Julie Bogart

Since January, we've made some sweeping and radical
changes in our family life, largely due to the influence of this
group. Thank you so much for being unrelenting in how you
express your ideas (not settling for "each mother is a good
mother" type replies).

I'm in the midst of struggling through a few issues and I
wondered if anyone would be willing to help me sort them out.

We've got five kids and our youngest two are 6 and 9. They've
sensed that they have more freedom than they've ever had
before. But so far, we still say when they should go to bed, for
instance. We've relaxed the rigidity of a bedtime (if a show is on
they want to watch, they can stay up, or if they are playing a game
and are in the middle, we don't rush them to finish...).

Still, they don't completely decide for themselves about
bedtimes. And they've noticed. Now they say, "Mom, I really want
to stay up."

Here's my pickle and I suddenly saw what it was this a.m.

The kids feel this enormous sense of freedom now since we've
started unschooling. They no longer assume that because we've
always done something in the past, it will continue that way. So
they are expressing more freely "I want to stay up late" or "I don't
like doing that household job."

My dh, otoh, is not reading this list. He is generally incredibly
supportive of the unschooling life we've chosen, but he still feels
that littler kids (our younger two) need us to give them bedtimes,
to protect them from the music and TV choices of the teens and
so on. In fact, he asked me why I wouldn't want to give them
bedtimes but would be uncomfortable with them watching MTV
late at night with thier big siblings.

Good question!

Is it ever right to "step in" and determine for a child what is right
for that child? And if so, when and on what basis? Is there a
difference between restricting movies or music and bedtimes?

My dh brought up that driver's licenses are for 16 year olds and
voting is for 18 year olds. As a society we recognize that younger
children are less mature and need experience before being
trusted to in all areas. Does this apply to little kids and their
viewing/sleeping habits too?

I will think I've got it, and then I get stumped by a question or two
and feel that I go all fuzzy again.

I want to fundamentally respect my kids and their choices, but I
also feel very responsible for them and don't want to make the
mistake of not being "mindful" (as Sandra called it). I just don't
know how to do that without moving into parental control. And
what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the same
way?

Any thoughts?

Julie B

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
> Since January, we've made some sweeping and radical
> changes in our family life, largely due to the influence of this
> group. Thank you so much for being unrelenting in how you
> express your ideas (not settling for "each mother is a good
> mother" type replies).
>
> I'm in the midst of struggling through a few issues and I
> wondered if anyone would be willing to help me sort them out.
>
> We've got five kids and our youngest two are 6 and 9. They've
> sensed that they have more freedom than they've ever had
> before. But so far, we still say when they should go to bed, for
> instance. We've relaxed the rigidity of a bedtime (if a show is on
> they want to watch, they can stay up, or if they are playing a game
> and are in the middle, we don't rush them to finish...).
>
> Still, they don't completely decide for themselves about
> bedtimes. And they've noticed. Now they say, "Mom, I really want
> to stay up."
>
> Here's my pickle and I suddenly saw what it was this a.m.
>
> The kids feel this enormous sense of freedom now since we've
> started unschooling. They no longer assume that because we've
> always done something in the past, it will continue that way. So
> they are expressing more freely "I want to stay up late" or "I
don't
> like doing that household job."
>
> My dh, otoh, is not reading this list. He is generally incredibly
> supportive of the unschooling life we've chosen, but he still feels
> that littler kids (our younger two) need us to give them bedtimes,
> to protect them from the music and TV choices of the teens and
> so on. In fact, he asked me why I wouldn't want to give them
> bedtimes but would be uncomfortable with them watching MTV
> late at night with thier big siblings.
>
> Good question!
>
> Is it ever right to "step in" and determine for a child what is
right
> for that child? And if so, when and on what basis? Is there a
> difference between restricting movies or music and bedtimes?
>
> My dh brought up that driver's licenses are for 16 year olds and
> voting is for 18 year olds. As a society we recognize that younger
> children are less mature and need experience before being
> trusted to in all areas. Does this apply to little kids and their
> viewing/sleeping habits too?
>
> I will think I've got it, and then I get stumped by a question or
two
> and feel that I go all fuzzy again.
>
> I want to fundamentally respect my kids and their choices, but I
> also feel very responsible for them and don't want to make the
> mistake of not being "mindful" (as Sandra called it). I just don't
> know how to do that without moving into parental control. And
> what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the same
> way?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Julie B


