Re: Advice Needed Please, Sandra & Others..Long
[email protected]
Does anyone here know how or have any advice on how to deal with demanding
parents and in-laws? I could really use some advice before I move on and loose
my cool with my family. Please excuse my way of writing, as you all know I am
not good with words.
We've always been the type of parents that procrastinate. We'll do it next
year, someday, maybe tomorrow and so on. Since we've joined this list we now
have the attitude with ourselves and Christopher that there is no tomorrow, lets
do it now! Life is to short!
Here is the problem: My parents whom we are extremely close to, think we are
ruining Christopher by unschooling him and that my husband and I are just
crazy. Christopher wanted all his hair shaved off and he got what he wanted and my
parents had a fit. I wanted to get some tattoo's, always have, I had them
done and now I am a freak. They've bucked us right down to television, video
games, bed time and anything else under the sun. I guess our change in 6 months is
too much for them to swallow and I can understand that but it is getting to
be too much.
The big one hit Friday when we told them we are moving to New Hampshire by
the end of July. Now they won't talk to us! I know it must be hard for them as
we have never lived out of state but they know we've been building on our land
for 3 years and we've been saying someday, someday, someday. We're tired of
saying someday. We all want to go so badly, especially Christopher. With Kevin
being laid off from the airport for the last 6 months and the cabin almost
done, it's the perfect time. I hate to see my parents cry and I don't want them to
be mad but we just can't say okay maybe next year, that is the same thing we
kept on saying with our son in regard to homeschooling. Maybe next year. Big
Mistake.
The second problem comes with my husbands parents. They left Kevin behind to
live on his own since 16 years old. 2 years ago they moved back from out of
the country to our state. Last year, they were both diagnosed with a terminal
illness. They are stubborn, live on their own and don't want anyone's help. They
are very mad that we are leaving. We're only going to be 3 1/2 hours away
from them, compared to the 1 1/2 hours we are now. Not too bad. They said they
came home to live close to their son and now we are leaving and if that weren't
bad enough we are ruining their grandson by unschooling him. He talks too much
now. I can't believe that bs! They'll never speak to us again if we go. The
way I look at it is Kevin is 44 now and Christopher will be 14. We are not
getting any younger. Christopher has been wanting to live there (on our land)
since he was 5 years old. He wants to do it before he's not a kid anymore. Kevin's
parents wanted their freedom to go off on their own, now we want ours. This
is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life and
moving there would make us all so much happier. We feel for them of course but to
stay till they die? They said we could just wait for that to happen. I don't
like that thought.
We've told them over and over that we'll write, we'll visit and call them as
often as we can. We've reassured them all that we will be just fine out there
in the woods. We want to go, go, go! All the brothers and sisters though are
very happy for us.
Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? Sandra, what's your
thoughts?
How can we handle this without leaving on bad terms? There I go with the word
bad, you know what I mean. Christopher doesn't want to loose the wonderful
relationship he has with his grandparents but they won't talk to him either and
he's in tears. I'm so angry that they are acting like this! Okay, I'm going to
breath now. Thank-you to anyone that can pass some wisdom to us.
Kim
Ironic that New Hampshire's State motto is: Live Free Or Die
Me thinks I better be careful!
parents and in-laws? I could really use some advice before I move on and loose
my cool with my family. Please excuse my way of writing, as you all know I am
not good with words.
We've always been the type of parents that procrastinate. We'll do it next
year, someday, maybe tomorrow and so on. Since we've joined this list we now
have the attitude with ourselves and Christopher that there is no tomorrow, lets
do it now! Life is to short!
Here is the problem: My parents whom we are extremely close to, think we are
ruining Christopher by unschooling him and that my husband and I are just
crazy. Christopher wanted all his hair shaved off and he got what he wanted and my
parents had a fit. I wanted to get some tattoo's, always have, I had them
done and now I am a freak. They've bucked us right down to television, video
games, bed time and anything else under the sun. I guess our change in 6 months is
too much for them to swallow and I can understand that but it is getting to
be too much.
The big one hit Friday when we told them we are moving to New Hampshire by
the end of July. Now they won't talk to us! I know it must be hard for them as
we have never lived out of state but they know we've been building on our land
for 3 years and we've been saying someday, someday, someday. We're tired of
saying someday. We all want to go so badly, especially Christopher. With Kevin
being laid off from the airport for the last 6 months and the cabin almost
done, it's the perfect time. I hate to see my parents cry and I don't want them to
be mad but we just can't say okay maybe next year, that is the same thing we
kept on saying with our son in regard to homeschooling. Maybe next year. Big
Mistake.
The second problem comes with my husbands parents. They left Kevin behind to
live on his own since 16 years old. 2 years ago they moved back from out of
the country to our state. Last year, they were both diagnosed with a terminal
illness. They are stubborn, live on their own and don't want anyone's help. They
are very mad that we are leaving. We're only going to be 3 1/2 hours away
from them, compared to the 1 1/2 hours we are now. Not too bad. They said they
came home to live close to their son and now we are leaving and if that weren't
bad enough we are ruining their grandson by unschooling him. He talks too much
now. I can't believe that bs! They'll never speak to us again if we go. The
way I look at it is Kevin is 44 now and Christopher will be 14. We are not
getting any younger. Christopher has been wanting to live there (on our land)
since he was 5 years old. He wants to do it before he's not a kid anymore. Kevin's
parents wanted their freedom to go off on their own, now we want ours. This
is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life and
moving there would make us all so much happier. We feel for them of course but to
stay till they die? They said we could just wait for that to happen. I don't
like that thought.
We've told them over and over that we'll write, we'll visit and call them as
often as we can. We've reassured them all that we will be just fine out there
in the woods. We want to go, go, go! All the brothers and sisters though are
very happy for us.
Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? Sandra, what's your
thoughts?
