thumb sucking/nursing
gruvystarchild
"I disagree and so do a lot of experts on long term breastfeeding
and
natural weaning. I don't think any child who nurses less than about
2
1/2 years naturally weans. Instead, the weaning involves a bunch of
factors, including mom working, the use of artificial nipples
(bottles
and/or pacifiers), people in the family saying the child is "too
old",
etc. '
While I totally agree that toddlers nursing is natural and
desirable, I also believe that some will wean before 2.5 quite
happily on their own.
Out of four children, one weaned at 19 months and one at 2 y.o.
without anything but on demand feedings from birth.
With Jared (weaned at 19mos) I often wonder if I inadvertantly
sent "weaning messages" to him. I wasn't quite as aware then, but
with Sierra (weaned at 2) I was all too aware and she still weaned
herself. It was NOT a sudden thing (I would assume that is a nursing
strike), it was a slow and steady lessening of feedings and finally
only nursing morning and night.
She truly weaned herself, of that I have no doubt. Jared I'm not
totally positive about, poor Trevor had weaning forced on him and
dear Jalen is nursing like mad at 2.5 y.o.!! I don't think he'll
ever lose interest.
I love nursing long term, but I sure would love to sleep all night.
ugh. He's very needy and intense, but oh-so-sweet.
I do think it's perfectly natural for some children to wean before
2.5, but I imagine the messages sent to most mothers and children
make weaning happen before it would naturally, if we lived in a
society that wasn't so hung up on boobs.
Speaking of boobs, can you even imagine pumping milk from a cow to
bottle feed her baby!!! Sheesh. What IS the hang up with breasts in
this country?
and
natural weaning. I don't think any child who nurses less than about
2
1/2 years naturally weans. Instead, the weaning involves a bunch of
factors, including mom working, the use of artificial nipples
(bottles
and/or pacifiers), people in the family saying the child is "too
old",
etc. '
While I totally agree that toddlers nursing is natural and
desirable, I also believe that some will wean before 2.5 quite
happily on their own.
Out of four children, one weaned at 19 months and one at 2 y.o.
without anything but on demand feedings from birth.
With Jared (weaned at 19mos) I often wonder if I inadvertantly
sent "weaning messages" to him. I wasn't quite as aware then, but
with Sierra (weaned at 2) I was all too aware and she still weaned
herself. It was NOT a sudden thing (I would assume that is a nursing
strike), it was a slow and steady lessening of feedings and finally
only nursing morning and night.
She truly weaned herself, of that I have no doubt. Jared I'm not
totally positive about, poor Trevor had weaning forced on him and
dear Jalen is nursing like mad at 2.5 y.o.!! I don't think he'll
ever lose interest.
I love nursing long term, but I sure would love to sleep all night.
ugh. He's very needy and intense, but oh-so-sweet.
I do think it's perfectly natural for some children to wean before
2.5, but I imagine the messages sent to most mothers and children
make weaning happen before it would naturally, if we lived in a
society that wasn't so hung up on boobs.
Speaking of boobs, can you even imagine pumping milk from a cow to
bottle feed her baby!!! Sheesh. What IS the hang up with breasts in
this country?
Joylyn
gruvystarchild wrote:
weaning happens before humans would naturally wean. Society factors
into our lives in so many ways, and I think sometimes unless we make a
huge effort to be aware of how it does effect us we really can't on a
conscious level go against it. Children who are toddlers are supposed
to act a certain way, be independent, etc. Even the way we nurse
newborns in this society is different then how people nurse newborns in
other societies. In our society we are taught that babies should nurse
10-15 minutes on each side every 2-3 hours (IF they are lucky and dont'
follow horrible advice to feed less or on a strict schedule.) In other
societies where mommies hold babies all the time, the baby will nurse
1-2 minutes every 5 minutes. Constantly. Around the clock. The mother
does not put the baby down. If mother needs to do something, the baby
is in the sling right next to her. Mothers don't worry about having a
few minutes to take a shower or cook dinner (most societies have
prohibitions against moms doing any chores or cooking in the first month
or two anyway, mom simply takes care of her personal needs and gets to
know her baby and nurses). Our society wants our babies to sleep
through the night and even if a mother is aware that sleeping through
the night is not biologically good for the newborn, or even the older
baby, there is still the pressure as people say "so how's the baby
sleeping?" Many new parents have rooms for their babies (even if they
end up sleeping with their child and not using the crib). In some
cultures the idea that a mother would sleep in a different room or even
a few feet away from their baby, and that men find breasts sexy--those
ideas are foreign and laughable. Some sociologists showed video clips
of women from the US taking care of their babies to women who were still
basically hunters and gatherers and the mothers were appalled at how
the US mothers seemed to ignore the baby's cries and needs. Even for
those of us who go against our society by unschooling our children or
nursing past a year are, cannot help but be, influenced by society.