Hi Julie

We have a general bedtime, though it is much later than it used to
be. EVeryone seems to want to stay up later these days. Plus, I think
our bodies are following a natural cycle, going with the sun a bit. I
still tend to get up pretty early, even with going to bed later.

Anyway. We've adopted a "stay up alone night" policy, where each kid
gets to do just that, once in awhile. Nothing set, just...when a kid
says "Can I stay up alone tonight?" we often say "sure." It's still
our decision to say yes or no...and we do that based on how much
sleep they've gotten in recent weeks, whether we have to be up and
out the next morning, etc.

You might find a way out of your kids asking to stay up later, if you
give them a "stay up alone" night once in awhile.

The driving at age 16 thing. Out here in rural Idaho, kids drive much
younger than that, and farm children are eligible for a day license
at age 14, but lots of them have already been driving for awhile by
that age. 16 is an arbitrary assignment of maturity. Some kids are
not ready to drive by 16, needing to mature more before having that
responsibility. Some kids are ready for it, younger. Not many, IMO.
But anyways.

Since parents have the responsibility of paying their Dr. bills, I
think parents have the right to determine some of these things for
the kids.

HeidiC

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/03 7:54:03 AM, julie@... writes:

<< We've relaxed the rigidity of a bedtime (if a show is on

they want to watch, they can stay up, or if they are playing a game

and are in the middle, we don't rush them to finish...). >>

I think being non rigid is more important than the other extreme.
Things start where they are, and if the mom decides that maybe a kid
shouldn't have to finish all his food, that's good. If a mom thinks maybe a snack
before dinner is okay, that's good.

My objection to too many arbitrary rules is that there are too many and
they're arbitrary!

On the other end, I think that as a family moves away from rules for rules'
sake to conscious decisionmaking based on saying yes to things that aren't
harmful, it's quite likely that they'll move all the way to a whole LOT of "sure,
that's fine" way into territory the rules would never have allowed them to
reach.

<<In fact, he asked me why I wouldn't want to give them

bedtimes but would be uncomfortable with them watching MTV

late at night with thier big siblings.>>

We have conditions on being up. "Be up if you can be quiet."
"Stay in the house" (for younger kids especially, and for loud company-kids
particularly).
"Don't do things that make the dog bark." (They thought playing quietly with
the dog was okay, but there are certain games that involve barking.)

So maybe you could say "I don't mind you being awake, but I don't want you
watching MTV. Stay in your room and do something quiet so even if you're not
asleep you'll still be resting."

If it's an "if/then" the kids can decide whether they'd just rather go to
sleep than keep to the restrictions. And as they get older (which just keeps
happening every day <g>) they can get more range.

<<I just don't

know how to do that without moving into parental control. And

what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the same

way?>>

Maybe ask him to think about what it would really hurt, to let them practice
decision making on benign things like being awake instead of alseep at 10:30
p.m. (or a.m. <g>), in their own home. Pretty danger-free.

Marty slept nine hours and some last night, but not very well. He's sick.
But he knew he was feeling bad, and so went to sleep just after 9:00 and got
up when his alarm went off at 6:45. I didn't have to tell him to go to sleep.
He WANTED to go to sleep. If he had a bedtime, he would have been looking at
the clock instead of listening to his body.

