[email protected]

Today we went on a "dog trainer field trip" Another homeschool mother had
arranged the trip to a local dog trainer/competitor/breeder a few months ago and
the trip kept getting canceled and rescheduled. Today, we finally got to go.

The fellow as very personable kid-friendly ( no surprise as he is also
dog-friendly.. lol) He is a shuzhund trainer and he spent over 2 hours showing us
lots of interesting things. He talked about dog care, diet, health, etc. He
showed us some basic obedience training with a pup he is currently training.
He took us over to a field that he had "laid a track" in and told us all
about tracking dogs and thier jobs, how they track, what they do, ect. We got a
first hand experience of watching (and following) his award winning dog track a
3 hour old trail. He showed us how he rewards the dog by playing with him
and how the dog obeys so meticulously in order to get to play with his toy.
Then, we went back to his training site and he showed us another dog do some
protection/bite work. Folks asked a lot of questions and he was happy to
answer all of them. He was very patient and thorough with his answers. The dogs
were amazing and beautiful.

JP got bored about an hour into it as did most of the other kids under 10.
They turned to picking weeds and throwing grass on each other and just
goofing off and playing around. They dog trainer guy didn't seem to mind too much,
he still had the adults and a few older kids attention. Basically, the
younger kids just liked watching the dogs and petting them, they were not very
interested in all the "technical stuff". Anna and I learned a lot and really
enjoyed the whole trip.

I found out that "commercial" or grocery store dog food is basically junk.
It's just enough to keep a dog alive with very little nutritional value. The
guy recommended some good brands of dog food ( he uses one called Precise) .
After the doggy session, I headed straight to Petsmart to get some "good" dog
food. I had always bought Purina and though I was doing my dog a favor.. LOL.
No such luck, its basically fillers, additives and other no good stuff.
The knowledgeable ( kinda surprising, lol) salesclerk at Petsmart confirmed what
the trainer had told us about the lack of quality in grocery store dog foods,
and she recommended some better brands. I chucked out $40 for dog food (
puppy and adult), and a few tennis balls for the puppies to play with The
salesclerk also confirmed that Pert Plus shampoo can be used on small puppies to
kill fleas. I had read that on the Internet and I asked her about the validity
of it. So, we went off to Wal-mart to throw down another $30 for shampoo,
flea comb, and two bales of cedar bedding.

Back home we came to feed the puppies their new fancified dog food, spread
the cedar shavings in the kennel, and give them thier first bath. Yesterday
we wormed them and thier little tummies were not so bloated out today.

Then I came in to do some dog food research and found out some NASTY stuff
goes into a lot of dog food. UGHGHGHGH.. I found lots of articles that said
basically the same thing.. Here is a good one

<A HREF="http://siriusdog.com/dogfood.htm">http://siriusdog.com/dogfood.htm</A>

Anyway, that was our "dog day" Lots of fun and learning too! ( well, for
me at least)

Teresa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <grlynbl@...>

<<Anyway, that was our "dog day" Lots of fun and learning too! ( well,
for
me at least)>>



Teresa, Sounds like a wonderful day. That would have been a great trip for
Sierra and I too.

On a second note, Ivory liquid dishwashing liquid will also kill fleas and
is very gentle to use on the dogs. Just keep away from eyes. Suds them up
and let it sit for just a few minutes. Probably cheaper to use than Pert.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 6:24:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> On a second note, Ivory liquid dishwashing liquid will also kill fleas and
> is very gentle to use on the dogs. Just keep away from eyes. Suds them up
> and let it sit for just a few minutes. Probably cheaper to use than Pert.
>
> Mary B
>

Thanks for that tip. Here is another one I learned to help with suds in
eyes. Rub some mineral oil on the puppy's face, around his eyes That will
resist the suds. I bought the generic brand of Pert plus.. lol. Still, I got a
LOT of shampoo left, more than I will use on the puppies ( fingers crossed, I
hope we find home for them before they need that many baths)

You know, I bet lots of trainer and breeders would be open to doing a "field
trip" type thing. Maybe call around and ask if you could come visit. It
was great to see all that cool dog stuff in person and not on TV

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <grlynbl@...>

<< Rub some mineral oil on the puppy's face, around his eyes>>


Yeah I actually knew that already. I use to be a groomer and we did that on
every dog that came in for a bath. It was also handy when a flat faced dog
got a proptose eye. Like a pug or shih tzu, their eye will literally pop out
of the socket!!!


