-)
> So, to sum up a very long story, what do you think about the idea ofI'd say that the answer to that is not always clear. It depends on
> professional evaluations? Do they do any good?
what you want to get out of the evaluation, how good of an evaluator
you get, how supportive they are of homeschooling, what kinds of
support or recommendations they can give you, etc. We had our son
evaluated for SID (sensory integration dysfunction) and went through
OT (occupational therapy) with him, in addition to doing a lot of
stuff with him at home. I think the evaluation was helpful, it
definitely showed us areas that he was really struggling with, and
our therapist gave us a lot of things we could do to help him out in
those areas. For him, the SID was interfering with every aspect of
his life, and making things very difficult for him (and for us). So
it made a lot of sense to get help in figuring out how to help him
work through it and make things easier for him. Some of this was
stuff we were already doing, but some of it I wouldn't have known to
do without the therapist pointing it out. She was really great, and
very supportive of homeschooling. As more and more "special needs"
kids are homeschooling, I think a lot of the therapists out there
have become quite supportive of it.
If there are specific things that you/she are concerned about or want
to improve, then it might make sense to get an evaluation and therapy
(esp. if you can get a recommendation for a good therapist). If not,
then it probably doesn't make sense. I guess it depends on where on
the spectrum of "special" she falls. There's special that just means
a different way of being in the world, and then there's special that
interferes with the child's natural ability to grow. If she falls in
the former, then I doubt that an evaluation would help. If she falls
into the latter, then it might. For our son, many of his behaviors
were things that we could specifically address with sensory therapy.
It helped him a lot just to be able to be out and in the world (where
lights are bright, music is playing on the stereo in stores, people
are jostling in lines, etc.) without the meltdowns.
> I say we should justwe
> raise her the way we have been, she's gotten easier to be around so
> seem to be doing something right.If that's the case, and if there's no big hurdles in her way, I don't
see why not.
> But maybe my husband has a point?Maybe. One thing that helped me was a book called "The Out-Of-Sync
Child". It opened my eyes to the ways in which my son's brain/body
were developing, and the things that were going on that were
hindering him. It had a lot of checklists that gave me an idea of
which areas were just slightly different, and which areas he had
severe issues in. It also made me realize that just the attachment
parenting and being with him were not going to be enough. I had to
learn new ways of helping him, but nothing that I learned went
against my basic child-respecting philosophy (and our occupational
therapist did not either).
> My husband and I are in marriage counseling right now and I wasthinking
> of asking the counselor about this.I'm not sure if that's a good idea (thinking in terms of asking the
counselor about whether or not an evaluation is a good idea). Most
marriage counselors aren't all that knowledgeable about this kind of
thing. I guess it would depend heavily on how much you trust this
counselor's general judgement. I'm guessing it would definitely be
worthwhile to discuss how you want to approach dealing with inlaws,
especially in the areas where their parenting suggestions run counter
to your own.
> KateI sympathize! There's no easy answer sometimes, and every person's
> who is a little confused right now
journey will be different. I've found that following our own hearts
about what was right for our son lead us in the right direction.
There was a time when we just took it day by day and parented by
instinct, there was a time when we used therapy for him and
professionals who understand SID to help us out, and since then there
have been 2 years with no therapy but with some extra attention paid
in our own minds to his needs and to helping him get through things
that are easier for most kids but difficult for him. Remember that
whatever decision you make today doesn't have to be binding forever.
You can always re-evaluate in a day, a month, a year if circumstances
change. One phrase that often works with well-meaning relatives who
give advice is "Thanks, I'll think about that" (even if that means
I'll think to myself how stupid it was :-)
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/2003 11:57:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
diamondair@... writes:
be flushed down the toilet. I learned long ago to seek out people who
successfully raised kind, caring (not necessarily rich or successful) children into
kind, caring adults. Those type of people are worth their weight in gold...I
think I'd avoid your MIL as much as possible. If she asks why she doesn't get
to see you or the kids anymore, tell her your feelings truthfully.
I remember when I was still quite a religious person, I heard someone
elaborate on women as "keepers of the home." But instead of the same old
"submissive" example this person described the keeper more as a gatekeeper or warrior :o)
....keeping things and people out of the family that will harm the well-being
of the children and family, even if that meant disagreeing with your husband.
