[email protected]

Who put the poll up about dates for a New England conference? If it was
Kathryn, that's fine.

If it's anyone else, Kathryn says she wants to do it in August, and if she's
doing it, she can do it when she wants to.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/2003 11:18:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

> Who put the poll up about dates for a New England conference? If it was
> Kathryn, that's fine.
>
> If it's anyone else, Kathryn says she wants to do it in August, and if she's
>
> doing it, she can do it when she wants to.
>
>

I put it up, because I only want to do this if people will actually COME, and
I was getting LOTS of e-mails from people (as I said, some not very nice)
saying they wouldn't if it were in August.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Kathyrn,

I CANNOT believe people would be sending rude emails about the time
of conference. We talk about mutual respect here and such behavior
goes against the principles we are raising our children with. I am
so sorry to hear about your problems with it. I read and completely
understood your choice of time. The reality is, NO time will work
for all of us. Good luck planning and I am sure it will really be
appreciated by those that can attend. You are making a wonderful
contribution to everyone here, and I just want to tell you I
appreciate and respect it. I, for one, would be SCARED to death to
take on that challange. I am way down in Florida, and have no idea
if I can attend but if you think I could be of some help planning
than feel free to drop me a line.

Olga :)



>
> I put it up, because I only want to do this if people will actually
COME, and
> I was getting LOTS of e-mails from people (as I said, some not very
nice)
> saying they wouldn't if it were in August.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> >I put it up, because I only want to do this if people will actually
> COME, and
> >I was getting LOTS of e-mails from people (as I said, some not very
> nice)
> >saying they wouldn't if it were in August.
>

Kathryn,

I think you are awesome to even attempt such a feat. I, like Olga, am shocked
that anyone would have the audacity to be anything but nice to you. I am
willing to go anywhere to finally see everyone. Unfortunately, I can't make this
years conference, so I was thrilled at the prospect of next years conference
getting underway, in hopes that I could begin to plan now. Of course there are
dates that don't work for everyone, but I think the date most definately has to
work for the planner.

Good luck and thank you in advance.

Rhonda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 06/11/2003 12:52:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom/surveys?id=1106896
>
>

Hi --

I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far are from
NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more
knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn to unschooling than
other personality types? Could someone please expand on this?

Laura B.
-- if this has been asked and answered already I apologize...I'm still 387
messages behind :-(


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
LauraBourdo@a... wrote:

>
> I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far
are from
> NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the
more
> knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be
more drawn to unschooling than
> other personality types? Could someone please expand on
this?
>
> Laura B.

Me, me! I'll share my best guesses and thoughts.

NFs tend to be the most empathic of the temperaments. They
focus on the feelings and needs of people primarily (over
organizations, institutions and duties—iow, probably a lot fewer
NFs in the military, for instance! LOL).

NFs make great therapists, counselors, sales people, actors
(ability to recreate other people's characters and emotions
accurately) writers, missionaries, martyrs, teachers, and any of
the helping professions. They feel most right with the world
when they have understood someone else (and how he/she
thinks and feels) and can respond to that person's inner life.

Unschooling focuses on the needs of the individual—we say
who the child is and how he/she interacts with the world is of
primary importance. We are also driven to see congruency
between what people say they feel/believe and what they do. If an
NF watches a child suffer through "school work," the NF is more
likely to ask "Why is my child suffering? How can I relieve it?
What is wrong with this situation that it is troubling my child?" An
NF doesn't hold a curricula or method as the supreme good to
be adjusted to. And NFs tend to be people pleasers.

How this works in unschooling may be like this:

Child A is showing signs of boredom, distress or lethargy in the
use of "X" curricula. An NF mother will be more interested in what
the child is expressing and meeting that need/feeling than she is
in fulfilling the "supposed requirement." That means NFs are
quick to switch curricula, to dump expectations, to find
alternatives so that child A will feel happier, more at peace.

Because an NF trusts to her own intuition, she's also less
worried about outward manifestations/measurements of her
children and relies on her ability to perceive. She will "know" that
her child is fine, but may not be able to rpove it to someone who
is more measurement oriented.

Many NFs tend to be frustrated by test-taking, requirements,
rules, organizational expectations and schedules. They need to
see meaning in what they do to commit to it. They are driven by
the quest for meaning more than any other drive. Parenting is a
powerful vehicle for discovering meaning and therefore, putting a
child's emotional and mental well-being first is enormously
satisfying for the NF mother.

