Betsy

** he's two, but it's been four years straight, tandem nursing a newborn
and a two year old for a whole year..**

Hi, Ang --

I only have one child, but all of my friends who tandem nursed confide
that they found it VERY irritating. (And most of them are retired LLL
leaders who are very enthusiastic about nursing and its benefits.)

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/18/03 2:12:54 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I only have one child, but all of my friends who tandem nursed confide
that they found it VERY irritating. >>

It bothered me, but at the time I was tandem nursing I had friends all around
me (five? six?) who were doing it merrily, with no problems (one show-off had
TWINS as the older kids.

Then a bit later I had one friend who tried it and had the same trouble I did
exactly. I went six months after Marty was born, but it was REALLY really
hard to nurse Kirby. I bought him off with a Ninja Turtle costume when he
turned three. Leonardo. It had a great sword. He still has most of that costume.
Bummer it's three-year-old size.

Sandra

Joylyn

I loved tandem nursing. I found it wonderful. I did not like nursing
the two at the same time, but I did like nursing my younger one and then
nursing my older one. I had fewer problems with engorgement. There are
so many reasons to continue to nurse past 2 years, I can't even name
them all. I think for me, the major surgery Lexie had at age 3, where
she recovered in half the time, and even the doc said it was likely
because she was still nursing and had breastmilk after surgery.
Toddlers and preschoolers who nurse to sleep go to sleep easily. It
reconnected me to my children after a long day. When Janene weaned at
four, I felt it was early weaning, and was sad. When Lexie had surgery
last year, we all realized it was her first surgery without breastmilk
and I actually got some breastmilk from the milk bank to use, but she
didnt' like the taste (it's pasterized, and it wasn't mommy's milk).
There is a lot of stuff out on the web about long term nursing...

Joylyn

Betsy wrote:

>
>
> ** he's two, but it's been four years straight, tandem nursing a newborn
> and a two year old for a whole year..**
>
> Hi, Ang --
>
> I only have one child, but all of my friends who tandem nursed confide
> that they found it VERY irritating. (And most of them are retired LLL
> leaders who are very enthusiastic about nursing and its benefits.)
>
> Betsy
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> ** he's two, but it's been four years straight, tandem nursing a
newborn
> and a two year old for a whole year..**
>
> Hi, Ang --
>
> I only have one child, but all of my friends who tandem nursed
confide
> that they found it VERY irritating. (And most of them are retired
LLL
> leaders who are very enthusiastic about nursing and its benefits.)
>
> Betsy

I didn't find it very irritating. Like Joylyn, I have seen so many
benefits from it that even though there were times when it was
difficult, I have found it overall to be beneficial. As with anything
in life, there have been tough times in our tandem nursing journey,
and times of great joy. It's a relationship, like any other. I'm glad
I didn't leave my husband every time I found him irritating too :-)

Some of the benefits I found in tandeming were that I could get both
of them to sleep at the same time (woohoo! big mommy benefit) and
that often allowed me to take naps when they both were napping. They
recovered more easily from sickness, and neither of them gets sick
very often. When we've gone through serious health problems (my son's
serious allergies at age 4, when there were very few foods he could
eat), the breastfeeding suddenly became hugely important. He was
getting excellent nutrition through breastmilk when he had a very
limited diet, and I was able to comfort him when he was feeling very
sick, covered with hives, etc. Of course, that meant for a long time
that I had to also avoid every food he was allergic too. Ever had a
rice noodle and rice cheese casserole? Blech! I couldn't have
foreseen these upcoming issues when he was 3 and his sister was born,
so I'm very glad that I continued the nursing relationship with him
so that it was available at that time. There were many more emotional
benefits too. Non-existant sibling rivalry when my 2nd was born, and
a very close tie between the two. My son never felt that he was
displaced or denied something that was so important to him because of
his little sister. Now that he's old enough to tell me how important
nursing was to him, I can see how that could've been very hard for
him to deal with if I'd weaned him when she was small.