<<You know, I bet lots of trainer and breeders would be open to doing a
"field
trip" type thing. Maybe call around and ask if you could come visit. It
was great to see all that cool dog stuff in person and not on TV>>


Yeah I'm going to check in to that and see what I can come up with. Maybe by
the time I find something, summer will be over!!! Outside field trips now
would kill!!!

Mary B

Tracy

--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> From: <grlynbl@a...>
>
> << Rub some mineral oil on the puppy's face, around his eyes>>
>
>
> Yeah I actually knew that already. I use to be a groomer and we did
that on
> every dog that came in for a bath. It was also handy when a flat
faced dog
> got a proptose eye. Like a pug or shih tzu, their eye will
literally pop out
> of the socket!!!


I was a groomer for a while too. {very short period} Tho, we didn't
do the mineral oil trick.
The task I so remember to enjoying the best{sarcasm intended} was
squeezing the out the gland in their hind end. <yuck> The dogs seemed
to so enjoy it too.
Tracy

unolist

What I have been using on our dogs for shampoo is Murphy's oil soap,
actually the dollar store knockoff. It is vegetable based, and
soothes flea bitten skin and moisturizing. It doesn't smell too bad,
either. I read about it somewhere and have been happy with it ever
since. I, too, have been feeding my dogs Purina, contemplating
finding a better quality dogfood but not too expensive. I have even
considered giving them a "real food diet" that I read about. google
BARF- Bones and Real Food Diet. Does anyone know of a quality dogfood
available at a feedstore that is not as expensive as the pet store
kind?

Ang

Mary

From: "Tracy" <sablehs@...>

<<I was a groomer for a while too. {very short period} Tho, we didn't
do the mineral oil trick.
The task I so remember to enjoying the best{sarcasm intended} was
squeezing the out the gland in their hind end. <yuck> The dogs seemed
to so enjoy it too.>>


Wow, I'm glad I never had to do that!!! Of course I learned it when I went
to vet assistant school but luckily never used that knowledge! The groomers
that I know of down here don't do anal glands, the vets do. When I was
grooming, I actully like the ear powder and pulling out the ear hair from
the poodles. Just thought it was so neat. Use to just come right out!

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 7:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> Like a pug or shih tzu, their eye will literally pop out
> of the socket!!!
>

Ewwwwww, thats gross!!..

:-)
Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 10:35:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> The groomers
> that I know of down here don't do anal glands, the vets do.

I don't know if vets here do the anal gland thing, but I do know that
groomers do. Either, way, as long as I don't have to do it.. :-)

About the premium dog foods.. They do cost more.. But you feed less of them
than commerical brands, so in the long run, the cost comes out about the
same. Also, dogs who are on premium food have less bowel movements and its not as
stinky. I bought the store brand at Petsmart that is comprable to Eukenuba.
Look for meat meal ( chicken, lamb, whatever) as the first ingredient in
the food. Preserved with vitamin E, and no meat by products.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/2003 10:04:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
unolist@... writes:

> Does anyone know of a quality dogfood
> available at a feedstore that is not as expensive as the pet store
> kind?
>
> Ang
>

We have Brittany's and feed Purina also. We where feeding High end brands
until I talked to several breeders and found that as long as it is meat based we
where fine. Meat-based means that the foods number one ingredient is meat such
as lamb, beef, or chicken.
Meat is not the same as bone meal, chicken byproducts, etc.Yuck
Causes loose stools and not as good for the dog.

I too have considered making the meals for them as it does get expensive.

By the way the difference in price from Dog Chow 50 lb bag for $15.00 to Pro
Plan 40 lb bag 30.00 = 15.00 more a bag and less 10 pounds.

Laura D













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "unolist" <unolist@...>

<<Does anyone know of a quality dogfood
available at a feedstore that is not as expensive as the pet store
kind? >>


I guess what one thinks is good is a matter of opinion. I've never used
Purina. I have had luck with Nutro Max and now use Iams. I really like Iams
and I don't think it's too expensive. Probably less than Nutro and my local
grocery store also carries the Iams so I don't have to make a special trip.

Mary B

Mary

From: <grlynbl@...>

<<Like a pug or shih tzu, their eye will literally pop out
of the socket!!!