NFs also tend to be excellent parents in terms of their abilities to
hear their children, empathize and exhibit genuine caring. They
stay truly interested in who their children actually are rather than
being worried primarily about who they might become. NFs also
love a good cause and will fight against the traditional forces that
be to see to it that their cause is well-represented!

I see unschooling as offering an NF a framework for focusing on
the child, meeting her needs at a primary level and giving the NF
mother the freedom to chuck obligations that don't make sense
to her. I also see unschooling being a good cause for the NF to
stand for and champion.

Ironically, many NFs are drawn to teaching as a profession. But
NFs don't thrive in the school system. They are there for the
people orientation and generally NFs burn out in the schools
and tend to leave or move on more than any other temperament.
They don't like beauracracy at all and happily buck the system in
favor of people concerns which then gets them in trouble.

These are just some of the things I've gleaned from my amateur
investigation into temperaments (another typical NF hobby. <g>)

Julie B—the cause-loving, people centered ENFP

moonstarshooter

> Hi --
>
> I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far
are from
> NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more
> knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn
to unschooling than
> other personality types? Could someone please expand on this?
>
> Laura B.


Here is a description of the middle two quailities that I think help
expalin it:


*****Sensing (S)- Preference for taking in information through the
five senses and noticing what is actual.

Intuition (N)- Preference for taking in information through a "sixth
sense" and noticing what might be. ******

It would seem to me that people who are heavily S may never actually
consider or question the actuality of sending kids to school, or in
this sense, not doing "school at home." Maybe they are more the type
to "go with the flow" because that is just the way it is done instead
of thinking about the fact that there may be other ways to do
things. (Obviously this does not apply to ALL people, otherwise
there would be not be any S's on this group. :)


******Thinking (T)- Preference for organizing and structuring
information to decide in a logical, objective way.

Feeling (F)- Preference for organizing and structuring information to
decide in a personal, value-oriented way. ******

I think it is pretty obvious that the unschooling lifestyle would
appeal more to the F's than to T's. T's would be more drawn (again,
typically, not always) to school at home. Grades, workbooks, etc,
are all very logical and objective and appealing to T's.

F's are more likely to look at what is important to their family
(personal, value-oriented) and less at what some publisher thinks
their children should know.

I think it is interesting that of all the responses (still only a
very small percentage of members of this group) 26 of 32 were N's.
There were only 6 S's, and of those, only two ST's.

I am an NT, but I am strongly N and moderately T. The "intuitive"
side is what I contribute to my ability to consider unschooling.
Then I used my "thinking" quality to objectively and logically
research it and was able to intellectually believe its validity.

I am curious about how some of the ST's come to unschooling. I
wonder if it is due to them seeing that it is what their child needs,
as opposed to what may have initially felt right to them. I started
with school at home, but it always felt so fake. (The whole 2 months
that I did it ;) Living life feels so right.

Anyway, I just find the whole MB types discussion fascinating.
Tory

[email protected]

I love at NF's are about "emergence" or "becoming." They ware never ever finished with growing personaaly or professionally. They don't measure the world or themselves with numbers, but with exploration of new territory.

But it also makes us HARD to understand by non-NFs, even our spouses. They all use a common measuring device and can interpret each other with it. NT's and SF's can converse because they share the outer world. Not us NFs.

So no wonder we pick unschooling - we are and the kids are "emerging!"

My (NF) thots
Tim



>>>NFs tend to be the most empathic of the temperaments. They
focus on the feelings and needs of people primarily (over
organizations, institutions and duties?iow, probably a lot fewer
NFs in the military, for instance! LOL).

NFs make great therapists, counselors, sales people, actors
(ability to recreate other people's characters and emotions
accurately) writers, missionaries, martyrs, teachers, and any of
the helping professions. They feel most right with the world
when they have understood someone else (and how he/she
thinks and feels) and can respond to that person's


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/15/03 10:52:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
julie@... writes:

> Because an NF trusts to her own intuition, she's also less
> worried about outward manifestations/measurements of her
> children and relies on her ability to perceive. She will "know" that
> her child is fine, but may not be able to rpove it to someone who
> is more measurement oriented.
>

Kudos Julie B!!!!