And FWIW, I haven't found LLL leaders to be the best source of info
and support for nursing older kids. All the leaders I personally know
weaned at 3 or 4. I have yet to meet one who let their child wean
naturally. Some of the ones I know did some pretty egregious things,
IMHO, like promising a 3 year old a weaning party with presents if
they weaned. Then the day after the party they have a sobbing 3 year
old who just didn't understand he was really going to have to give up
the single most important thing in his life. To me, that feels
manipulative, underhanded, and icky and very non-respecting of the
child. If, for some reason, I ever did have to initiate weaning, I'd
hope to do it with honesty and forthrightness and honor the child's
grieving over the loss. So, at least in my experience, if you're
looking for support for nursing a child over age 3 or 4, look
elsewhere than LLL.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-
tandeming for almost 4 years now...

Betsy

**I loved tandem nursing. I found it wonderful. I did not like nursing
the two at the same time, but I did like nursing my younger one and then
nursing my older one. I had fewer problems with engorgement.**

Oh, rats, it looks like I misremembered and misspoke. It's nursing the
toddler while pregnant with the younger child that I've heard the most
complaints about. My mistake.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/19/03 9:53:55 AM, diamondair@... writes:

<< like promising a 3 year old a weaning party with presents if

they weaned. Then the day after the party they have a sobbing 3 year

old who just didn't understand he was really going to have to give up

the single most important thing in his life. >>

YIKES!

The LLL leaders here didn't do anything to press their kids to wean that I
saw. Several tandem nursed pretty joyfully!

Me, though, when Kirby was nearly three and Marty was an infant, when Kirby
latched on there was a wave of revulsion, at a biochemical level. It was a
CLEAR signal to ME not to do it, but intellectually I really really wanted to. I
felt bad enough about bringing Marty in without cutting Kirby off, so I tried
all manner of tricks and tools, and talked to moms who were doing it fine, to
try to see if I could change my response, but it was physical. As soon as
Marty latched on, my body went all soft and the right hormones came, and it was
just perfect. Kirby, one second later, I was having violent visions of
getting him OFF me. Freaky and very sad for me. I know one other mom who had that
happen. She was sad too, and tried a few months anyway too.

I went six whole months, but near the end of it told him I was really sorry
but it wasn't feeling so good, what else could we do? We made a deal about a
Ninja Turtle costume, and I rocked him to sleep every night for WEEKS (maybe
months) singing "Kirby's Magic Horse Song," It was The Ash Grove (the tune),
which has really long, slow lines and gave me a chance to think of a next line.
They were all ad libbed, but the same theme. They involved Kirby getting a
magic flying horse for his birthday, and going on adventures to help other
people. And every time, the people they helped happened somehow to have Ninja
Turtle toys and let Kirby have one or two of them out of gratitude for his
generous help.

Once a truck was broken down, and Kirby and his horse helped the driver, and
the truck was full of Ninja Turtle toys. Once they helped someone who worked
at WalMart who gave him... a Ninja Turtle toy. Once there was a cabin in the
mountains...

He would fall asleep in the nursing place, without the nursing.

(I went to Kirby's diary file to deposit that, but enough details were
already in there. I found this, though, and will throw it in the hopper here.)

July 15, 1990, Kirby’s nearly four years old. He woke up saying he had a
dream (he’s good at telling dreams) that I wasn’t in. He said daddy wasn’t
there and I wasn’t there, just him and Marty and they didn’t call us because
they didn’t want us. They were playing all by themselves and they weren’t
scared. They were outside at a house that wasn’t our house and it was far away.
Then Kirby was playing all by himself and he wasn’t scared but Marty was
playing all by himself and he was crying so Kirby went to find me and we were
looking for Marty but we couldn’t find him. I asked, “Was I scared?”

“No, because you were with Keith.” [‘Teef’ as he said]

“Was it a scary dream or a good dream?”

“It was a happy dream. Then I was looking for Marty and then I opened my
eyes and I was in my house and my dream was gone. That’s how dreams end. How
dreams start is you close your eyes and then moving pictures come and then
that’s your dream. Then at the end there are pictures.”

