Dara McMichael

Kim,
I am new too and haven't started yet but I have a similar
situation. My husband is very disciplined and likes
structure so we compromise. I need my kids to have a
regular bedtime for my sanity. We allow them to stay up
later on weekends but they still have to be in be by 9:30.
I usually allow two of the three to sleep later on
Saturdays. I think you should introduce some structured
time into each day where your son knows he has certain
things he needs to accomplish in that period. If your
husband sees an improvement in your son he is more likely to
support the less structured schooling. It may be that your
husband wants more adult time with you and having children
up late seems to prevent adult conversation without
distractions. Just my thoughts.
Dara

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/23/00 10:23:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tyquondoe@... writes:

<< Is there anything wrong with letting my
son stay up late and sleep late? My husband seems to think he should
have a set bedtime and get up early to start his day. Guess what?
That doesn't seem to work with Benjamin (my son). >>

Kim,
Hi and welcome. You have come to the right place for support, and you are
going to get lots of feed back. I just want to say that both my sons, 9 and
11, and I are night people. We stay up late and sleep late. We have always
done this. My husband works late most nights, we eat dinner VERY late, when
the boys are in sports, their practice and games can get us home and eating,
therefore up late. When the boys were about 8 and 10 my husband started to
have a problem with the getting up late. I asked him why they needed to get
up. His response was that they needed to get up and get the day going, or
that they needed to learn to get up. Again I asked why, if they have to get
up early for something, they do, but why should they if we get our work done
during the day? If it is because someday they will have to work, well, so
what, that is why the world runs on shifts! I worked 3-11 and 11-7 all my
working career, cause I hate to go to bed at 9pm and get up at 5:30am.
People work from home, set their own hours. There are to many alternatives.
So, why get up early? If it is so we can get school out of the way, and then
have the day to go play, that is fine, and we do that, but not just because
you should be up by 8am cause that is what people do. So, now he doesn't say
anything, I don't know if he agrees with me or not, but he doesn't say
anything. I think he secretly thinks it is being lazy or unchristian to stay
in bed. hehehe
Anyway, my two cents, and again, welcome
Teresa

[email protected]

Dear Kim,
Reading your letter, I felt like Wow! she really has it
together! You may not realize it but you are already doing the most
important thing in Unschooling- you are listening to your child! You have
already figured out how he learns and that's another important thing to know.
I think if you follow your obviously good instincts, you are going to do
great! Your husband may take longer to trust that your son is learning since
he learns differently than either of you. But as time goes on, I'm sure he
will see the wonderful results of unschooling! jackie

K WORTHEN

Hi Kim,
The beauty of home/unschooling is the flexability. My kids do
some of there best learning at 10 P.M. and sleeping as late as we want
allows all of us to start our day well rested and refreshed. Of course, you
have to do what works best for your family, but I know more families than
not that find listening to their bodies instead of watching the clock makes
them better learners. Good Luck.
Amy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Holderby" <tyquondoe@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 10:21 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] New to Unschooling


> From: "Kim Holderby" <tyquondoe@...>
>
> Hello, I am new to unschooling--actually to homeschooling period! My
> son is 8 & 1/2 and has been home since about Feb 1. He was in public
> school (3rd grade) in Arkansas. I am so interested in doing this for
> him. He is a gifted child and extremely bright. However, he hates
> school! I need some advice and feedback, I think. My husband is
> very, very supportive of all of this, but is having trouble with the
> "unstructuredness" of it all. Both my son and I are similar in that
> we are very unstructured, spontaneous learners, where my husband is
> completely the opposite..very methodical, very routine-oriented. I
> am trying NOT to push my son. He is resisting ANY schooling right
> now. All he seems to want to do is play video games and watch TV!
> He hates to write, for one thing. Which is one thing he detested
> about school. I haven't seemed to find the "spark" for him yet.
> He's interested in EVERYTHING, it seems.
>
> I know I am rambling here! Is there anything wrong with letting my
> son stay up late and sleep late? My husband seems to think he should
> have a set bedtime and get up early to start his day. Guess what?
> That doesn't seem to work with Benjamin (my son). Which is one of
> the reasons I chose to take him out of public schools! They seemed
> much more interested in recording attendance than they did
> challenging and stimulating my child!
>
> I will close for now...not sure if any of this makes sense. Please
> respond with ANY feedback! I haven't found a support group here in
> Northwest Arkansas yet. We have Christian beliefs, but are not
> "religious". HELP!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
>

Sonia Ulan

Hi Help!