This whole response was so well written, thank you for sharing it. This
paragraph in particular, hit a nerve of mine. When Kass & Kree were in the last
class in which they attended school, at parent teacher conference, their teacher
went on and on about Kree's inability to complete the timed multiplication
quizes. She had gone so far as to give her a "D" on her report card. Kree sat
with me in tears and was basically falling apart as the teacher went on and on
about the importance of knowing these tables. So, being my usual self, I turned
to Kree. "Honey, please don't cry. If you want to work on them at home I will
help you."

Ms. White chimed in with, "Kree, you are very lucky to have a mom who is so
understanding. Mrs. Hill you wouldn't believe how many parents I get who would
punish their kids for what I just told you."

Knowing this woman enough to know she was trying to tell me I should be more
upset and consider punishment, I turned back to Kree. "But if you just aren't
ready, that's ok too, because these grades mean nothing."

Ms. White's eyebrows rose and she asked Kree to leave so we could "talk". I
said, "No, this is Kree's education, so it's important that she know where we
each stand. And from where I stand, you haven't done such a hot job. If, in
fact, these timed quizzes have been something Kree has been having difficulty
with, why would you wait until now, at report card time to tell me about it. You
are well aware of how much time I spend with the girls and with the amount of
homework you send home, I wonder what it is you do all day in class.
Therefore, to assume I would be upset in any way with my child, you go too far in your
assumptions. I don't blame her for not doing well on your silly quizzes, but I
do blame you for putting far too much importance on such a trivial thing. So
I will work on them with her, if she wants to, but if she has been too
traumatized by the whole thing, why would I further traumatize her at home?"

Her answer: "Because if she doesn't get them down, she will be held back."

I was shocked. "Over the ability to quickly state times tables, you would
risk a childs psyche and love of learning? Not the fact that she knows them, but
that she isn't fast enough to write them? How pathetic is that?" With that I
asked Kree to get her sister from the swings just outside of their classroom.
My question was retorical, so when she began to answer, she got the 'talk to
the hand sign, cuz these ears aren't listening' sign.

Huh!!! It was the following week I took them out of school to live a life of
peace and joy.

Rhonda - the ranting ENFP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far are
from

NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more

knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn to
unschooling than other personality types? Could someone please expand on this?**

Maybe they're not. Maybe NF's are slightly more likely to answer polls. Maybe
they're more likely to take personality quizzes. Maybe they're more likely to
want to compare and contrast with others. Maybe it's just coincidence. :) Be
careful about drawing conclusions from inadaquete data and unrepresentative
samples.

Deborah

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
"moonstarshooter" <torywalk@t...> wrote:

>
> I am an NT, but I am strongly N and moderately T. The
"intuitive"
> side is what I contribute to my ability to consider unschooling.
> Then I used my "thinking" quality to objectively and logically
> research it and was able to intellectually believe its validity.
>
> I am curious about how some of the ST's come to
unschooling. I
> wonder if it is due to them seeing that it is what their child
needs,
> as opposed to what may have initially felt right to them. I
started
> with school at home, but it always felt so fake. (The whole 2
months
> that I did it ;) Living life feels so right.
>
> Anyway, I just find the whole MB types discussion fascinating.
> Tory

Tory, NTs can't be bothered with systems for systems' sake.
They thrive when they are learning new skills, thinking new
thoughts and chewing on new ideas. NTs are best thought of as
tinkerers. They catch a vision for a new approach to something
and will endlessly fiddle with it to get it to work.

NTPs are ever adapting and learning new skills. They love the
challenge of adding to their abilities and are the most
unitimidated of all the types when facing something new. They
are amazingly good at improvising and adapting and run with a
rought draft, eschewing the painstaking tedium of drawing up
plans. ENTPs are verbally adept and love word play and
conversations. (Typically NTs are college professors or
scientists and often hated high school because it was drudgery
and not challenging or creative intellectually enough.)

NTJs are equally taken with ideas but are more interested in
finding exact systems that work. They like to be in control and to
find ways to achieve the end result that works—very comfortable
delegating and enrolling people in their pet projects and
ventures. Don't BS the NTJ. They must have a system that works
and aren't interested in anything for the sake of tradition or
institutional regulation. (Notice that theme!!)

Unschooling is an endless opportunity to tinker, to plan and
execute, to creatively problem-solve, to learn new skills and
ideas. And it's a place where what works is top priority, not what
is expected. That appeals to NTs very much. NTs are also
egalitarian in their approach to others. They aren't impressed
with credentials and are just as likely to chat intelligently and
non-judgmentally with children (as though they were adults) as
they are to look down on an esteemed adult who is
small-minded. They have little patience for pecking orders.