(Maybe it was happy because he had lost Marty... but they're older now and do
pretty well together. <g>)


Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/19/2003 11:53:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
diamondair@... writes:

> All the leaders I personally know
> weaned at 3 or 4. I have yet to meet one who let their child wean
> naturally.

Some children naturally wean at a year, some at two years, some at six
months. Some mothers do wean their children, I recognize that but there are chil
dren who naturally wean on their own much earlier than four, five or six.

I nursed all of my children, until THEY were ready to stop. It always felt
"too soon" to me, but none of them were over two years old. Sometimes I felt
it was more a grieving process for ME that the special time was over more than
it was for the child.

I'll admit I'm one of those people who cannot fathom nursing a five or six
year old child, anymore than I would think of handing them a bottle at that age.
I've read the posts and tried to understand why/how nursing continues up to
that age. My nephew did it, I'm trying to understand it but still admit I
would find it odd for a five or six year old to be suckling at his/her mothers
breast. I know this is just my personal hangup for some reason and I'm trying
to dismiss the oddness of it from my mind but just haven't been able to do so.

I've asked myself every question I can think of to try and determine WHY I
don't think I could/would do that but I don't really get any answers, other than
it seems really ewwwwwwwwww to me to have my big child latched onto my
breast.

For those of you who have/do nurse these older children at what age would you
consider it NOT to be OK? Or is there ever any arbitrary age? Is it really
for nourishment or is it mostly for comfort? Is it just for special time with
mother and child after a busy day, a time for sure you come together?

Are other people very supportive of this? I know my sister didn't get much
support. I didn't say anything to her about nursing Dan at six in front of a
house full of people but I DID think it odd. For nothing other than I would
not expose myself fully to a house full of guests and be comfortable just
chatting away at all.

I'm not trying at all to say you shouldn't be doing this, I'm just trying to
understand it and maybe get rid of some of the yucky feeling that it brings up
when I think of it. I don't know where they come from so it must mean they
are not valid and I'm trying to work on that aspect.

Who knows I might have grandchildren one day that want to nurse long term and
I'd like to be positive and supportive if it ever comes up.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

averyschmidt

> Some children naturally wean at a year, some at two years, some at
six
> months.

Six months?! I guess that depends on your definition of naturally.
I can't personally imagine a six month old really weaning unless
you're talking about a baby who is also bottlefed and begins to
prefer the bottle. I'm sure that happens, but I wouldn't call
it "weaning naturally."

> I'll admit I'm one of those people who cannot fathom nursing a
five or six
> year old child, anymore than I would think of handing them a
bottle at that age.

I used to say that I couldn't fathom nursing a two year old and I
eventually did just that!

Patti

[email protected]

Patti wrote: I can't personally imagine a six month old really weaning unless
you're talking about a baby who is also bottlefed and begins to
prefer the bottle.

Raine replies: My daughter weaned herself at 8 mos. because I cut my hair. I had very long hair which she held onto while she nursed, and I (unthinkingly) cut it quite short... That was it! She wanted nothing to do with nursing after that! I felt just awful... :o(
An interesting side-note... she now has very long hair herself (she's 10).
Shalom,
Raine

**The object of teaching a child is to enable him to get along without a teacher.
Elbert Hubbard**

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the_clevengers

> Patti wrote: I can't personally imagine a six month old really
weaning unless
> you're talking about a baby who is also bottlefed and begins to
> prefer the bottle.

I think a lot of people confuse nursing strikes or distractibility
with weaning. Often, a baby will go on a nursing strike for one
reason or another. This can be caused by something traumatic
occurring, even something as simple as a mom yelling loudly when a
baby bites, a mom wearing different clothes, or smelling different.
It can also be caused by the baby teething or by many other things.
Nursing strikes can last hours, or days, or even a week or more, but
I know many moms who have successfully gotten the baby back to the
breast after a nursing strike. The thing is, if a baby goes to
bottles from the breast, child-led weaning hasn't occurred. A change
in preference or ease of eating has occurred. A child who is old
enough to wean will have already given up liquid nourishment like
formula not just switching the method of conveyance (breast to
bottle).