I liked that picture. :o)
I had a child (1st) who clung to me like flypaper. I was a new Mom (19) and
so unsure of myself, but everything in me told me to cling right back to her.
I can only remember once or twice that she wasn't with me in her first 2
years of life, and that was because hubby wanted me to get away for an hour or two
to see how she'd do....she cried terribly, and he was always glad when I came
back up the driveway. When I got pregnant with #2, she always accompanied me
to my OB visits and would stand next to the doctor while he examined me. He
said once, "I think your daughter wants to become an Obstetrician when she
grows up" as she stood looking at everything he was doing while my legs were up
in stirrups...LOL...
She'll be fine. Other than mentioning it to the counselor you're already
seeing, I'd stay away from taking her for an "evaluation"...I doubt you'll agree
with their advice anyhow.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diamondair@... writes:
> how we were too lenient with her (my mother thinks thisTo me, this is all the proof you need to know that anything she says should
> >also) and needed to punish this sort of behavior, about how she's
> raised
> >7 kids and knows what she is talking about (btw, of those 7, all
> except
> >my husband have been divorced at least twice, 2 of them have been
> in and
> >out of jail, at least 2 of them are alcoholics/drug abusers, and 1
> >doesn't even speak to her. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but my
> >husband says they were never told they were loved or hugged and
> punished
> >harshly and often.).
>
be flushed down the toilet. I learned long ago to seek out people who
successfully raised kind, caring (not necessarily rich or successful) children into
kind, caring adults. Those type of people are worth their weight in gold...I
think I'd avoid your MIL as much as possible. If she asks why she doesn't get
to see you or the kids anymore, tell her your feelings truthfully.
I remember when I was still quite a religious person, I heard someone
elaborate on women as "keepers of the home." But instead of the same old
"submissive" example this person described the keeper more as a gatekeeper or warrior :o)
....keeping things and people out of the family that will harm the well-being
of the children and family, even if that meant disagreeing with your husband.
I liked that picture. :o)
I had a child (1st) who clung to me like flypaper. I was a new Mom (19) and
so unsure of myself, but everything in me told me to cling right back to her.
I can only remember once or twice that she wasn't with me in her first 2
years of life, and that was because hubby wanted me to get away for an hour or two
to see how she'd do....she cried terribly, and he was always glad when I came
back up the driveway. When I got pregnant with #2, she always accompanied me
to my OB visits and would stand next to the doctor while he examined me. He
said once, "I think your daughter wants to become an Obstetrician when she
grows up" as she stood looking at everything he was doing while my legs were up
in stirrups...LOL...
She'll be fine. Other than mentioning it to the counselor you're already
seeing, I'd stay away from taking her for an "evaluation"...I doubt you'll agree
with their advice anyhow.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
7/3/03 05:40:
It sucks.
brenda
happy today, though, because her husband called last night! :)
> Ben used to get upset that Cameron only wanted ME. He said, "It's always,Daddy, Daddy, Daddy happened here about 6 months before my husband deployed.
> 'Mommy, Mommy, Mommy'. When will it ever be 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy'?
It sucks.
brenda
happy today, though, because her husband called last night! :)
[email protected]
"Long story, I know, but I wanted to let you know that I commiserate and I am
convinced that Unschooling-type parenting is the ONLY solution for
"spirited" or "high needs" children. Really, these children
NEED us MORE."
I agree.
While I feel that pretty much all children have special genius about them, I do think your dd was very verbal at such a young age! It's always interesting to me since Jalen is still using single words and lots of tones to let us know what he wants...he's 2.5.
And I do think the unschooling lifestyle is the ONLY way to avoid squashing their little spirits.
Ren
convinced that Unschooling-type parenting is the ONLY solution for
"spirited" or "high needs" children. Really, these children
NEED us MORE."
I agree.
While I feel that pretty much all children have special genius about them, I do think your dd was very verbal at such a young age! It's always interesting to me since Jalen is still using single words and lots of tones to let us know what he wants...he's 2.5.
And I do think the unschooling lifestyle is the ONLY way to avoid squashing their little spirits.