Sandra

Mary

From: "Julie Bogart" <julie@...>

<<Is it ever right to "step in" and determine for a child what is right
for that child? And if so, when and on what basis? Is there a
difference between restricting movies or music and bedtimes?>>


Well I think it depends on the family and the circumstances and also if it's
not just a rule because, that it has sound reasoning behind it, then it's
okay. You mentioned bedtime. My oldest goes whenever she wants. She knows
what she can handle with work and school and things planned. Sierra, at 7 is
very good at her self regulation. So I pretty much let her go. There are
times when she's up until midnight and other times when she asks if she can
go to bed at 11:00. (what would I say.....no??) The 2 1/2 year old gets very
cranky with not enough sleep or will fall asleep the next day late and
totally throw everything off kilter. So her bedtime if you will is anywhere
around 11 until 12:00. No set time, we wing it. Joseph is not good yet at
seeing his tired signs. I see them but he doesn't. He loves to stay up and
will go for a long time and the next day he's unbearable. I have let him go
for about a month and he doesn't regulate in that time. It's caused big
problems with how he relates to others. So as long as he gets some good
sleep for a couple nights, going to bed when the baby does, I'll tell him
when he asks to stay up that it's okay. He knows he can't do that every
night. He sees how he's grouchy the next day. That little bit of help I give
him, with good reasoning is helping him to understand.


<<My dh brought up that driver's licenses are for 16 year olds and
voting is for 18 year olds. As a society we recognize that younger
children are less mature and need experience before being
trusted to in all areas. Does this apply to little kids and their
viewing/sleeping habits too?>>



We just went through the driving thing here. I personally don't think that
here where I live, most 15 year olds should be driving around. I should also
say that most 70 year olds shouldn't either. And I could lump in all the
ages in between!!! But it's the law here. 15 can get their restricted and
most of the parents of these children let them drive alone. It's easier for
them. Then after a year, literally on their 16th birthday they can get their
license. I didn't see Tara being ready at 15 to drive. Luckily for me, she
wasn't feeling ready or eager either. She got her restricted at almost 16.
Slowly we started showing her and taking her out. She's over 17 now, has her
own car but no license yet. She's getting comfortable with her car which she
recently got on the road before she goes for her test. She's knowing her
strenghts and weaknesses and learning accordingly.

As far as TV and movies, we don't restrict. I have noticed that when
something questionable comes on, the children either turn the channel or
tell me that makes them uncomfortable and can I watch for it and let them
know if it happens again or if it's that kind of movie or show.



<<And what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the same
way?>>


I am fortunate to have a husband pretty trusting of my parenting and what I
have learned and tried and looked into. Once in awhile, the old family
mentality comes back and he gives a "because I said so" answer. We talk a
lot about what he can do that's better. I have him read things or just read
things to him. Then talk some more so he sees what's really important and
how big of a deal could that be or let's just try and see what happens. It's
getting easier now for him too.

Mary B

[email protected]

julie@... writes:

<< I want to fundamentally respect my kids and their choices, but I
also feel very responsible for them and don't want to make the
mistake of not being "mindful" (as Sandra called it). I just don't
know how to do that without moving into parental control. And
what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the same
way?

Any thoughts?

Julie B >>


Ask your kids a lot of questions. Talk to each other. Tell each other
how you feel about things. You don't need formal family meetings or anything,
just talk. Whatever kid is around!! lol Learn about the different things
that everybody wants, needs, and likes. Don't have a lot of expectations about
results, just have fun. If the conversation gets off track, don't worry about
it, you'll have plenty of opportunities to talk another time, or day.

With things between you and your spouse, same thing, but without the
kids, at least sometimes. Try and understand each other's pov about things, the
motivation behind them, preconceived notions that pop up. Explore the
reasoning, justifcations, whatever, for feeling or thinking that way.

Mindfulness, awareness, consciousness, they're all basically the same
thing. Open up, share, and listen.

It's sounds so new agey and simplistic, lol, now that I've reread it what
I wrote. Oh well!

~Aimee

Betsy

**Don't have a lot of expectations about
results, just have fun.**


Maybe THAT'S the downside of the word "project". To me a project seems
to have a defined, expected outcome.

Betsy

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], "Mary"
<mummy124@b...> wrote:

>
> Well I think it depends on the family and the circumstances
and also if it's
> not just a rule because, that it has sound reasoning behind it,
then it's
> okay.