Additionally, lots of moms confuse the 8 - 12 month distractibility
phase with weaning. I've nursed two babes through that time period
and yes, they are much more distractible during that timeframe and
sometimes even hard to get *to* the breast. It's an easy time to
*wean them* either on purpose or inadvertantly, but it's not a
natural age for weaning either. At that point, they have been weaned,
either on purpose or by the mother confusing distractibility with
weaning, but they aren't weaning themselves. A child without formula
available (as in indigenous peoples) could not be weaned at this age
and easily survive.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

[email protected]

Robin wrote: Nursing strikes can last hours, or days, or even a week or more, but
I know many moms who have successfully gotten the baby back to the
breast after a nursing strike.

Raine replies: -sob- I wish I had all the knowledge I have/am learning now 10 years ago! It's a wonder I haven't scarred my kids for life 10 different ways!
Well, I'll file this away for future reference, I know it will be beneficial to someone.
Thank you,
Raine
"I never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea

At 03:47 PM 6/19/03 +0000, Robin wrote:
>And FWIW, I haven't found LLL leaders to be the best source of info
>and support for nursing older kids. All the leaders I personally know
>weaned at 3 or 4. I have yet to meet one who let their child wean
>naturally. Some of the ones I know did some pretty egregious things,
>IMHO, like promising a 3 year old a weaning party with presents if
>they weaned. Then the day after the party they have a sobbing 3 year
>old who just didn't understand he was really going to have to give up
>the single most important thing in his life. To me, that feels
>manipulative, underhanded, and icky and very non-respecting of the
>child. If, for some reason, I ever did have to initiate weaning, I'd
>hope to do it with honesty and forthrightness and honor the child's
>grieving over the loss. So, at least in my experience, if you're
>looking for support for nursing a child over age 3 or 4, look
>elsewhere than LLL.

[I repeated the whole paragraph because I thought it was important to keep
it all together.]

Ack, sorry you met the wrong LLL Leaders but please don't paint them all
with the same brush. I have met many and all of the ones I have known well
have weaned naturally, including one who first tandem nursed babies with a
3-y.o. and then the twins with an infant. I have also met some who did just
as you descibe and I found it shocking not only that they would do this but
talk about it after :-P

Both of my older sons weaned when I was pregnant though I was hoping to
tandem nurse, especially with my oldest who was only (only :-) 2years 9
months when his brother was born. Eric (second child) was almost four when
he weaned but I still didn't expect it. Simon is still nursing at four -
he's four today.

Donna Andrea

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/19/03 4:21:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rainelovesj@... writes:

> Robin wrote: Nursing strikes can last hours, or days, or even a week or
> more, but
> I know many moms who have successfully gotten the baby back to the
> breast after a nursing strike.
>

But, that seems .. I dont know.. manipulative? WHY try to get the baby back
to nursing? What is the motivation in that? I mean, if the baby does not
want to nurse any more, give them a cup. If a baby went on a "bottle strike"
should the mother continually try to get the baby back on the bottle? Is is
about the breast milk itself? that it is so much better for the baby? Heck,
pump it and put it in a cup. If you pumped during the strike, your milk
supply would not wane, and if baby wanted to nurse again after thier "strike" so
be it.

To me, a nursing strike would be a definite sign of natural weaning. To
strive to convince the baby that it DOES want to nurse seems unnatural. It
almost seems like the Mom saying.. "oh, but yes, you do want to nurse, you need
to, you just don't know it" Whats the difference in that and a mom saying.
"oh, but you need to sleep in your own bed, you want to, you just don't know
it"? Or, " oh, you need to follow this curriculum( read this book, eat this
food, play this game, take this class.. etc etc), it's better for you, you just
dont know it" ???