Ren
[email protected]
> Mil kept telling her that she was too big to be on my lap and toWhen I had my first, my sister's kids were 4 and 8. They were 5 and 9 when
> get off.
>
my second came. In that time period, her youngest was no longer allowed on her
lap. He became unbelievable jealous, because I had two kids on my lap. Who
knew there was an age limit? Now that my son is almost 5, I can't wait for
these discussions to happen in my family too.
I remember when they were 6 and 18 months I finally had it with my father
telling me I was spoiling the oldest by carrying him at the same time as the
youngest. So I gave my daughter to my father and let him hold her screaming for a
few minutes until he relented and passed her back.
I just don't get it. But I'm beyond the point of needing or seeking their
approval and have told them that. It stopped some of their nagging, but not
all.
I feel for you, but agree with the other responses, follow your instincts.
You've had a professional enough evaluation here, tell your mil that the
judgement is that she is wrong and you are right!
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
milgrom family
Kate,
I don't have experience with evaluations but I do have experience with a child who prefers only mommy.
When my youngest was born he preferred me to anyone. He would only be comforted by me and cried if I had to leave the house. One time at 3years old I was going out and he headed upstairs to his room crying. I asked where he was going and he just said I'll stay in my room til you get home. My husband is a very sensitive caring guy. All this hurt his feelings terribly. I think he compensated by spending more time with our older son. The younger responded by distancing himself even more from his dad. Once I heard the younger one say to his brother "That's my mommy YOU have a Daddy".
The point is I think that my husband's hurt response helped create the distance between them. Your husband thinks (or has been convinced by others) that there is something wrong with your daughter for preferring you. That message is easily picked up by your daughter even though he may never mention it in her presence.
Or maybe your husband wants to know there is something wrong with your daughter so that means there is nothing wrong with him. If he could accept the fact that there doesn't have to be anything wrong with either him or her for her to prefer you it might be easier on him.
Writing this has got me thinking about that time in our lives and I remember we were under a lot of stress. Both Irwin and I were working - him building his business and I building my practise and both of us fighting a lot. Since I had nursed Jordan for 13 months and spent more time with him ( I worked from home) of course he clung to me rather than to his father. He clung because the stress and fighting made him insecure and to me rather than his father as I was the one meeting most of his needs.
You mentioned that you and your husband are in counselling. If there has been a lot of stress prior to your getting counselling perhaps your daughter has picked up on that and her clinginess is simply a survival strategy.
I know that when the stress levels in our house went down, the clinging eventually stopped.
I hope this will help in some way.
Stella
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't have experience with evaluations but I do have experience with a child who prefers only mommy.
When my youngest was born he preferred me to anyone. He would only be comforted by me and cried if I had to leave the house. One time at 3years old I was going out and he headed upstairs to his room crying. I asked where he was going and he just said I'll stay in my room til you get home. My husband is a very sensitive caring guy. All this hurt his feelings terribly. I think he compensated by spending more time with our older son. The younger responded by distancing himself even more from his dad. Once I heard the younger one say to his brother "That's my mommy YOU have a Daddy".
The point is I think that my husband's hurt response helped create the distance between them. Your husband thinks (or has been convinced by others) that there is something wrong with your daughter for preferring you. That message is easily picked up by your daughter even though he may never mention it in her presence.
Or maybe your husband wants to know there is something wrong with your daughter so that means there is nothing wrong with him. If he could accept the fact that there doesn't have to be anything wrong with either him or her for her to prefer you it might be easier on him.
Writing this has got me thinking about that time in our lives and I remember we were under a lot of stress. Both Irwin and I were working - him building his business and I building my practise and both of us fighting a lot. Since I had nursed Jordan for 13 months and spent more time with him ( I worked from home) of course he clung to me rather than to his father. He clung because the stress and fighting made him insecure and to me rather than his father as I was the one meeting most of his needs.
You mentioned that you and your husband are in counselling. If there has been a lot of stress prior to your getting counselling perhaps your daughter has picked up on that and her clinginess is simply a survival strategy.
I know that when the stress levels in our house went down, the clinging eventually stopped.
I hope this will help in some way.
Stella
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]