New unschooling lists; why I'll choose this one
glad2bmadly
I am a relatively new member here. I started reading about two months ago. If there had been an "Unschoolers who believe in food restrictions" option, or an "Unschoolers who use positive discipline" or "Theatre people who unschool" option, or "Unschoolers from Atlanta" option I would have never come here!! And I may never have felt myself actually changing the way in which I view my responsibilities as a parent. I came here for support in unschooling and found out I hadn't even understood how much more this could encompass than just education. I, too, feel the categories of life (as I had perceived them) shifting daily as I watch my kids living and learning.
As easy and comforting as it can be to sit around and chat with utterly like-minded, like-categoried folk, it is the people in any community who challenge me and keep me honest who keep me in the community. Who knew that a community of people in cyberspace could have more inpact on my parenting than my immediate family community? I am letting go of so many supposed convictions, ... well, at least realizing that they are beliefs and that they can be held upside down for a while to lose some dust.
If one's beliefs and convictions aren't challenged then how does one know if they are real? I am afraid that a kinder and gentler or other option would mean that someone else who is new to this and looking for real answers wouldn't stay on the challenging list long enough to "get it" if there were too many other options. I have to say that if I hadn't been instructed to just lurk here for a few weeks, and had another easy option next door I don't think I would have come close to getting it.
-Madeline
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As easy and comforting as it can be to sit around and chat with utterly like-minded, like-categoried folk, it is the people in any community who challenge me and keep me honest who keep me in the community. Who knew that a community of people in cyberspace could have more inpact on my parenting than my immediate family community? I am letting go of so many supposed convictions, ... well, at least realizing that they are beliefs and that they can be held upside down for a while to lose some dust.
If one's beliefs and convictions aren't challenged then how does one know if they are real? I am afraid that a kinder and gentler or other option would mean that someone else who is new to this and looking for real answers wouldn't stay on the challenging list long enough to "get it" if there were too many other options. I have to say that if I hadn't been instructed to just lurk here for a few weeks, and had another easy option next door I don't think I would have come close to getting it.
-Madeline
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In a message dated 6/26/03 10:35:27 PM, glad2bmadly@... writes:
<< As easy and comforting as it can be to sit around and chat with utterly
like-minded, like-categoried folk, it is the people in any community who
challenge me and keep me honest who keep me in the community. Who knew that a
community of people in cyberspace could have more inpact on my parenting than my
immediate family community? I am letting go of so many supposed convictions,
... well, at least realizing that they are beliefs and that they can be held
upside down for a while to lose some dust.
anything good (worthy) to say. But I wanted to pass on that some time back an
old-time homeschooler who has also done years of online helping was joking with me
about what some people seem to want, and we came up with an
automatic-response list idea! A person could go to a webpage (or it could be a list) and write
as much or as little as they want about their concerns about homeschooling,
and they would get a response. Randomized maybe, or geared to key phrases they
might have used. And the responses could be things like
* Your kids are *so* lucky to have you as a mother!
* You know your kids better than anyone; just do what you think is right!
* Homeschooling's never the same for any two families, so don't worry about
whether yours is "normal."
* Whatever works for your family is good. (that one was just added to my
list this week)
* What you do isn't important, it's that you love your children and want the
best for them.
* Children are very forgiving. I'm sure they'll understand when they're
grown why you had to do what you did.
While there's truth in all those statements in some situations (and maybe
most) and while a full range of all kinds of parenting is justifiable within
various frameworks, I still don't think automated feedback is really what people
need to get them from a lifetime of conditioning about the importance of books
and courses and scores to Just LIVING and learning.
And just living in the midst of the continuuing belief that each child NEEDS
eventually to be able to outline a chapter from a history textbook and to
balance equations before he's fourteen isn't the kind of living that experienced
unschoolers have been talking about since before I came along. They've been
talking about things to do, places to go, interesting people and hobbies and
fascinations.
It can't be described easily and simply. It can't be understood without a
family trying it and tweaking it. But as with many things, the understanding
often comes almost suddenly at some point, when people GET it, really, at a gut
level, and begin to trust it.