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> I'll admit I'm one of those people who cannot fathom nursing a five or six
> year old child, anymore than I would think of handing them a bottle at
that age.
> I've read the posts and tried to understand why/how nursing continues up
to
> that age. My nephew did it, I'm trying to understand it but still admit I
> would find it odd for a five or six year old to be suckling at his/her
mothers
> breast. I know this is just my personal hangup for some reason and I'm
trying
> to dismiss the oddness of it from my mind but just haven't been able to do
so.

If you lived in almost any culture in the world you wouldn't find it odd.
I'm pretty sure the worldwide *average* age of weaning is either 4 or 6.
That includes an awful lot of North American babies weaned at well under a
year, so there must be a lot of non-North American kids nursing even longer.
>
> I've asked myself every question I can think of to try and determine WHY I
> don't think I could/would do that but I don't really get any answers,
other than
> it seems really ewwwwwwwwww to me to have my big child latched onto my
> breast.

The thought of suddenly starting to nurse a 6 year old turns me off too.
But they just don't seem that big when you've been nursing them all along.
>
> For those of you who have/do nurse these older children at what age would
you
> consider it NOT to be OK?

When mother or child really didn't want to anymore.

Or is there ever any arbitrary age? Is it really
> for nourishment or is it mostly for comfort? Is it just for special time
with
> mother and child after a busy day, a time for sure you come together?

I think at that age it's mostly comfort, but there is the knowledge that the
child is getting *some* good nutrients. This can become much more important
during illness, or even for a picky eater.
>
> Are other people very supportive of this? I know my sister didn't get
much
> support. I didn't say anything to her about nursing Dan at six in front
of a
> house full of people but I DID think it odd. For nothing other than I
would
> not expose myself fully to a house full of guests and be comfortable just
> chatting away at all.

I didn't nurse my kids in public after they were around 2 and could wait to
get to the car or wherever. That's just me though. One of them insisted on
pulling shirt all the way up when he nursed. <g>
>
> Who knows I might have grandchildren one day that want to nurse long term
and
> I'd like to be positive and supportive if it ever comes up.

Two of my kids nursed to just past 4. One of my grandkids was just over 6.
The other two are still happily nursing at 2 1/2 and almost a year.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Tia Leschke

> Six months?! I guess that depends on your definition of naturally.
> I can't personally imagine a six month old really weaning unless
> you're talking about a baby who is also bottlefed and begins to
> prefer the bottle. I'm sure that happens, but I wouldn't call
> it "weaning naturally."

It might also be a nursing strike. One of mine bit me so hard at nine
months that I screamed really loudly. He refused to nurse again for 3 days.
If I hadn't known about nursing strikes, I probably would have thought he
had weaned himself. As it was, I just kept my milk going by expressing
every so often.
One of my friends had one who appeared to wean really
early. Turns out he was highly allergic to foods that she was eating daily.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

averyschmidt

> Raine replies: My daughter weaned herself at 8 mos. because I cut
my hair. I had very long hair which she held onto while she nursed,
and I (unthinkingly) cut it quite short... That was it! She wanted
nothing to do with nursing after that! I felt just awful... :o(

What did she wean *to*? Was she eating solid food yet? Drinking
from a bottle? Did she suck on anything else?
I'm interested because my own children didn't even have interest in
solid food until close to their first birthdays, so the idea of an
eight month old weaning is pretty foreign to me.

Patti

averyschmidt

>At that point, they have been weaned,
> either on purpose or by the mother confusing distractibility with
> weaning, but they aren't weaning themselves.

Someone I know once told me that her son weaned at just under a
year. I can't remember if she described him as "weaning himself" or
not, but she basically said that he indicated he was ready to wean
by biting her. She assumed (or had read) that that was a clear
message from the baby that he was ready to be weaned!

Patti

Tia Leschke

>
> But, that seems .. I dont know.. manipulative? WHY try to get the baby
back
> to nursing? What is the motivation in that? I mean, if the baby does not
> want to nurse any more, give them a cup.