Ewwwwww, thats gross!!.. >>



You should have seen my girlfriends face when it happened. She was the owner
of the shop and had groomed for years. Never even heard of it. I remembered
from school but never had to deal with it. She just started screaming from
the wash room and I went in running and poor dog was soaking wet, scared
because Shawn was screaming but other wise fun except for an eye bulging
out. It was a little Shih Tzu. I dropped some more mineral oil on it's eye,
covered it with my hand and pushed it back in. The dog was fine and my
friend eventually was too. It can happed to buggy eyed dogs from a blow to
the head or any kind of trauma. In this case it was the jet of water when
the dog moved.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/2003 5:44:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:

> Then I came in to do some dog food research and found out some NASTY stuff
> goes into a lot of dog food. UGHGHGHGH.. I found lots of articles that said
>
> basically the same thing.. Here is a good one
>
> <A HREF="http://siriusdog.com/dogfood.htm">http://siriusdog.com/dogfood.htm</A>
>
> Anyway, that was our "dog day" Lots of fun and learning too! ( well, for
>
> me at least)
>
> Teresa

OH My gosh!
I am going to look into making my own dog food after reading this!


Laura D


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/2003 11:16:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> You should have seen my girlfriends face when it happened. She was the
> owner
> of the shop and had groomed for years. Never even heard of it. I remembered
> from school but never had to deal with it. She just started screaming from
> the wash room and I went in running and poor dog was soaking wet, scared
> because Shawn was screaming but other wise fun except for an eye bulging
> out. It was a little Shih Tzu. I dropped some more mineral oil on it's eye,
> covered it with my hand and pushed it back in. The dog was fine and my
> friend eventually was too. It can happed to buggy eyed dogs from a blow to
> the head or any kind of trauma. In this case it was the jet of water when
> the dog moved.
>

Wow...do you think this would work with a cow? LOL!! We have seen, more
than once, where a cow's eye has come out, and they are sent through the auction
and sold for next to nothing, just because of that. I've seen a full grown
cow go through and sell for 20.00. Or would it be too late by then? Any vets
on the list?

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <CelticFrau@...>

<<Wow...do you think this would work with a cow? LOL!! We have seen, more
than once, where a cow's eye has come out, and they are sent through the
auction
and sold for next to nothing, just because of that. I've seen a full grown
cow go through and sell for 20.00. Or would it be too late by then? Any
vets
on the list?>>



Since I know nothing about cows and schooling didn't really get heavy into
farm animals, I'm not sure. I would imagine that anyone or thing that has an
eye can get a proptosed one. I remember school saying it was more prevalent
in flat faced breeds which leads me to believe not exclusive to them. I do
know though that if not taken care of right away, the eye can be damaged and
most likely will have to come out. You mean cows are sold with the eye out?
That's not at all comfortable to the animal to leave it like that. Poor
things.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/2003 1:08:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> Since I know nothing about cows and schooling didn't really get heavy into
> farm animals, I'm not sure. I would imagine that anyone or thing that has an
> eye can get a proptosed one. I remember school saying it was more prevalent
> in flat faced breeds which leads me to believe not exclusive to them. I do
> know though that if not taken care of right away, the eye can be damaged and
> most likely will have to come out. You mean cows are sold with the eye out?
> That's not at all comfortable to the animal to leave it like that. Poor
> things.
>
I believe what usually happens in these cases was that somehow, with moving
the animals to the auction, all the ruckous that sometimes happens, bumping
around, etc, plus some beasts with horns, an eye can get knocked out. That's
what happened with the one that went so cheap.

A friend of ours bought a ewe for 1.00 once, who had a prolapsed
uterus...that bothered me...they should have just put her out of her misery or taken her
to the vet. She ended up going straight to the butcher for mutton.

The stockyards is NOT a pretty place...haven't been in a long time because I
hate the way the animals are treated, and hate to see how pitiful some of them
are.

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<< <<Does anyone know of a quality dogfood

available at a feedstore that is not as expensive as the pet store

kind? >> >>

I worked as a Vet Assistant many moons ago, and I heard her say many times
that if you can't get the expensive top quality kind, that anything in the
Purina line, is almost as good. But to totally avoid the very cheap kind, because
it is mostly fillers, in order for them to sell it so cheap. (Doesn't have much
it in that's good for them, AND because it's mostly fillers, they eat a lot
more, and therefore sh*# a lot more, and so it doesn't end up really ever
saving you money anyway.) Lara..............

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 11:15:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:

> OH My gosh!
> I am going to look into making my own dog food after reading this!
>
>
> Laura D
>

There is a "raw diet" for dogs that lots of trainers and breeders are using
now. I'm sure you could google and find out how to make it. But, it is
expensive and the trainer we talked to said that really, dogs do not need that high
quality of food unless you are showing or competing them. He did say that the
folks he knows that feed a raw diet LOVE it and swear by it. Their dogs are
much healthier and even "smarter"

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/03 8:25:27 AM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< But, it is
expensive and the trainer we talked to said that really, dogs do not need
that high
quality of food unless you are showing or competing them. >>

Ouch!