Your experiences here were really helpful to me. I've been
wondering if there's ever a need to transition from one age to the
next, helping your child to appreciate your concerns and also
your experience. I like that you said that the key is not to create an
arbitrary rule.

> As far as TV and movies, we don't restrict. I have noticed that
when
> something questionable comes on, the children either turn the
channel or
> tell me that makes them uncomfortable and can I watch for it
and let them
> know if it happens again or if it's that kind of movie or show.

This one is easier for me. But it was in the context of why I would
feel fine restricting one while I wouldn't the other.

I think I'm getting the feel for this. The goal is at all times to give
our children the greatest sense of ownership over their lives that
we can. In those instances where there is a need for parental
oversight (as in having had more experience with late nights or
with adult movie material) stepping in needs to be with clear,
easy to understand reasons that the child has the chance to
hear and respond to.

Seems like we can go a long way in letting our kids discover
what they can tolerate and then in those rare instances, we can
say "Not tonight" with a good explanation for why this is an
exception.

Does that sound close?
>
>
>
> <<And what do you do if you and your spouse don't see it the
same
> way?>>
>
>
> I am fortunate to have a husband pretty trusting of my parenting
and what I
> have learned and tried and looked into. Once in awhile, the old
family
> mentality comes back and he gives a "because I said so"
answer. We talk a
> lot about what he can do that's better. I have him read things or
just read
> things to him. Then talk some more so he sees what's really
important and
> how big of a deal could that be or let's just try and see what
happens. It's
> getting easier now for him too.

Good to hear. My dh just said that he'd like me to forward some
of these discussions so he can read along and get the ideas for
himself. Think I'll send him yours. :)

Thanks again.

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/2003 6:19:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> Luckily for me, she
> wasn't feeling ready or eager either. She got her restricted at almost 16.
> Slowly we started showing her and taking her out. She's over 17 now, has her
> own car but no license yet. She's

My going to be 19 in August son just got his drivers license this week, on
Tuesday. He's had a learners permit for a while but never felt "ready" I guess
to get the license. He's out tonight in his new car, even though it does make
me a little (very little) more comfortable that it shows maturity that he
waited so long to get his actual license when he could have easily had it for
almost three years, I'm still worried, but I'm trying NOT to be.

My other son got his full license somewhere after 18 and before 19 but closer
to 18. My older girl got hers the day she turned 16, couldn't WAIT. Most
that I know it's the other way around.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], AimeeL73@c...
wrote:

>
>
> Ask your kids a lot of questions. Talk to each other. Tell
each other
> how you feel about things. You don't need formal family
meetings or anything,
> just talk. Whatever kid is around!! lol Learn about the different
things
> that everybody wants, needs, and likes. Don't have a lot of
expectations about
> results, just have fun. If the conversation gets off track, don't
worry about
> it, you'll have plenty of opportunities to talk another time, or day.
>
> With things between you and your spouse, same thing, but
without the
> kids, at least sometimes. Try and understand each other's pov
about things, the
> motivation behind them, preconceived notions that pop up.
Explore the
> reasoning, justifcations, whatever, for feeling or thinking that
way.
>
> Mindfulness, awareness, consciousness, they're all
basically the same
> thing. Open up, share, and listen.
>
> It's sounds so new agey and simplistic, lol, now that I've
reread it what
> I wrote. Oh well!
>

LOL! I love it. Talking. That's something I can do with my lips tied
behind my back. And so far, that's how we've been doing it. I
keep checking in with everyone.

But mostly, I'm playing more with my kids. That's been the
biggest help in all of it. We do so much talking and laughing. The
spirit in the house has been incredible since January.

We had one long, long talk on Sunday about how to manage
computer turns (five kids, one computer). It took over an hour and
a half. But I suddenly got to this incredible point where I finally
saw what the problem was. it took so much talking! They were
ready to have longer turns (they had continued with the original
plan I had set up as a default). So we reconfigured to two hour
turns.