How can we handle this without leaving on bad terms? There I go with the word
bad, you know what I mean. Christopher doesn't want to loose the wonderful
relationship he has with his grandparents but they won't talk to him either and
he's in tears. I'm so angry that they are acting like this! Okay, I'm going to
breath now. Thank-you to anyone that can pass some wisdom to us.
Kim
Ironic that New Hampshire's State motto is: Live Free Or Die
Me thinks I better be careful!
[email protected]
Wave good-bye and smile. Don't play their game. Go enjoy this new
adventure on your land. They'll come around if THEY want to.... you
can't make them. :) HTH
TreeGoddess
adventure on your land. They'll come around if THEY want to.... you
can't make them. :) HTH
TreeGoddess
jmcseals SEALS
<<This is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with
life and
moving there would make us all so much happier. ------
Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? ---How can we
handle this without leaving on bad terms?>>
Perhaps you can't leave on good terms. I'm sorry you are having such a hard
time. I have dealt with this far more than I care to have. I think your
family is most important, you, your husband and your son. I know how
difficult it is to turn away from family and be chastised by them but in the
end, you have to do what is best for the people you love most.
Your words above contain your answer, if you will listen to them. <<This
is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life and
moving there would make us all so much happier.>>>
Dont put your life on hold for people who aren't supportive of you,
especially those who condemn the life you choose to lead! Easier said than
done, but worse to forego your dreams and happiness for people like that.
Family or not!
Best Wishes,
Jennifer
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life and
moving there would make us all so much happier. ------
Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? ---How can we
handle this without leaving on bad terms?>>
Perhaps you can't leave on good terms. I'm sorry you are having such a hard
time. I have dealt with this far more than I care to have. I think your
family is most important, you, your husband and your son. I know how
difficult it is to turn away from family and be chastised by them but in the
end, you have to do what is best for the people you love most.
Your words above contain your answer, if you will listen to them. <<This
is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life and
moving there would make us all so much happier.>>>
Dont put your life on hold for people who aren't supportive of you,
especially those who condemn the life you choose to lead! Easier said than
done, but worse to forego your dreams and happiness for people like that.
Family or not!
Best Wishes,
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**Here is the problem: My parents whom we are extremely close to, think
we are
ruining Christopher by unschooling him and that my husband and I are
just
crazy. Christopher wanted all his hair shaved off and he got what he
wanted and my
parents had a fit. I wanted to get some tattoo's, always have, I had
them
done and now I am a freak. They've bucked us right down to television,
video
games, bed time and anything else under the sun. I guess our change in 6
months is
too much for them to swallow and I can understand that but it is getting
to
be too much.**
I saw a good Dr. Phil section recently on conflict between a very
critical mother-in-law and her righteously aggravated daughter-in-law.
At one point he said to the m-i-l something like this : "There is a
power struggle between you and your daughter-in-law, and you need to be
the one that loses." I liked that. It's appropriate for the current
set of parents, the ones raising young kids, to be the ones making the
decisions for their family. It doesn't fly for me for grandparents to
attempt to make decisions for their adult children. (Not that I know
how to get yours to stop trying.)
Moving away from family is as American as cherry pie. Some
relationships are improved by distance, some aren't. Your parents don't
get to make these decisions for you.
Betsy
we are
ruining Christopher by unschooling him and that my husband and I are
just
crazy. Christopher wanted all his hair shaved off and he got what he
wanted and my
parents had a fit. I wanted to get some tattoo's, always have, I had
them
done and now I am a freak. They've bucked us right down to television,
video
games, bed time and anything else under the sun. I guess our change in 6
months is
too much for them to swallow and I can understand that but it is getting
to
be too much.**
I saw a good Dr. Phil section recently on conflict between a very
critical mother-in-law and her righteously aggravated daughter-in-law.
At one point he said to the m-i-l something like this : "There is a
power struggle between you and your daughter-in-law, and you need to be
the one that loses." I liked that. It's appropriate for the current
set of parents, the ones raising young kids, to be the ones making the
decisions for their family. It doesn't fly for me for grandparents to
attempt to make decisions for their adult children. (Not that I know
how to get yours to stop trying.)
Moving away from family is as American as cherry pie. Some
relationships are improved by distance, some aren't. Your parents don't
get to make these decisions for you.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/03 11:41:43 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< The big one hit Friday when we told them we are moving to New Hampshire by
the end of July. Now they won't talk to us! I know it must be hard for them
as
we have never lived out of state but they know we've been building on our
land
for 3 years and we've been saying someday, someday, someday. We're tired of
saying someday. We all want to go so badly, especially Christopher. >>
I would go, and go soon, and let them get over their uptight selves (or not).
<<I hate to see my parents cry and I don't want them to
be mad but we just can't say okay maybe next year, that is the same thing we
kept on saying with our son in regard to homeschooling. >>
I've read several other responses you've already received, and I didn't
disagree with a bit of any I saw. I think if you're over 21, they've seen it
coming and had some time to prepare themselves.
<<They are stubborn, live on their own and don't want anyone's help.>>
Why, if they don't need your help?
<<Not too bad. They said they
came home to live close to their son and now we are leaving>>
Huh.
Maybe they shouldn't be as needy as 16 year olds.
But wait! They thought 16 was old enough to be on his own!
This is just irrational on their part, it seems to me.
<<if that weren't
bad enough we are ruining their grandson by unschooling him. He talks too
much
now. I can't believe that bs!>>
Tell them you don't want his talkativeness to disturb them. <g>
<< Christopher has been wanting to live there (on our land)
since he was 5 years old. He wants to do it before he's not a kid anymore. >>
GO GO GO!!!!
My boys are 14 and 16. Do it NOW. When he's grown he might end up being
there forever, or might end up moving far away, but he will have a few years of
being where he's wanted to be for 2/3 of his life thusfar!!
<<This is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life
and
moving there would make us all so much happier. >>
Tadaa!!!
Keith's parents were retiring when I first met them, 25 years ago. They're
still alive. You want to wait 25 years? DON'T.
