Re: This weekend, Slavery
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/28/2003 5:43:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
speak. Obviously his aim is toward making public schools better for kids, and
more equitable for children of color and poverty, but he was amazing, talking
about the abuse of the current trend toward holding children who have never
had any of the support they need at all "accountable to standards."
Brilliant, warm speaker.
glut of people, people are more valuable, according to the speaker, Kevin Bales,
who is considered a foremost expert on contemporary slavery.
The way they define slavery is someone who is:
Controlled by violence or the threat of violence,
Forced to work for no pay,
having their labor used for the economic gain of another.
There are several ways people typically beome slaves:
Extremely impoverished people, often living in shantytowns surrounding
cities, are lured with the promise of work, brought far from their families, beaten
and threatened with guns/death, and forced to work;
Women and children are often stolen and beaten and used in the sex trade or
as domestics, or both;
Or sometimes they are Debt Slaves, often held (again with violence) for
generations-old debts by a relation.
In most of the countries where this happens, there ARE laws against it, but
often a corrupt government, especially police.
In the US it is most usually trafficking in people, most often by people in
power of the person's own race, and used as domestics, for child care, and
sexually.
In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make very
little.
He said that there are some major differences in slavery between now and the
1800's. Then, in the US, a healthy 19 year old male agricultural slave cost
the equivelant of $38,500 in today's currency. Today the same slave would cost
$90.
Then, ownership was stressed and slaves were maintained (because they were
valuable). Now, they are just usually used up, then killed, or more common,
just sent away.
Julian asked for Bales' book, Disposable People: New Slavery in the Global
Economy, and has started reading it.
They have a good web site: <A HREF="http://www.freetheslaves.net/">http://www.freetheslaves.net/</A>
And here are more details on the stats and stuff: <A HREF="http://www.freetheslaves.net/modern_slavery.html">
http://www.freetheslaves.net/modern_slavery.html</A>
Kathryn, who is very, very tired
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> <<It's also soYep, definitely very cool. The highlight yesterday was hearing Jonathan Kozol
> cool that in one weekend Julian will hear people like Tom Hayden, Julian
> Bond, Frances Moore Lappe, etc. speak.>>
>
> VERY cool!
>
speak. Obviously his aim is toward making public schools better for kids, and
more equitable for children of color and poverty, but he was amazing, talking
about the abuse of the current trend toward holding children who have never
had any of the support they need at all "accountable to standards."
Brilliant, warm speaker.
> <<the first was on modern slavery (there are moreBoth! Absolute numbers is the important aspect though, because without a
> slaves in the world today than any time in history, including many in the
> US) >>
>
> Absolute numbers, or proportionally?
>
> With six billion people there are more of EVERYTHING people-wise, I'm
> guessing.
> Anyone know when it was three billion and when we're expecting seven
> billion?
>
> If it's a proportional thing, I'm guessing the definition of slavery has
> been
> amended to "can't afford to move away" (land-serfs >>factory serfs?).
>
>
> Sandra
>
glut of people, people are more valuable, according to the speaker, Kevin Bales,
who is considered a foremost expert on contemporary slavery.
The way they define slavery is someone who is:
Controlled by violence or the threat of violence,
Forced to work for no pay,
having their labor used for the economic gain of another.
There are several ways people typically beome slaves:
Extremely impoverished people, often living in shantytowns surrounding
cities, are lured with the promise of work, brought far from their families, beaten
and threatened with guns/death, and forced to work;
Women and children are often stolen and beaten and used in the sex trade or
as domestics, or both;
Or sometimes they are Debt Slaves, often held (again with violence) for
generations-old debts by a relation.
In most of the countries where this happens, there ARE laws against it, but
often a corrupt government, especially police.
In the US it is most usually trafficking in people, most often by people in
power of the person's own race, and used as domestics, for child care, and
sexually.
In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make very
little.
He said that there are some major differences in slavery between now and the
1800's. Then, in the US, a healthy 19 year old male agricultural slave cost
the equivelant of $38,500 in today's currency. Today the same slave would cost
$90.