I'm glad two LLL leaders named Lori and Carol were willing to let me hang out
in their houses and they answered my questions and told me stories and made
suggestions I could use about how to have a warmer relationship with my own
kids. Not everyone is lucky enough to have two big unschooling families so near.
But this list can be even better than that, for people who want the ideas.
Sandra
<< As easy and comforting as it can be to sit around and chat with utterly
like-minded, like-categoried folk, it is the people in any community who
challenge me and keep me honest who keep me in the community. Who knew that a
community of people in cyberspace could have more inpact on my parenting than my
immediate family community? I am letting go of so many supposed convictions,
... well, at least realizing that they are beliefs and that they can be held
upside down for a while to lose some dust.
>>Madeline, I liked your post about this list, and just couldn't think of
anything good (worthy) to say. But I wanted to pass on that some time back an
old-time homeschooler who has also done years of online helping was joking with me
about what some people seem to want, and we came up with an
automatic-response list idea! A person could go to a webpage (or it could be a list) and write
as much or as little as they want about their concerns about homeschooling,
and they would get a response. Randomized maybe, or geared to key phrases they
might have used. And the responses could be things like
* Your kids are *so* lucky to have you as a mother!
* You know your kids better than anyone; just do what you think is right!
* Homeschooling's never the same for any two families, so don't worry about
whether yours is "normal."
* Whatever works for your family is good. (that one was just added to my
list this week)
* What you do isn't important, it's that you love your children and want the
best for them.
* Children are very forgiving. I'm sure they'll understand when they're
grown why you had to do what you did.
While there's truth in all those statements in some situations (and maybe
most) and while a full range of all kinds of parenting is justifiable within
various frameworks, I still don't think automated feedback is really what people
need to get them from a lifetime of conditioning about the importance of books
and courses and scores to Just LIVING and learning.
And just living in the midst of the continuuing belief that each child NEEDS
eventually to be able to outline a chapter from a history textbook and to
balance equations before he's fourteen isn't the kind of living that experienced
unschoolers have been talking about since before I came along. They've been
talking about things to do, places to go, interesting people and hobbies and
fascinations.
It can't be described easily and simply. It can't be understood without a
family trying it and tweaking it. But as with many things, the understanding
often comes almost suddenly at some point, when people GET it, really, at a gut
level, and begin to trust it.
I'm glad two LLL leaders named Lori and Carol were willing to let me hang out
in their houses and they answered my questions and told me stories and made
suggestions I could use about how to have a warmer relationship with my own
kids. Not everyone is lucky enough to have two big unschooling families so near.
But this list can be even better than that, for people who want the ideas.
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 6/27/03 12:33 AM, glad2bmadly at glad2bmadly@... wrote:
When I first started exploring homeschooling, I wanted Calvert. The idea of
everything you need to know arriving in one box appealed to the engineer in
me ;-). The unschoolers sounded too lacksadaisical but I stuck with reading
what they (and everyone else) wrote. Eventually it sank in that the
unschoolers were having fun while everyone else was dealing with how to make
kids work or finding better products the kids would want to do.
I think one of the problems with this list is that since it's the one and
only list that Unschooling.com provides, it gives the impression it provides
everything to everyone. And I think the list often gets dragged down into
rancourousness because people want something from the list that it isn't
providing and so they get angry, trying to get the list to provide what they
need.
But I think if people can get their unschooling support and conversation and
whatever else needs met elsewhere, then this list won't get dragged down by
people fighting for what they want the list to be. The discussion will be
able to stick to discussion. And I think, as I did with unschooling
information when I wanted formal schooling information, people will be able
to tune in out of curiosity. And if something sounds goofy to them, they'll
be able to read without feeling they need to fight against it to get what
they need the list to be. And that will give time for the new ideas to
slowly seep in. As they did with me who thought she wanted formal schooling.
Forcing information on people doesn't work well in school and it's caused
problems on the list too. But if there are more lists to choose from, people
won't be so dependent on this list and they'll allow it to be what it is.