<<Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? Sandra, what's
your
thoughts?>>
I think everybody else was saying "go" and they're right.
<<Christopher doesn't want to loose the wonderful
relationship he has with his grandparents but they won't talk to him either >>
That's not wonderful. WHAT "wonderful relationship" if they think he talks
too much and he's on the road to certain failure?
<<and
he's in tears. >>
That's bad, but he can write to them, call them, make them gifts (and
probably won't, once he gets away and gets busy elsewhere).
He's not their life. Mayby they're mad because he's not the fantasy boy
they're envisioning (whatever they're envisioning), but he is who he is! And he
wants to go to that property.
<<I'm so angry that they are acting like this! Okay, I'm going to
breath now.>>
Just put that energy into packing and planning, and when you see them smile
really big, and if they're pissy back, put it in an imaginary jar of proof that
it's really fine that you're going.
Sandra
<< The big one hit Friday when we told them we are moving to New Hampshire by
the end of July. Now they won't talk to us! I know it must be hard for them
as
we have never lived out of state but they know we've been building on our
land
for 3 years and we've been saying someday, someday, someday. We're tired of
saying someday. We all want to go so badly, especially Christopher. >>
I would go, and go soon, and let them get over their uptight selves (or not).
<<I hate to see my parents cry and I don't want them to
be mad but we just can't say okay maybe next year, that is the same thing we
kept on saying with our son in regard to homeschooling. >>
I've read several other responses you've already received, and I didn't
disagree with a bit of any I saw. I think if you're over 21, they've seen it
coming and had some time to prepare themselves.
<<They are stubborn, live on their own and don't want anyone's help.>>
Why, if they don't need your help?
<<Not too bad. They said they
came home to live close to their son and now we are leaving>>
Huh.
Maybe they shouldn't be as needy as 16 year olds.
But wait! They thought 16 was old enough to be on his own!
This is just irrational on their part, it seems to me.
<<if that weren't
bad enough we are ruining their grandson by unschooling him. He talks too
much
now. I can't believe that bs!>>
Tell them you don't want his talkativeness to disturb them. <g>
<< Christopher has been wanting to live there (on our land)
since he was 5 years old. He wants to do it before he's not a kid anymore. >>
GO GO GO!!!!
My boys are 14 and 16. Do it NOW. When he's grown he might end up being
there forever, or might end up moving far away, but he will have a few years of
being where he's wanted to be for 2/3 of his life thusfar!!
<<This is the first time all 3 of us have been so happy and content with life
and
moving there would make us all so much happier. >>
Tadaa!!!
Keith's parents were retiring when I first met them, 25 years ago. They're
still alive. You want to wait 25 years? DON'T.
<<Isn't that enough or are we being selfish? Any thoughts? Sandra, what's
your
thoughts?>>
I think everybody else was saying "go" and they're right.
<<Christopher doesn't want to loose the wonderful
relationship he has with his grandparents but they won't talk to him either >>
That's not wonderful. WHAT "wonderful relationship" if they think he talks
too much and he's on the road to certain failure?
<<and
he's in tears. >>
That's bad, but he can write to them, call them, make them gifts (and
probably won't, once he gets away and gets busy elsewhere).
He's not their life. Mayby they're mad because he's not the fantasy boy
they're envisioning (whatever they're envisioning), but he is who he is! And he
wants to go to that property.
<<I'm so angry that they are acting like this! Okay, I'm going to
breath now.>>
Just put that energy into packing and planning, and when you see them smile
really big, and if they're pissy back, put it in an imaginary jar of proof that
it's really fine that you're going.
Sandra
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
Kim,
What everyone else said... and then some!
You need to do what's right for you, your son and your dh. They had their
chance to live their lives (and still do.) You do not have to live their
lives for them, much less to their satisfaction!
Meddlesome relatives get better with distance. Mine are in Michigan - I
moved to California.
Distance can be a good thing.
HeidiWD
What everyone else said... and then some!
You need to do what's right for you, your son and your dh. They had their
chance to live their lives (and still do.) You do not have to live their
lives for them, much less to their satisfaction!
Meddlesome relatives get better with distance. Mine are in Michigan - I
moved to California.
Distance can be a good thing.
HeidiWD
coyote's corner
wow - I love this post!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Betsy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Advice Needed Please, Sandra & Others..Long
**Here is the problem: My parents whom we are extremely close to, think
we are
ruining Christopher by unschooling him and that my husband and I are
just
crazy. Christopher wanted all his hair shaved off and he got what he
wanted and my
parents had a fit. I wanted to get some tattoo's, always have, I had
them
done and now I am a freak. They've bucked us right down to television,
video
games, bed time and anything else under the sun. I guess our change in 6
months is
too much for them to swallow and I can understand that but it is getting
to
be too much.**
I saw a good Dr. Phil section recently on conflict between a very
critical mother-in-law and her righteously aggravated daughter-in-law.
At one point he said to the m-i-l something like this : "There is a
power struggle between you and your daughter-in-law, and you need to be
the one that loses." I liked that. It's appropriate for the current
set of parents, the ones raising young kids, to be the ones making the
decisions for their family. It doesn't fly for me for grandparents to
attempt to make decisions for their adult children. (Not that I know
how to get yours to stop trying.)
Moving away from family is as American as cherry pie. Some
relationships are improved by distance, some aren't. Your parents don't
get to make these decisions for you.
Betsy
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[email protected]
In a message dated 6/14/03 4:27:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, heidi@...
writes:
I ditto what Heidi and everyone else said. I do want to add something though.
When I read your post last nite, I was on a posting rampage, but stopped
myself because I felt your dilemma was worthy of longer contemplation. I have a
tendancy to jump the gun and get confrontational sometimes, especially when my
family is being hurt. My blood was boiling as I read your post.