Suddenly now no one is hovering waitnig for a turn and the kids
are more inclined to do other things (activities, reading,
whatever) because they know they won't be on for two hours at
least. It was this amazing breakthrough that we never would
have had without all that talking.

So if that's the key, then I'm feeling really much better.

Thanks Aimee, my new age guru! <bg>

Julie B

Mary

From: "Julie Bogart" <julie@...>

<<I think I'm getting the feel for this. The goal is at all times to give
our children the greatest sense of ownership over their lives that
we can. In those instances where there is a need for parental
oversight (as in having had more experience with late nights or
with adult movie material) stepping in needs to be with clear,
easy to understand reasons that the child has the chance to
hear and respond to.>>



When I hear stepping in, I think of something going on that we are not a
part of and then making ourselves become a part of that situation and then
leaving again. Like seeing a fight, stepping and stopping it and then
leaving. So I like to think of it more like just being a part and always
being there with our children to talk about whatever is going on. Not
necessarily being right on top of them but behind them or beside them to
help and guide when needed. Always talking about what is going on, whether
there are problems or not makes it so that we don't just "step in" when
there is a problem. It's something we're always around for and our kids know
that and don't feel odd or shy or embarrassed to ask. I think that's what
you understood, just clarifying for myself and maybe others.



<<Seems like we can go a long way in letting our kids discover
what they can tolerate and then in those rare instances, we can
say "Not tonight" with a good explanation for why this is an
exception.
Does that sound close?>>

Yes. And when it's not arbitrary, then our children get it too because it's
not a "because I said so" which isn't fair at all to them. They start to
hear what we are saying and why instead of just no all the time for no real
reason.



<<Good to hear. My dh just said that he'd like me to forward some
of these discussions so he can read along and get the ideas for
himself. Think I'll send him yours. :)>>


Sometimes I'll send certain sights to my husband but I find reading some
posts from here, or printing them out and leaving them for him to take to
work, or just sending some to him works best. Then later we talk about them
after he's had time to digest them. Then I can give him my take on things
and listen to his perspective and work on both ways and how we can leave
parts out, include them and make them both better.

Mary B

Julie Solich

We've got five kids and our youngest two are 6 and 9. They've
sensed that they have more freedom than they've ever had
before. But so far, we still say when they should go to bed, for
instance. We've relaxed the rigidity of a bedtime (if a show is on
they want to watch, they can stay up, or if they are playing a game
and are in the middle, we don't rush them to finish...).

We've relaxed our bedtime routine also. We do still say when it is bedtime but try to gauge how tired they are. I would like to get to the place where they decide but we aren't ready for that yet.
I have relaxed heaps with the food restrictions and stopped imposing Tv restrictions and I am getting comfortable with that. We have also stopped spanking and I find that finding new ways to resolve daily conflicts is quite exhausting so there are days when I really need the bedtime routine.

I'm hoping that over the next few months that this will get easier then we can look at letting go of the set bedtimes. I have just been worried that if we changed everything at once that it would be too much for me to cope with and it wouldn't last.

Julie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/7/03 1:27:08 AM, mjsolich@... writes:

<<
I'm hoping that over the next few months that this will get easier then we
can look at letting go of the set bedtimes. >>

They'll get older and calmer too.

Sometimes I ask Holly if she could please go to bed because... (insert good
reason, like "I'm really tired and I would feel better if you weren't up
alone," or "You'll get well sooner if you sleep more, I think," or "You'll have more
fun with the other kids at X event if you get more sleep.")

She has never said "NO, forget it, I don't want to go to bed." Sometimes she
will make a counter offer, like, "How about you tuck me in and I'll listen to
Cyndi Lauper?" or "Can I watch a video if it's quiet?"

And I'll say "Okay, but put the sound down low so maybe you'll fall asleep."

And the result is she not only goes to bed, BUT it's all couched in terms
that make it like she did me a big favor, and then I say "Thanks, I really
appreciate it. See you in the morning!"