In my not-so-humble opinion, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with your
son staying up late and sleeping late. From birth, none of my 3
children were sleepers. They were all nighthawks. Our schedule,
therefore, has been quite "off" for the last 10 years. For the longest
while I thought we were freaks and had to deal with constant criticism
that somehow my children would not thrive unless bedded down by 9 pm the
latest, and up by 7 am. I hate to disappoint the world, but kids grow
just as tall and are just as healthy, watching midnight programming and
often missing mornings altogether. (Though there are times when my
children experience sunrises-particularly at this time of year as the
days are getting longer-simply because they have been up all night!)
The good news is, I have recently aligned myself with a group of
unschoolers here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and to my great surprise
many of my cohorts have come clean and confessed to the same schedule!
(i.e. late nights, late mornings) Then a big-wig university professor
from the faculty of education no less, proudly announced that his
unschooled daughter was up past midnight every night watching the late
movies! And she had better English than any of her peers! She had a
much greater command of language, from a young age, just from watching
and hearing the dramatic dialogue in some of the world's most classic
movies. (I think she's in university now as an English major) Anyway,
I've also come to realize that we non-conforming unschoolers DO have
routine worked-out with our kids. If being in bed by 8 and up by 6 is a
routine, why isn't being in bed by 1 and up at 11? People who work the
late shift aren't on a routine? But 9 to 5-ers are? What kind of
discrimination is that? The other thing I've learned from my university
prof friend is people get up in the morning when they have incentive.
For instance, his formerly late-night daughter does not object to
getting up early now for class because she has found what she truly
loves. And face it, money i.e. a job, can be a great motivator too when
necessary.
Your son will be fine and will thrive if this is what he needs right
now. It's not to say this is how it will always be. And as time goes
on if he decides he hates mornings, he'll be primed for late shift duty
on the job. In the meantime, rest assured you're in good company. At
least up here in Canada!

Sonia

P.S. Did I mention how great it is for family time when the kids stay
up late? Firstly, my 10 and 7 year olds have established the most
intimate and loving relationship with their 17 mo. old baby sibling
since they stay up with him. If I insisted my older ones get to bed
earlier they would miss out on some of the baby's best moods. Obviously
traditional schooling and same schedule would greatly hamper that whole
bonding process. And secondly, we find we don't have the usual
disturbances of phones, appointments, other people, etc. after 10 pm.
We can then have our quiet bonding down time, undisturbed. Family
closeness is usually the number one reason for homeschooling.

Kim Holderby wrote:
>
> From: "Kim Holderby" <tyquondoe@...>
>
> Hello, I am new to unschooling--actually to homeschooling period! My
> son is 8 & 1/2 and has been home since about Feb 1. He was in public
> school (3rd grade) in Arkansas. I am so interested in doing this for
> him. He is a gifted child and extremely bright. However, he hates
> school! I need some advice and feedback, I think. My husband is
> very, very supportive of all of this, but is having trouble with the
> "unstructuredness" of it all. Both my son and I are similar in that
> we are very unstructured, spontaneous learners, where my husband is
> completely the opposite..very methodical, very routine-oriented. I
> am trying NOT to push my son. He is resisting ANY schooling right
> now. All he seems to want to do is play video games and watch TV!
> He hates to write, for one thing. Which is one thing he detested
> about school. I haven't seemed to find the "spark" for him yet.
> He's interested in EVERYTHING, it seems.
>
> I know I am rambling here! Is there anything wrong with letting my
> son stay up late and sleep late? My husband seems to think he should
> have a set bedtime and get up early to start his day. Guess what?
> That doesn't seem to work with Benjamin (my son). Which is one of
> the reasons I chose to take him out of public schools! They seemed
> much more interested in recording attendance than they did
> challenging and stimulating my child!
>
> I will close for now...not sure if any of this makes sense. Please
> respond with ANY feedback! I haven't found a support group here in
> Northwest Arkansas yet. We have Christian beliefs, but are not
> "religious". HELP!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/936/7/_/448294/_/953824921/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To Unsubscribe: mailto:[email protected]

susan

hi,

we find that this works for our family as well. i love our private time in the
mornings. our son is only 4 1/2 but he has always prefers to go to sleep
between 11 and 12 while i prefer 10ish so we taught him how to put himself to
bed. now when he wants to stay up later than we do he can (he does share our
bed). he enjoys the freedom and independence and i really believe that he
experiences profound respect and thoughtfulness and is learning how to return
that to others. this is one of things we would love for him to learn.

Shelley Mansberger wrote:

> From: "Shelley Mansberger" <serene@...>
>
> I'm fairly new to this list, but wanted to add my support to the "staying up
> late" crowd. We finally decided to stop fighting our kids natural
> biological clocks and allow them to sleep and wake as needed, and they've
> thrived. The funny thing in our family is that my two boys, 17 and almost
> 14, stay up 'til midnight or so every night. My husband and I are asleep
> most nights by 9:30. The positive thing for our family has been that my
> husband and I get up at 5am most mornings to share a few hours of quiet,
> sacred time together over a cup of java and a lit candle. It's blessed our
> marriage in wonderful ways. I'm glad to let them sleep!
>
> Shelley

Darryl Klement

Shelley Mansberger wrote:
> I'm fairly new to this list, but wanted to add my support to the "staying up
> late" crowd. We finally decided to stop fighting our kids natural
> biological clocks and allow them to sleep and wake as needed, and they've
> thrived. The funny thing in our family is that my two boys, 17 and almost
> 14, stay up 'til midnight or so every night. My husband and I are asleep
> most nights by 9:30. The positive thing for our family has been that my
> husband and I get up at 5am most mornings to share a few hours of quiet,
> sacred time together over a cup of java and a lit candle. It's blessed our
> marriage in wonderful ways. I'm glad to let them sleep!
>
> Shelley

I find this a distinct advantage in the summer when all their peers are
of on summer vacation.
They are allowed to play outside until about 10pm and sleep in until
8-9 am.
This works out particularily well for me with my MS because with dh
working shifts and mornings being my best time of day (energy wise, heat
is the enemy in summer)) it's lovely when he get's home after nightshift
(about 6:30am) and we get some quality *snuggle* time.