I think more than anything else, it was the blantant disregard for your
marriage and your parenting and boils down to manipulation. I have been on this
road since I kicked my own father out of my home and my life just over 4 years
ago. You see manipulation as I know it now, is a two way street. In that, I mean
that people always talk about manipulators, but never the manipulated.
Manipulation only works when two parties are playing the game. I thought I was not
an easily manipulated person in all aspects of my life. I was a rebel to the
core as far as the way stuff "should" be done and the way I did my own thing.
That is, except where my father was concerned. My mom used to tell me that my
dad was a great manipulator, and that she worried about how much he could
manipulate me and I was blind to it. Unfortunately, for 29 years I was more blind
than I really even want to admit.
But when I opened my eyes to the pain he so easily afflicted on others,
especially his children and parents, I stepped back and realized I didn't want to
play the game anymore. I didn't want my kids to learn the game. I hated that my
siblings were stuck in the game because they were still minors. And when the
chips came tumbling down, I hated the fact that he had taught me from an early
age to play the manipulation game and I hated him for it. The more my sight
came back, the more I realized, I couldn't come up with a single positive thing
I liked about him. It was a horrible time in my life, but once I had all
these realizations, my own world started to make sense again. The day he left my
home was the first day of my life that I knew I would never again be
manipulated, especially with something as important as love.
You see that was his weapon of mass destruction...If you love me...you'll lie
for me, if you love me...you'll pick me over your mom, if you love
me...you'll live where I want you to, if you love me...you'll yada, yada, yada. Yet
doing all these things were never enough.
My husband had had enough when my health was on a really bad road in 1996 and
all the surgeries were happening, one after another, then the near death
thing and my dad never showed up once. No call, no card, no is she gonna live?
Even after that, I still stayed in the game mode though. My DH couldn't forgive
him, but I could. He was my daddy. Three years later his own life fell apart
and who's door did he come knocking on? Shockingly, my DH said, "He has to stay,
Rhonda, he has no where else to go." I knew then that letting him and 3 of my
7 siblings move in could risk everything we had built, but Phil loved me
enough to sacrifice his own feelings and try. Needless to say it didn't work. But
just like being sick can make you see stuff you never realized before, so can
these parents issues. For as horrible as it all went down, it was the only way
I was gonna really open my eyes, and realize I have the power to not let
anyone manipulate me, not even my parent.
So as sad as it is, and yes, it is in fact sad, your parents and your DH's
parents, have chosen to use your families love against you. They are using it to
manipulate you, your hubby, and the worst of all, your child. I say, DON"T
play the game. They have the choice to be mean and hateful or loving and kind,
either way it's their choice. As far as your son goes, I think a discussion of
what qualifies as sacrifice based on love vs. manipulation based on love maybe
in order. If they had 3 months to live and there was no doubt that they would
live past that time frame, that may be a sacrifice, where you love them
enough to postpone your own stuff. But to simply be throwing tantrums and pulling
that crap with your kid about not speaking to him, because your choices don't
agree with theirs, therefore you must not love them, well I'd say they are all
full of shit. By the fact that your son is in tears over the things they
threaten, would have me moving sooner than July. Figuratively of course. In other
words, I'd tell them you're leaving and you hope to have their best wishes, but
if they are too selfish to give you even just that much, are they even worth
one more tear? Especially the tears of your child? We are adults who can make
choices based on our experiences, but your son is watching all of this playing
out, what is it that you want him to learn?
Sorry, it seems I have still ranted, but I guess like always I had a lot to
say.
Hope it helps, good luck and best wishes!!!
Rhonda - father free, but much happier
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Kim,Kim,
> What everyone else said... and then some!
> You need to do what's right for you, your son and your dh. They had their
> chance to live their lives (and still do.) You do not have to live their
> lives for them, much less to their satisfaction!
>
I ditto what Heidi and everyone else said. I do want to add something though.
When I read your post last nite, I was on a posting rampage, but stopped
myself because I felt your dilemma was worthy of longer contemplation. I have a
tendancy to jump the gun and get confrontational sometimes, especially when my
family is being hurt. My blood was boiling as I read your post.
I think more than anything else, it was the blantant disregard for your
marriage and your parenting and boils down to manipulation. I have been on this
road since I kicked my own father out of my home and my life just over 4 years
ago. You see manipulation as I know it now, is a two way street. In that, I mean
that people always talk about manipulators, but never the manipulated.
Manipulation only works when two parties are playing the game. I thought I was not
an easily manipulated person in all aspects of my life. I was a rebel to the
core as far as the way stuff "should" be done and the way I did my own thing.
That is, except where my father was concerned. My mom used to tell me that my
dad was a great manipulator, and that she worried about how much he could
manipulate me and I was blind to it. Unfortunately, for 29 years I was more blind
than I really even want to admit.
But when I opened my eyes to the pain he so easily afflicted on others,
especially his children and parents, I stepped back and realized I didn't want to
play the game anymore. I didn't want my kids to learn the game. I hated that my
siblings were stuck in the game because they were still minors. And when the
chips came tumbling down, I hated the fact that he had taught me from an early
age to play the manipulation game and I hated him for it. The more my sight
came back, the more I realized, I couldn't come up with a single positive thing
I liked about him. It was a horrible time in my life, but once I had all
these realizations, my own world started to make sense again. The day he left my
home was the first day of my life that I knew I would never again be
manipulated, especially with something as important as love.
You see that was his weapon of mass destruction...If you love me...you'll lie
for me, if you love me...you'll pick me over your mom, if you love
me...you'll live where I want you to, if you love me...you'll yada, yada, yada. Yet
doing all these things were never enough.
My husband had had enough when my health was on a really bad road in 1996 and
all the surgeries were happening, one after another, then the near death
thing and my dad never showed up once. No call, no card, no is she gonna live?
