Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] No kids at party
Annette
> Keith was at a company/boss-invites-team backyard barbecue Saturday. TheySandra,
> said "no kids" so I stayed with Holly and Keith went.
I am interested in hearing a bit more about the choice you made to stay with
your children. Specifically, I'm wondering if your children are old enough
to be alone for the duration of the party but you prefer from a parenting
style to be with them? Do your older children ever watch the youngest? Or
if you might normally have another person stay with your youngest, but did
not or did not want to do that this time?
Just curious. I have a homeschooling teenager who has been watching my
children when I have lawyer or other private appointments. For me, it's
easier for 3 dd's to stay at home because of dietary needs due to allergies
and less stress while they stay in their own home environment. Otherwise I
might sometimes have them visit with another homeschooling family when I
cannot take dd's with me. I find that we genuinely enjoy being together
and therefore minimize the times that we are apart.
So I guess I'm just curious to know if others enjoy the family bond in a way
that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?
I usually volunteer for my children's activities such as Girl Scouts. A
leader can normally bring the younger children along, otherwise there would
be no program. But if I go just as a mom helping out, the younger children
aren't allowed.
I have taken children with me at times and noticed that others seem to find
it inappropriate. I only have three children, but many people seem
unaccustomed to having children around and find three extra bodies
overwhelming. A snooty lady in a toy store once referred to me and my
"litter". If I or one of my children have a doctor's appointment, all four
of us normally go. People in waiting rooms and the doctor's staff seem a
bit unnerve by this at times. Sometimes the waiting rooms are not large
enough to accomodate all. My children are fairly young - almost 11, 8, and
6. I suppose it would be a bit odd for a grown woman to have three teenage
boys tag along! At any rate I'd like to hear from others with young
children as to how you handle familylife and childcare challenges. I'd also
like to hear from those who have older children - do you just naturally
transition at some point to a place/time when the children have a
life/schedule of their own and they don't mind being at home alone?
Thanks, AnnetteVA
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/2/03 6:27:45 AM, annette.yunker@... writes:
<< I am interested in hearing a bit more about the choice you made to stay
with
your children. Specifically, I'm wondering if your children are old enough
to be alone for the duration of the party but you prefer from a parenting
style to be with them? >>
Kirby was at work, I didn't want to commit Marty to being here on a Saturday
afternoon/night (when we discussed it in advance), I don't swim, and I don't
play volleyball.
I've gone with Keith to a fair number of engineer-staff get-togethers, and
they're stunningly dull. "Stun" like brain-numbing.
There's also quite a turnover rate in engineering, and invariably when I've
gone to a party and liked someone, he's gone within a year. (Maybe it's ME!
Maybe I pick the sparkliest and those are the ones who move on.)
-=-Do your older children ever watch the youngest? Or
if you might normally have another person stay with your youngest, but did
not or did not want to do that this time?-=-
It's been more common with us to leave kids with another family if we go
somewhere. That way they're having fun too. Sometimes adult childless friends
have stayed, but we've never asked them to do anything dramatic (like make
food)--they just watch videos or play games with the kids. It's been rare,
overall, that that happens.
Sometimes they stay alone or two will stay here. Now they're all old enough
to stay, but I'd still prefer they have someone over, even another friend, or
that they go to a house with a mom and refrigerator and other kids and all.
<< How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? >>
Sometimes it's just on principle. Sometimes that's a beacon indicating that
the people don't LIKE kid, and it's possible they don't like other adults who
like kids. <g>
The family had six kids. Keith said there was still a playground in their
yard with a swingset and a big plastic climbing house, but their two youngest
are late teens/college, and there #4 was there with his wife. No grandchildren
yet that Keith heard reported in the conversations.
<< I'd also
like to hear from those who have older children - do you just naturally
transition at some point to a place/time when the children have a
life/schedule of their own and they don't mind being at home alone?>>
That's how it happened with us.
When they were littler (and still, sometimes) my husband and I would not go
somewhere together (like the store or a movie) just so the kids had the option
of going with one parent or staying with the other. Between the two of us,
the kids had a choice, and then they were real choices, not inconvenience vs.
"cooperation" as in some situations where what the parent is really asking is
"Will you go with me peacably or will you be a pain in the ass and cause me to
have to make other arrangements?" That's not a very balanced situation. <g>
(Been there too!) But "You can go, or you can stay with dad/mom" isn't so emot
ionally charged.
Sandra
<< I am interested in hearing a bit more about the choice you made to stay
with
your children. Specifically, I'm wondering if your children are old enough
to be alone for the duration of the party but you prefer from a parenting
style to be with them? >>
Kirby was at work, I didn't want to commit Marty to being here on a Saturday
afternoon/night (when we discussed it in advance), I don't swim, and I don't
play volleyball.
I've gone with Keith to a fair number of engineer-staff get-togethers, and
they're stunningly dull. "Stun" like brain-numbing.
There's also quite a turnover rate in engineering, and invariably when I've
gone to a party and liked someone, he's gone within a year. (Maybe it's ME!
Maybe I pick the sparkliest and those are the ones who move on.)
-=-Do your older children ever watch the youngest? Or
if you might normally have another person stay with your youngest, but did
not or did not want to do that this time?-=-
It's been more common with us to leave kids with another family if we go
somewhere. That way they're having fun too. Sometimes adult childless friends
have stayed, but we've never asked them to do anything dramatic (like make
food)--they just watch videos or play games with the kids. It's been rare,
overall, that that happens.
Sometimes they stay alone or two will stay here. Now they're all old enough
to stay, but I'd still prefer they have someone over, even another friend, or
that they go to a house with a mom and refrigerator and other kids and all.
<< How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? >>
Sometimes it's just on principle. Sometimes that's a beacon indicating that
the people don't LIKE kid, and it's possible they don't like other adults who
like kids. <g>
The family had six kids. Keith said there was still a playground in their
yard with a swingset and a big plastic climbing house, but their two youngest
are late teens/college, and there #4 was there with his wife. No grandchildren
yet that Keith heard reported in the conversations.
<< I'd also
like to hear from those who have older children - do you just naturally
transition at some point to a place/time when the children have a
life/schedule of their own and they don't mind being at home alone?>>
That's how it happened with us.
When they were littler (and still, sometimes) my husband and I would not go
somewhere together (like the store or a movie) just so the kids had the option
of going with one parent or staying with the other. Between the two of us,
the kids had a choice, and then they were real choices, not inconvenience vs.
"cooperation" as in some situations where what the parent is really asking is
"Will you go with me peacably or will you be a pain in the ass and cause me to
have to make other arrangements?" That's not a very balanced situation. <g>
(Been there too!) But "You can go, or you can stay with dad/mom" isn't so emot
ionally charged.