Then, ownership was stressed and slaves were maintained (because they were
valuable). Now, they are just usually used up, then killed, or more common,
just sent away.
Julian asked for Bales' book, Disposable People: New Slavery in the Global
Economy, and has started reading it.
They have a good web site: <A HREF="http://www.freetheslaves.net/">http://www.freetheslaves.net/</A>
And here are more details on the stats and stuff: <A HREF="http://www.freetheslaves.net/modern_slavery.html">
http://www.freetheslaves.net/modern_slavery.html</A>
Kathryn, who is very, very tired
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:08:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> The way they define slavery is someone who is:Practically every child in public school would fall into THAT category!
> Controlled by violence or the threat of violence,
> Forced to work for no pay,
> having their labor used for the economic gain of another.
>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/03 7:33:57 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< > Forced to work for no pay,
Except that they do no real work. There is no product of their labor. They
"work" at writing on cheap paper, and most of it goes straight into the trash.
:-/
Sandra
<< > Forced to work for no pay,
> having their labor used for the economic gain of another.Practically every child in public school would fall into THAT category! >>
>
Except that they do no real work. There is no product of their labor. They
"work" at writing on cheap paper, and most of it goes straight into the trash.
:-/
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/03 7:08:33 AM, KathrynJB@... writes:
<< In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make very
little.
labor unions, when a family could live in debt the whole time because of
charging things at the store and ending up with NO cash but in debt after the last
paycheck.
Sandra
<< In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make very
little.
>>I was wondering whether the coal miners would have fit the definition, before
labor unions, when a family could live in debt the whole time because of
charging things at the store and ending up with NO cash but in debt after the last
paycheck.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/03 7:58:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I had a discussion about this very thing. Last nite we watched Gangs of New
York on DVD and although I fell asleep, DH watched the entire thing. When I woke
up I asked if he'd made it through and he said, yes, most definately and to
make sure I finished it today while he and the twins were gone. He was suprised
at just how the Irish imigrants were treated by not only this country, but by
one another in the mid 1800's to 1900's. Which then developed into a rather
lengthy discussion on my grandparents and their families imigration from
Ireland.
My great-grandfather was a West Virgina coal miner. He was very much in debt
by the slave like bartering system used then. He passed away of black lung
when my grandfather was only 8. My grandfather had to quit school from that day
forward and along with his 5 brothers, they had to dig their fathers grave and
bury him. He began working the next day. He also began smoking and drinking,
both of which were completely acceptable culturally. The Frank McCourt book,
Angela's Ashes, was in such parallel to my papa's childhood, my mother could not
get past the first chapter. Wow, I'm going way off on a personal tangent now,
but I also wanted to mention that I lost another great-grandfather to black
lung, but in the mines of Arizona. I'm not sure if it was geographical
difference, socio-economics, cultural attitudes or simply better personal finances,
because my Mexican great-grandfather was not in debted to his employer, nor
anyone else and his family was able to move to Los Angeles upon his demise.
So much to look up even when it's only about one's own family history, but
somehow, IMHO never as tiring as research on stuff I don't want to know.
Unschooling at it's finest.
Rhonda - the Irish-Mexican (my maiden name was Gutierrez - Rhonda Gutierrez,
try explaining that when your 5 LOL)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make veryGood point Sandra. Too funny though, because first thing this morning DH and
> little.
> >>
>
> I was wondering whether the coal miners would have fit the definition,
> before
> labor unions, when a family could live in debt the whole time because of
> charging things at the store and ending up with NO cash but in debt after
> the last
> paycheck.
>
> Sandra
>
I had a discussion about this very thing. Last nite we watched Gangs of New
York on DVD and although I fell asleep, DH watched the entire thing. When I woke
up I asked if he'd made it through and he said, yes, most definately and to
make sure I finished it today while he and the twins were gone. He was suprised
at just how the Irish imigrants were treated by not only this country, but by
one another in the mid 1800's to 1900's. Which then developed into a rather
lengthy discussion on my grandparents and their families imigration from
Ireland.