I hope people will use the conversational list so it can provide the
connetion with other unschoolers that many people need. (I suspect all the
lists will be slow to begin with since even this list has slowed way down,
perhaps with people off on vacation or just out enjoying the nice weather.
:-)
Well it sounds good in theory, anyway! ;-)
Joyce
> I am afraid that a kinder and gentler or other option would mean that someoneI liked your post Madeline!
> else who is new to this and looking for real answers wouldn't stay on the
> challenging list long enough to "get it" if there were too many other options.
> I have to say that if I hadn't been instructed to just lurk here for a few
> weeks, and had another easy option next door I don't think I would have come
> close to getting it.
When I first started exploring homeschooling, I wanted Calvert. The idea of
everything you need to know arriving in one box appealed to the engineer in
me ;-). The unschoolers sounded too lacksadaisical but I stuck with reading
what they (and everyone else) wrote. Eventually it sank in that the
unschoolers were having fun while everyone else was dealing with how to make
kids work or finding better products the kids would want to do.
I think one of the problems with this list is that since it's the one and
only list that Unschooling.com provides, it gives the impression it provides
everything to everyone. And I think the list often gets dragged down into
rancourousness because people want something from the list that it isn't
providing and so they get angry, trying to get the list to provide what they
need.
But I think if people can get their unschooling support and conversation and
whatever else needs met elsewhere, then this list won't get dragged down by
people fighting for what they want the list to be. The discussion will be
able to stick to discussion. And I think, as I did with unschooling
information when I wanted formal schooling information, people will be able
to tune in out of curiosity. And if something sounds goofy to them, they'll
be able to read without feeling they need to fight against it to get what
they need the list to be. And that will give time for the new ideas to
slowly seep in. As they did with me who thought she wanted formal schooling.
Forcing information on people doesn't work well in school and it's caused
problems on the list too. But if there are more lists to choose from, people
won't be so dependent on this list and they'll allow it to be what it is.
I hope people will use the conversational list so it can provide the
connetion with other unschoolers that many people need. (I suspect all the
lists will be slow to begin with since even this list has slowed way down,
perhaps with people off on vacation or just out enjoying the nice weather.
:-)
Well it sounds good in theory, anyway! ;-)
Joyce
glad2bmadly
Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
****I think one of the problems with this list is that since it's the one and
only list that Unschooling.com provides, it gives the impression it provides
everything to everyone. And I think the list often gets dragged down into
rancourousness because people want something from the list that it isn't
providing and so they get angry, trying to get the list to provide what they
need.
But I think if people can get their unschooling support and conversation and
whatever else needs met elsewhere, then this list won't get dragged down by
people fighting for what they want the list to be. The discussion will be
able to stick to discussion. And I think, as I did with unschooling
information when I wanted formal schooling information, people will be able
to tune in out of curiosity. And if something sounds goofy to them, they'll
be able to read without feeling they need to fight against it to get what
they need the list to be. And that will give time for the new ideas to
slowly seep in. As they did with me who thought she wanted formal schooling.
...
Well it sounds good in theory, anyway! ;-)
Joyce*****
That was very clear and makes a lot of sense to me.
Madeline
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****I think one of the problems with this list is that since it's the one and
only list that Unschooling.com provides, it gives the impression it provides
everything to everyone. And I think the list often gets dragged down into
rancourousness because people want something from the list that it isn't
providing and so they get angry, trying to get the list to provide what they
need.
But I think if people can get their unschooling support and conversation and
whatever else needs met elsewhere, then this list won't get dragged down by
people fighting for what they want the list to be. The discussion will be
able to stick to discussion. And I think, as I did with unschooling
information when I wanted formal schooling information, people will be able
to tune in out of curiosity. And if something sounds goofy to them, they'll
be able to read without feeling they need to fight against it to get what
they need the list to be. And that will give time for the new ideas to
slowly seep in. As they did with me who thought she wanted formal schooling.
...
Well it sounds good in theory, anyway! ;-)
Joyce*****
That was very clear and makes a lot of sense to me.
Madeline
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]