Should show people and competitor people get higher quality food than people
who are just our friends and family members? *

(I understand the statement, but it certainly puts MY dog in a lower class
situation. <g>)

We give a combo of cheapish dogfood and people-scrap, and if there's not
natural scrap for a day or two I'll make her something. Scrambled eggs, at least.
She loves cheese, so I always grate some extra for her. When I trim meat I
give her the scrap.

* [That did happen in the dining hall at our university, where the football
players had their own separate room with drapes, and reportedly had steak
anytime they wanted.]

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/03 11:22:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Should show people and competitor people get higher quality food than
> people
> who are just our friends and family members?

Hmm, well, I think that atheletes or folks who need more energy, stamina, etc
probably DO eat differently than your average folks. They may take vitamin
supplements also. I guess the difference between dogs and humans is that
humans have the choice to either eat "really healthy" like an athelete or not. (
well, barring circumstantial factors like poverty and availablity of foods)
But dogs have to eat whatever we give them or go find thier own food.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

My neighbor has two little Scottie terriers. She feeds them commercial
dog food but always adds lean roast chicken. The vet told her the
commercial feeds were low in protein. Her dogs are about 13 years old,
but very energetic and healthy - they seem much younger.



Robyn Coburn



<<We give a combo of cheapish dogfood and people-scrap, and if there's
not
natural scrap for a day or two I'll make her something. Scrambled eggs,
at least.>>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/2003 10:50:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:

> Does anyone know of a quality dogfood
> >available at a feedstore that is not as expensive as the pet store
> >kind?
> >
> >Ang
>
When we got a puppy some years ago the vet recommended pedigree puppy food.
We've used it for years, when they bred her, that's what we fed the puppies and
our adult dogs eat Pedigree small bites.

My son has a pit bull and he feeds her Pro Plan, something about you don't
feed them as much protein as a lab, or maybe the other way around.

But our dogs are really shiny coats and seem very active and healthy. Molly
is nine years old and Pedigree is all she's eaten. The dogs next door are fed
Purina. When we moved here they had four dogs, they are down to one now.
They've all had tumors and cancers and have died fairly young. I'm not
attributing this to their food, but that's just my observations, I'm sure there are
many other reasons that contribute to their early deaths, they were different
breeds than mine (except one) so that might have something to do with it.

glena who also cooks for her dogs in addition to their Pedigree


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> There is a "raw diet" for dogs that lots of trainers and breeders are
using
> now. I'm sure you could google and find out how to make it. But, it is
> expensive and the trainer we talked to said that really, dogs do not need
that high
> quality of food unless you are showing or competing them. He did say that
the
> folks he knows that feed a raw diet LOVE it and swear by it. Their dogs
are
> much healthier and even "smarter"

My dog has gotten mostly raw since he was a pup. He's very healthy at 5 and
has very good teeth. Even the vet commented on his teeth the last time we
had him in. He gets meaty bones for dinner. I buy pork bones and chicken
bones that have a reasonable amount of meat on them. It isn't all that
expensive. He gets blended up vegies for breakfast with yeast, ground flax
seed, and a bit of fat that's been drained off when we cook meat. I thicken
it with a bit of oatmeal because I don't have a food processor. I have to
blend the vegies with some water. The reason for raw is that cooking kills
the enzymes that help digestion.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Tracy

--- In [email protected], Tia Leschke <leschke@s...>
wrote:
> My dog has gotten mostly raw since he was a pup. He's very healthy
at 5 and
> has very good teeth. Even the vet commented on his teeth the last
time we
> had him in. He gets meaty bones for dinner. I buy pork bones and
chicken
> bones that have a reasonable amount of meat on them. It isn't all
that
> expensive. He gets blended up vegies for breakfast with yeast,
ground flax
> seed, and a bit of fat that's been drained off when we cook meat.
I thicken
> it with a bit of oatmeal because I don't have a food processor. I
have to
> blend the vegies with some water. The reason for raw is that
cooking kills
> the enzymes that help digestion.

Yes and they don't have to worry about the things in raw meat like
humans do.
I don't always do raw but do from tome to time and they also get
scraps and stuff along with dog food. {We live in the boonies and
tend to get strays}
I got a good book some may like "The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet
Care"
by C. J. Puotinen, Beverly Cappel-King
:-)