My great-grandfather was a West Virgina coal miner. He was very much in debt
by the slave like bartering system used then. He passed away of black lung
when my grandfather was only 8. My grandfather had to quit school from that day
forward and along with his 5 brothers, they had to dig their fathers grave and
bury him. He began working the next day. He also began smoking and drinking,
both of which were completely acceptable culturally. The Frank McCourt book,
Angela's Ashes, was in such parallel to my papa's childhood, my mother could not
get past the first chapter. Wow, I'm going way off on a personal tangent now,
but I also wanted to mention that I lost another great-grandfather to black
lung, but in the mines of Arizona. I'm not sure if it was geographical
difference, socio-economics, cultural attitudes or simply better personal finances,
because my Mexican great-grandfather was not in debted to his employer, nor
anyone else and his family was able to move to Los Angeles upon his demise.
So much to look up even when it's only about one's own family history, but
somehow, IMHO never as tiring as research on stuff I don't want to know.
Unschooling at it's finest.
Rhonda - the Irish-Mexican (my maiden name was Gutierrez - Rhonda Gutierrez,
try explaining that when your 5 LOL)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
The BC North Coast (Prince Rupert area) canneries used this company store "technique" on the immigrant workers (mostly Chinese). Working long days to end up in debt. :O((
> I was wondering whether the coal miners would have fit the definition,
> before
> labor unions, when a family could live in debt the whole time because of
> charging things at the store and ending up with NO cash but in debt after
> the last
> paycheck.
>
> Sandra
coyote's corner
Enforced poverty is also a form of slavery.
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: This weekend, Slavery
In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:08:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
> The way they define slavery is someone who is:
> Controlled by violence or the threat of violence,
> Forced to work for no pay,
> having their labor used for the economic gain of another.
>
Practically every child in public school would fall into THAT category!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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coyote's corner
Rhonda,
This is so fascinating! Thanks for this. There are so many - of all races that have died for 'the good life'.
Janis
This is so fascinating! Thanks for this. There are so many - of all races that have died for 'the good life'.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: RJHill241@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: This weekend, Slavery
In a message dated 6/29/03 7:58:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<In the numbers, they do not count even sweatshops where people make very
> little.
> >>
>
> I was wondering whether the coal miners would have fit the definition,
> before
> labor unions, when a family could live in debt the whole time because of
> charging things at the store and ending up with NO cash but in debt after
> the last
> paycheck.
>
> Sandra
>
Good point Sandra. Too funny though, because first thing this morning DH and
I had a discussion about this very thing. Last nite we watched Gangs of New
York on DVD and although I fell asleep, DH watched the entire thing. When I woke
up I asked if he'd made it through and he said, yes, most definately and to
make sure I finished it today while he and the twins were gone. He was suprised
at just how the Irish imigrants were treated by not only this country, but by
one another in the mid 1800's to 1900's. Which then developed into a rather
lengthy discussion on my grandparents and their families imigration from
Ireland.
My great-grandfather was a West Virgina coal miner. He was very much in debt
by the slave like bartering system used then. He passed away of black lung
when my grandfather was only 8. My grandfather had to quit school from that day
forward and along with his 5 brothers, they had to dig their fathers grave and
bury him. He began working the next day. He also began smoking and drinking,
both of which were completely acceptable culturally. The Frank McCourt book,
Angela's Ashes, was in such parallel to my papa's childhood, my mother could not
get past the first chapter. Wow, I'm going way off on a personal tangent now,
but I also wanted to mention that I lost another great-grandfather to black
lung, but in the mines of Arizona. I'm not sure if it was geographical
difference, socio-economics, cultural attitudes or simply better personal finances,
because my Mexican great-grandfather was not in debted to his employer, nor
anyone else and his family was able to move to Los Angeles upon his demise.
So much to look up even when it's only about one's own family history, but
somehow, IMHO never as tiring as research on stuff I don't want to know.
Unschooling at it's finest.
Rhonda - the Irish-Mexican (my maiden name was Gutierrez - Rhonda Gutierrez,
try explaining that when your 5 LOL)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]