Sandra
[email protected]
I normally take my kids with me. We have had to go to the Vet 4 times for a
new puppy and him being sick on arrival. Nicholas is learning to talk and
babbled very loudly. Dustin and Cassidy where back and forth into the room. In the
end it all worked out but it was stressful. I even said something really
stupid. Tucker (New Brittany) arrived off the plane from breeder with mange. Vat
asked if any of us where itchy. I said well my belly seems to be but I had a
baby a year ago so stretch marks you know? When I said this I looked at the
female assistant and she made a face like I had two heads. LOL I should not have
said that.
When I go to baby appointments all three go and it works out. If I have to go
to Walmart and it can wait I go after Nicholas is in bed and the older two
insist they go with me. I rarely go anywhere without some or all of my kids.
Cass 3 is and wanting to control her brother so some times it can be stressful to
appease her so she doesn't scream in public. I guess she has figured out that
when she yells, cries or wines we hop to her even if she is being impossible.
My thinking is its better to work with her than against her in many
situations.
I hope this makes sense I began an email to the group yesterday and never
sent it about my 3 yr. old. Maybe I'll send it later.
Laura D
<<<<<<<At any rate I'd like to hear from others with young
children as to how you handle familylife and childcare challenges. I'd also
like to hear from those who have older children - do you just naturally
transition at some point to a place/time when the children have a
life/schedule of their own and they don't mind being at home alone?
Thanks, AnnetteVA>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
new puppy and him being sick on arrival. Nicholas is learning to talk and
babbled very loudly. Dustin and Cassidy where back and forth into the room. In the
end it all worked out but it was stressful. I even said something really
stupid. Tucker (New Brittany) arrived off the plane from breeder with mange. Vat
asked if any of us where itchy. I said well my belly seems to be but I had a
baby a year ago so stretch marks you know? When I said this I looked at the
female assistant and she made a face like I had two heads. LOL I should not have
said that.
When I go to baby appointments all three go and it works out. If I have to go
to Walmart and it can wait I go after Nicholas is in bed and the older two
insist they go with me. I rarely go anywhere without some or all of my kids.
Cass 3 is and wanting to control her brother so some times it can be stressful to
appease her so she doesn't scream in public. I guess she has figured out that
when she yells, cries or wines we hop to her even if she is being impossible.
My thinking is its better to work with her than against her in many
situations.
I hope this makes sense I began an email to the group yesterday and never
sent it about my 3 yr. old. Maybe I'll send it later.
Laura D
<<<<<<<At any rate I'd like to hear from others with young
children as to how you handle familylife and childcare challenges. I'd also
like to hear from those who have older children - do you just naturally
transition at some point to a place/time when the children have a
life/schedule of their own and they don't mind being at home alone?
Thanks, AnnetteVA>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kris
<<Sometimes it's just on principle. Sometimes that's a beacon indicating
that
the people don't LIKE kid, and it's possible they don't like other adults
who
like kids. <g>>>
One of my mottos is "I don't trust people who don't like kids". My
experience is that these people are self-centered and egocentric, so eager
to have all the attention and boring to boot.
Some people, especially elderly folks, get nervous around the noise kids
seem to make but truly respect them. I can live with that.
Kris
that
the people don't LIKE kid, and it's possible they don't like other adults
who
like kids. <g>>>
One of my mottos is "I don't trust people who don't like kids". My
experience is that these people are self-centered and egocentric, so eager
to have all the attention and boring to boot.
Some people, especially elderly folks, get nervous around the noise kids
seem to make but truly respect them. I can live with that.
Kris
Mary
From: "Annette" <annette.yunker@...>
<<So I guess I'm just curious to know if others enjoy the family bond in a
way
that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?>>
I very rarely go anywhere without at least one child with me. Once in awhile
I want to go out alone. Sometimes to just be alone but often because I want
to be quick. When the kids are with me, we always browse, even in the
grocery store!!!!!
Alyssa usually wants to go with me. Sierra usually wants to go. Joseph not
unless we go where there are toys. The grocery store doesn't count. Tara
usually does her own thing but if it's early enough or she doesn't have to
work, she'll join us all. It's nice because the girls usually want to go
with her in the store. I get two less kids to keep track of!!!
I can't ever think of an opportunity where we didn't go because of not being
*allowed* to take the kids. No weddings or picnics or get togethers where I
was told not to bring them. Then again Joe and I are very informal, making
our friends the same too. (because they naturally are not because we "make"
them!)
When I have to go to the vets, the kids usually stay home. It's hard enough
with the 2 dogs let alone kids too. If it's the Dr. then only the sick one
goes. We are rarely there. If it's the dentist, then both Sierra and Joseph
have an appt. and I take Alyssa too. She'll be going soon enough, why not
see it's no big deal?
I rarely have Tara watch the kids. Once in awhile if I have to run out quick
or Joe and I have to drop something off like a car, Tara is home and we're
only gone for minutes. Tara has never watched the kids at night while we
went out for any reason. She could and we would be very comfortable with
that, but we get my mom. I don't want Tara staying home to watch kids. Most
of the time when we go out, it's the weekend and Tara is going out too. No
one but my mom has ever watched the kids.
My inlaws think that's a bad thing. We all know what I think of them. <BEG>
Mary B
<<So I guess I'm just curious to know if others enjoy the family bond in a
way
that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?>>
I very rarely go anywhere without at least one child with me. Once in awhile
I want to go out alone. Sometimes to just be alone but often because I want
to be quick. When the kids are with me, we always browse, even in the
grocery store!!!!!
Alyssa usually wants to go with me. Sierra usually wants to go. Joseph not
unless we go where there are toys. The grocery store doesn't count. Tara
usually does her own thing but if it's early enough or she doesn't have to
work, she'll join us all. It's nice because the girls usually want to go
with her in the store. I get two less kids to keep track of!!!
I can't ever think of an opportunity where we didn't go because of not being
*allowed* to take the kids. No weddings or picnics or get togethers where I
was told not to bring them. Then again Joe and I are very informal, making
our friends the same too. (because they naturally are not because we "make"
them!)
When I have to go to the vets, the kids usually stay home. It's hard enough
with the 2 dogs let alone kids too. If it's the Dr. then only the sick one
goes. We are rarely there. If it's the dentist, then both Sierra and Joseph
have an appt. and I take Alyssa too. She'll be going soon enough, why not
see it's no big deal?