No tears, no fear, no frustration.
If I could count the times I went to bed frustrated, angry, scared or crying
(usually two of the above), I would probably start crying right now! Luckily
I've forgotten all but a few, though I know there were hundreds. Holly's
total number is less than ten, and all understandable problems or fumbles/bad
parenting on my part when she was younger.

Sandra

Julie Solich

No tears, no fear, no frustration.
If I could count the times I went to bed frustrated, angry, scared or crying
(usually two of the above), I would probably start crying right now! Luckily
I've forgotten all but a few, though I know there were hundreds. Holly's
total number is less than ten, and all understandable problems or fumbles/bad
parenting on my part when she was younger.

Sandra

I know people who used to put their toddler into her cot, turn out all the lights and go out and leave her to cry herself to sleep. One thing my mum did for me until I was 11 or so was stay with me till I was really sleepy and comfortable so I wanted to do the same for my kids.

I have always tried to make bedtime comforting and pleasant. I usually read to the kids and often I've read poems till they have fallen asleep. It always seemed cold to just say bedtime and send them off. And if the day has been bad everyone feels better after a story and a cuddle.

Although I do remember when Mia was a few weeks old, we had two weeks of evening screaming, nothing seemed to calm her.

Mark was away and the boys were 5 and 3 and used to an hour of bedtime stories. After getting them fed and bathed (all done with a screaming infant over my shoulder) I would put them to bed, turn off the lights and pace the room with Mia crying in my arms and tell them The Story of Peter Rabbit (I knew it by heart I had told it so often)speaking very loudly so they could hear what I was saying. Sometimes one of them would pipe up in the dark, 'say that again mum I didn't hear you!' I thought I was going to go insane at the time but it's kinda funny now.

Julie

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "Julie Solich"
<mjsolich@i...> wrote:
>
> No tears, no fear, no frustration.
> If I could count the times I went to bed frustrated, angry,
scared or crying
> (usually two of the above), I would probably start crying right
now! Luckily
> I've forgotten all but a few, though I know there were hundreds.
Holly's
> total number is less than ten, and all understandable problems or
fumbles/bad
> parenting on my part when she was younger.
>
> Sandra
>
> I know people who used to put their toddler into her cot, turn
out all the lights and go out and leave her to cry herself to sleep.
One thing my mum did for me until I was 11 or so was stay with me
till I was really sleepy and comfortable so I wanted to do the same
for my kids.

> I have always tried to make bedtime comforting and pleasant. I
usually read to the kids and often I've read poems till they have
fallen asleep. It always seemed cold to just say bedtime and send
them off. And if the day has been bad everyone feels better after a
story and a cuddle.
>

We always had a heck of a time getting our littlest one to sleep when
she was a baby. Then we went to Disneyland, and my mil stayed w/the
little kids (just under one year, and one and a half years). She did
MANY things wrong, including trying to force potty training on our
1.5 year old boy!!! but one of the things she did well was, sitting
with them in their room until they fell asleep. We could never get
Katie down before about 10:30. Gramma had her asleep by 9:00 at the
latest.

We never did just send them off, though. We had our cuddle time
before putting her in her crib. But...it was the sitting in there
with her that made the difference.

HeidiC

Mary

From: <SandraDodd@...>

<<Sometimes I ask Holly if she could please go to bed because... (insert
good
reason, like "I'm really tired and I would feel better if you weren't up
alone," or "You'll get well sooner if you sleep more, I think," or "You'll
have more
fun with the other kids at X event if you get more sleep.")>>


Exactly. That was my point when talking about Joseph and his bedtimes.
Explaining or suggesting instead of telling. He'll take some books to bed
with him or even play gameboy awhile until he really feels the tiredness
that I see.