Because it isn't a situation where the baby doesn't want to nurse *anymore*.
It's a situation where the baby doesn't want to nurse *right now* for
whatever reason (mother yelling or cutting her hair for instance).

>If a baby went on a "bottle strike"
> should the mother continually try to get the baby back on the bottle?

I don't imagine the bottle would have yelled at the baby or cut its hair.
<g> I encouraged the child who went on the nursing strike to switch to a
bottle when he was a year and a half because he wanted to take it with him.
OUCH! (I think I would have tried other things now, but that was then.) He
threw his bottle into the garbage when he was three. He was ready then.

Is is
> about the breast milk itself? that it is so much better for the baby?
Heck,
> pump it and put it in a cup. If you pumped during the strike, your milk
> supply would not wane, and if baby wanted to nurse again after thier
"strike" so
> be it.

It's about the breast milk. It's about the natural comfort nursing provides
a non-stiking baby. Have you ever seen how fast a nursing toddler with a
cut lip stops crying once they start nursing? And how fast the bleeding
stops? There are all kinds of reasons to want to be absolutely sure that
the child is weaning rather than not nursing for some other reason.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

averyschmidt

> To me, a nursing strike would be a definite sign of natural
weaning.

Nope, it's not- at least not in a young infant.

To
> strive to convince the baby that it DOES want to nurse seems
unnatural. It
> almost seems like the Mom saying.. "oh, but yes, you do want to
nurse, you need
> to, you just don't know it"

My third son had an inexplicable nursing strike when he was around 6
months old. He went from nursing around the clock (no solid food,
bottles or any other substitutes) to refusing the breast for almost
24 hours. I absolutely tried to "get him to nurse." Partly because
my breasts were about to explode, and partly because I was worried
that he'd get dehydrated- he also refused water from a cup.
The next day he picked up where he left off, nursing
enthusiastically and often and continued until two months shy of his
third birthday. His 24 hour "strike" is still a mystery to me.

>Whats the difference in that and a mom saying.
> "oh, but you need to sleep in your own bed, you want to, you just
don't know
> it"?

One of the obvious difference is that in the former the mom is
offering more of herself and the latter she's withholding herself.

Patti

Joylyn

rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/19/2003 11:53:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> diamondair@... writes:
>
> > All the leaders I personally know
> > weaned at 3 or 4. I have yet to meet one who let their child wean
> > naturally.


here here, you haven't met me I am a LLLL and I let both my kids wean
very naturally.

more later.

Joylyn

>
>
> Some children naturally wean at a year, some at two years, some at six
> months. Some mothers do wean their children, I recognize that but
> there are chil
> dren who naturally wean on their own much earlier than four, five or six.
>
> I nursed all of my children, until THEY were ready to stop. It always
> felt
> "too soon" to me, but none of them were over two years old. Sometimes
> I felt
> it was more a grieving process for ME that the special time was over
> more than
> it was for the child.
>
> I'll admit I'm one of those people who cannot fathom nursing a five or
> six
> year old child, anymore than I would think of handing them a bottle at
> that age.
> I've read the posts and tried to understand why/how nursing continues
> up to
> that age. My nephew did it, I'm trying to understand it but still
> admit I
> would find it odd for a five or six year old to be suckling at his/her
> mothers
> breast. I know this is just my personal hangup for some reason and
> I'm trying
> to dismiss the oddness of it from my mind but just haven't been able
> to do so.
>
> I've asked myself every question I can think of to try and determine
> WHY I
> don't think I could/would do that but I don't really get any answers,
> other than
> it seems really ewwwwwwwwww to me to have my big child latched onto my
> breast.
>
> For those of you who have/do nurse these older children at what age
> would you
> consider it NOT to be OK? Or is there ever any arbitrary age? Is it
> really
> for nourishment or is it mostly for comfort? Is it just for special
> time with
> mother and child after a busy day, a time for sure you come together?
>
> Are other people very supportive of this? I know my sister didn't get
> much
> support. I didn't say anything to her about nursing Dan at six in
> front of a
> house full of people but I DID think it odd. For nothing other than I
> would
> not expose myself fully to a house full of guests and be comfortable just
> chatting away at all.
>
> I'm not trying at all to say you shouldn't be doing this, I'm just
> trying to
> understand it and maybe get rid of some of the yucky feeling that it
> brings up
> when I think of it. I don't know where they come from so it must mean
> they
> are not valid and I'm trying to work on that aspect.
>
> Who knows I might have grandchildren one day that want to nurse long
> term and
> I'd like to be positive and supportive if it ever comes up.
>
> glena
>
>
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>
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In a message dated 6/19/03 2:47:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