I rarely have Tara watch the kids. Once in awhile if I have to run out quick
or Joe and I have to drop something off like a car, Tara is home and we're
only gone for minutes. Tara has never watched the kids at night while we
went out for any reason. She could and we would be very comfortable with
that, but we get my mom. I don't want Tara staying home to watch kids. Most
of the time when we go out, it's the weekend and Tara is going out too. No
one but my mom has ever watched the kids.
My inlaws think that's a bad thing. We all know what I think of them. <BEG>
Mary B
Mary
From: "Kris" <louisa@...>
<<Some people, especially elderly folks, get nervous around the noise kids
seem to make but truly respect them. I can live with that.>>
Years ago before we moved into our house now, my mom lived in a retirement
condo community. They had pools and we had none at the time. We would take
the kids over to swim. Joseph and Sierra were 4 and 5. There was a group of
women sitting around the pool the first time we went. Older coffee clutch
looking women. The kids stated getting a bit noisy and I remember telling
them to not get so loud. One woman heard me and said not to quiet them down
a bit, she loved hearing the kids scream and laugh and have fun. She said
that place needed more of that. All the women agreed. It was so nice to
hear.
Mary B
<<Some people, especially elderly folks, get nervous around the noise kids
seem to make but truly respect them. I can live with that.>>
Years ago before we moved into our house now, my mom lived in a retirement
condo community. They had pools and we had none at the time. We would take
the kids over to swim. Joseph and Sierra were 4 and 5. There was a group of
women sitting around the pool the first time we went. Older coffee clutch
looking women. The kids stated getting a bit noisy and I remember telling
them to not get so loud. One woman heard me and said not to quiet them down
a bit, she loved hearing the kids scream and laugh and have fun. She said
that place needed more of that. All the women agreed. It was so nice to
hear.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 02/07/2003 05:27:45 Pacific Daylight Time,
annette.yunker@... writes:
my son is 7.5, daughter is 21 mos. They go with me when possible, daughter
almost all the time, as she is still nursing. Son will go to a friend's house if
possible, and if they can't come or if I am riding the horse or just getting
away for a moment(Very rare, don't often feel the need)the two will stay with
my husband at home. Twice I have left dd with my mom, both times in dire
situations.
We just don't go to things that don't include our children if we can avoid
it. Lately I have been yearning to go for tea with Maureen, but it is hard to
do, and I really feel the pull towards my children when we are apart. I get to
ride my horse about once a week, but that seems to satisfy me and after an hour
I am ready to go back.
I truly like my children and like to be with them.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
annette.yunker@... writes:
> So I guess I'm just curious to know if others enjoy the family bond in aHi Annette,
> way
> that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
> Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
> on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
> children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
> absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?
>
my son is 7.5, daughter is 21 mos. They go with me when possible, daughter
almost all the time, as she is still nursing. Son will go to a friend's house if
possible, and if they can't come or if I am riding the horse or just getting
away for a moment(Very rare, don't often feel the need)the two will stay with
my husband at home. Twice I have left dd with my mom, both times in dire
situations.
We just don't go to things that don't include our children if we can avoid
it. Lately I have been yearning to go for tea with Maureen, but it is hard to
do, and I really feel the pull towards my children when we are apart. I get to
ride my horse about once a week, but that seems to satisfy me and after an hour
I am ready to go back.
I truly like my children and like to be with them.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kris
<<<<So I guess I'm just curious to know if others enjoy the family bond in a
way
that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?>>
I have chosen to stay home when told that kids were not welcome but it
depends on the event. Some events can be disrupted by too much noise and I
understand but if it's a matter of disliking kids, they know where I stand.
People used to tell me all the time, "You need some time away from Lanora."
I even began to feel guilty, like I should get out, even though I didn't
feel the urge. Finally, I got wise and just said nicely, "Ya know, I really
don't, I like being with her and she makes the things I do more fun".
They looked at me like I had a water buffalo glued to my forehead but I
didn't expect them to understand, just stop nagging me.
Kris
way
that they make choices similar to Sandra's? (I realize I don't know
Sandra's reasons yet, just her choice). How often do you find that you pass
on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?>>
I have chosen to stay home when told that kids were not welcome but it
depends on the event. Some events can be disrupted by too much noise and I
understand but if it's a matter of disliking kids, they know where I stand.
People used to tell me all the time, "You need some time away from Lanora."
I even began to feel guilty, like I should get out, even though I didn't
feel the urge. Finally, I got wise and just said nicely, "Ya know, I really
don't, I like being with her and she makes the things I do more fun".
They looked at me like I had a water buffalo glued to my forehead but I
didn't expect them to understand, just stop nagging me.
Kris
Mary
From: "Kris" <louisa@...>
<<They looked at me like I had a water buffalo glued to my forehead but I
didn't expect them to understand, just stop nagging me.>>
I had this an awful lot from my in laws and only after Joseph and Sierra
were born. (13 months apart) I guess they figured I didn't need "time away"
from Tara as she went with her dad at times too. But after Joseph and Sierra
came along, they were always asking me to Tupperwares/candle/home decor/dish
etc. parties it was sickening. Never invited me before and all of sudden I
"needed to get out of the house, away from the kids, just with the girls.
Not unless I was crazy!!!!! And since all this stuff was usually at night,
it meant not only time away from my children but my husband too. I declined
every single one of them and told them why. I didn't want to be away from my
family and I didn't "need" time away from them.
You have no idea how happy I was when they finally got it and stopped
asking.
Mary B
<<They looked at me like I had a water buffalo glued to my forehead but I
didn't expect them to understand, just stop nagging me.>>
I had this an awful lot from my in laws and only after Joseph and Sierra
were born. (13 months apart) I guess they figured I didn't need "time away"
from Tara as she went with her dad at times too. But after Joseph and Sierra
came along, they were always asking me to Tupperwares/candle/home decor/dish
etc. parties it was sickening. Never invited me before and all of sudden I
"needed to get out of the house, away from the kids, just with the girls.
Not unless I was crazy!!!!! And since all this stuff was usually at night,
it meant not only time away from my children but my husband too. I declined
every single one of them and told them why. I didn't want to be away from my
family and I didn't "need" time away from them.
You have no idea how happy I was when they finally got it and stopped
asking.
Mary B
Kris
<<Fast forward to us having children of our own and wanting to include
them in our lives *and* just plain knowing better makes us realize our
folly. Basically, I'm trying to say that what your perception is of
certain situations _may_ not be what the hosts are "saying" at all. :)
TreeGoddess>>
True and I don't automatically assume it's a dislike of children. It's
usually the personality of the person that gives them away first, then lo
and behold, they let me know they don't like kids.
They get the message very clearly what I think of their "issue" and that
usually settles that.