Even after that, I still stayed in the game mode though. My DH couldn't forgive
him, but I could. He was my daddy. Three years later his own life fell apart
and who's door did he come knocking on? Shockingly, my DH said, "He has to stay,
Rhonda, he has no where else to go." I knew then that letting him and 3 of my
7 siblings move in could risk everything we had built, but Phil loved me
enough to sacrifice his own feelings and try. Needless to say it didn't work. But
just like being sick can make you see stuff you never realized before, so can
these parents issues. For as horrible as it all went down, it was the only way
I was gonna really open my eyes, and realize I have the power to not let
anyone manipulate me, not even my parent.
So as sad as it is, and yes, it is in fact sad, your parents and your DH's
parents, have chosen to use your families love against you. They are using it to
manipulate you, your hubby, and the worst of all, your child. I say, DON"T
play the game. They have the choice to be mean and hateful or loving and kind,
either way it's their choice. As far as your son goes, I think a discussion of
what qualifies as sacrifice based on love vs. manipulation based on love maybe
in order. If they had 3 months to live and there was no doubt that they would
live past that time frame, that may be a sacrifice, where you love them
enough to postpone your own stuff. But to simply be throwing tantrums and pulling
that crap with your kid about not speaking to him, because your choices don't
agree with theirs, therefore you must not love them, well I'd say they are all
full of shit. By the fact that your son is in tears over the things they
threaten, would have me moving sooner than July. Figuratively of course. In other
words, I'd tell them you're leaving and you hope to have their best wishes, but
if they are too selfish to give you even just that much, are they even worth
one more tear? Especially the tears of your child? We are adults who can make
choices based on our experiences, but your son is watching all of this playing
out, what is it that you want him to learn?
Sorry, it seems I have still ranted, but I guess like always I had a lot to
say.
Hope it helps, good luck and best wishes!!!
Rhonda - father free, but much happier
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/14/03 11:29:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RJHill241@... writes:
If they had 3 months to live and there was no doubt that they would NOT live
past that time frame, that may be a sacrifice, where you love them enough to
postpone your own stuff.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RJHill241@... writes:
> If they had 3 months to live and there was no doubt that they wouldOOOps, sorry, should have read:
> live past that time frame, that may be a sacrifice, where you love them
> enough to postpone your own stuff.
If they had 3 months to live and there was no doubt that they would NOT live
past that time frame, that may be a sacrifice, where you love them enough to
postpone your own stuff.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Thank-you everyone that responded on list and off to our situation. Your
advice and personal stories helped us tremendously especially Christopher. He read
every one of them.
We went to visit my parents and DH parents today for Father's Day. DH parents
were just plain cold towards us barely saying a word but we just kept on
smiling! My parents were very quiet but I knew that wouldn't last long.
At one point, my mother went on one of her ranting modes and to our surprise
it was Christopher that spoke up and said his peace! A bit of a surprise.
Christopher's very talkative in the last year but still needed to come out of that
shell of expressing himself without anger and bitterness. He put us in tears!
He was honest and kind with his words when he told his grandparents this:
Grandma, try not to think of yourself so much when it comes to OUR lives. I love
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says to Christopher: how
so son? Christopher said because grandpa, when you are not selfish you find hap
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my family and I will be
happy in New Hampshire.
By now grandma breaks out in yet another rant of: see what you've done with
this kid? This is the first time I can honestly say Kimberly that you have
always been such a good (now I know where I got that nasty habit)! mother that I
am disappointed in you and the way you are letting this kid go wild. Blah,
blah, blah. I am so glad I am not my mother anymore!!!! Wild? From speaking his
mind in a very calm and sweet voice? I calmly explained to her that with those
words she not only insulted me as his mother but insulted him as her grandchild
and makes herself look foolish. What kind of close relationship is that? I
explained to her that we have changed and that we don't want to live life for
anyone else but ourselves. Nobody dictates our life to us anymore, time to
lighten up, relax and enjoy what we have and we are going with or without their
blessings.
Dad, who is really my step dad accepted this but said he was not happy we are
moving and that is okay with us. Mom on the other hand left the room and did
not return even when we were leaving. I on the other hand feel very refreshed
for some reason, not that I wanted for it to work out that way but I feel
happy. Strange. I guess I never realized how much DH or I have let our family
manipulate us. I guess we sort of let them know that they can be stiff and
materialistic all they want but we choose not to anymore.
We spent the rest of the day packing boxes and blasting music and singing as
loud as we could. Usually we are quiet for our snooty neighbors. What a good
time we had regardless of what has happened. Even DH was singing which was a
first. And Christopher, well he is just so happy. Made me to think how I must
put more trust in DH and DS but mostly myself to make the right decisions. All
is well, in this family at least.
Kim
Living Free In New Hampshire SOON!
advice and personal stories helped us tremendously especially Christopher. He read
every one of them.
We went to visit my parents and DH parents today for Father's Day. DH parents
were just plain cold towards us barely saying a word but we just kept on
smiling! My parents were very quiet but I knew that wouldn't last long.
At one point, my mother went on one of her ranting modes and to our surprise
it was Christopher that spoke up and said his peace! A bit of a surprise.
Christopher's very talkative in the last year but still needed to come out of that
shell of expressing himself without anger and bitterness. He put us in tears!
He was honest and kind with his words when he told his grandparents this:
Grandma, try not to think of yourself so much when it comes to OUR lives. I love
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says to Christopher: how
so son? Christopher said because grandpa, when you are not selfish you find hap
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my family and I will be
happy in New Hampshire.
By now grandma breaks out in yet another rant of: see what you've done with
this kid? This is the first time I can honestly say Kimberly that you have
always been such a good (now I know where I got that nasty habit)! mother that I
am disappointed in you and the way you are letting this kid go wild. Blah,
blah, blah. I am so glad I am not my mother anymore!!!! Wild? From speaking his
mind in a very calm and sweet voice? I calmly explained to her that with those
words she not only insulted me as his mother but insulted him as her grandchild
and makes herself look foolish. What kind of close relationship is that? I
explained to her that we have changed and that we don't want to live life for
anyone else but ourselves. Nobody dictates our life to us anymore, time to
lighten up, relax and enjoy what we have and we are going with or without their
blessings.