Toddlers in the US are busy people. I'm often amazed at how busy. If
there are older siblings they are even more busy. There are various
classes, gymnastics, swimming, etc. Babies and toddlers take mommy and
me swimming, gymnastics, etc. classes, and go to play groups, etc. I
used to think, right before a vacation--great, we can spend lots of
quality time together, Janene (or Lexie) can nurse more. But the
reality of the vacation was that we were so busy doing fun things, as a
family, that there didn't seem to be enough time to sit and cuddle and
nurse. Even at night, it seemed we nursed less because we were so busy
and she was so tired that sleep came easily and quickly. I think we can
get caught up in the go go go routine and forget that toddlers
especially need mommy sitting and still to cuzzle (our word for
nursing). That is why I think often our children wean earlier--our
lives are busy. This is not necessarily a bad thing--nursing for 18
months, or two years is great in our society and while I do consider it
premature weaning, I also think it's a great thing, to have nursed that
long and provided milk and comfort to a child for that length of time.
I also think there are times when it is OK for a mom to encourage
breastfeeding to continue. I lost a baby while Lexie was still nursing,
and I encouraged her to continue nursing after that loss. She might
have weaned during Janene's pregnancy, but I realized that if I had also
lost Janene, it would have been even harder if Lexie had been weaned, so
I continued to encourage her to nurse, and with the promise of milk when
the baby was born, she was willing to nurse enough to keep up the skill
until Janene was born. Then she was THRILLED with the wonderful new
milk supply and kept up for that reason!
One more thing, on Tandem nursing. I did tandem nurse, and I've given
talks on the subject, but I do not think it is normal for our species to
tandem nurse. Our bodies are not made to nurse two children who are of
two different ages (it is normal to nurse twins or triplets). The
normal way of things, biologically, is for moms to not ovulate until a
nursing baby is a year or so old (14 months is the average). This
naturally spaces babies out. Historically (or should I say
pre-historically) if a mom got pregnant while she still had a young baby
or toddler, she would not continue the pregnancy. In others, the
toddler would be weaned. It makes sense that if food is not plentiful
to take care of the baby which is alive first. But in our society, food
is plentiful. So we tandem nurse. I don't think there is anything
wrong with it, I just don't think it's our biological norm. That said,
I wouldn't do anything different. It was good to tandem, good for me
and my daughters. I am sad I am no longer lactating.
One last thing... I have spoken to many many women about breastfeeding.
I have never heard a woman say they wish they would have weaned their
child earlier. I have heard many women say that they wish they nursed
longer, especially those whose children nursed two or fewer years. As
someone used to say--things that make you go hmmmm.
A great book to read on this subject is our babies ourselves. Meridith
Small I think. Excellent book.
Joylyn
Joylyn
> "I disagree and so do a lot of experts on long term breastfeedingI should have probably put in Social Factors in the list of why I think
> and
> natural weaning. I don't think any child who nurses less than about
> 2
> 1/2 years naturally weans. Instead, the weaning involves a bunch of
> factors, including mom working, the use of artificial nipples
> (bottles
> and/or pacifiers), people in the family saying the child is "too
> old",
> etc. '
weaning happens before humans would naturally wean. Society factors
into our lives in so many ways, and I think sometimes unless we make a
huge effort to be aware of how it does effect us we really can't on a
conscious level go against it. Children who are toddlers are supposed
to act a certain way, be independent, etc. Even the way we nurse
newborns in this society is different then how people nurse newborns in
other societies. In our society we are taught that babies should nurse
10-15 minutes on each side every 2-3 hours (IF they are lucky and dont'
follow horrible advice to feed less or on a strict schedule.) In other
societies where mommies hold babies all the time, the baby will nurse
1-2 minutes every 5 minutes. Constantly. Around the clock. The mother
does not put the baby down. If mother needs to do something, the baby
is in the sling right next to her. Mothers don't worry about having a
few minutes to take a shower or cook dinner (most societies have
prohibitions against moms doing any chores or cooking in the first month
or two anyway, mom simply takes care of her personal needs and gets to
know her baby and nurses). Our society wants our babies to sleep
through the night and even if a mother is aware that sleeping through
the night is not biologically good for the newborn, or even the older
baby, there is still the pressure as people say "so how's the baby
sleeping?" Many new parents have rooms for their babies (even if they
end up sleeping with their child and not using the crib). In some
cultures the idea that a mother would sleep in a different room or even
a few feet away from their baby, and that men find breasts sexy--those
ideas are foreign and laughable. Some sociologists showed video clips
of women from the US taking care of their babies to women who were still
basically hunters and gatherers and the mothers were appalled at how
the US mothers seemed to ignore the baby's cries and needs. Even for
those of us who go against our society by unschooling our children or
nursing past a year are, cannot help but be, influenced by society.