Kris
them in our lives *and* just plain knowing better makes us realize our
folly. Basically, I'm trying to say that what your perception is of
certain situations _may_ not be what the hosts are "saying" at all. :)
TreeGoddess>>
True and I don't automatically assume it's a dislike of children. It's
usually the personality of the person that gives them away first, then lo
and behold, they let me know they don't like kids.
They get the message very clearly what I think of their "issue" and that
usually settles that.
Kris
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/3/03 12:33:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
louisa@... writes:
our families live far away. We don't leave our boys with "sitters." I don't
know anyone here well enough to trust them with my children. My youngest I
believe would not go for it anyway.
But I do get the "you should be away from the boys more" "It isn't good to be
together all the time" which I believe is a version of "they will grow up to
be clingy and dependent on you forever if you don't force them away." I hate
that. I usually just explain that we really enjoy each other's company and
doing things together. So I have parties etc and make sure to invite friends,
coworkers and all the children as well. We have great parties. I totally
understand if someone wants an all adult party though. I just won't be there. No
hard feelings or anything just not for me.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
louisa@... writes:
> People used to tell me all the time, "You need some time away from Lanora."People say that to us a lot. We have only been here for about 5 years. Both
> I even began to feel guilty, like I should get out, even though I didn't
> feel the urge. Finally, I got wise and just said nicely, "Ya know, I really
> don't, I like being with her and she makes the things I do more fun".
>
>
our families live far away. We don't leave our boys with "sitters." I don't
know anyone here well enough to trust them with my children. My youngest I
believe would not go for it anyway.
But I do get the "you should be away from the boys more" "It isn't good to be
together all the time" which I believe is a version of "they will grow up to
be clingy and dependent on you forever if you don't force them away." I hate
that. I usually just explain that we really enjoy each other's company and
doing things together. So I have parties etc and make sure to invite friends,
coworkers and all the children as well. We have great parties. I totally
understand if someone wants an all adult party though. I just won't be there. No
hard feelings or anything just not for me.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
7/2/03 22:58:
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it.
brenda
> One of my mottos is "I don't trust people who don't like kids". MyHmmmm....I've met childless people that just aren't into kids, and we have a
> experience is that these people are self-centered and egocentric, so eager
> to have all the attention and boring to boot.
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it.
brenda
Kris
<<Hmmmm....I've met childless people that just aren't into kids, and we have
a
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it.
brenda>>
Just not being into kids and not liking them are different though. Even my
own mother, 81, has a limited tolerance for them but she respects them and
treats them well.
Parents who don't like kids; I had a conversation with a woman like this two
days ago. She is my neighbor's daughter and is visiting, she is not nice to
her children and doesn't like them, it was a bummer. I got away from her as
quick as I could without damaging my relationship as a neighbor, she wasn't
the type to listen to any encouragement to be nice.
Lanora had gone for a short walk with her two boys during this time. When
she came back she said that they had gone into an area that they had been
told not to go, they didn't tell her until afterwards. They said, "Don't
tell your mom." She just laughed and said, "Why wouldn't I?"
She thought it was so weird to be afraid like that and the idea of lying to
me, even if I might not like what she did, is foreign to her. It's standard
operating procedure for these kids and who can blame them? Of course, where
do they want to hang out while they're visiting grandma, my house.
Kris
a
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it.
brenda>>
Just not being into kids and not liking them are different though. Even my
own mother, 81, has a limited tolerance for them but she respects them and
treats them well.
Parents who don't like kids; I had a conversation with a woman like this two
days ago. She is my neighbor's daughter and is visiting, she is not nice to
her children and doesn't like them, it was a bummer. I got away from her as
quick as I could without damaging my relationship as a neighbor, she wasn't
the type to listen to any encouragement to be nice.
Lanora had gone for a short walk with her two boys during this time. When
she came back she said that they had gone into an area that they had been
told not to go, they didn't tell her until afterwards. They said, "Don't
tell your mom." She just laughed and said, "Why wouldn't I?"
She thought it was so weird to be afraid like that and the idea of lying to
me, even if I might not like what she did, is foreign to her. It's standard
operating procedure for these kids and who can blame them? Of course, where
do they want to hang out while they're visiting grandma, my house.
Kris
Bill and Diane
We usually go places as a family. My kids usually want to go with me
wherever I go, although Brian doesn't really *like* going to the grocery
store. He'd rather go and complain than stay home without me. My dh is
the house spouse, but I'm still the primary parent. I go to work all by
myself 2-3 days a week, usually before anyone else in the family is up.
About once every week or two I'll take 2-4 hours off and run off all by
myself, leaving the kids with dh.
The last time I got a stranger to care for my kids was when my dh was
sick and I had to work. The only time we've had a babysitter for a
"date" was for the first Harry Potter movie when we took the kids to a
good friend's house to play with her kids and neices and nephews.
For dh's medical appointments we all go. If it's for one of the kids, I
take the kid and Dad stays home with the other kid.
In general we like to be together. I took only my 4-year-old to my work
birthday party. I don't attend work parties that don't allow kids. My
job had a great picnic last summer at a theme park and I took both kids.
There was also a lovely (I'm told) Christmas party that was adults only.
I wasn't the only one who didn't go because they'd rather be with their
kids.
:-) Diane
wherever I go, although Brian doesn't really *like* going to the grocery
store. He'd rather go and complain than stay home without me. My dh is
the house spouse, but I'm still the primary parent. I go to work all by
myself 2-3 days a week, usually before anyone else in the family is up.
About once every week or two I'll take 2-4 hours off and run off all by
myself, leaving the kids with dh.
The last time I got a stranger to care for my kids was when my dh was
sick and I had to work. The only time we've had a babysitter for a
"date" was for the first Harry Potter movie when we took the kids to a
good friend's house to play with her kids and neices and nephews.
For dh's medical appointments we all go. If it's for one of the kids, I
take the kid and Dad stays home with the other kid.
In general we like to be together. I took only my 4-year-old to my work
birthday party. I don't attend work parties that don't allow kids. My
job had a great picnic last summer at a theme park and I took both kids.
There was also a lovely (I'm told) Christmas party that was adults only.
I wasn't the only one who didn't go because they'd rather be with their
kids.
:-) Diane
>>How often do you find that you pass
>>on an opportunity because it excludes one/some (based on age) or all of your
>>children? Who typically cares for your children at times when you
>>absolutely must fulfill an obligation without children with you?