Dad, who is really my step dad accepted this but said he was not happy we are
moving and that is okay with us. Mom on the other hand left the room and did
not return even when we were leaving. I on the other hand feel very refreshed
for some reason, not that I wanted for it to work out that way but I feel
happy. Strange. I guess I never realized how much DH or I have let our family
manipulate us. I guess we sort of let them know that they can be stiff and
materialistic all they want but we choose not to anymore.
We spent the rest of the day packing boxes and blasting music and singing as
loud as we could. Usually we are quiet for our snooty neighbors. What a good
time we had regardless of what has happened. Even DH was singing which was a
first. And Christopher, well he is just so happy. Made me to think how I must
put more trust in DH and DS but mostly myself to make the right decisions. All
is well, in this family at least.
Kim
Living Free In New Hampshire SOON!
[email protected]
<<Just put that energy into packing and planning, and when you see them smile
really big, and if they're pissy back, put it in an imaginary jar of proof
that
it's really fine that you're going. Sandra>>
This is such a powerful statement to me. Thanks Sandra. The more we smiled
today, the more pissy they were but it made us (DH, DS and I) realize how much
they do try and control us and how mean they are being by not speaking with
Christopher. Needless to say I have more than enough proof that it is time to
leave and it makes me feel much better.
Kim
really big, and if they're pissy back, put it in an imaginary jar of proof
that
it's really fine that you're going. Sandra>>
This is such a powerful statement to me. Thanks Sandra. The more we smiled
today, the more pissy they were but it made us (DH, DS and I) realize how much
they do try and control us and how mean they are being by not speaking with
Christopher. Needless to say I have more than enough proof that it is time to
leave and it makes me feel much better.
Kim
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 7:33:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
It is extremely odd when you first get that sense of freedom from allowing
yourself to refuse being manipulated. Odd is not bad, just different. Good for
all of you for standing up for yourselves and your family as a unit. Please
give my kudos to Christopher too, for being strong enough to say what he thought
without being mean or cruel or hateful.
Good luck on the move!!!
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
> I on the other hand feel very refreshedCongrats Kim and family!!!
> for some reason, not that I wanted for it to work out that way but I feel
> happy. Strange. I guess I never realized how much DH or I have let our
> family
> manipulate us. I guess we sort of let them know that they can be stiff and
> materialistic all they want but we choose not to anymore.
>
It is extremely odd when you first get that sense of freedom from allowing
yourself to refuse being manipulated. Odd is not bad, just different. Good for
all of you for standing up for yourselves and your family as a unit. Please
give my kudos to Christopher too, for being strong enough to say what he thought
without being mean or cruel or hateful.
Good luck on the move!!!
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< Sorry, it seems I have still ranted, but I guess like always I had a lot
to
say. Hope it helps, good luck and best wishes!!!
Rhonda - father free, but much happier >>
Thank-you Rhonda for your story and words of encouragement.
Thank-you everyone that posted to us.
Rhonda your story struck home with me as I too had a dad I had to put out of
my life. It took many years to do that about 18 years old. I don't know if
he's alive or still in jail. Even though he abused me and raped me and my sister
all those years, I still put up with his manipulation in my life. Weird how I
was strong enough to open my mouth and have him put away and now I fear having
to do the same "standing up" with the manipulation that goes on now with my
family, I think you know what I mean. Maybe the fear of loosing another parent
had set me back. But what I want Christopher to experience and learn brings me
forward to move on thanks to all of your help. I'm so sorry to hear about
your situation and your health and I hope that you are doing well now.
Kim
to
say. Hope it helps, good luck and best wishes!!!
Rhonda - father free, but much happier >>
Thank-you Rhonda for your story and words of encouragement.
Thank-you everyone that posted to us.
Rhonda your story struck home with me as I too had a dad I had to put out of
my life. It took many years to do that about 18 years old. I don't know if
he's alive or still in jail. Even though he abused me and raped me and my sister
all those years, I still put up with his manipulation in my life. Weird how I
was strong enough to open my mouth and have him put away and now I fear having
to do the same "standing up" with the manipulation that goes on now with my
family, I think you know what I mean. Maybe the fear of loosing another parent
had set me back. But what I want Christopher to experience and learn brings me
forward to move on thanks to all of your help. I'm so sorry to hear about
your situation and your health and I hope that you are doing well now.
Kim
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 8:08:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
to a point where you decide even though you are willing to accept such
treatment, you will not allow it to happen to your own child, in any manner, degree
or otherwise. My father has never laid a hand on me, yet the damage he
inflicted on me and more so on my siblings, is almost immeasurable. Because no-one
can see the damage and so much is internalized, it wasn't until I was an adult
with a family of my own, away from my fathers clutches, that I discovered I
could live without him. Even as a newlywed, we lived down the street. After the
twins were born, we moved into the house across the street. As my DH started to
see that all our decisions were being made with my fathers influence, he
objected. I gave in a little, but just a little! We moved a mile away.LOL A year
later we moved an hour away. Slowly we broke free and my DH was ever so careful
about it. I love him for that alone when I sit and think about that. A lesser
man would probably just said, that's it, we're not living this way.
Ultimately he did say enough was enough, but he truly supported me throughout the whole
heartbreaking process.
I am glad discussing the manipulation factor helped you. I didn't know I had
so much to say about it. Funny how you start talking about one thing and
arrive to another. But I'm pretty sure the steps you all made today were huge and
when everyone lays their head down tonite, everyone will contemplate what
Christopher had to say and the loving way in which he said it. That says so much
for you as parents and also will require the grandparents to self reflect. I
think this was a great start on your road to happiness without manipulation. And
as far as your own mother goes, perhaps her hurtful words today were actually
more about herself than you. I'm sure your own painful childhood calls her own
parenting into question, so it's actually you who has the choice to cut her
slack or not. Even though she may have the world believe it is in the reverse.