One thing I've noticed (being an ENFP married to an ENTP) is
that while I approach life from figuring out people and how to
enhance relationships, my dh is drawn to ideas and skills that
make life work. Together, we have a really good management
team approach to family life. I focus on drawing out the feelings,
on nurturing the relationships, on creating an atmostphere of
love and learning while he is ever on the look out for effective
models of communication, tools to enhance someone's interest
in a specialized area and finding games and activities that bring
us together. When we're clicking, it's a beautiful thing.

But we definitely also have conflicts. These generally come from
my profound attachment to protecting my kids from pain and his
need to see results. I've had to learn how to adapt to seeing the
world through his eyes and he's had to learn to see through my
heart. It's been a good education for both of us.

And he is a part-time college professor, too, which helps with
unschooling since he thinks school is a total waste of time. He
has daily proof with his (as he calls them) "braindead" freshman
students! <bg>

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/15/03 12:13:20 PM, torywalk@... writes:

<< > I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far

are from

> NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more

> knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn

to unschooling than

> other personality types? >>

Maybe they're more drawn to being polled. <g>
I already don't remember what my letters were and I didn't go to the poll.

Sandra

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], dacunefare@a...
wrote:
> **I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so
far are
> from
>
> NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the
more
>
> knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be
more drawn to
> unschooling than other personality types? Could someone
please expand on this?**
>
> Maybe they're not. Maybe NF's are slightly more likely to answer
polls. Maybe
> they're more likely to take personality quizzes. Maybe they're
more likely to
> want to compare and contrast with others. Maybe it's just
coincidence. :) Be
> careful about drawing conclusions from inadaquete data and
unrepresentative
> samples.
>
> Deborah

ROFL!!!! No way are you an NF, Deborah. :) That thinking would
*never* have occurred to me.

Julie

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/15/03 1:30:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more
>
> >knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn
>
> to unschooling than
>
> >other personality types? >>
>
> Maybe they're more drawn to being polled. <g>
> I already don't remember what my letters were and I didn't go to the poll.
>
> Sandra
>

hehehe, with fibrofog, by the time I finished the quiz and went to log on for
the poll, I forgot what my letter were. I hit my back button to see again,
then thought, oh screw it I hate polls anyway. It took me forever to decide if I
would bother to take the quiz. The only reason I now know that the one time I
took the quiz, I registered as an ENFP is because when I hit the back button,
I wrote it down. In case I ever felt like taking it again, I wanted to
compare what my outcome was next time. Needless to say I never took the poll.

Rhonda - the supposed ENFP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim and Maureen

Oh-My-Gawd!

Mrs. White should be slapped silly. 'Cause she needs a lil silly in her life! Congrat's on leading the charge in bringing the world back to sanity!

Oh, and see my rant (10 minutes ago) on scientific method - I could have included this as the case against metric-ing kids!!!!!

My (glad-you-are-all-here-too & ENFP) thots

Tim T


When Kass & Kree were in the last
class in which they attended school, at parent teacher conference, their teacher
went on and on about Kree's inability to complete the timed multiplication
quizes. She had gone so far as to give her a "D" on her report card. Kree sat
with me in tears and was basically falling apart as the teacher went on and on
about the importance of knowing these tables. So, being my usual self, I turned
to Kree. "Honey, please don't cry. If you want to work on them at home I will
help you."

Ms. White chimed in with, "Kree, you are very lucky to have a mom who is so
understanding. Mrs. Hill you wouldn't believe how many parents I get who would
punish their kids for what I just told you."

Knowing this woman enough to know she was trying to tell me I should be more
upset and consider punishment, I turned back to Kree. "But if you just aren't
ready, that's ok too, because these grades mean nothing."

Ms. White's eyebrows rose and she asked Kree to leave so we could "talk". I
said, "No, this is Kree's education, so it's important that she know where we
each stand. And from where I stand, you haven't done such a hot job. If, in
fact, these timed quizzes have been something Kree has been having difficulty
with, why would you wait until now, at report card time to tell me about it. You
are well aware of how much time I spend with the girls and with the amount of
homework you send home, I wonder what it is you do all day in class.
Therefore, to assume I would be upset in any way with my child, you go too far in your
assumptions. I don't blame her for not doing well on your silly quizzes, but I
do blame you for putting far too much importance on such a trivial thing. So
I will work on them with her, if she wants to, but if she has been too
traumatized by the whole thing, why would I further traumatize her at home?"