Toddlers in the US are busy people. I'm often amazed at how busy. If
there are older siblings they are even more busy. There are various
classes, gymnastics, swimming, etc. Babies and toddlers take mommy and
me swimming, gymnastics, etc. classes, and go to play groups, etc. I
used to think, right before a vacation--great, we can spend lots of
quality time together, Janene (or Lexie) can nurse more. But the
reality of the vacation was that we were so busy doing fun things, as a
family, that there didn't seem to be enough time to sit and cuddle and
nurse. Even at night, it seemed we nursed less because we were so busy
and she was so tired that sleep came easily and quickly. I think we can
get caught up in the go go go routine and forget that toddlers
especially need mommy sitting and still to cuzzle (our word for
nursing). That is why I think often our children wean earlier--our
lives are busy. This is not necessarily a bad thing--nursing for 18
months, or two years is great in our society and while I do consider it
premature weaning, I also think it's a great thing, to have nursed that
long and provided milk and comfort to a child for that length of time.
I also think there are times when it is OK for a mom to encourage
breastfeeding to continue. I lost a baby while Lexie was still nursing,
and I encouraged her to continue nursing after that loss. She might
have weaned during Janene's pregnancy, but I realized that if I had also
lost Janene, it would have been even harder if Lexie had been weaned, so
I continued to encourage her to nurse, and with the promise of milk when
the baby was born, she was willing to nurse enough to keep up the skill
until Janene was born. Then she was THRILLED with the wonderful new
milk supply and kept up for that reason!
One more thing, on Tandem nursing. I did tandem nurse, and I've given
talks on the subject, but I do not think it is normal for our species to
tandem nurse. Our bodies are not made to nurse two children who are of
two different ages (it is normal to nurse twins or triplets). The
normal way of things, biologically, is for moms to not ovulate until a
nursing baby is a year or so old (14 months is the average). This
naturally spaces babies out. Historically (or should I say
pre-historically) if a mom got pregnant while she still had a young baby
or toddler, she would not continue the pregnancy. In others, the
toddler would be weaned. It makes sense that if food is not plentiful
to take care of the baby which is alive first. But in our society, food
is plentiful. So we tandem nurse. I don't think there is anything
wrong with it, I just don't think it's our biological norm. That said,
I wouldn't do anything different. It was good to tandem, good for me
and my daughters. I am sad I am no longer lactating.
One last thing... I have spoken to many many women about breastfeeding.
I have never heard a woman say they wish they would have weaned their
child earlier. I have heard many women say that they wish they nursed
longer, especially those whose children nursed two or fewer years. As
someone used to say--things that make you go hmmmm.
A great book to read on this subject is our babies ourselves. Meridith
Small I think. Excellent book.
Joylyn
Joylyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/19/2003 11:44:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
joylyn@... writes:
People DO say "I wish I had taken my kids out of school sooner," and then "I
wish I had unschooled sooner," but they don't say "I wish I had stalled just a
FEW more years with structure before I unschooled."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn@... writes:
> I have spoken to many many women about breastfeeding.And it goes again back to the parallel to unschooling.
> I have never heard a woman say they wish they would have weaned their
> child earlier. I have heard many women say that they wish they nursed
> longer, especially those whose children nursed two or fewer years. As
> someone used to say--things that make you go hmmmm.
>
>
People DO say "I wish I had taken my kids out of school sooner," and then "I
wish I had unschooled sooner," but they don't say "I wish I had stalled just a
FEW more years with structure before I unschooled."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/20/2003 12:24:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
won't get the answers you're looking for! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> What IS the hang up with breasts inYou're addressing the wrong crowd here with that question. Mostly women? You
> this country?
>
won't get the answers you're looking for! <G>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]