> For those of you who have/do nurse these older children at what age would
> you
> consider it NOT to be OK? Or is there ever any arbitrary age? Is it really
>
> for nourishment or is it mostly for comfort? Is it just for special time
> with
> mother and child after a busy day, a time for sure you come together?
>
> Are other people very supportive of this?

My son is 6 years old and continues to nurse. At this age it is mostly for
comfort. The WHO (World Health Organization) recommends that a child's primary
source of nutrition should be breast milk until the age of 1 year. And
should continue at least until the age of two.

For me it is not a "weird" thing. It isn't like he started breastfeeding at
age 4 or something. IT has been a relationship from birth. I am not sure you
can put an age on it. I think it depends on the mother and child. Every
relationship is different. For us it is the most natural thing in the world. My
son only nurses at night now so not many people see him nursing but at the
age of 3-4 he was still nursing in public and no one has ever said anything.

When flying from Germany my oldest was 3 and my youngest about 6 months and I
tandem nursed on the plane. Was thinking I might get some funny looks but no
one said anything. The flight attendant even said how cute it looked, both
sleeping at the breast. I will say it is really difficult to be discreet and
tandem nurse, however. LOL

Pam G.


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In a message dated 6/19/03 6:09:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> To me, a nursing strike would be a definite sign of natural
> weaning.
>
> Nope, it's not- at least not in a young infant.
>

How young? someone said thier child stopped nursing at 8 mos, that is too
young? Too young to stop drinking breast milk, or too young to stop nursing at
the breast? Babies are often weaned to a cup with formula at 8 months. How
can you determine when a child is going on a nursing strike, or just
naturally ready to stop nursing? I would say, if it takes weeks or months to get the
baby back to nursing, that is manipulating the child to go back to the
breast.

Teresa


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In a message dated 6/19/03 4:48:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> But, that seems .. I dont know.. manipulative? WHY try to get the baby
> back
> to nursing? What is the motivation in that?

Nutrition
Pam G


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In a message dated 6/19/03 6:21:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> ? I would say, if it takes weeks or months to get the
> baby back to nursing, that is manipulating the child to go back to the
> breast.
>
>

It isn't like a mother is there trying to pay the child to nurse. But at
that age there is still such a desire to suck for comfort and such a need for the
nutrition. If the baby is crying it would seem more natural to me to try to
get it to nurse than to try to get it to suck on a pacifier. Or if the baby
is hungry it would be a more natural thing to try to get him to nurse than to
take a bottle or a cup. My boys were not very good at a cup at 8 months.
Never did master the "sippy cup".

I should say I have never had to deal with a nursing strike myself only
through my clients as a lactation consultant. There are such benefits for baby
from the breastmilk and such benefits to the mother's health from the nursing.
Pam G.


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In a message dated 6/19/03 6:21:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, genant2@...
writes:

> But, that seems .. I dont know.. manipulative? WHY try to get the baby
> >back
> >to nursing? What is the motivation in that?
>
> Nutrition
> Pam G
>

I can definitely understand the nutrition thing. And even the long term
benefits ( over the age of 1) The thing I do not understand is why it would
take weeks or months for a baby to get over a "nursing strike". And even if a
child did not want to nurse for that period of time.. Wouldnt they indicate
at some point that they did want to nurse again without the mother having to
"be successful at getting them back to the breast"? I know that breast milk is
supply and demand.. no nursing mother would go completely dry in a few weeks.
ESPECIALLY if she were pumping and offering the milk in a cup. Why would it
be such an effort if the child really was just not interested nursing "right
now" Wouldnt they eventually come back to the breast if they wanted to?