>>
Mary
From: "Kris" <louisa@...>
<<Just not being into kids and not liking them are different though. Even
my
own mother, 81, has a limited tolerance for them but she respects them and
treats them well.>>
When Joseph was around 3 months old, I had in the stroller and was waiting
at my daughter's school to pick her up. I was talking to another mother
about Joseph and I mentioned that we wanted more soon. (little did I know
how soon!) Anyway, another mother I knew from Tara's class who has only one
son, turned around with the most shocked look on her face and said "What are
you, crazy???" I mean almost yelling it. She started to mumble about how one
is so much of a pain, and now that I had two, how could I possibly be in my
right mind to want more. I wasn't nearly as forceful as I would have been
now but I did let her know how I felt about what she said. The other mother
looked horrified that anyone would talk to a mom. The rude woman never spoke
to me after that. Of course in the next few months I was pregnant again so
she thought I must have really been nuts. She should see us now!!!!
Mary B
<<Just not being into kids and not liking them are different though. Even
my
own mother, 81, has a limited tolerance for them but she respects them and
treats them well.>>
When Joseph was around 3 months old, I had in the stroller and was waiting
at my daughter's school to pick her up. I was talking to another mother
about Joseph and I mentioned that we wanted more soon. (little did I know
how soon!) Anyway, another mother I knew from Tara's class who has only one
son, turned around with the most shocked look on her face and said "What are
you, crazy???" I mean almost yelling it. She started to mumble about how one
is so much of a pain, and now that I had two, how could I possibly be in my
right mind to want more. I wasn't nearly as forceful as I would have been
now but I did let her know how I felt about what she said. The other mother
looked horrified that anyone would talk to a mom. The rude woman never spoke
to me after that. Of course in the next few months I was pregnant again so
she thought I must have really been nuts. She should see us now!!!!
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/3/03 7:44:23 AM, abtleo@... writes:
<<
Hmmmm....I've met childless people that just aren't into kids, and we have a
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it. >>
Same with me.
Before Keith and I had kids, we'd been together for six years, and had LOTS
of childless couples as regular hanging-out friends. One had some babie, and
it wasn't very fun to still try to play the same games or have the same kinds
of conversations with their babies and toddlers around. When Keith and I had
Kirby, we knew the same thing would happen.
When I started going to La Leche League, I found new friends with kids. I
felt disloyal to my old friends, and for a while I still tried to get together
with them. But what I needed to do and wanted to do with little kids was NOT
sit and play a game for three or four hours, or watch a movie and drink, and
was not go to the mountains and get stoned.
None of that was right or good anymore, because I wasn't just Sandra, I was
Kirby's mom.
But flashing forward to Kirby being almost grown, I no longer have the need
to socialize with just adult company. Kirby does that now--hangs out with
people who are 30 and less, and they play games for hours and watch movies.
I think it's a phase, and that humans go through lots of natural phases.
Humans also (in this culture for sure) tend to want to stay young, and to have
a party and say "no kids" seems to me to be a throwback to pretending to be
childless.
In the 50's and 60's, there was a plain term for "no kids'" parties:
Cocktail party.
But the trend to dress up and have prescription chitchat for two hours died
out. Now people wear casual clothes to parties, and and the clear difference
between the party and the everyday afternoon isn't so clear.
Sometimes I have an adult friend over and no kids are here. Often it's
another mom, whose kids are elsewhere (maybe with mine! <g>). It's nice, but we
invariably talk about our kids!
Another phase of life, just as natural and good as the rest.
Sandra
<<
Hmmmm....I've met childless people that just aren't into kids, and we have a
good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it. >>
Same with me.
Before Keith and I had kids, we'd been together for six years, and had LOTS
of childless couples as regular hanging-out friends. One had some babie, and
it wasn't very fun to still try to play the same games or have the same kinds
of conversations with their babies and toddlers around. When Keith and I had
Kirby, we knew the same thing would happen.
When I started going to La Leche League, I found new friends with kids. I
felt disloyal to my old friends, and for a while I still tried to get together
with them. But what I needed to do and wanted to do with little kids was NOT
sit and play a game for three or four hours, or watch a movie and drink, and
was not go to the mountains and get stoned.
None of that was right or good anymore, because I wasn't just Sandra, I was
Kirby's mom.
But flashing forward to Kirby being almost grown, I no longer have the need
to socialize with just adult company. Kirby does that now--hangs out with
people who are 30 and less, and they play games for hours and watch movies.
I think it's a phase, and that humans go through lots of natural phases.
Humans also (in this culture for sure) tend to want to stay young, and to have
a party and say "no kids" seems to me to be a throwback to pretending to be
childless.
In the 50's and 60's, there was a plain term for "no kids'" parties:
Cocktail party.
But the trend to dress up and have prescription chitchat for two hours died
out. Now people wear casual clothes to parties, and and the clear difference
between the party and the everyday afternoon isn't so clear.
Sometimes I have an adult friend over and no kids are here. Often it's
another mom, whose kids are elsewhere (maybe with mine! <g>). It's nice, but we
invariably talk about our kids!
Another phase of life, just as natural and good as the rest.
Sandra
24hrmom
In a message dated 7/3/03 7:44:23 AM, abtleo@... writes:
<<But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it. >>
I don't get it either.
Over the last year when I would tell family and friends that we are homeschooling invariably the mothers would comment that they just couldn't do it. That they couldn't spend all that time with their kids. And they would ask where did I get all the energy to do it?
I would just shrug and tell them, you know what, I actually feel more energized at the end of the day. I explain I'm not expending energy trying to push the kids through a bunch of obligations under time constraints (getting ready for school, out the door, to afterschool activities, doing homework, off to bed etc.). And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them doing things they enjoy. That though I may be tired at the end of the day, I really feel very energized, not drained.
Sometimes you can see a flicker of understanding, especially about the energy it takes to push their kids through the daily schedule. If so, I may liken it to taking a vacation ... say something like, "do you notice that everybody in your family gets along so much better when you're on vacation?" But usually they just shake their head and say "wow", or some other expression of total bewilderment. LOL
Pam L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it. >>
I don't get it either.
Over the last year when I would tell family and friends that we are homeschooling invariably the mothers would comment that they just couldn't do it. That they couldn't spend all that time with their kids. And they would ask where did I get all the energy to do it?
I would just shrug and tell them, you know what, I actually feel more energized at the end of the day. I explain I'm not expending energy trying to push the kids through a bunch of obligations under time constraints (getting ready for school, out the door, to afterschool activities, doing homework, off to bed etc.). And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them doing things they enjoy. That though I may be tired at the end of the day, I really feel very energized, not drained.
Sometimes you can see a flicker of understanding, especially about the energy it takes to push their kids through the daily schedule. If so, I may liken it to taking a vacation ... say something like, "do you notice that everybody in your family gets along so much better when you're on vacation?" But usually they just shake their head and say "wow", or some other expression of total bewilderment. LOL
Pam L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/3/2003 9:44:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
abtleo@... writes:
have children, have tried for years, and are so deep in the moors of
deppression that being around a happy, childfilled family is too painful for them.