Last night, Sierra asked to go to sleep. I told her to say goodnight to
everyone and round up her sister and I would be in. I heard her calling
Alyssa but didn't hear that she found her. So when I went to go in, the door
was closed to the bedroom and the lights were off. I went and checked my
moms place to see if Alyssa was there. No Alyssa and only Sierra had said
goodnight. I went into the bedroom and both girls were in bed with lights
out making shadow animals on the wall with their flashlights. I kissed them
goodnight and left them that way. Not sure how long they stayed up but they
were quiet and when I went in later, they were sound asleep.

Joseph stayed up until after 1:00. I would have liked him to sleep sooner as
we were at the water park all day, but time got away from both of us.

It's after noon now and Joseph and Sierra have been up for about a half
hour, Alyssa is still sleeping.

Mary B

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In a message dated 6/7/03 10:05:43 AM, mummy124@... writes:

<< Not sure how long they stayed up but they

were quiet and when I went in later, they were sound asleep. >>

Maybe that's part of it. Maybe it's just one more aspect of the controls and
measures. If we don't know when they fell asleep, we aren't being good
scientific parents. (And so many detractors say then the kids are running the
house and walking all over the parents.)

People are SO afraid of freedom. It's ironic.

Sandra

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julie@... writes:

<< LOL! I love it. Talking. That's something I can do with my lips tied
behind my back. And so far, that's how we've been doing it. I
keep checking in with everyone.
>>

Yah, talking is good. Listening is better!! Sometimes I feel like zippering
my mouth closed would be a really good idea. lol

<<It took over an hour and
a half. But I suddenly got to this incredible point where I finally
saw what the problem was. it took so much talking! >>

See, you're doing it already.

<<So if that's the key, then I'm feeling really much better.

Thanks Aimee, my new age guru! <bg>

Julie B>>

ROFL, I don't need a bigger ego, really, I don't, but you're very welcome.
I think it's THE key, and it's so simple and obvious people don't notice.

~Aimee

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julie@... writes:

<< Seems like we can go a long way in letting our kids discover
what they can tolerate and then in those rare instances, we can
say "Not tonight" with a good explanation for why this is an
exception.

Does that sound close? >>


Yah, how about....

" I don't think that's a good idea for tonite because...."

9 times out of 10 it's a nonissue, they heard you and understood, case
closed.

Sometimes you'll get a discussion, and they'll get their pov across, and
you'll realize there is no good reason for "not tonite," Be ready for that, too.

~Aimee

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mjsolich@... writes:

<< the bedtime routine.
>>

I don't think there is anything wrong with a bedtime routine. The routine of
brushing teeth, talking about our day, reading, prayer, singing to him,
putting on a tape after lights out, and he saying goodnite to his little stuffed
animals on his headboard, is our routine, and all this starts at or around 10.

He falls asleep faster. It's comforting to him. I've done it every day, his
whole life. Don't take that away from your kids if they need it, or even if
the family needs it, for now. Be open to what works better for them, yes, but
don't just throw it out the window if they need/want it/ are used to it.

<< I have just been worried that if we changed everything at once that it
would be too much for me to cope with and it wouldn't last.>>

Exactly. The goal is to make everyone more comfortable, not stressed out for
arbitrary reasons.

~Aimee

Andrea

At 12:49 PM 6/7/03 +0000, HeidiC wrote:
>We never did just send them off, though. We had our cuddle time
>before putting her in her crib. But...it was the sitting in there
>with her that made the difference.

When our oldest was about five months old we had a birthday party for my
Dad. We always cuddled William to sleep (at that age I usually nursed him
to sleep) and my husband was rocking him in the living room. My cousin's
husband said, "We used to do that with our oldest, too." John and I smiled,
thinking he was going to reminisce fondly. Then he said, "We didn't make
that mistake with our second." He went on to describe the method of putting
your child into his crib, closing the door, and closing your ears to the
crying. John and I were horrified.

My eight-year-old still wants me with him as he falls asleep. Since he is
not a cuddly child this is special for both of us. Simon, almost four,
sometimes goes into his own bed with his teddy bears by himself, but that's
quite new, both the "his own bed" part and the "by himself" part. :-) Until
very recently he usually nursed to sleep in my bed.

Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia