Deference (was " Respect and polite ")
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In a message dated 6/17/03 10:38:16 AM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< The question of
rank is not something that we really deal with on a day in day out basis. We
live in and among our families and friends and peers and co-workers, and for
the most part, we are all the same rank, we are people who care for and love
and respect each other with no regard for who is "above" whom.. But, on
occasion, rank does come to into play, >>
Depending how subtly people view things, it can be day to day.
When expertise is important, those who are newer or less experienced should
defer to people with more experience. Our friend Mark rides horses. Once a
week he helps others do the same. When he's doing that, he ranks. They really
need to take his advice and follow his rules, as he's the one who contracted
with the stables for people to be there that day.
When we're playing music, Mark ranks none at all. His wife plays sometimes
(used to) and he might show up to carry her stuff in. But if we were playing
and Mark interrupted, it would be really rude. He's not a musician. And he
wouldn't dream of interrupting!
If Mark's over, and Keith, and Cathyn, working on armor, I'm nobody. I can
bring them drinks and offer them food, and bring them a phone if someone calls,
but I'm not an armorer, and what they are doing is none of my business. I
wouldn't say "Stop hammering those rivets, I'm trying to watch TV." If they've
arranged to make armor, that's what's happening that day.
Mark used to be a long haired college kid who was my husband's squire's
squire (the middle-man having been knighted).
Cathyn used to be a long haired drop-out drug dealing brat. That was a long
time ago.
When we're cooking as a group, for a feast or project, Cathyn is IT. He
knows lots. We defer to him and take his advice. If Mark Schander (a different
Mark) shows up, or Marie Heuser, Cathyn will step back and defer to them. As
cooks, they rank him. He LOVES to watch them cook, and he learns a lot from
them. So this "rank" I'm talking about isn't given after a test, doesn't
involve a certificate, it's not claimed king-of-the-mountain style. It's deference
to people who know more, who have more reason to be in charge, or who are for
that moment in a position of knowledge or authority, and others who are
interested in the horses, armor, music, cooking, whatever, defer.
Cathyn can also do electricity. When he works on our fixtures, Keith will
stand by and hand him tools, because Keith doesn't do electricity.
Mark (of the horses and armor) is a police officer now. When the subject was
a young man of our acquaintance who had gotten crazy and threatened a female
friend, we asked Mark what we should do, and we shut up and we listened to him
about what was legal, and what was likely to make things worse.
Mark rarely outranks me in social situations (and we've intersected half a
dozen ways over the years). When he does, I don't hesitate to defer to him,
make sure he has whatever tools (space, light, phone, food, chair, table, pen) he
needs to do what he needs to do. He has done the same for me, when roles
were reversed in other situations. We've been in situations where we were flatly
equal. It's nice. They're all nice. They can change by the moment.
When I was in my 20's, my favorite professor, whom I'd known since I was 18,
got me to join the SCA. We had done folk music together (equals) I'd taken
classes with him (NOT equal), I had visited him in England when he was there on
sabbatical (I was a guest in HIS house, so I got special tourist attention,
but had to follow his house rules and schedule), and he convinced me to join the
SCA, where I outranked him within two years. He was always gracious about
that, and I knew when we were back in academia I was little to his big. No
problem.
Kids can learn to ride that adeptly if parents help them instead of hinder
them.
If a child's being taught to do introductions, those things DO matter.
Sandra
<< The question of
rank is not something that we really deal with on a day in day out basis. We
live in and among our families and friends and peers and co-workers, and for
the most part, we are all the same rank, we are people who care for and love
and respect each other with no regard for who is "above" whom.. But, on
occasion, rank does come to into play, >>
Depending how subtly people view things, it can be day to day.
When expertise is important, those who are newer or less experienced should
defer to people with more experience. Our friend Mark rides horses. Once a
week he helps others do the same. When he's doing that, he ranks. They really
need to take his advice and follow his rules, as he's the one who contracted
with the stables for people to be there that day.
When we're playing music, Mark ranks none at all. His wife plays sometimes
(used to) and he might show up to carry her stuff in. But if we were playing
and Mark interrupted, it would be really rude. He's not a musician. And he
wouldn't dream of interrupting!
If Mark's over, and Keith, and Cathyn, working on armor, I'm nobody. I can
bring them drinks and offer them food, and bring them a phone if someone calls,
but I'm not an armorer, and what they are doing is none of my business. I
wouldn't say "Stop hammering those rivets, I'm trying to watch TV." If they've
arranged to make armor, that's what's happening that day.
Mark used to be a long haired college kid who was my husband's squire's
squire (the middle-man having been knighted).
Cathyn used to be a long haired drop-out drug dealing brat. That was a long
time ago.
When we're cooking as a group, for a feast or project, Cathyn is IT. He
knows lots. We defer to him and take his advice. If Mark Schander (a different
Mark) shows up, or Marie Heuser, Cathyn will step back and defer to them. As
cooks, they rank him. He LOVES to watch them cook, and he learns a lot from
them. So this "rank" I'm talking about isn't given after a test, doesn't
involve a certificate, it's not claimed king-of-the-mountain style. It's deference
to people who know more, who have more reason to be in charge, or who are for
that moment in a position of knowledge or authority, and others who are
interested in the horses, armor, music, cooking, whatever, defer.
Cathyn can also do electricity. When he works on our fixtures, Keith will
stand by and hand him tools, because Keith doesn't do electricity.
Mark (of the horses and armor) is a police officer now. When the subject was
a young man of our acquaintance who had gotten crazy and threatened a female
friend, we asked Mark what we should do, and we shut up and we listened to him
about what was legal, and what was likely to make things worse.
Mark rarely outranks me in social situations (and we've intersected half a
dozen ways over the years). When he does, I don't hesitate to defer to him,
make sure he has whatever tools (space, light, phone, food, chair, table, pen) he
needs to do what he needs to do. He has done the same for me, when roles
were reversed in other situations. We've been in situations where we were flatly
equal. It's nice. They're all nice. They can change by the moment.
When I was in my 20's, my favorite professor, whom I'd known since I was 18,
got me to join the SCA. We had done folk music together (equals) I'd taken
classes with him (NOT equal), I had visited him in England when he was there on
sabbatical (I was a guest in HIS house, so I got special tourist attention,
but had to follow his house rules and schedule), and he convinced me to join the
SCA, where I outranked him within two years. He was always gracious about
that, and I knew when we were back in academia I was little to his big. No
problem.
Kids can learn to ride that adeptly if parents help them instead of hinder
them.
If a child's being taught to do introductions, those things DO matter.
Sandra