Her answer: "Because if she doesn't get them down, she will be held back."

I was shocked. "Over the ability to quickly state times tables, you would
risk a childs psyche and love of learning? Not the fact that she knows them, but
that she isn't fast enough to write them? How pathetic is that?" With that I
asked Kree to get her sister from the swings just outside of their classroom.
My question was retorical, so when she began to answer, she got the 'talk to
the hand sign, cuz these ears aren't listening' sign.

Huh!!! It was the following week I took them out of school to live a life of
peace and joy.

Rhonda - the ranting ENFP


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/15/03 4:33:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tmthomas@...
writes:

> Mrs. White should be slapped silly. 'Cause she needs a lil silly in her
> life! Congrat's on leading the charge in bringing the world back to sanity!
>
> Oh, and see my rant (10 minutes ago) on scientific method - I could have
> included this as the case against metric-ing kids!!!!!
>
> My (glad-you-are-all-here-too &ENFP) thots
>
> Tim T
>

Tim,

I love your thots!!! I did just read your rant and have to say with my health
path the number of quacks I've been "examined" by is probably infinate, if I
made a mathmatical statistic. Hey maybe then you could add it to that
scientific method!!! LOL

Rhonda - Who very much had to maintain composure, so as not to knock Ms.
White on her rooty pooty a$$. All the silly in the world wouldn't have made this
chick compassionate.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea

At 06:02 PM 6/15/03 +0000, Tory wrote:
>*****Sensing (S)- Preference for taking in information through the
>five senses and noticing what is actual.
>
>Intuition (N)- Preference for taking in information through a "sixth
>sense" and noticing what might be. ******
>
>It would seem to me that people who are heavily S may never actually
>consider or question the actuality of sending kids to school, or in
>this sense, not doing "school at home." Maybe they are more the type
>to "go with the flow" because that is just the way it is done instead
>of thinking about the fact that there may be other ways to do
>things. (Obviously this does not apply to ALL people, otherwise
>there would be not be any S's on this group. :)

Well, this doesn't make any sense to me, being an S. I have taken in with
my senses the information available to me and found the results (children
going to school) illogical. I don't see why an S would be less likely to
unschool than an N.

>******Thinking (T)- Preference for organizing and structuring
>information to decide in a logical, objective way.
>
>Feeling (F)- Preference for organizing and structuring information to
>decide in a personal, value-oriented way. ******
>
>I think it is pretty obvious that the unschooling lifestyle would
>appeal more to the F's than to T's. T's would be more drawn (again,
>typically, not always) to school at home. Grades, workbooks, etc,
>are all very logical and objective and appealing to T's.

Gee, school prevented me from organizing information in a way that was
logical to me. My child who is similar to me has never been to school and
is the most vehement about never going to school. I found very little logic
or objectivity during my schooling.

>I am curious about how some of the ST's come to unschooling. I
>wonder if it is due to them seeing that it is what their child needs,
>as opposed to what may have initially felt right to them.

Although the summary of the ISTJ personality type says we are the most
conservative and likely to support existing structures (school, church,
etc.) I didn't think this was necessarily so from the questions asked in
the test. With unschooling we are looking at a whole new way of living and
I don't see why every personality type wouldn't be drawn to it, given the
right information and the opportunity.

Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia

Andrea

At 03:06 PM 6/15/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe they're not. Maybe NF's are slightly more likely to answer polls. Maybe
>they're more likely to take personality quizzes. Maybe they're more likely to
>want to compare and contrast with others. Maybe it's just coincidence. :) Be
>careful about drawing conclusions from inadaquete data and unrepresentative
>samples.
>
>Deborah

Now that is a response I like! I've always got all those maybes. I am
introverted but like that when I work on ideas with others they give me so
many more maybes to consider, maybes I would never have thought of.

Donna Andrea

moonstarshooter

--- In [email protected], Andrea <andrea@n...> wrote:

> Well, this doesn't make any sense to me, being an S. I have taken
in with
> my senses the information available to me and found the results
(children
> going to school) illogical. I don't see why an S would be less
likely to
> unschool than an N.

If the S personality type (or maybe more accurately, the ST type) are
*typically* the ones who do well in and like school, it would seem
they would also be less likely to question the need for it. If my
daughter had always done well and had no problems with cow milk, if I
liked cow milk and never had any problem with it, I
may never have looked into soy or rice milk.

My sister is a very
school-loving ST. Someone once asked her why she didn't homeschool
her boys. Her answer was, "Why should I?" (rhetorical question, she
was not actually looking for an answer.) We can all sit here and
think of many reasons why she should, but since it worked for her, it
seemed to be working for her kids, and it fit her lifestyle, she felt
no need to consider doing anything BUT school.


> Gee, school prevented me from organizing information in a way that
was
> logical to me. My child who is similar to me has never been to
school and
> is the most vehement about never going to school. I found very
little logic
> or objectivity during my schooling.

The form of the word "objective" that I understood the description to
mean was, for example, multiple choice or true/false tests. Tests
where the answers were either right or wrong. (As opposed to essay
questions that are more subjective.) At least in most of my school
years that was what I encountered. That is also what the majority of
the school-at-homers that I know crave. Workbooks with red marks for
wrong answers. (Again, a generalization, no single description is
going to fit every person of a certain MB type. After all, MBTI
tries to group all the people in the world into 16 categories, surely
not every person will completely jive with every portion of the
description.)


> Although the summary of the ISTJ personality type says we are the
most
> conservative and likely to support existing structures (school,
church,
> etc.)

From all the summaries I have read of the ST personality, that seems
to be a common denominator. But everyone has different levels of
their preference (hence the "wimpy" vs. "balanced" discussion.) Some
are extreme ST's and others are more middle of the road. Maybe it
is the extreme ST that this would be mostly refering to? In looking
at the people in my life who are ST, I find it to be true.


> With unschooling we are looking at a whole new way of living and
> I don't see why every personality type wouldn't be drawn to it,
given the
> right information and the opportunity.

I believe that there are people within every personality type who
would be drawn to unschooling. I don't belive that every person of
every personality type would be drawn to it.

I believe that there are many people who, for various reasons, would
not be drawn to the unschooling lifestyle, no matter how well it
was explained or demonstrated to them. I don't know that they could
be easily grouped into a category or type, however.

Tory

Have A Nice Day!

I just did the test and I'm an ESTJ.

Go figure.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: New poll for Unschooling-dotcom



In a message dated 6/15/03 12:13:20 PM, torywalk@... writes:

<< > I just voted on the poll and noticed that 22 of the 31 votes so far

are from

> NFs. (I'm an INFJ.) I've seen this mentioned briefly by the more

> knowledgeable here among us. Why would NFs tend to be more drawn

to unschooling than

> other personality types? >>

Maybe they're more drawn to being polled. <g>
I already don't remember what my letters were and I didn't go to the poll.

Sandra

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have A Nice Day!

There is a flaw in the test.

It asks a yes or no question, but doesn't let you know there is another option below in a similar question. Its a set up LOL! I ended up contradicting myself in the last half of the test.

I'm an ESTJ according to the test and I came to unschooling because I'm also a realist and a cynic. I question EVERYTHING.

And I'm an activist for change, so i'm not even really a "rule follower, supervisor/guardian type" like the test suggests.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: New poll for Unschooling-dotcom


At 06:02 PM 6/15/03 +0000, Tory wrote:
>*****Sensing (S)- Preference for taking in information through the
>five senses and noticing what is actual.
>
>Intuition (N)- Preference for taking in information through a "sixth
>sense" and noticing what might be. ******
>
>It would seem to me that people who are heavily S may never actually
>consider or question the actuality of sending kids to school, or in
>this sense, not doing "school at home." Maybe they are more the type
>to "go with the flow" because that is just the way it is done instead
>of thinking about the fact that there may be other ways to do
>things. (Obviously this does not apply to ALL people, otherwise
>there would be not be any S's on this group. :)

Well, this doesn't make any sense to me, being an S. I have taken in with
my senses the information available to me and found the results (children
going to school) illogical. I don't see why an S would be less likely to
unschool than an N.

>******Thinking (T)- Preference for organizing and structuring
>information to decide in a logical, objective way.
>
>Feeling (F)- Preference for organizing and structuring information to
>decide in a personal, value-oriented way. ******
>
>I think it is pretty obvious that the unschooling lifestyle would
>appeal more to the F's than to T's. T's would be more drawn (again,
>typically, not always) to school at home. Grades, workbooks, etc,
>are all very logical and objective and appealing to T's.

Gee, school prevented me from organizing information in a way that was
logical to me. My child who is similar to me has never been to school and
is the most vehement about never going to school. I found very little logic
or objectivity during my schooling.

>I am curious about how some of the ST's come to unschooling. I
>wonder if it is due to them seeing that it is what their child needs,
>as opposed to what may have initially felt right to them.

Although the summary of the ISTJ personality type says we are the most
conservative and likely to support existing structures (school, church,
etc.) I didn't think this was necessarily so from the questions asked in
the test. With unschooling we are looking at a whole new way of living and
I don't see why every personality type wouldn't be drawn to it, given the
right information and the opportunity.

Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fausey-Khosraviani

The real test takes about an hour to complete. I wonder if this does the real same job. The questions in the other test seem to repeat over and over again, but I think there is a point to it.

Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Have A Nice Day!
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: New poll for Unschooling-dotcom


There is a flaw in the test.

It asks a yes or no question, but doesn't let you know there is another option below in a similar question. Its a set up LOL! I ended up contradicting myself in the last half of the test.

I'm an ESTJ according to the test and I came to unschooling because I'm also a realist and a cynic. I question EVERYTHING.

And I'm an activist for change, so i'm not even really a "rule follower, supervisor/guardian type" like the test suggests.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: New poll for Unschooling-dotcom


At 06:02 PM 6/15/03 +0000, Tory wrote:
>*****Sensing (S)- Preference for taking in information through the
>five senses and noticing what is actual.
>
>Intuition (N)- Preference for taking in information through a "sixth
>sense" and noticing what might be. ******
>
>It would seem to me that people who are heavily S may never actually
>consider or question the actuality of sending kids to school, or in
>this sense, not doing "school at home." Maybe they are more the type
>to "go with the flow" because that is just the way it is done instead
>of thinking about the fact that there may be other ways to do
>things. (Obviously this does not apply to ALL people, otherwise
>there would be not be any S's on this group. :)

Well, this doesn't make any sense to me, being an S. I have taken in with
my senses the information available to me and found the results (children
going to school) illogical. I don't see why an S would be less likely to
unschool than an N.

>******Thinking (T)- Preference for organizing and structuring
>information to decide in a logical, objective way.
>
>Feeling (F)- Preference for organizing and structuring information to
>decide in a personal, value-oriented way. ******
>
>I think it is pretty obvious that the unschooling lifestyle would
>appeal more to the F's than to T's. T's would be more drawn (again,
>typically, not always) to school at home. Grades, workbooks, etc,
>are all very logical and objective and appealing to T's.

Gee, school prevented me from organizing information in a way that was
logical to me. My child who is similar to me has never been to school and
is the most vehement about never going to school. I found very little logic
or objectivity during my schooling.

>I am curious about how some of the ST's come to unschooling. I
>wonder if it is due to them seeing that it is what their child needs,
>as opposed to what may have initially felt right to them.

Although the summary of the ISTJ personality type says we are the most
conservative and likely to support existing structures (school, church,
etc.) I didn't think this was necessarily so from the questions asked in
the test. With unschooling we are looking at a whole new way of living and
I don't see why every personality type wouldn't be drawn to it, given the
right information and the opportunity.

Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/16/03 7:15:23 PM, litlrooh@... writes:

<< There is a flaw in the test.

It asks a yes or no question, but doesn't let you know there is another
option below in a similar question. >>

In the long versions, they'll ask you the same basic question four different
ways, and it's not a trick, it's just... just the way the test is. <g>

And sometimes sifting through information back and forth gets better
information on yes/no than on multiple choice. If you choose one that's not the same
as ranking the four. But if you ask two at a time, you figure out what you
REALLY like and what you really DON'T like.

chocolate or vanilla?
chocolate or strawberry?
strawberry or vanilla?
rocky road or chocolate? (etc...)

Sandra

Bill and Diane

I'm an ISTJ. Bill and I took some of these when we were dating (he's
INTP) and found that the S/N and J/P questions were the ones we both
felt most strongly about (like duh! how could anyone choose THAT stupid
answer?!?) and differed on.

>If the S personality type (or maybe more accurately, the ST type) are
>*typically* the ones who do well in and like school, it would seem
>they would also be less likely to question the need for it. If my
>daughter had always done well and had no problems with cow milk, if I
>liked cow milk and never had any problem with it, I
>may never have looked into soy or rice milk.
>

I did fairly OK in school, and it came easy to me. With my older (now
grown) son I did send him to school and took a very traditional route.
The thinking part of understanding and prefering unschooling didn't
occur until after the gut reaction of knowing how I felt walking into a
school. THAT was truly terrible, and I couldn't imagine anyone doing it
by choice.

We had seven years of knowing we were going to homeschool before we had
kids, so I guess the idea of unschooling had more time to percolate and
the ideas of what we really wanted to do and not to do had time to develop.

>From all the summaries I have read of the ST personality, that seems
>to be a common denominator. But everyone has different levels of
>their preference (hence the "wimpy" vs. "balanced" discussion.) Some
>are extreme ST's and others are more middle of the road. Maybe it
>is the extreme ST that this would be mostly refering to? In looking
>at the people in my life who are ST, I find it to be true.
>

I didn't retake this test this time around, but remember myself as
pretty strongly sensate. Like I say--duh! Of course I'll trust my five
senses. I always used to say on my attachment parenting boards that
instincts would never have been allowed in my family (of origin).

I find the discussion interesting but somewhat hard to follow as it's
difficult for me to imagine what the "N" and "P" people are talking about.

:-) Diane
(still 600 messages behind)

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/19/03 3:50:36 AM, cen46624@... writes:

<< I always used to say on my attachment parenting boards that
instincts would never have been allowed in my family (of origin).>>

No kidding about THAT. I said once in a conversation about 15 years ago that
it was too bad that in the old days, 50 and 60's, schools and even
universities were teaching that humans had no instincts, that all we learned had to be
learned from books. A younger friend, not even born until the 1968 or so,
looked at me quickly and said they were STILL teaching that in college, in the
1980s.

Eeep.

<<I find the discussion interesting but somewhat hard to follow as it's
difficult for me to imagine what the "N" and "P" people are talking about.>>

In person you'd know more! <g>

Sandra

Bill and Diane

>
>
><<I find the discussion interesting but somewhat hard to follow as it's
>difficult for me to imagine what the "N" and "P" people are talking about.>>
>
>In person you'd know more! <g>
>

You'd think so, but I'm married to one, at it hasn't helped yet! 'Course
he's weird.

I always admire people who understand interpersonal relations--the
description of who ranked was SO valuable to me. I've never done
introductions because it seemed SO difficult, but I can understand the
rankings now.

I also never understood that you really were required to say "hi" and
"bye" to people and to acknowledge them as you pass, and it's still
difficult for me to remember to do so. As I passed some "hallway
acquaintances" who were conversing I couldn't decide whether it was
worse to interrupt their conversation with a greeting or snub them.
Aaarrgh. Yes, I would have appreciated some direct instruction
earlier--but my parents couldn't have provided it!

My salvation was (believe it or not!) Amway. They are the only place
I've found that actually offeres instruction on actual day-to-day human
interaction skills, and really changed my life for the better. They also
introduced my to _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ which is a
wonderful book on human interaction basics.

My tangent.

:-) Diane

Mary

From: "Bill and Diane" <cen46624@...>

<<I've never done
introductions because it seemed SO difficult, but I can understand the
rankings now.

I also never understood that you really were required to say "hi" and
"bye" to people and to acknowledge them as you pass, and it's still
difficult for me to remember to do so. As I passed some "hallway
acquaintances" who were conversing I couldn't decide whether it was
worse to interrupt their conversation with a greeting or snub them.>>


Well you just taught me something too. I never really thought that there
were people who would have problems with such things. That must be hard to
deal with when most people, like me, seem to think it's something everyone
just knows.

Mary B

Bill and Diane

>
>
>I also never understood that you really were required to say "hi" and
>"bye" to people and to acknowledge them as you pass, and it's still
>difficult for me to remember to do so. As I passed some "hallway
>acquaintances" who were conversing I couldn't decide whether it was
>worse to interrupt their conversation with a greeting or snub them.>>
>
>
>Well you just taught me something too. I never really thought that there
>were people who would have problems with such things. That must be hard to
>deal with when most people, like me, seem to think it's something everyone
>just knows.
>

It *is* difficult, but SO much less so now that I have a clue of what
the problem is. For the first 35 years I couldn't figure out what
everyone else had that I didn't!

:-) Diane