Buzz

Shelley Mansberger

I'm fairly new to this list, but wanted to add my support to the "staying up
late" crowd. We finally decided to stop fighting our kids natural
biological clocks and allow them to sleep and wake as needed, and they've
thrived. The funny thing in our family is that my two boys, 17 and almost
14, stay up 'til midnight or so every night. My husband and I are asleep
most nights by 9:30. The positive thing for our family has been that my
husband and I get up at 5am most mornings to share a few hours of quiet,
sacred time together over a cup of java and a lit candle. It's blessed our
marriage in wonderful ways. I'm glad to let them sleep!

Shelley

[email protected]

I tried to fight my daughters biological clock for years. I love my aloneness
time at night. My son falls asleep naturally between 7:30 to 8:30 and gets up
about 5:30. Meggy on the other hand loves to stay up till all hours, like her
mama<g> I stopped fighting and now enjoy having her up. She really comes
alive after 9 and gets very creative and artistic. Since I do most of my
writing after 9, I can relate! The other night she made a life-size sculpture
of her self standing up using sticks, strings, paper and some of her clothes.
We head to bed about midnight and If I want to sleep in my own bed I merely
wait her out.
Teri
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teri Brown
Suite101 Unschooling Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/unschooling
Assistant Editor For Voices,
The Journal of the National Home Education Network www.nhen.org
Columnist For The Link: A Homeschooling Newspaper
Homeschooling - Christian Unschooling - Natural learning
http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trisha Sides

> I am new to this list too. I have been reading for a couple of days
now, and I just had to put in my two cents about tis "staying up late'issue.
I have one son who's nearly six and he often stays up til midnight or even
later. His father and I are both "night people".This trait gave me alot of
problems when I was in school. In high school I often missed my first 2
classes, and when I was there I was a zombie. I feel strongly that we should
follow our own rythms, but I've often felt self conscious when freinds or
family comment about G "still being up at this hour" It really is nice to
hear that there are others who would back me up!
Thanks, Trisha
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[email protected]

Teresa,
What is it with the world and the waking up early thing?! My gang wakes up
9ish-the 13 yo is another matter-he would wake up at noon and stay up till
2am which IO wouldn't mind -moving furniture, etc.-except we have a tiny
house and he acts as if it is the middle of the day at Midnight and we have a
7yo, a5yo, and a 17 month old who need some sleep so Mom can get a break
sometime!(between Midnight and 1am) Glad to see I am not the only one
figuring this one out!
Bridget

The Panchots

First, hello to all. I was on this list a while ago, but had to unsub
because of all the email. I couldn't take it anymore and missed the support
and info! :-)

My son (9yo) and daughter (4 1/2 yo) also have 'different' hours :-) At
about 9:30 or 10:00 a certain energy comes over our house. Nicholas and
Emily sometimes get a project out and start working on it, or maybe a game,
or sometimes we all read or talk, maybe doing dishes and a late batch of
cookies, who knows! Some of our best discussions happen in the evening.
Saturday nights are usually late ones, last night the kids got to sleep
about 12:30, but Nicholas woke up at about 9:15 and Emily rose at 10:00.
They are well rested and having a blast right now. Nicholas seems to need
less sleep than me at times. There are some nights that they end up in bed
at 9:30 or 10:00. I think it's all following their natural schedule.
Sometimes they know that it's a get-to-bed early night as they may be a
little more tired than usual.

Emily, probably because of her age, gets to sleep shortly after we're done
reading to her at night. Nicholas, on the other hand, listens to some of
Emily's stories ( I think he like the American Girls books just as much as
we do!) then starts reading his book. He's been hooked on the Redwall books
lately, and stays up for an hour or two after Emily, reading. Reading
reading reading. DH and myself comment at times at what the heck would we
have done if we had the opportunity to read like that. How wonderful that
would be. I remember getting so 'into' a Stephen King book when I was in
high school that I stayed home from school for three days to finish it. Now
the schools make kids read for homework-a chore???? Nicholas and Emily get
absolutely baffled when they hear a child say they have to read a certain
book for homework. Yesterday Nicholas crawled back into bed after breakfast
( this was at about 11:00) and read until almost 2:00. The weather was too
nice to stay inside any longer....

I agree that when there is something that someone needs to get up early for,
the will do it. We are ever changing and evolving. Schedules, plans,
interests.......I say relax and enjoy it. A lot of people don't understand
it. I know that I couldn't possibly make my kids go to bed at 9:00, it would
be torture. ESPECIALLY with the days getting longer, we are out in the
garden usually until 9:30 or later! The kids are happy, and I figure that
something must be going right :-)

Take care,

Brynn