Haven't run across people like this very often, but it does happen.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
abtleo@... writes:
> Hmmmm....I've met childless people that just aren't into kids, and we haveThere's also another explaination. I've known childless couples that CAN'T
> a
> good time together, just not with my son or any other kids. That's ok, to
> me. But parents who don't like kids are just wierd to me, and there's a
> fair number of them around where I live. I don't get it.
>
have children, have tried for years, and are so deep in the moors of
deppression that being around a happy, childfilled family is too painful for them.
Haven't run across people like this very often, but it does happen.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/2003 7:48:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
24hrmom@... writes:
I tell them I LOVE *my* children. They blubber for a while. Then I may soften
it with an explanation similar to yours---unless they're creeps! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom@... writes:
> don't get it either.Well, You're just too sweet, Pam! <G>
>
> Over the last year when I would tell family and friends that we are
> homeschooling invariably the mothers would comment that they just couldn't do it.
> That they couldn't spend all that time with their kids. And they would ask
> where did I get all the energy to do it?
>
> I would just shrug and tell them, you know what, I actually feel more
> energized at the end of the day. I explain I'm not expending energy trying to push
> the kids through a bunch of obligations under time constraints (getting
> ready for school, out the door, to afterschool activities, doing homework, off to
> bed etc.). And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them
> doing things they enjoy. That though I may be tired at the end of the day, I
> really feel very energized, not drained.
I tell them I LOVE *my* children. They blubber for a while. Then I may soften
it with an explanation similar to yours---unless they're creeps! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "24hrmom"
<24hrmom@s...> wrote:
they just couldn't do it. That they couldn't spend all that time with
Me: Or they say that they couldn't stand being with their kids 24/7
while they're holding the hand of their four year old little girl.
energy trying to push the kids through a bunch of obligations
under time constraints (getting ready for school, out the door, to
afterschool activities, doing homework, off to bed etc.).
Me: Blimey good answer! I usually say that I love being with my
kids. I think they're really neat people and I can't imagine missing
out on so much of their lives.
schedule.
Me: Can't wait to try that answer.
better when you're on vacation?" But usually they just shake their
Me: My dh is convinced that homeschooling is what makes our
vacations so stress-free. The kids are used to getting along and
we just don't deal with the fighting.
I was at a picnic for Jacob's (11) baseball team the other night.
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. Here's a sample of some of their
comments (I started keeping track!)
(about a 14 yr old dd) Daughter complains that she has been
forced to come to a brother's baseball game to the mom and
mom says, "Why did I want you to come to the game again?"
Then mom rolls her eyes about dd who is so unreasonable.
Goes on to explain her selfishness.
(about 11 year old son) "He's the kind that doesn't work up to his
potential in school. I had to organize a summer school program
for him to do with the baby sitter. She almost had to tie him down
to get him to do it. He's just one of those kids who doesn't like to
work and is easily distracted. But he learned. He got all As and
Bs this year. You just have to ride him."
"Be nice to your brother and let him play. I'm not getting in the
middle of your arguments again here at a picnic." (Eye roll to
sympathizing parents). "These two always go at it." Little brother
runs down hill to join ball game. My son tells me later that the big
brother and three members of the team mercilessly teased little
brother calling him names and taunting him. Horrified my son.
Then the usual assortment of comments about how I'm so
heroic for staying home with our kids and how impossible it
would be in their cases, with *their* kids.
Sigh.
Julie B
<24hrmom@s...> wrote:
>are homeschooling invariably the mothers would comment that
> Over the last year when I would tell family and friends that we
they just couldn't do it. That they couldn't spend all that time with
>>their kids. And they would ask where did I get all the energy todo it?
Me: Or they say that they couldn't stand being with their kids 24/7
while they're holding the hand of their four year old little girl.
>more energized at the end of the day. I explain I'm not expending
> I would just shrug and tell them, you know what, I actually feel
energy trying to push the kids through a bunch of obligations
under time constraints (getting ready for school, out the door, to
afterschool activities, doing homework, off to bed etc.).
Me: Blimey good answer! I usually say that I love being with my
kids. I think they're really neat people and I can't imagine missing
out on so much of their lives.
>about the energy it takes to push their kids through the daily
> Sometimes you can see a flicker of understanding, especially
schedule.
Me: Can't wait to try that answer.
>>If so, I may liken it to taking a vacation ... say something like,"do you notice that everybody in your family gets along so much
better when you're on vacation?" But usually they just shake their
>>head and say "wow", or some other expression of totalbewilderment. LOL
Me: My dh is convinced that homeschooling is what makes our
vacations so stress-free. The kids are used to getting along and
we just don't deal with the fighting.
I was at a picnic for Jacob's (11) baseball team the other night.
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. Here's a sample of some of their
comments (I started keeping track!)
(about a 14 yr old dd) Daughter complains that she has been
forced to come to a brother's baseball game to the mom and
mom says, "Why did I want you to come to the game again?"
Then mom rolls her eyes about dd who is so unreasonable.
Goes on to explain her selfishness.
(about 11 year old son) "He's the kind that doesn't work up to his
potential in school. I had to organize a summer school program
for him to do with the baby sitter. She almost had to tie him down
to get him to do it. He's just one of those kids who doesn't like to
work and is easily distracted. But he learned. He got all As and
Bs this year. You just have to ride him."
"Be nice to your brother and let him play. I'm not getting in the
middle of your arguments again here at a picnic." (Eye roll to
sympathizing parents). "These two always go at it." Little brother
runs down hill to join ball game. My son tells me later that the big
brother and three members of the team mercilessly teased little
brother calling him names and taunting him. Horrified my son.
Then the usual assortment of comments about how I'm so
heroic for staying home with our kids and how impossible it
would be in their cases, with *their* kids.
Sigh.
Julie B
Betsy
> I would just shrug and tell them, you know what, I actually feel moreThis is good. I might myself say something like "We get along really
> energized at the end of the day. I explain I'm not expending energy trying to push
> the kids through a bunch of obligations under time constraints (getting
> ready for school, out the door, to afterschool activities, doing homework, off to
> bed etc.). And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them
> doing things they enjoy. That though I may be tired at the end of the day, I
> really feel very energized, not drained.
well. We find that the more time we spend together the easier it gets
to work things out."
If you want to really rattle their brains, you could try something like
"We do lots of stuff that the kids really enjoy and that makes for a
happy family."
Betsy
Betsy
**I was at a picnic for Jacob's (11) baseball team the other night.
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. Here's a sample of some of their
comments (I started keeping track!)**
Ick! But aren't there some cultures that feel it is bad luck to praise
children that it makes the gods jealous and is just "tempting fate"?
Betsy
**Then the usual assortment of comments about how I'm so
heroic for staying home with our kids and how impossible it
would be in their cases, with *their* kids.**
This would aggravate me, too. In hindsight, this seems like a good
opportunity to tell them what you admire about their childen. (If you
know them.) "Oh, Jordan has such nice manners.... is so funny... is so
thoughful... is a favorite guest at our house..."
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. Here's a sample of some of their
comments (I started keeping track!)**
Ick! But aren't there some cultures that feel it is bad luck to praise
children that it makes the gods jealous and is just "tempting fate"?
Betsy
**Then the usual assortment of comments about how I'm so
heroic for staying home with our kids and how impossible it
would be in their cases, with *their* kids.**
This would aggravate me, too. In hindsight, this seems like a good
opportunity to tell them what you admire about their childen. (If you
know them.) "Oh, Jordan has such nice manners.... is so funny... is so
thoughful... is a favorite guest at our house..."
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], Betsy
<ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
I sort of accidentally shame them out of being hard on their
children when I start saying how neat their children are. :) They
can't quite keep going with criticisms in the face of compliments!
Julie B
<ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
>good
> **Then the usual assortment of comments about how I'm so
> heroic for staying home with our kids and how impossible it
> would be in their cases, with *their* kids.**
>
> This would aggravate me, too. In hindsight, this seems like a
> opportunity to tell them what you admire about their childen. (Ifyou
> know them.) "Oh, Jordan has such nice manners.... is sofunny... is so
> thoughful... is a favorite guest at our house..."That's what I try to do too (when I know the kids). In fact, I feel like
I sort of accidentally shame them out of being hard on their
children when I start saying how neat their children are. :) They
can't quite keep going with criticisms in the face of compliments!
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/2003 8:08:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:
every function that we were invited to had a child that was nearly the same age
as our son. For me, it made it very difficult not to be either very upset or
find myself staring in a trance like state wondering if Jackson would be doing
the same thing right now if he were here.
We have one cousin on DH's side of the family that has a son that was born
the same day as Jack, sometimes it's a joy to hold him and play with him and
watch him, other times it's sheer torture.
That being said it's MY problem to deal with not anyone else's who has
children that they want to bring to functions. There were people around who were
sensitive and tried to make it easier for me at certain events but that seemed
to always just bring more inquisitiveness and attention than I could deal with.
It is HARD for people who desperately want children or who even want a
specific child back to be around laughing playing children, SOMETIMES. Sometimes
the kindest thing IS having someone quietly ask if you would like to hold THEIR
baby, offered out of love.
Most times around here it's a space, money issues if children are not
included. There might be many functions throughout the year where all family is
welcome, including extended families and all the children a place can hold.
Certain functions they do ask no children unless they are nursing infants, but
often they provide a central location for all the kiddies to be supervised and
have a party of their own, on a much less grand scale. My daughters often have
entertained the children at these events.
The first time ever we were invited to a strictly no children event was only
last summer and I was somewhat surprised by it. They said it was a fish
fry/barbque and they didn't want little children running around the grills and
kettles of oil. I replied that my children are old enough that would not be a
concern, then they said it was a space issue. I didn't know these people well,
they were business associates of DH but he really wanted me to go, so I did.
My oldest daughter tagged along. It was boring, LOTS of drinking, suspected
drug taking and we left. So THAT'S what goes on at adult only events???? I can
skip them, they are not for me!
glena who is sure they are wonderful parties for adults that are great fun,
just not for me
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CelticFrau@... writes:
> There's also another explaination. I've known childless couples that CAN'TI also know couples like this. Also after the death of our son it seemed
>
> have children, have tried for years, and are so deep in the moors of
> deppression that being around a happy, childfilled family is too painful for
> them.
> Haven't run across people like this very often, but it does happen.
>
> Nancy
>
>
every function that we were invited to had a child that was nearly the same age
as our son. For me, it made it very difficult not to be either very upset or
find myself staring in a trance like state wondering if Jackson would be doing
the same thing right now if he were here.
We have one cousin on DH's side of the family that has a son that was born
the same day as Jack, sometimes it's a joy to hold him and play with him and
watch him, other times it's sheer torture.
That being said it's MY problem to deal with not anyone else's who has
children that they want to bring to functions. There were people around who were
sensitive and tried to make it easier for me at certain events but that seemed
to always just bring more inquisitiveness and attention than I could deal with.
It is HARD for people who desperately want children or who even want a
specific child back to be around laughing playing children, SOMETIMES. Sometimes
the kindest thing IS having someone quietly ask if you would like to hold THEIR
baby, offered out of love.
Most times around here it's a space, money issues if children are not
included. There might be many functions throughout the year where all family is
welcome, including extended families and all the children a place can hold.
Certain functions they do ask no children unless they are nursing infants, but
often they provide a central location for all the kiddies to be supervised and
have a party of their own, on a much less grand scale. My daughters often have
entertained the children at these events.
The first time ever we were invited to a strictly no children event was only
last summer and I was somewhat surprised by it. They said it was a fish
fry/barbque and they didn't want little children running around the grills and
kettles of oil. I replied that my children are old enough that would not be a
concern, then they said it was a space issue. I didn't know these people well,
they were business associates of DH but he really wanted me to go, so I did.
My oldest daughter tagged along. It was boring, LOTS of drinking, suspected
drug taking and we left. So THAT'S what goes on at adult only events???? I can
skip them, they are not for me!
glena who is sure they are wonderful parties for adults that are great fun,
just not for me
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/03 6:46:28 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them
possibly feel successful at the end of the day because their children are STILL
in school, they're STILL not to retirement age. Those goals are so far away
and only little baby steps (and steps back) to show for them.
But when I'm with my kids in a live-in-the-moment way, my "goals" are met by
the hour or by the second. I succeed over and over every day. Some days I go
to sleep so peacefully satisfied that if the morning didn't come I would feel
successful.
Last night I had an IM exchange with a friend from long ago, who was in LLL
and the babysitting co-op with me. She divorced and is raising her only
child, a 13 year old boy now, alone, in a state around where Shyrley is, and so lay
THAT set of other social expectations over it. She's not in New Mexico
anymore, but she was never from here. She's was a city girl, and Jewish
intellectual girl, but who had neglectful and inexplicably mean parents.
She's definitely not homeschooling, but she still looks to me, with my
slightly older boys whom she knew when they were little, and she asks advice.
Last night it started about what I do when I have the urge to throttle my
boys.
I said I talk to them, though the urge rarely comes.
You can probably guess how the exchange went. I asked whether the problem
involved his wanting to to do something she wouldn't let him do, and she said OF
COURSE.
From there I knew it could only get sadder.
The impasse involved as much of her neediness as his, but he's 13 and she's
40ish.
Her day did not end well at all, and her Today might be going better, I hope,
but that scar will never totally disappear, from things that were done and
said between them yesterday.
While I was exchanging instant message with her, my boys who have pretty much
the freedom of the city were: Kirby in the library playing a game with Joey,
a homeschooler who kinda lives at our house much of the time; Marty sitting
next to me, playing a rented playstation game intently; Holly in and out of
Kirby's room (where I was on the computer) showing us things she was making and
doing and telling us stories about her long day away at three different
activities.
I went to sleep feeling successful.
Sandra
<< And that I really enjoy watching (or participating with) them
> doing things they enjoy. That though I may be tired at the end of the day,I
> really feel very energized, not drained. >>I agree. With the "out there" traditional goals and lives, parents can't
possibly feel successful at the end of the day because their children are STILL
in school, they're STILL not to retirement age. Those goals are so far away
and only little baby steps (and steps back) to show for them.
But when I'm with my kids in a live-in-the-moment way, my "goals" are met by
the hour or by the second. I succeed over and over every day. Some days I go
to sleep so peacefully satisfied that if the morning didn't come I would feel
successful.
Last night I had an IM exchange with a friend from long ago, who was in LLL
and the babysitting co-op with me. She divorced and is raising her only
child, a 13 year old boy now, alone, in a state around where Shyrley is, and so lay
THAT set of other social expectations over it. She's not in New Mexico
anymore, but she was never from here. She's was a city girl, and Jewish
intellectual girl, but who had neglectful and inexplicably mean parents.
She's definitely not homeschooling, but she still looks to me, with my
slightly older boys whom she knew when they were little, and she asks advice.
Last night it started about what I do when I have the urge to throttle my
boys.
I said I talk to them, though the urge rarely comes.
You can probably guess how the exchange went. I asked whether the problem
involved his wanting to to do something she wouldn't let him do, and she said OF
COURSE.
From there I knew it could only get sadder.
The impasse involved as much of her neediness as his, but he's 13 and she's
40ish.
Her day did not end well at all, and her Today might be going better, I hope,
but that scar will never totally disappear, from things that were done and
said between them yesterday.
While I was exchanging instant message with her, my boys who have pretty much
the freedom of the city were: Kirby in the library playing a game with Joey,
a homeschooler who kinda lives at our house much of the time; Marty sitting
next to me, playing a rented playstation game intently; Holly in and out of
Kirby's room (where I was on the computer) showing us things she was making and
doing and telling us stories about her long day away at three different
activities.
I went to sleep feeling successful.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/03 6:07:52 AM, CelticFrau@... writes:
<< There's also another explaination. I've known childless couples that
CAN'T
have children, have tried for years, and are so deep in the moors of
deppression that being around a happy, childfilled family is too painful for
them.
Haven't run across people like this very often, but it does happen.
have made fantastic parents, but the female partner (they're still not married,
but have been together for 30 years) got a pituitary tumor, and the meds they
gave her to keep it from growing would have messed up a fetus, and if she went
off it, in nine months it could take her out, so once when she was accidently
pregnant she had an abortion. The choice was to have the baby and leave
Steve and the baby, if it lived, alone without her.
So I avoid telling her any happy stories about my children.
She was the maid of honor at my wedding. When we started having kids was
about when she learned she couldn't.
Sandra
<< There's also another explaination. I've known childless couples that
CAN'T
have children, have tried for years, and are so deep in the moors of
deppression that being around a happy, childfilled family is too painful for
them.
Haven't run across people like this very often, but it does happen.
>>One of our childless couples was that way. They wanted children and would
have made fantastic parents, but the female partner (they're still not married,
but have been together for 30 years) got a pituitary tumor, and the meds they
gave her to keep it from growing would have messed up a fetus, and if she went
off it, in nine months it could take her out, so once when she was accidently
pregnant she had an abortion. The choice was to have the baby and leave
Steve and the baby, if it lived, alone without her.
So I avoid telling her any happy stories about my children.
She was the maid of honor at my wedding. When we started having kids was
about when she learned she couldn't.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/03 8:51:17 AM, julie@... writes:
<< I was at a picnic for Jacob's (11) baseball team the other night.
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. >>
It pervades all conversation.
That sounds like the stuff Keith was reporting that the other engineers were
saying about their own teens, while Keith's stories were positive and so
either ignored or made light of (like someone saying, "Yeah, we all had summer jobs
too" when Keith mentioned Kirby's job, which is NOT "a summer job").
Sandra
<< I was at a picnic for Jacob's (11) baseball team the other night.
Every parent I spoke with said something unkind about his or her
child in the presence of either that child or other children and
parents. I was dumbstruck. >>
It pervades all conversation.
That sounds like the stuff Keith was reporting that the other engineers were
saying about their own teens, while Keith's stories were positive and so
either ignored or made light of (like someone saying, "Yeah, we all had summer jobs
too" when Keith mentioned Kirby's job, which is NOT "a summer job").
Sandra
Betsy
**And often what parents are saying to each other doesn't even involve
their individual children. It's just that "MY aren't we put-upon,"
attitude with "YOU know how kids are," and they want all the rest to
agree tacitly or by nodding and muttering that kids are awful.**
Does anyone remember who is the author from Ancient Greece of a passage
complaining about teenagers that sounds very contemporary?
Betsy
their individual children. It's just that "MY aren't we put-upon,"
attitude with "YOU know how kids are," and they want all the rest to
agree tacitly or by nodding and muttering that kids are awful.**
Does anyone remember who is the author from Ancient Greece of a passage
complaining about teenagers that sounds very contemporary?
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/07/2003 11:35:51 Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
leaving my 22mos old and 7.5yrold at my mom's apt. for the 3rd time ever, and it
was glorious and we had a great time, and we talked the whole time about our
children and loved every minute of it.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> It's nice, but weLOL!!Maureen and I had tea today at a favorite bookstore/cafe , with me
> invariably talk about our kids!
>
>
leaving my 22mos old and 7.5yrold at my mom's apt. for the 3rd time ever, and it
was glorious and we had a great time, and we talked the whole time about our
children and loved every minute of it.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Annette
Thanks to everyone for their input on this topic. Thanks Sandra for your
thorough and patient response. Annette
thorough and patient response. Annette