Ultimately, you know you are a good mom and Christopher justifies that.
Blessings to your family.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
> Weird how IOh Kim, I am so sorry for your pain. Both then and now. I think you just get
> was strong enough to open my mouth and have him put away and now I fear
> having
> to do the same "standing up" with the manipulation that goes on now with my
> family, I think you know what I mean. Maybe the fear of loosing another
> parent
> had set me back. But what I want Christopher to experience and learn brings
> me
> forward to move on thanks to all of your help. I'm so sorry to hear about
> your situation and your health and I hope that you are doing well now.
>
> Kim
>
to a point where you decide even though you are willing to accept such
treatment, you will not allow it to happen to your own child, in any manner, degree
or otherwise. My father has never laid a hand on me, yet the damage he
inflicted on me and more so on my siblings, is almost immeasurable. Because no-one
can see the damage and so much is internalized, it wasn't until I was an adult
with a family of my own, away from my fathers clutches, that I discovered I
could live without him. Even as a newlywed, we lived down the street. After the
twins were born, we moved into the house across the street. As my DH started to
see that all our decisions were being made with my fathers influence, he
objected. I gave in a little, but just a little! We moved a mile away.LOL A year
later we moved an hour away. Slowly we broke free and my DH was ever so careful
about it. I love him for that alone when I sit and think about that. A lesser
man would probably just said, that's it, we're not living this way.
Ultimately he did say enough was enough, but he truly supported me throughout the whole
heartbreaking process.
I am glad discussing the manipulation factor helped you. I didn't know I had
so much to say about it. Funny how you start talking about one thing and
arrive to another. But I'm pretty sure the steps you all made today were huge and
when everyone lays their head down tonite, everyone will contemplate what
Christopher had to say and the loving way in which he said it. That says so much
for you as parents and also will require the grandparents to self reflect. I
think this was a great start on your road to happiness without manipulation. And
as far as your own mother goes, perhaps her hurtful words today were actually
more about herself than you. I'm sure your own painful childhood calls her own
parenting into question, so it's actually you who has the choice to cut her
slack or not. Even though she may have the world believe it is in the reverse.
Ultimately, you know you are a good mom and Christopher justifies that.
Blessings to your family.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Linda Siemsen
Thanks for posting this. It's so much like my family. I am glad that I am reaching for my own dreams now and not theirs.
By the way, my family always thought I was mentally ill when I disagreed with them. "Linda has problems you know. You can't listen to her when she's like this."
By the way, my family always thought I was mentally ill when I disagreed with them. "Linda has problems you know. You can't listen to her when she's like this."
----- Original Message -----
From: HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:31 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Re: Advice Needed Please, Sandra & Others..Long
By now grandma breaks out in yet another rant of: see what you've done with
this kid? This is the first time I can honestly say Kimberly that you have
always been such a good (now I know where I got that nasty habit)! mother that I
am disappointed in you and the way you are letting this kid go wild. Blah,
blah, blah. I am so glad I am not my mother anymore!!!! Wild? From speaking his
mind in a very calm and sweet voice? I calmly explained to her that with those
words she not only insulted me as his mother but insulted him as her grandchild
and makes herself look foolish. What kind of close relationship is that? I
explained to her that we have changed and that we don't want to live life for
anyone else but ourselves. Nobody dictates our life to us anymore, time to
lighten up, relax and enjoy what we have and we are going with or without their
blessings.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 8:33:41 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< He put us in tears!
He was honest and kind with his words when he told his grandparents this:
Grandma, try not to think of yourself so much when it comes to OUR lives. I
love
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says to Christopher: how
so son? Christopher said because grandpa, when you are not selfish you find
hap
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my family and I will be
happy in New Hampshire.
Forget the grandparents. Follow CHRISTOPHER around. He's wise and
courageous.
Sandra
<< He put us in tears!
He was honest and kind with his words when he told his grandparents this:
Grandma, try not to think of yourself so much when it comes to OUR lives. I
love
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says to Christopher: how
so son? Christopher said because grandpa, when you are not selfish you find
hap
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my family and I will be
happy in New Hampshire.
>>WOW.
Forget the grandparents. Follow CHRISTOPHER around. He's wise and
courageous.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/2003 12:27:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< He
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my
Thats Awesome!
He will be New Hampshire is a great place to live.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
>In a message dated 6/15/03 8:33:41 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< He
> put us in tears!He was honest and kind with his words when he told his
> grandparents this:Grandma, try not to think of yourself so much when it comes to
> OUR lives. Ilove
you guys so much but you are being selfish. Grandpa says
> to Christopher: howso son? Christopher said because grandpa, when you are not
> selfish you findhap
piness in what makes your kids happy. I am happy with my
> family and I will behappy in New Hampshire. >>>>
Thats Awesome!
He will be New Hampshire is a great place to live.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 9:09:41 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< Weird how I
was strong enough to open my mouth and have him put away and now I fear
having
to do the same "standing up" with the manipulation that goes on now with my
family, I think you know what I mean. Maybe the fear of loosing another
parent
had set me back. >>
Maybe the contrast between sexual/physical abuse and "just" emotional stuff
made theirs seem benign, kind, LEGAL, and so you were overlooking it because
physically it was safe??
First guess; might be wrong.
Sandra
<< Weird how I
was strong enough to open my mouth and have him put away and now I fear
having
to do the same "standing up" with the manipulation that goes on now with my
family, I think you know what I mean. Maybe the fear of loosing another
parent
had set me back. >>
Maybe the contrast between sexual/physical abuse and "just" emotional stuff
made theirs seem benign, kind, LEGAL, and so you were overlooking it because
physically it was safe??
First guess; might be wrong.