I know Pam and she is such an easy going person, I can easily imagine her
boys going through a non nursing jag and she would just let it slide by til when
and if they wanted to nurse again. Just like she is not concerned about her
son still nursing at 6, she wouldn't freak out if he wanted to stop at 8 mos
( even it was just for a while). Pam, correct me if Im wrong here.

Maybe I am misinterpretting "getting the baby back to the breast"
Especially after weeks or months.. Hours and days, I can understand.. you just keep
offering the breast til the baby accepts.. or you wait them out til they
indicate they want to nurse. But after weeks?? What I imagine ( and since I
dont personally know the original poster, and now I cant even remember who is
was) is a mother pressing and trying and putting forth all kinds of effort to
get a baby to accept the breast again even after they have shown for an extended
period of time that they do not want to nurse.

Teresa


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In a message dated 6/19/2003 6:13:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
leschke@... writes:

> Have you ever seen how fast a nursing toddler with a
> cut lip stops crying once they start nursing?

A toddler usually stops crying if the mother picks them up and comforts them
too. I guess as it is with everything else it's really up to the mother and
the child to determine what works best for them.

It is hard to cry when anything is in your mouth. I guess that statement
could reflect giving a child a pacifier or them using their thumb for comfort or
grabbing their favorite blankie. Whatever it is that comforts that particular
child would work. For some the mother feels comfortable putting them to the
breast and encouraging that, another might just pick them up and cuddle them.
Yet another child might quiet themselves with their blankie or pacifier.

Again, one of those instances where it's not a set in stone way for everyone.

glena


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In a message dated 6/19/03 3:25:15 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< Is it really for nourishment or is it mostly for comfort? Is it just for
special time

with mother and child after a busy day, a time for sure you come together? >>


There is stuff in there. Sedative stuff. And for the mom too, there is a
stupifying effect along with letdown WHEN it's working ideally. Some moms don't
seem to obtain that benefit. Without it I could never have sat in one place
for thirty minutes. With it, I could sit lovingly and patiently with a baby
for an hour.

Sandra

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In a message dated 6/19/03 4:21:06 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< How young? someone said thier child stopped nursing at 8 mos, that is too
young? Too young to stop drinking breast milk, or too young to stop nursing
at
the breast? >>

For some families, it's not too young for daycare/preschool.

<< Babies are often weaned to a cup with formula at 8 months. >>

Why and where?

It really is worth trying to discover (from observation, reading, instinct or
communication with an infant, which is possible for some people if they're
careful and they have that kind of talent) what is natural and what is right.

<< I would say, if it takes weeks or months to get the
baby back to nursing, that is manipulating the child to go back to the
breast.>>

Did someone say weeks or months and I missed it?
I think it's hours or a day.

Sandra

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In a message dated 6/19/03 7:28:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> <<Babies are often weaned to a cup with formula at 8 months. >>
>
> Why and where?
>

I meant bottle fed if I didn't say that. Why, because they can. Where,
anywhere they can drink from a cup and don't want a bottle any longer. Landon
was totally off of a bottle by 9 months.

<Did someone say weeks or months and I missed it?
I think it's hours or a day.>

Yes, in the original post someone said friends of thiers had babies on a
nursing strike for weeks or months, but sucessfully got them back to the breast.
I don't even contest a couple of weeks of a "nursing strike" its the
extended time that seems odd to me to keep trying to get them back to the breast

Teresa




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In a message dated 6/19/03 6:26:17 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< > Have you ever seen how fast a nursing toddler with a
> cut lip stops crying once they start nursing? >>

Cut lip.
Not just needing comfort. Injured.

Nursing a child with a cut lip provides clean pressure on the wound, and a
sedative.

Sandra