Sandra
[email protected]
Damn you're good Sandra <g> I thought a lot about what you said and you are
so right.
Mom called this morning and asked what we were doing. I told her we were
packing things up in the house. She said, why are you so f'n happy? So, yes we
have overlooked a lot over the years. This is the way she has always talked to
all of us even DH. A matter of fact both DH family and my entire family act like
this. It amazes us now that we have turned over a new leaf just how much and
how unhealthy all this emotional garbage is.
Thanks for your wisdom!
Kim Who feels safer in the woods right now!
<<Maybe the fear of loosing another parent had set me back. >>
Maybe the contrast between sexual/physical abuse and "just" emotional stuff
made theirs seem benign, kind, LEGAL, and so you were overlooking it because
physically it was safe??
First guess; might be wrong.
Sandra
so right.
Mom called this morning and asked what we were doing. I told her we were
packing things up in the house. She said, why are you so f'n happy? So, yes we
have overlooked a lot over the years. This is the way she has always talked to
all of us even DH. A matter of fact both DH family and my entire family act like
this. It amazes us now that we have turned over a new leaf just how much and
how unhealthy all this emotional garbage is.
Thanks for your wisdom!
Kim Who feels safer in the woods right now!
<<Maybe the fear of loosing another parent had set me back. >>
Maybe the contrast between sexual/physical abuse and "just" emotional stuff
made theirs seem benign, kind, LEGAL, and so you were overlooking it because
physically it was safe??
First guess; might be wrong.
Sandra
[email protected]
<<Where in NH are you moving, and from where? Kathryn>>
We are moving to the beautiful White Mountain region of New Hampshire from
Connecticut.
Kim
We are moving to the beautiful White Mountain region of New Hampshire from
Connecticut.
Kim
[email protected]
Thank-you Rhonda! We are so very happy, feel like we are starting life all
over again.
Christopher read what you said and says thank-you. He actually has seen such
dramatic changes in us that he wanted to start reading from this list also. He
has grown and learned so much from everyone here & unschooling it is amazing!
I think that's what the family also doesn't like is change. They comment on
that a lot. Maybe it's something THEY should do.
Kim
Congrats Kim and family!!!
It is extremely odd when you first get that sense of freedom from allowing
yourself to refuse being manipulated. Odd is not bad, just different. Good
for
all of you for standing up for yourselves and your family as a unit. Please
give my kudos to Christopher too, for being strong enough to say what he
thought
without being mean or cruel or hateful.
Good luck on the move!!!
Rhonda
over again.
Christopher read what you said and says thank-you. He actually has seen such
dramatic changes in us that he wanted to start reading from this list also. He
has grown and learned so much from everyone here & unschooling it is amazing!
I think that's what the family also doesn't like is change. They comment on
that a lot. Maybe it's something THEY should do.
Kim
Congrats Kim and family!!!
It is extremely odd when you first get that sense of freedom from allowing
yourself to refuse being manipulated. Odd is not bad, just different. Good
for
all of you for standing up for yourselves and your family as a unit. Please
give my kudos to Christopher too, for being strong enough to say what he
thought
without being mean or cruel or hateful.
Good luck on the move!!!
Rhonda
[email protected]
<<That says so much for you as parents and also will require the grandparents
to self reflect.>>
So true Rhonda! Just as unschooling and this list has required us to self
reflect.
<<Ultimately, you know you are a good mom and Christopher justifies that.>>
Thanks so much for saying this! When we started unschooling and this list
there was a lot of doubt if we were doing the right thing or not but just
listening and watching Christopher and seeing how he has changed and what he has
become wipes all that doubt away. We really do feel like wonderful parents now and
it truly does show in our son. I wouldn't give that up for anything in the
world!
Kim
to self reflect.>>
So true Rhonda! Just as unschooling and this list has required us to self
reflect.
<<Ultimately, you know you are a good mom and Christopher justifies that.>>
Thanks so much for saying this! When we started unschooling and this list
there was a lot of doubt if we were doing the right thing or not but just
listening and watching Christopher and seeing how he has changed and what he has
become wipes all that doubt away. We really do feel like wonderful parents now and
it truly does show in our son. I wouldn't give that up for anything in the
world!
Kim
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/03 4:57:06 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< She said, why are you so f'n happy? >>
And did you say "Why are you so f'n unhappy and abusive?"
<< She said, why are you so f'n happy? >>
And did you say "Why are you so f'n unhappy and abusive?"
[email protected]
<<And did you say "Why are you so f'n unhappy and abusive?">>
No, actually Sandra I hung up on her. I know it probably wasn't the best
thing to do and doesn't show much maturity on my part BUT it felt so good<g> I
just was in no mood to listen to her.
I think if I were to tell her that she was being abusive she would slap me
clear across the state. But I do realize that the day is coming were I have to
stand up to her. I'm getting there....slowly.
Kim
No, actually Sandra I hung up on her. I know it probably wasn't the best
thing to do and doesn't show much maturity on my part BUT it felt so good<g> I
just was in no mood to listen to her.
I think if I were to tell her that she was being abusive she would slap me
clear across the state. But I do realize that the day is coming were I have to
stand up to her. I'm getting there....slowly.
Kim
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/03 10:22:21 PM, HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@... writes:
<< I think if I were to tell her that she was being abusive she would slap me
clear across the state. >>
MAYBE you should write her a little note and say something like that.
You could say hanging up wasn't so nice, but if you had stayed on and asked
why she was so unhappy and abusive, you're afraid she would have slapped you
clear across the state, which made you think "Yeah! Abusive!"
<g>
Sandra
<< I think if I were to tell her that she was being abusive she would slap me
clear across the state. >>
MAYBE you should write her a little note and say something like that.
You could say hanging up wasn't so nice, but if you had stayed on and asked
why she was so unhappy and abusive, you're afraid she would have slapped you
clear across the state, which made you think "Yeah! Abusive!"
<g>
Sandra